Oral Surgery to ENT

[MAXILLOFACIAL2B]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I was wondering if anyone knows about the process of pursuing an ENT residency after oral surgery. How does this work? How long does it usually take?

 

[EuroOMFS]

I was wondering if anyone knows about the process of pursuing an ENT residency after oral surgery. How does this work? How long does it usually take?

WHY would anyone want to do that?😱

 

[toofache32]

I also wonder why.

ENT is 5 years (1 general surg + 4 ENT). A guy finished my program about 3 years and got a ENT residency to let him just do the last 4 years since he already did general surgery in OMFS residency. But not all ENT programs can do this, because the programs "promise" a certain number of interns to the general surgery dept every year, and this would throw a wrench into the works. There are only about 13 people in the US who are double-boarded in ENT/OMFS.

 

[IcedOMFS]

I also wonder why.

ENT is 5 years (1 general surg + 4 ENT). A guy finished my program about 3 years and got a ENT residency to let him just do the last 4 years since he already did general surgery in OMFS residency. But not all ENT programs can do this, because the programs "promise" a certain number of interns to the general surgery dept every year, and this would throw a wrench into the works. There are only about 13 people in the US who are double-boarded in ENT/OMFS.

Being dual certified is one thing... Certainly much of the current forays of OMFS into oncology and microvascular reconstruction have been borne of having dual certified people who identify with OMFS and are willing to mentor non dual-certified people in the crossover areas... Currently, though, I think one would be better off to do extra years of fellowship training and be a super bad-assed OMF Surgeon... An extra 4-5 years just to be a basic OMFS and a basic ENT is diminishing gain for more work... Face it, who cares about the voice, sinus, and inner ear aspects of ENT... You want free flaps, neck dissections, cosmetics, etc... You'd get better exposure to all of it from 3 years of fellowships than 5 years of ENT residency

 

[MAXILLOFACIAL2B]

Thanks for the information. I was just curious about this. I have ZERO interest in ENT, just curious. I agree with you IcedOMFS that OMFS has benefited greatly for dual boarded surgeons whether it be in ENT or plastics. I know that's not the path for me, I also realize that when these guys trained the fellowships that exist today were not an option.

 

[scandalouslj]

Well here is the flip side of the question for you guys. IN dental school of course all of us thought the oral surgeons were bad*sses and do all these awsome surgeries. Well I am currently rotating in my GPR on ENT for 2 weeks, and it seems like they are doing pretty much every surgery an oral surgeon does, except for removing wisdom teeth. So my question is why become an oral surgeon when you can do ENT in the same amount of time, do pretty much the same surgeries plus a million more? Whenever there is a facial fracture of any kind including the mandible the ENT's take it here. I have seen more oral pathology come into the ENT's office for treatment from other md's, even dentists! in 2 weeks than I have seen come in a dentists office in a whole year!

 

[gary_ruska]

Well here is the flip side of the question for you guys. IN dental school of course all of us thought the oral surgeons were bad*sses and do all these awsome surgeries. Well I am currently rotating in my GPR on ENT for 2 weeks, and it seems like they are doing pretty much every surgery an oral surgeon does, except for removing wisdom teeth. So my question is why become an oral surgeon when you can do ENT in the same amount of time, do pretty much the same surgeries plus a million more? Whenever there is a facial fracture of any kind including the mandible the ENT's take it here. I have seen more oral pathology come into the ENT's office for treatment from other md's, even dentists! in 2 weeks than I have seen come in a dentists office in a whole year!

Gary "Resurfacing from deep in the literal bowels" Ruska here,

This may be true where you're located, but, in general, the specialties are drastically different. GR would be very, very surprised if the ENTs in your location are doing TMJ reconstruction, dental implant placement or orthognathic surgery. Taking mandibles and facial trauma is nothing new for ENTs...Doing it well, on the other hand...j/k 😉

GR

 

[scalpel2008]

Well here is the flip side of the question for you guys. IN dental school of course all of us thought the oral surgeons were bad*sses and do all these awsome surgeries. Well I am currently rotating in my GPR on ENT for 2 weeks, and it seems like they are doing pretty much every surgery an oral surgeon does, except for removing wisdom teeth. So my question is why become an oral surgeon when you can do ENT in the same amount of time, do pretty much the same surgeries plus a million more? Whenever there is a facial fracture of any kind including the mandible the ENT's take it here. I have seen more oral pathology come into the ENT's office for treatment from other md's, even dentists! in 2 weeks than I have seen come in a dentists office in a whole year!

As someone mentioned earlier, most don't go to dental school knowing they want to end up in OMS. People select dental school for various reasons over medical school to begin with.
Secondly, even though you get to see the ENTs doing a lot of cool procedures, the bottom line is which bread and butter do you prefer - OMS (wizzies, implants) or ENT (ear tubes and tonsils). Both specialties have their cool procedures that don't pay.
OMS procedures can be done in my (future) office which is a huge bonus for me
There must not be OMS where you are and even if there is, they are missing out.
Ofcourse, all the opinions you will get here are biased because we are dentists. i'm sure there are plenty of OMS residents out there who wish they would have just done ENT - not me, though. Also, there are many ENTs out there who are envious of OMS. There are plenty of OMS who also did ENT/PRS after and are going back to pulling wizzies.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Being dual certified is one thing... Certainly much of the current forays of OMFS into oncology and microvascular reconstruction have been borne of having dual certified people who identify with OMFS and are willing to mentor non dual-certified people in the crossover areas... Currently, though, I think one would be better off to do extra years of fellowship training and be a super bad-assed OMF Surgeon... An extra 4-5 years just to be a basic OMFS and a basic ENT is diminishing gain for more work... Face it, who cares about the voice, sinus, and inner ear aspects of ENT... You want free flaps, neck dissections, cosmetics, etc... You'd get better exposure to all of it from 3 years of fellowships than 5 years of ENT residency

Much agreed! Same could be said for OMS/Plastics. Makes no sense.

Completion of a post oms residency fellowship (cosmetic, craniofacial, H/N) is the better option.👍

 

[IcedOMFS]

There are plenty of OMS who also did ENT/PRS after and are going back to pulling wizzies.

I know a dude like this. Did dentistry, then went back and did 4 years of med school, then ENT, then OMFS... Now, at age 40-something, he realized he better start making some money, and pulls wizzies all day...

 

[EuroOMFS]

I'd like to mention one difference between the ENT and OMS recidencies I've noticed over here on the other side of the Atlantic. I don't know if this is also the case elsewhere.

The ENT residents I know consider themselves lucky if they get to remove a cervical cyst during their recidency. I&D of an abcess is a major happening for them. They get to do a ton of tonsilectomies and ear tubes though, but otherwise their operating experience is limited to holding sticks while the attendings do neck disections, remove salivary glands etc. My feeling is that ENT residents spend a lot more time in clinic and in the ward, doing scut work, then us OMS residents. When I did my 3 months rotation at the ENT dept. I rearly saw a resident in the OR.

The reason is probably that their residency is more aimed at preparing them for private practice, and the few who decide to stay in the hospital setting, get their surgical training by doing fellowships. This is different from OMS recidency where there is considerable training in surgery during recidency.

I'm guessing this is different from program to program, but my feeling is definately that ENT recidency is generally less "surgical" than OMS.

 

[toofache32]

I'd like to mention one difference between the ENT and OMS recidencies I've noticed over here on the other side of the Atlantic. I don't know if this is also the case elsewhere.

The ENT residents I know consider themselves lucky if they get to remove a cervical cyst during their recidency. I&D of an abcess is a major happening for them. They get to do a ton of tonsilectomies and ear tubes though, but otherwise their operating experience is limited to holding sticks while the attendings do neck disections, remove salivary glands etc. My feeling is that ENT residents spend a lot more time in clinic and in the ward, doing scut work, then us OMS residents. When I did my 3 months rotation at the ENT dept. I rearly saw a resident in the OR.

The reason is probably that their residency is more aimed at preparing them for private practice, and the few who decide to stay in the hospital setting, get their surgical training by doing fellowships. This is different from OMS recidency where there is considerable training in surgery during recidency.

I'm guessing this is different from program to program, but my feeling is definately that ENT recidency is generally less "surgical" than OMS.

They operate like crazy here. They do neck dissections and large resections by themselves. The staff just shows up for the free flap.