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Ortho 2015
Started by Str8smiles
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naw, nobody is applying
Well duh just wondering why nobody is asking questions like omfs applicants...
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Have you already submitted your pass?
Yes, applying to only a few places as my stats are not spectacular, and only the ones with stipends. I am not your typical applicant. I have my own office and just have student loans, so I would like to get into ortho, but not with tuition. If I don't get in I will just continue working at my office.
Good luck, how long have you been out? Are you an associate?
That makes 3 of us...same here not great stats as well. I applied to 17 just because I'm unsure which schools will take my post grad time as a good thing and those that will hate it. I'm hoping for 4 interviews
Good luck to you too. I only applied to 5, I've been a few years out. Couldn't imagine taking on more debt. I'm hoping for 1 interview and 1 acceptance.
Thanks 011110. Hope the adcom's show a lot of GP love this cycle! I've only been out a year. And yep, I've got a good associateship gig going on so it's nice to have a fallback. Hey there Str8smiles, glad to hear there are more non-traditional applicants out there 
. I'm applying to the same amount of schools as you are, and for the same reasons. I'm also still on the fence about a couple non-match places so that number might go up by a couple.
. I'm applying to the same amount of schools as you are, and for the same reasons. I'm also still on the fence about a couple non-match places so that number might go up by a couple.Thanks 011110. Hope the adcom's show a lot of GP love this cycle! I've only been out a year. And yep, I've got a good associateship gig going on so it's nice to have a fallback. Hey there Str8smiles, glad to hear there are more non-traditional applicants out there
Haha yea I hear ya, I scored low 80s but did a GPR. Going against these pups with P/F on the boards maybe we'll get some love for experience.
I know I wish they would just print pass on ours to make it equal but that is fair and nothing in life is fair haha. I did post grad year too so fingers crossed.
Glad I found some fellow gps here. What do you guys think of the future of ortho? I was really torn on applying because everyone on dentaltown and some orthos I've talked to are concerned about the future
Since we're the only ones actively posting (and something tells me the 3 of us aren't solely racking up the 200+ views, lol) I'm wondering if we should start a separate one...Confessions of GPs Applying for Ortho... haha.
I'm in a pretty cutthroat area and while it's tough for any new grad regardless of specialty, I suppose it depends on how you define a bright or dismal future. If we're talking about saturation, the way I see it, I already drive out to the boonies to work at an office I love. I'd be more than willing to do the same as an ortho associate until I'm ready to open my own practice. But 011110, could you eventually convert your current office into an ortho one? If that's the case, it might be easier to spread the word about your services via your existing patient base.
I'm in a pretty cutthroat area and while it's tough for any new grad regardless of specialty, I suppose it depends on how you define a bright or dismal future. If we're talking about saturation, the way I see it, I already drive out to the boonies to work at an office I love. I'd be more than willing to do the same as an ortho associate until I'm ready to open my own practice. But 011110, could you eventually convert your current office into an ortho one? If that's the case, it might be easier to spread the word about your services via your existing patient base.
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Haha yea I'm sure we're not the only 3. Yea i agree, that's what leaned me to applying. I could convert it or use it as a satellite office because it is fairly small. When do interviews start, Sept?
Well I think ortho is quickly becoming the less sought out specialty bc of the feelings of it being less lucrative than it once was. Before NiTi ortho was ridiculous and took forever to bend every wire just perfect, then NiTi made it so orthos could see way more patients in a day making it seem not only where the money is at but easy. Now though that "easiness" is perceived by the gen den as well as an easy way to increase their profits by keeping more specialty in house. Which is fine but eventually they will get into trouble trying to do too hard of cases and really mess some up and back away. Not everyone is a 6 month smiles case or an Invisalign case. I know I feel comfy moving a few teeth around but talking about masking a class 2 or something and I know I need the training. Either way I'm not overly worried bc there will always be hard cases and quite honestly I don't care about the money. I make good money as a GP but it's not my passion. I feel a difference in my attitude when I'm seeing an ortho pt vs another class 2 restoration. That's just my two cents and probably not even worth that lol
I think it depends on the residency director, i've read on some websites saying no other job, but i have also heard of people doing it as well. I would say tough it out for the first 6 months and see how things go and how busy you are in residency before asking...
What do you think is contributing more to the lowered desirability of ortho: saturation due to ortho educational mills like Roseman which take 10-15 residents each PGY and charge them $50k or improving technology? Thanks.
Heh: http://www.roseman.edu/admissions-aeodo-nv/aeodo-tuition-and-fees
So if someone comes out with 500K of dental school debt, then attends Roseman Ortho, that would be:
860K with no undergrad debt, assuming 7.35%.
@Str8smiles
How long would it realistically take to pay this back?
If academic debt plus practice debt is ~1.3 million, and with an income of 300K....
That would leave you with about 45K for the first ten years, then ~100K for the next ten.
At least, I'm guessing.
thanx
Saturation, corporate companies like invisalign, economy, etc
I would think long and hard before taking out over 400k in loans. 860k you will be living like a pauper, and I'm not so sure you are guaranteed 300k income either. I would say 200k is probably a better bet.
Really? Is this what you have heard from other orthos? I thought that most Orthos could reasonably reach about ~300K outside of major cities. @BlueToothHunter told me that in LA you probably won't get above 250K. @charlestweed never answers questions about income and he works in LA.
Would you say 200K as an owner? Or as an associate?
I agree about the debt. 860K is ridiculous, but not at all out of the question for MANY programs out there.
thanx
Based off my experience working in the real world, seeing the going rate of pay and being an owner, 300k is a big time stretch for an ortho. Maybe in the future as an owner in an ideal location, but like I said closer to 200k. As an associate you are making a lot less than 300k. That's just the market right now.
I think all of the above is contributing. More residents graduating, less work due to general dentists doing ortho. I spoke with a general dentist recently who said I didn't need to go into ortho bc I could do all the ortho I wanted as a GP.
I'm hoping the biggest drop I applicants yet is this year and increases my chances of getting in!!! Basically I think ortho is becoming more like other specialties where we will only get referred the hardest cases. But the demand will go down and so will the applicants. Anyone know what happened to perio back in the day?? I mean for a long time they couldn't get their residencies filled and it drove down the competition for getting in and now it seems like a lot of people are going perio again. Maybe the same will happen to ortho. Things wax and wane bc people go the route to more money generally.
Well I know someone that has 450k from dental school and their income based repayment monthly is 3700. So more than a 10 year but less than a 30. Adding in disgusting numbers like UOP (90k about/yr) I can't imagine that kind of debt. Which is why I stayed away from ridiculously expensive schools. I would bet 860k would amount to about 8-9k a month for a 10 yr and 6500 for IBR. But at 35% tax bracket you have to make 10k just to pay that freaking bill not including normal living expenses. You would have to make about 200k a year coming out to be able to afford a few things and still pay your bills. From what I've heard 200 is pretty high for a new grad and actually is above the national avg for an ortho 195k.
But back to the application cycle...a few schools had their deadlines last week...how long until they make their interview selection do you think? What about some of the schools who are later dates...do they pick for interviews as they come in or do they only give you like 2 weeks notice?? Anyone out there know from last year??
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Sitting on pins and needles!!! VCU's email says they won't start looking at applications until after the deadline. Same for UIC when I called that's what they said.
Not to mention the absence of retirement savings and of course the time-value of money.
What a rip.
I read recently about an orthodontist on dentaltown who finished in '73 with 12K of debt. That's about 65K in today's dollars. 65K.
Correction, I was told today that you would not need to submit an NBDE score report. The person I spoke to said they were just made aware that they were not needed.
Which schools are the most competitive for acceptance? I understand that the schools that pay or have no tuition and schools that are 2 years are more lucrative and competitive, however, are there any specific schools that are more competitive?
Such as Texas schools? West Coast? East Coast? etc?
Are there certain schools that lower stats/ranked applicants should not bother applying to as it would be a waste of money essentially...?
Such as Texas schools? West Coast? East Coast? etc?
Are there certain schools that lower stats/ranked applicants should not bother applying to as it would be a waste of money essentially...?
