Organic Chemistry vs. Success in Medical School?

[djsbaseball2014]

Hey all,

So today in lecture, my organic chemistry professor mentioned that Organic Chemistry is one of the best predictors of how a student will do in medical school. I was just curious to hear from anyone else who had input on this matter. I know O-Chem is one of the biggest weeder classes for most pre-meds and so far i have been doing extremely well but just wanted to question the validity of his statement. Thanks

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[Dr Granger]

I've heard that same statement from premeds, advisors, and an adcom

Basically ochem is a new language and a bunch of new material thrown at you really fast --> this is what med school does to you. So can you handle it?

Just do your best. Shoot for an A. One class can't predict your overall success of as a med student. Think holistic review

 

[djsbaseball2014]

@Dr Granger Thats what he was saying, he was claiming that much like medical school, its a lot of material and you need to be able to utilize it all to solve complex problems. So far i got an A in my class last quarter and this quarter we just had our first midterm: average was a 36% and i got an 83% which i am very happy about. O-chem just makes sense to me, i liked gen chem but ochem is just so much better.

 

[eteshoe]

Not really. Like @Dr Granger said it's just learning a new language. I've known people who had a rocky start to ochem but eventually learned how to properly think and did well -> into med school, etc. If anything if ochem doesn't come easily to a student, then the strategies that they develop to pass will aid in the med school.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Organic chemistry, like medical school, generally requires resilience, perseverance, and a lot of hard work grinding out knowledge and understanding. In that sense, it is similar to the way you might (not necessarily will) be learning in medical school. It ensures that you can survive attrition. However, doing well in organic chemistry doesn't mean you'll be a rock star in medical school (most medical students did at least reasonably well in organic chemistry) and doing poorly in organic chemistry does not mean you're going to be a poor medical student.

 

[GrapesofRath]

This is one of those things gonnif has talked about in the past how 20 years or so ago your ochem grades were given a fair amount of focus and scrutiny for reasons the OP mentioned. At least these were perceived to be true. But as time has gone on less focus has been given to the individual grade of ochem alone. I think LizzyM has even mentioned at her school a shift in focus from physics and ochem grades to overall GPA to some extent

The ultimate sign you can tell ochem might not be given the same weight today is how many schools have dropped ochem2 as a requirement or allow it to be replaced with biochem. So perhaps it's one of those old adages or legends per se that ochem correlates with medical achool ability but it might not be perceived to hold as true as it once did

 

[Lawpy]

So today in lecture, my organic chemistry professor mentioned that Organic Chemistry is one of the best predictors of how a student will do in medical school.

 

[redferrari]

I don't think there's a 100% objective way to determine this. At my undergrad alone, different professors were known as harder or easier, and score distributions often reflected this. I thought O Chem was my easiest science class, yet a friend I consider much smarter than myself had fits over it. It may be a rough indicator of medical school success, but I think your effort in medical school is the driving force behind success in medical school.

 

[kb1900]

This is one of those things gonnif has talked about in the past how 20 years or so ago your ochem grades were given a fair amount of focus and scrutiny for reasons the OP mentioned. At least these were perceived to be true. But as time has gone on less focus has been given to the individual grade of ochem alone. I think LizzyM has even mentioned at her school a shift in focus from physics and ochem grades to overall GPA to some extent

The ultimate sign you can tell ochem might not be given the same weight today is how many schools have dropped ochem2 as a requirement or allow it to be replaced with biochem. So perhaps it's one of those old adages or legends per se that ochem correlates with medical achool ability but it might not be perceived to hold as true as it once did

On that note however, I have heard from 2 different adcoms at top 20 programs saying that they care about biochem grades more than in the past

 

[weanprednisone]

I think you'd develop good studying habits to use in medical school. But not necessarily the material... I agree with above commenters. Orgo was the first science class where I felt challenged. Challenged in a fact where a "fact" was not true in all situations, a single reagent/position/situation could change the answer, and that required me to think harder. I had to put in more effort and time vs other people, but I ended up doing well. I think its about the studying habits. Best of luck!

 

[Citygirl44]

Biochem or Ochem ?( I did much better in one than the other.)

On that note however, I have heard from 2 different adcoms at top 20 programs saying that they care about biochem grades more than in the past

/

 

[Sardinia]

Was the professor aware of what % of students in the Organic Chemistry class got into medical school?

 

[discodave]

I have done extensive research into the relationship between Organic Chemistry and 1st year medical school success. Having A grades in organic chemistry has little to no effect for students with high performing MCAT scores, 509 and above. Poor organic chemistry grades has a greater effect for those with lower MCAT scores, particularly marginal MCAT scores, 498-502.
Here is a brief summary of the effect:
MCAT 498-502: Each C+ or lower in organic chemistry I or II has the same average effect as scoring 4 points lower on the MCAT. Having no lower than A- has the same average effect as scoring 2 points higher on the MCAT. To put this into persepective. A student with a 500 MCAT and one low Organic Chemistry grade (even if they retook it) has the same risk of failing a class during M1 as someone with a 495 MCAT who had no low organic chemistry grades all other things being held equal.
MCAT 503-508: Each C+ or lower in organic chemistry I or II has the same average effect as scoring 3 points lower on the MCAT. There is no statistically significant increased benefit when all organic chemistry grades are A- or higher.
MCAT 509 or above had no measurable effect due to the organic chemistry grades.
This study was done across three M.D. medical schools over two years worth of students in the midwest. The results may not be applicable to D.O. schools, but there likely is still some measureable effect.

After the internal study was completed, the admissions decisions were modified to simply look at the organic chemistry in terms of how it changes risk of M1 success, rather than using it as an explicit gate keeper as was done in the past. Organic chemistry in our study showed that it indicates a certain level of resiliancy and committent to adapt rather than the actual knowledge gained. Both are important skills needed in medical school success.

So, if you struggled in O-Chem I, but managed to get things together in O-Chem II, shoot for a high MCAT and address what you learned about yourself and your learning strategies in the written statement and interview.

On a side note of the study, we also found that pre-med students who were motivated enough to take Calculus II when it was not required, tended to perform better than predicted based on all other academic factors. One of the three admissions processes into medical school considers calculus II as a positive factor during the admissions process, while the others do not.

 

[Piglet2020]

Everyone is talking about how bad ochem was but can we take a moment to reflect how terrible genchem was? Much prefer med schools consider ochem more than other chem classes.

 

[dr_kateb]

Ochem really is not that hard. It’s the lab “taught” by TAs that are insufferable pricks that is the major pain in the ass