Optometry degree in the UK, practicing in Canada

[Uk'er]

I am a Canadian student applying to optometry in the UK. Has anyone received their degree for optometry in the UK and gone to Canada to practice? If so, what school did you receive your degree from, and how did you do on the Canadian Boards? Any help would be great!

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[IceNine]

Sorry, completely unrelated..but did you happen to graduate from UW? I know of a person who is applying to the UK and is in optician school as well.

 

[Uk'er]

Sorry, completely unrelated..but did you happen to graduate from UW? I know of a person who is applying to the UK and is in optician school as well.

I am graduating from my undergrad at UW this year, and since getting into UW for optometry is next to impossible, I am heading to the UK for a different experience. Did your friend graduate from Optometry at UW or did they just do their undergrad there?

 

[IceNine]

My friend just did his undergrad at UW. He is currently studying in opticians college, and is applying to the UK for optometry school. Oh and I agree with you completely, getting into UW is like an urban myth! I tried for two years straight, then gave up and applied to the states. Their application process is soo much easier and less stressful too.

 

[Uk'er]

My friend just did his undergrad at UW. He is currently studying in opticians college, and is applying to the UK for optometry school. Oh and I agree with you completely, getting into UW is like an urban myth! I tried for two years straight, then gave up and applied to the states. Their application process is soo much easier and less stressful too.

At least I know I am not the only one in that boat! It is ridiculous that Waterloo lets in so few people considering the number of us that will end up handing an insane amount of money to another country. I didn't try to apply to the states because I got this UK idea in my head, but it sounds like it would have been a good option to. Are you in school in the states for optometry now? My fingers are crossed for the UK. Let me know if your friend gets in.

 

[ML1983]

At least I know I am not the only one in that boat! It is ridiculous that Waterloo lets in so few people considering the number of us that will end up handing an insane amount of money to another country. I didn't try to apply to the states because I got this UK idea in my head, but it sounds like it would have been a good option to. Are you in school in the states for optometry now? My fingers are crossed for the UK. Let me know if your friend gets in.

Why don't you apply to the States? I'm a UW student right now, and i'll be heading to PCO this Fall. Yea i applied to UW, but what do i think my chances are? Not high. Why the UK? I heard it's very very very difficult for you to come back and practice in Canada or the US for that matter, because of different techniques? Is that true?

 

[Uk'er]

Why don't you apply to the States? I'm a UW student right now, and i'll be heading to PCO this Fall. Yea i applied to UW, but what do i think my chances are? Not high. Why the UK? I heard it's very very very difficult for you to come back and practice in Canada or the US for that matter, because of different techniques? Is that true?

Well it will end up being about the same amount for me to go to the UK as it would be for me to go to the states and I think it'll be a pretty good experience. My sister is going to the UK come September for veterinary. I have spoken with UW to find out what would be required of me when I come back to Canada in order to practice, and basically I would have to go through the bridging program they've made for internationally trained students, and then successfully write the CSAO's. Since the optometry program is only 3 years in the England and Ireland, I would end up spending the same amount of time in school even if I had to complete the 1 year bridging program versus the 1 month.

 

[IceNine]

I applied to ICO, and was accepted in December. So I'll be starting this August.
I think you should apply to both the states and the UK.
The UK would definitely be an amazing experience, but the odds might be higher against you coming back to practice in Canada then it would from the States.
Then again..who knows? *shakes her fist at UW* ~~You screwed us all!!!
All the best!

 

[Uk'er]

I applied to ICO, and was accepted in December. So I'll be starting this August.
I think you should apply to both the states and the UK.
The UK would definitely be an amazing experience, but the odds might be higher against you coming back to practice in Canada then it would from the States.
Then again..who knows? *shakes her fist at UW* ~~You screwed us all!!!
All the best!

Ha, ha, ha, ha....if only Waterloo realized how many students hated them for sending them anywhere but to the school in their country! I haven't written the OAT for this year, and I also think I missed the application deadline for the States (I could be wrong though?), so it'll either be the UK next year or back to Waterloo to finish my degree. Congrats on getting into ICO though. That's great!

 

[IceNine]

A lot of the optometry schools in the states have open enrollment. So you can apply anytime between Aug-April, and they run interviews all the way through. And if your Canadian, you've pretty much got it set. So long as your OAT is at 300, and your marks are around ~75% you will probably get accepted! No worries! Trust me on this one....!

But I can tell your dead set on going to the UK, but your marks shouldn't be a problem it'll probably be the same as the states.

 

[Looman]

I am currently a Waterloo optometry student (1st year) and I have to agree the application process is a bit of a lottery, but what professional program in canada isn't? (anyone here whose applied to an Ontario med school knows what I mean) Anyways, there are currently some international optometrists in our school going through the bridging program, essentially I believe its just showing that you can do a few of the major techniques. I am not sure how long it is, but I guess that will depend on what country you're coming from, for the UK I can't imagine it being that long. Uk and Canadian optometry are pretty similar, as a matter of fact most of the profs in waterloo are from the UK so its almost like going to a UK school in Canada lol. Sorry, I'm getting a bit off track, bottom line: US = graduate after 4 years write your canadian board. UK = graduate then go through the bridging program, write your canadian boards.

 

[Uk'er]

I am currently a Waterloo optometry student (1st year) and I have to agree the application process is a bit of a lottery, but what professional program in canada isn't? (anyone here whose applied to an Ontario med school knows what I mean) Anyways, there are currently some international optometrists in our school going through the bridging program, essentially I believe its just showing that you can do a few of the major techniques. I am not sure how long it is, but I guess that will depend on what country you're coming from, for the UK I can't imagine it being that long. Uk and Canadian optometry are pretty similar, as a matter of fact most of the profs in waterloo are from the UK so its almost like going to a UK school in Canada lol. Sorry, I'm getting a bit off track, bottom line: US = graduate after 4 years write your canadian board. UK = graduate then go through the bridging program, write your canadian boards.

Hey, thanks a lot for that info. I've had one heck of a time trying to find out even information on the bridging program itself, making my decision quite difficult. However, I finally heard back from Waterloo about the bridging program and essentially it is as you said. Even though it's a bachelor of science program in Optometry in the UK, once you successfully pass the Canadian boards, you are able to practice with the title of Doctor. I was a little worried about that. I mean really, who is going to go to an optometrist that doesn't that title "Dr" in front of their name? I'm going to go out on a limb and say no one! Anyway, now it sounds like I'll be off in the UK come September if all goes well. Thanks again for your help!

 

[xmattODx]

Hey, thanks a lot for that info. I've had one heck of a time trying to find out even information on the bridging program itself, making my decision quite difficult. However, I finally heard back from Waterloo about the bridging program and essentially it is as you said. Even though it's a bachelor of science program in Optometry in the UK, once you successfully pass the Canadian boards, you are able to practice with the title of Doctor. I was a little worried about that. I mean really, who is going to go to an optometrist that doesn't that title "Dr" in front of their name? I'm going to go out on a limb and say no one! Anyway, now it sounds like I'll be off in the UK come September if all goes well. Thanks again for your help!

You should really look at the passage rate for foreign trained ODs for the CSAO. It is dismal. US students do poorly enough but those trained outside of North America... just check it out.

 

[Uk'er]

You should really look at the passage rate for foreign trained ODs for the CSAO. It is dismal. US students do poorly enough but those trained outside of North America... just check it out.

Yeah, I've already looked at them. They haven't posted any results since the bridging program at Waterloo has been implemented though. As well, if you look at the countries in which some of the foreign students came from, it didn't really surprise me that many didn't do too well. Luckily, the bridging program is supposed to make it so all internationally trained students have relatively the same skills as those trained at Waterloo. Obviously there will be some differences, but it is a comprehensive program that attempts to get all on the same page. Thanks for the heads up though.

 

[farsighted]

I am planning on attending optometry school in the UK this september as well. So far I have been accepted into Cardiff. I am also looking to find out more information about the bridging program.

http://www.optometry.uwaterloo.ca/iobp/

 

[Uk'er]

I am planning on attending optometry school in the UK this september as well. So far I have been accepted into Cardiff. I am also looking to find out more information about the bridging program.

http://www.optometry.uwaterloo.ca/iobp/

Hey, it is always so nice to hear there are others out there applying too! Congrats on getting into Cardiff! When did you apply to the schools in the UK through UCAS? I was also wondering if you sent in your high school and university transcript or just your high school? A friend of mine was accepted into Aston solely sending her high school. Which other schools did you apply to? Talk about bombarding you with questions!

 

[farsighted]

Hey, it is always so nice to hear there are others out there applying too! Congrats on getting into Cardiff! When did you apply to the schools in the UK through UCAS? I was also wondering if you sent in your high school and university transcript or just your high school? A friend of mine was accepted into Aston solely sending her high school. Which other schools did you apply to? Talk about bombarding you with questions!

sorry for the late reply I sent you a pm.

 

[Kristene9]

What are the practice restrictions in Canada compared to the US? I was in BC for spring break and really enjoyed it.

Just wondering

 

[jehu]

That depends on which province you are in, right now Alberta is the only province in which OD's can prescribe therapeutics. Ontario is in the process. Also, in Alberta OD's can co-manage glaucoma patients with an OMD.
Alberta right now is the best place to practice as an OD. The other provinces are catching up and hopefully in the near future we are in sync with the US.

What are the practice restrictions in Canada compared to the US? I was in BC for spring break and really enjoyed it.

Just wondering

 

[guelphgrad]

I just stumbled across this site tonight, I'm glad to hear that there are other people out there who are considering going to the UK for optometry! I've currently been accepted to Manchester, Aston, and City, so now I'm just trying to weigh all my options, has anyone else been accepted or applied to any of these schools, or better yet do you know anyone who currently goes to either of them? I'm finding the hardest part about it is trying to figure out which school to go to when I am pretty unfamiliar with all of them.

I also looked into the bridging program and found out basically the same thing that has been said already. I also spoke with a woman there who said that out of all of the UK students they have evaluated so far they were all deemed to be equivalent if that helps at all....

 

[guelphgrad]

Hey, it is always so nice to hear there are others out there applying too! Congrats on getting into Cardiff! When did you apply to the schools in the UK through UCAS? I was also wondering if you sent in your high school and university transcript or just your high school? A friend of mine was accepted into Aston solely sending her high school. Which other schools did you apply to? Talk about bombarding you with questions!

Hey sorry to jump in but I thought I would reply to this. I applied through UCAS to 6 schools for optometry, and for all of them I sent in both transcripts since that's what they recommended, but I think it depends on the school since I know that one of them had specific requirements for OAT scores etc.

 

[heatfenn]

Hi there...I'm thinking about going to Australia for optometry and I will possibly be getting advanced standing in their program, due to my clinical and prior course experience (going into year 2 or 3 of the 5 year program). I've just talked to Waterloo about their IOBP and they told me that if I'm given advanced standing and pushed into a higher level, then I may not have enough credit hours to do their program. Apparently they had to turn away one guy because of this. Does anyone know how many course hours are needed (she didn't remember and I can't find it on the web). She also told me that out of all the people in the IOBP, only one student hasn't passed the Boards.

 

[Turosk]

From my understanding of optometry, the rankings are like this; for quality of education;

1. USA
2. Canada / Australia / New Zealand
3. UK ( still somewhat premative... most of them still do trial frame refractions i heard, i dont think they teach some advanced techniques either... im not totally up-to-date though)

thats just the general idea that im forming from waht i hear from reliable post-grad optoms from the uk.

 

[Aly]

Hi everyone

I'm actually going to the UK in September as well, it was great to see there are so many people, I've decided to go to Cardiff, since I think as far as my research goes its the best one there...but I was wondering if anyone else is thinking or has decided to go there??? I was also worried about the whole degree thing between what they give there and what we would get either in Canada or the States....

anyone have any insight?

 

[POJO]

Hi everyone

I'm actually going to the UK in September as well, it was great to see there are so many people, I've decided to go to Cardiff, since I think as far as my research goes its the best one there...but I was wondering if anyone else is thinking or has decided to go there??? I was also worried about the whole degree thing between what they give there and what we would get either in Canada or the States....

anyone have any insight?

Dear Aly,

Are you planning to return to the US to practice or go to the US to practice? If so, you might not be able to sit for any examinations. You may get some kind of advanced standing but you would have to do at least 2 if not 3 years more of education. There are some state registration laws that mandate certain hours for particular subjects which you may or not be able to convert from your prior education. Just a thought.

 

[Turosk]

Hi everyone

I'm actually going to the UK in September as well, it was great to see there are so many people, I've decided to go to Cardiff, since I think as far as my research goes its the best one there...but I was wondering if anyone else is thinking or has decided to go there??? I was also worried about the whole degree thing between what they give there and what we would get either in Canada or the States....

anyone have any insight?

yea, its a weird system. i dont think the degree they give out in the UK is qualified for registation in the states, or canada. I think there might be a course/exam for non-US educated optometrists who want to get registration in the states.

 

[spyder45]

Hey, I know this post is 4 years old, but I was actually planning to apply for optometry to the UK as well and was wondering if anyone was able to come back successfully to Canada and work as an optometrist? I wanna apply but I am just not sure if I will be able to come back to Canada or not. Does anyone know where I can find more information about the Bridging program that I assume is offered at Waterloo?

Thanks!

 

[honestOD]

IMO if your going to spend 3-4 years abroad spending loads on schooling, then go into a profession that we are lacking in canada....ie: GP's, dentists, any specialist, or even Law (but only law if your heartless...kidding), optometry is OK but i've seen new OD's struggling to find work and bridging program OD's that i've met are stuck in a tiny Optical being asked to make up Rx's for children so their insurance coverage can be used for another family member....it's not looking to good....i can see it getting bad in another 5-6 years....bottom line: plenty of OD's in canada....unless it's a rural area.

 

[physicslover]

so do bridging program OD's have a disadvantage over US/Canadian trained optometrists? I was under the impression that once we pass the boards, everyone is at the same qualification..

 

[socal2014]

IMO if your going to spend 3-4 years abroad spending loads on schooling, then go into a profession that we are lacking in canada....ie: GP's, dentists, any specialist, or even Law (but only law if your heartless...kidding), optometry is OK but i've seen new OD's struggling to find work and bridging program OD's that i've met are stuck in a tiny Optical being asked to make up Rx's for children so their insurance coverage can be used for another family member....it's not looking to good....i can see it getting bad in another 5-6 years....bottom line: plenty of OD's in canada....unless it's a rural area.

Working in an optical isn't that bad really. You get to keep 100% of your fees or something close to that. The only issue is the optician telling the OD what to do, and frankly IOBP grads are just too desperate for work that they will listen to the optician.

I think ethical/law classes need to be taught in the IOBP program.

 

[physicslover]

So is it really hard to get work as an IOBP grad? Personally, I have not encountered any optometrists that have been to the UK and are working now in private practice. I don't want to go the UK and spent my time and money, if I this is the case. I would much rather go the US, retake some of my courses and be guaranteed a good job.

 

[MrPolarZero]

As far as I know, the optometry program in Canada is a bit similar to that of the UK. So you will definitely have a good chance of passing the Canadian boards.

 

[Optogal]

IMO if your going to spend 3-4 years abroad spending loads on schooling, then go into a profession that we are lacking in canada....ie: GP's, dentists, any specialist, or even Law (but only law if your heartless...kidding), optometry is OK but i've seen new OD's struggling to find work and bridging program OD's that i've met are stuck in a tiny Optical being asked to make up Rx's for children so their insurance coverage can be used for another family member....it's not looking to good....i can see it getting bad in another 5-6 years....bottom line: plenty of OD's in canada....unless it's a rural area.

Umm... ODs in private practice do this too.

 

[honestOD]

Umm... ODs in private practice do this too.

Well i don't, and i'm in private practice....it's a shame if anyone is telling an OD what Rx to give, especially if it's for insurance fraud....our profession is going downhill fast....that's what happens when people can't find decent work.....do any of you know anyone give fake scripts so that someone else can claim the insurance?

 

[Optogal]

There's a thread over on optiboard discussing this topic.
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/sho...ing-Optometry-in-UK-New-UK-student-Visa-Rules

The post reads:

It appears that current 1st and 2nd year international student studying optometry in UK may have to quit the program due the new student visa changes affecting pre reg employment...

Basically student will need to find pre reg period job that pays minimum of £20k. And need to find employer sponsor who is willing to go through lots of bureaucracy and paperwork.

New visa rules make no special provisions for the 1st and 2nd year students to be able work under old visa rules. And IOBP bridging at waterloo requires internationally educated optometrists to be fully licenced and registered in the other country before they can apply to practice In Canada.

The above are likely not to happen and means one can graduate but not be able register.

I would like hear from others on this issue.

Thanks.

Does anyone know anything about this? What's going on?

 

[imemily]

Maybe I am comprehending this wrong, but doesn't that change nothing?

International ODs would still be able to practice if they get someone to sponsor them, no?

 

[Bioflare]

Maybe I am comprehending this wrong, but doesn't that change nothing?

International ODs would still be able to practice if they get someone to sponsor them, no?

Correct, but this is at least better for Canada, as some areas where these internationally trained optoms are coming from are not even up to Canadian standards, let alone the US standards. Not bashing UK, but its a bachelors program for Optom. I'd trust Optoms coming from India more than the UK as the competition and the training in their universities is much more stringent.

 

[imemily]

Correct, but this is at least better for Canada, as some areas where these internationally trained optoms are coming from are not even up to Canadian standards, let alone the US standards. Not bashing UK, but its a bachelors program for Optom. I'd trust Optoms coming from India more than the UK as the competition and the training in their universities is much more stringent.

What the heck? Bachelor Degrees? How is that even allowed, I mean Canada doesn't Canada have associations that represent Optometrists?

I am confused.

 

[physicslover]

their medical degrees in the UK are also bachelors degrees, its a diff system there.

 

[physicslover]

if this is the case, why are they still recruiting international students? are they not going to be able to get a pre-reg position? im so confused

 

[Optogal]

Optometry in the UK is 3 years of classroom studies and a year of "pre-registration" supervised work/internship experience.

http://www.optical.org/en/our_work/...K_route_to_registration_as_an_optometrist.cfm

A sample job description for this is found here.

http://www.moorfields.nhs.uk/Workforus/Trainingandcareeropportunities/Optometry
Pre-registration optometrists
This post is designed for applicants who have completed a university degree in optometry and are in training to qualify as optometrists. Applicants would usually apply in the second year of their undergraduate course. All pre-registration optometrists practising in the UK need to be registered with the profession's regulatory body, the General Optical Council.
The department employs five pre-registration optometrists each year for a period of one year. Interviews are held in the summer at the end of the second year. Post-holders are expected to complete the appropriate course and the professional qualifying examinations organised by the College of Optometrists.
More information about pre-registration posts in hospitals around the country is available from JCL Optics, which runs the centralised hospital application scheme for pre-registration entry.

Optometry students don't get their license until after this supervised work year is completed. What the optiboard post is saying is that apparently UK laws allowing for Canadians to study in the UK (under their student visa) doesn't cover their internship year. That requires a work Visa which requires a formal process, one that probably most small businesses would be unlikely to do especially for a Canadian who has no plans on staying in the UK. Without their year of pre-reg, they can't get a license in the UK. Under the current regs in Ontario, it means they can't come back by the IOBP either. So in other words, they can't graduate and thus can't get a license anywhere.

 

[physicslover]

ok wow. I was considering going to the UK but even had my doubt before this. I dont think its fair to those students already there though. Did they just waste time/money?

 

[Optogal]

ok wow. I was considering going to the UK but even had my doubt before this. I dont think its fair to those students already there though. Did they just waste time/money?

I'll say that if I were in their shoes, I'd be panicked now, if indeed this is what is going on. It literally means they are in the UK, studying optometry, but will never graduate and never find a job in optometry. (unless they return and do an OD)

But not fair? For those who intend to stay in the UK, I imagine they should be alright cause they are probably more likely to find a placement. But for those who never intended to stay in the first place, they did have the option of studying in Canada, or going to the US and studying there. Instead, they took a chance and went to the UK. Life insurance doesn't cover making the wrong educational plans. And no one said life was fair. I don't own a Rothschild castle.

 

[physicslover]

so are you sure that is actually whats going to happen to all those students? thats an awful lot of unhappy students.

 

[Optogal]

I don't know for sure. But it's what I think given what I know.

I believe:
- UK optom is 3 + 1 year of prereg (which seems to be confirmed by the links)
- the post says optom students can't do prereg under their student visas. I take this to mean they need work visas.
- work visas aren't the easiest thing to get.
- the students therefore can't get the internship they need to acquire registration with the college, and therefore a license.

I believe these points are "true".

 

[physicslover]

i wonder what the schools are going to do about this... if they still want to acquire an international student base, they need to have some type of plan

 

[Optogal]

their medical degrees in the UK are also bachelors degrees, its a diff system there.

Well true and not true.

It's true their medical degrees are bachelor degrees, but they are also 7 years in duration (comparable to the US).

Optometry there is 3 years plus 1 year prereg internship.

 

[namams]

Well true and not true.

It's true their medical degrees are bachelor degrees, but they are also 7 years in duration (comparable to the US).

Optometry there is 3 years plus 1 year prereg internship.

UK medical and dental degrees are five year bachelor degrees.

 

[Bioflare]

What the heck? Bachelor Degrees? How is that even allowed, I mean Canada doesn't Canada have associations that represent Optometrists?

I am confused.

Yes they do, and the Ontario Association of Optometrists has shown their dislike for the IOBP program, as they are churning out unqualified Optoms. This is not to say that internationally trained optoms are bad, but the graduates of the 8 week program are only scoring 40% on the Canadian Boards, which is ridiculous. Although I know a few optoms that came to practice through the IOBP program, but they are overqualified and worked in hospitals along side ophthalmologists for many years. But for now it just seems the IOBP program is a money grab from Waterloo because they are failing at the point of the program, and that is to bring these applicants up to Canadian standards.

 

[imemily]

Yes they do, and the Ontario Association of Optometrists has shown their dislike for the IOBP program, as they are churning out unqualified Optoms. This is not to say that internationally trained optoms are bad, but the graduates of the 8 week program are only scoring 40% on the Canadian Boards, which is ridiculous. Although I know a few optoms that came to practice through the IOBP program, but they are overqualified and worked in hospitals along side ophthalmologists for many years. But for now it just seems the IOBP program is a money grab from Waterloo because they are failing at the point of the program, and that is to bring these applicants up to Canadian standards.

I see, I googled IOBP and was directed to waterloos site.

If the IOBP is such a big issue, why is it not closed yet? I think there is some sorta conflict of interest (if thats what they call it) going on, because, the faculty for the IOBP program is part of the ontario association, right? They could be saying, oh yeah its bad, but they have the power, since they are part of an association, to keep the program running.

I wouldn't know for sure though, just some speculation.