Ortho match without research experience

[jdizzle]

anyone out there match or know anyone that matched in ortho without any research experience, but having excellent preclinical and clinical grades and great step 1 and 2 scores?

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[Bill Lumbergh]

well, according to the NRMP match data, out of 559 US seniors that matched ortho, 34 had participated in no research projects whatsoever.

https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...version68.pdf&prd_id=159&prv_id=189&pdf_id=68

 

[PediBoneDoc]

the answer would be yes ... there are many programs that are community programs were reseach is not as important ... and even in some programs if you have a strong clinical background the research may not be important ...

please remember, we look at the whole picture .... research is only one part ... we see A LOT of CV padding .... so becareful with research done "just because" you needed to check that box on your application ...

 

[hammena1]

Every door is open if you rotate and interview well. I was very honest when I rotated that I didn't like research and wasn't planning on doing any in my career. I had good scores, but no AOA or research. I matched at an academic center based solely on my performance as a rotating MS4. I think every resident/staff/PD would agree that the most important component in an applicant's package are their rotation evals and interview.

Having said that, you need to have everything else on your application sparkling if you don't have any research. Get to the hospital an hour before you interns and do as much of their work as you can quietly (ie no saying "I came in at 3:00am today" - even though you did). read before your cases and stay until the scut is done which is often until 8 or 9 at night. Rinse and repeat for 4 weeks 7 days a week and you will build a reputation as the hardest working MS4. Word will circulate to the staff/PD's that you will interview with. Hard working and trainable are 2 of the best qualities for an ortho resident. Good luck.

 

[PediBoneDoc]

hammena1 .... i can not agree with you more

 

[LuckyMD2b]

the answer would be yes ... there are many programs that are community programs were reseach is not as important ... and even in some programs if you have a strong clinical background the research may not be important ...

please remember, we look at the whole picture .... research is only one part ... we see A LOT of CV padding .... so becareful with research done "just because" you needed to check that box on your application ...

I don't think that programs are as good at picking up on application padding as you are implying. I wish they were, but unfortunately an interviewer simply cannot tell what an applicant has in his heart.

According to the match data frequently referred to in these forums 559/593 orthopedic residency applicants have research experience -- while only a minority of orthopaedic surgeons are doing research in practice and even fewer are in academics.

I think that there were more than a few places that I applied to where I didn't get interviews because I didn't have any ortho research. That being said I did get a lot of interviews and will probably not need to scramble this tuesday (hopefully).

But, this process is a GAME and you can't win if you don't play. Get involved in some research -- when I was at my interviews there were times that I felt STUPID for not just rolling up my sleeves and getting in on a project that I found mildly interesting during 2nd or 3rd year. Some programs want to produce academics. Don't sell yourself short, doing research - no matter what- IS educational PLUS it's good for you. So just do it -- do it to learn how to think about ortho in a different way. Do it well, and be able to talk about it during your interviews.

This is not padding, this is making yourself more marketable. In college I was required to take a foreign language, did I want to do it... HELLS NO; am I glad that I did because it will help me out in the future... YES.

 

[jdizzle]

thanks for the great responses. i feel like i still have a good chance. I will try to get on some research projects if i can and if not i will work my butt off when i rotate at a program.

 

[PediBoneDoc]

LuckyMD2b ...

i would disagree that most programs don't know when there is CV padding ... being on the resident selection committee currently and having been on the committee at 2 other institutions ... most are acutely aware of padded CV as most men are no longer fooled by padded bras ...

there are several criteria that most programs look at ... research tends to be one of them ... if the initial screening process includes research, then if you check the box that you have research experience ... then you may make the screening cut ....

once it comes down to the interview, this is when we can expose the flaws in the application ....

so, my recommendation is ... if you are interested in research, do it no matter what anyone says because a genuine interest will show ... if you are doing it so you can say you did it, this will also show ...

anyway, that's all i got ...

 

[beastmaster]

if the initial screening process includes research, then if you check the box that you have research experience ... then you may make the screening cut ....

How widespread is automatic screening based on mere absence/presence of research?

 

[PediBoneDoc]

the easiest screening tool is USMLE step 1 ... because everyone has to take it in MD residencies (not sure about DO residencies) ....

some programs may have a point system screening tool ... this may take in to acount multiple factors that can be quickly reviewed such as clinical grades, AOA, USMLE, research, etc.

the problem with everything except for USMLE is that to really assess each area you have to read into the application more (kinda defeats the purpose of a screen) ... and everyone is not on the exact same level ... that is why many will have a "cut off" for USMLE scores ....

so, there are many that may use reseach as a screening tool ... it is clear to me that placing research experience on the application is like checking yes i volunteered when applying to medical school ... many applicants i have interviewed have real research and an understanding of it (up grade ) ... and others it is clear that they have no idea of what they were doing (down grade ) ...

so, do what you want .... if you are honest, work hard, and have at least half a brain, it will show and you will probably get in somewhere ... trying to pull the wool over our eyes, not smart .... many of us know the tricks and will call your bluff ....

 

[LuckyMD2b]

I matched! No ortho research (did do one very insignificant project in EM). Only problem is I don't know where yet.

 

[cbest]

For those of you that completed research, was it specifically in the realm of orthopedics or was it any research that was completed during medical school? Do you usually complete the research project during the summer or did you set up an elective in 4th year specifically to fill this "requirement"?

Thanks very much for all the info!!!

 

[lattimer13]

i matched ortho this year and had two research experiences listed on my application...they were both prior to med school during undergrad. my research only came up a few times during interviews and i was very honest that it wasn't something that interested me at this point in time and my prior experience was done more just to have said i've done research at some point. no one had a problem w/ it.

 

[Tired]

For those of you that completed research, was it specifically in the realm of orthopedics or was it any research that was completed during medical school? Do you usually complete the research project during the summer or did you set up an elective in 4th year specifically to fill this "requirement"?

Thanks very much for all the info!!!

I did it during MS2 & MS3 years, none in MS4. None of it was in Orthopedics.

 

[Faze2]

So this is research that you do during med school, not before? I am applying to med school next year and want to go into ortho.

 

[Tired]

So this is research that you do during med school, not before? I am applying to med school next year and want to go into ortho.

Yes.

 

[Shpamme]

Can I ask how you go about approaching professors for research experience? Do you cold-email?

If so, should you:
1. Have an idea for a particular project in mind?
2. Look up professors on Pubmed and see what current/recent projects they have that interest you?
3. Just say you're interested in any topic (which for me, is truly the case because though I've done a lot of molecular orthopedics research, I've never done clinical research).

What do you say in the cold email? I'm trying to draft one and everything I say seems inordinately stupid to me. These doctors are all super smart..do they really want to hear about my experience and the few molecular papers I've published, or why I'm interested in orthopedics?

Does it have to be clinical research or should it be a mix of molecular and clinical?

Is publication necessary or does just the experience and the ability to speak articulately about it suffice?

Thanks so much!

 

[JDWflash44]

Advice from another medical student:

Try to find out if the ortho program has a director of research, then try to set up a meeting. Just say that you are interested in ortho and that you are interested in doing some research and that you would like to meet and see what opportunities are available. Short and to the point. Dont go on a diatribe about why ortho or anything like that. Attach a copy of your CV in case they want to see it.

That has worked for me for both doing research, going into the OR , and getting involved in other clincal stuff.

 

[Mr. Three-Wiggle]

How does reimbursement work for research done in medical school? Are we mostly doing voluntary work with the hopes of being published? Is it asking a lot to expect pay as well? I've got a voluntary position lined up and they tell me a pub or two is nearly guaranteed... Can I have my cake and eat it too?