Oral Surgery Question

[OMS23]

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Hello everyone, IM new to this forum and had a question concerning oral surgery.

IM interested in applying to a 4 year oral surgery program. Is the 4 year program less competitive than the 6 year MD program?

Is a hospital based residency that is non university based less competitive than one that is affiliated with a university?

I appreciate any replys thanks!

 

[Yah-E]

Both types of residencies are competitive, but will weigh different factors differently. A 6-year OMS residency will look at your undergraduate transcript(s) and the NBDE Part 1 scores more heavily while a 4-year residency may not care so much on those factors. They both place a heavy emphasis on Class ranking and cumulative dental GPA.

Hospital and school-affliated OMS residencies are both competitive. While school-affliated residencies are more known and popular in general, but hospital OMS residencies offer less number of spots/seats. For example, a hospital OMS residency may only accept one resident per application cycle while a school-affliated OMS residency may accept 2 or 3 per year.

Bottom line, whether it's a 4 or 6 year residency OR hospital or school-affliated OMS residency, they're all just as competitive as one another. Obviously some are more than others, but usually it's the tradition, history and the name of the school/hospital (ie. Mayo, Harvard, UCLA, etc.)

You, as an applicant, can't say that a 4-year, hospital based OMS residency is less competitive than a 6-year, school-affliated OMS residency! Every and each OMS residency is a bit different, some have more training in one aspect of OMS than others and some have more recognition/name than others.

I would say big name residencies are more competitive than less popular/unheard of residencies, but competitiveness is not based on the length of the training or either you're at a hospital or school-affliated OMS residency.

 

[OMS23]

Thanks for your extensive reply!

Are the less popular programs known to give you the same training than the more popular programs like UCLA?

Do you take exams while in the 4 year program on a monthly basis? yearly basis?

What is a typical week like in the life of an oral surgery resident?

What do the less popular hospital based programs look at more?

Thanks

 

[Yah-E]

Less popular OMS residencies train their residents under the exact same ADA accreditation requirements as popular OMS residencies.

As far as exams goes, I have no idea. Every residency is different. You seem like you have a lot of questions about OMS residencies. Perhaps you should contact the OMS residencies that you have interests in or talk with the OMS department personal at your dental school for further info.

As a Predoc dental student, my knowledge on actual OMS residency experience is very limited. Call and seek answers, my friend.

 

[MarkFitzsimmons]

I've always been curious. . .

With specialties like OMS, Ortho, and Endo that are so diffucult to get into. Would an applicant apply to most of, if not all of the programs in the country to give them self the best odds of matriculation. Or would adcoms look at that as an act of desperation?

 

[Mo007]

What kind of Salary or Income will OMS resident earn during the program, and wether its a constant figure through-out the 4 years?

 

[MarkFitzsimmons]

Check the websites of the programs for exact numbers. It's usually around 40k a year though. Generally it increases through the program by around 1k/year.

M

 

[River13]

I have to disagree with what Yah-e posted earlier about the competitiveness of 4 vs 6 yr OMS programs if we're speaking about them generally. There will always be a handfull of 4 year programs that are just as competitive as the most competitive 6 year programs...

but having said that, its interesting to note these results published in an article by Daniel Laskin in the Journal of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, Volume 61, Number 2 (February 2003)...these results were taken off a recent survey of OMS residents nationwide:

Median 4yr OMS resident class rank in dental school: 15.3
Median 6yr OMS resident class rank in dental school: 7.4

Median 4yr OMS resident Part I Dental Board score: 90.3
Median 6yr OMS resident Part I Dental Board score: 93.3

It would seem from this survey that 6 yr programs are more competitve than 4 yr programs speaking GENERALLY...

I would also add that after externing at several OMS programs and interviewing at many, programs vary EXTENSIVELY on the number and variety of procedures included in training, though they do all meet minimum requirements for accredidation.

 

[ItsGavinC]

We just received a new professor for our Head & Neck course, and he's a lot of fun to speak with.

He's a DDS OMS, and he also has his MD. Interestingly enough, he practice is mostly limited to facelifts.

 

[bsso2005]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
We just received a new professor for our Head & Neck course, and he's a lot of fun to speak with.

He's a DDS OMS, and he also has his MD. Interestingly enough, he practice is mostly limited to facelifts.

That is interesting because we have an attending who is known to embellish the types of procedures he performs. His colleagues are all familiar with the type of rhetoric he spews in regards to his practice. In short, it is not uncommon for oral surgeons to profess that they perform more cosmetic procedures than they actually do. In my experience, I have yet to know of an oral surgeon whose practice is limited solely to facelifts. I have heard of senior OMS specialists whose practice incorporates many of these procedures. However, these were older surgeons who have long since retired. They managed to create a niche performing face lifts through networking with plastic surgeons who referred simple cases to them. And this occurred in the 1970's when the supply of plastic surgeons was low. Many of these surgeons didn't mind referring face lifts and other minor procedures due to the bulk of complicated and more lucrative procedures they were inundated with back then. However, that is not the case today as the supply of surgeons has escalated. The fight for even minor procedures like face lifts is not something they can casually refer like they did 25 years ago. Nonetheless, if your dream is to perform face lifts and other forms of cosmetic surgery, I would encourage you to move to a town of 30K or less. That might be the only place where you won't have to compete with plastic surgeons for routine cosmetic procedures.

 

[Yah-E]

River:

I, too, read that article in the JOMS, but keep in mind that those numbers you gave are only averages. In both type of residencies (4 and 6 years), you have both higher NBDE Part 1 scores and class rankings as well as lower NBDE Part 1 scores and class rankings. The minimal NBDE Part 1 score of those OMS residents matched into a 4-year and a 6-year residencies are 80 and 84 respectively.

There was this applicant matched into a 4-year OMS residency who ranked #90 in his class ranking.....how crazy is that?

I guess, if you want to strictly go by numbers, according to the matched OMS residents that had replied to the survey, then the 6-year residencies has a bit higher admission statistics. Do keep in mind though, only 208 out of 675 residents replied to the survey! The results could simply swing to the 4-year residency favor if another 40 matched OMS residents had replied to the survey.

I still believe that if we want to speak in "general", both type of OMS residencies are competitive. But hey, you probably would know more than I do, because you've gone through the interviewing and application process.

Wish you the BEST of luck in matching into your 1st choice in couple more weeks!

Andy

 

[kent100s78]

I have a question. Is there a diffrence if you get your MD or not when doing an OMS residency. Are there diffrent benefits of getting a MD or is it just prestige.Or in other words are MD's considered to be better at OMS, or it's all the same.

Do OMS without a MD do the same procedures compared to one that has his MD. Do they still get hospital privlages that some have with an MD.

Forgive my question, I assume this was brought up before. But i'm not familiar with OMS and would like to know the diffrence.If I in the future would do an OMS or someone else but doesn't want the MD will I or someone else loose respect or benefits of an MD.
Thank you

 

[River13]

Without question both types of residencies are competitive. Thanks, Yah, for the well wishes.

 

[gryffindor]

Originally posted by kent100s78
Do OMS without a MD do the same procedures compared to one that has his MD. Do they still get hospital privlages that some have with an MD.

I believe there is a difference here in New York state regarding the scope of practice of an oral surgeon with an MD and one without an MD. The MD oral surgeon has the broader scope of practice, however, I am not sure what that entails.

 

[le fort guy]

Originally posted by kent100s78
I have a question. Is there a diffrence if you get your MD or not when doing an OMS residency. Are there diffrent benefits of getting a MD or is it just prestige.Or in other words are MD's considered to be better at OMS, or it's all the same.

Do OMS without a MD do the same procedures compared to one that has his MD. Do they still get hospital privlages that some have with an MD.

Forgive my question, I assume this was brought up before. But i'm not familiar with OMS and would like to know the diffrence.If I in the future would do an OMS or someone else but doesn't want the MD will I or someone else loose respect or benefits of an MD.
Thank you

Big difference from what I have seen through the practice that I assist at. One of the Oral surgeons (DDS) can do anything while pertaining to inside the mouth (orthognathic cases, wisdom teeth, frenectomies, pathology cases, etc). The other Oral Surgeon (DDS/MD) was actually an Oral and Maxillofacial and does everything pertaining to the mouth but also the face and cosmetics (blephs, rhino's, lasor resurfacing, platysma plasties, face lifts, botox, alloderm etc).


In my opinion the neatest of the cosmetic cases is the brow lift (the non endoscopic method) or possibly the placement of Porex implants (facial implants).

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by bsso2005
That is interesting because we have an attending who is known to embellish the types of procedures he performs. In my experience, I have yet to know of an oral surgeon whose practice is limited solely to facelifts.

I understand what you are saying. This guy, however, IS board certified in plastics. He's one of those rare cases that we've all been discussing where he earned the MD, and then decided to pursue a different surgical route other than OMS.

I myself have no interest in OMS.

 

[toofache32]

Maybe I'll add my 2 cents to this. I'm an OMS resident in a 6-year program in Texas. I interviewed at 4- and 6-year programs and thought that the 4-years seemed a little more competitive. Which makes sense to me, because you get the same training in less time, and you're board-certified either way.

Le Fort Guy: An "oral surgeon" is the same as an "oral and maxillofacial surgeon." We usually just call ourselves by the shorter name because most people don't know what "maxillofacial" means. Hell, my wife still doesn't. Any oral surgeon can cut outside the mouth, MD or not. That's how we drain tooth abscesses that form in the neck. The procedures you perform are based on your training, not your degree. For example, there are several great 4-year programs that do a ton of cosmetics (Virginia) while other 6-year programs that don't do much more than pull teeth (Mayo). I named these 2 places because I did externships there and have first-hand knowledge.

Your scope of practice is determined by the type of procedures you did during residency, not by your degree or state laws. However, turf battles exist with or without an MD. The Plastics guys always want to get into a pissing match when OMS guys move to town and start to straighten noses.

We do a ton of cosmetics at our program, but most of the guys graduate and end up doing wisdom teeth because that's where the money is.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by toofache32
I named these 2 places because I did externships there and have first-hand knowledge.

Which of those two externships did you enjoy more, and what were some of the pros and cons to each?