Ortho still possible?

[Aswandoshik]

Step 1 232
Step 2 ck 244
Clerkships: all high pass except honors in ambulatory medicine
11 research projects (6 in ortho), 5 publications (2 first-author), 15 conference presentations
Top 20 US med school
MBA from top 10 business school
Ties to Northeast and Midwest

Is ortho a pipe dream at this point? Would do away rotations at lower-tier/community programs

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[studentdocftw]

Depends on your definition of pipe dream. Based on your step 1, previous applicants in the 231-240 range matched at 75%. On your step 2, previous applicants in the 241-250 range matched at 78%. I'd imagine your research is on par for most ortho applicants..so you still have a shot. AOA would be a huge boost to your application..otherwise, apply broadly and I think you would still have a reasonable chance assuming your LORs are on point and your aways go well. Your best resource for advice is your M4 graduates that just matched into ortho. They would know which programs have accepted your schools ortho students the most, and which ones are more forgiving for below avg boards.

 

[Dr. Doctor MD]

Step 1 232
Step 2 ck 244
Clerkships: all high pass except honors in ambulatory medicine
11 research projects (6 in ortho), 5 publications (2 first-author), 15 conference presentations
Top 20 US med school
MBA from top 10 business school
Ties to Northeast and Midwest

Is ortho a pipe dream at this point? Would do away rotations at lower-tier/community programs

Top 20 is helpful as is your slightly above average research. But both Step 1 and Step 2 are ~50th percentile which is far below the ortho average, and only 1 Honor is not helpful either. Those are all big obstacles to matching.

The 75% match rate for 230s is highly self selective, and would obviously not apply to you in a vacuum. Most of the people matching below 240 would have significant ties or are otherwise exceptional in every other way possible. I don't think you would fall into that category based on your post.

If you pick strategic aways and your home program loves you, that would (hopefully) be 4 interviews right there, and those programs are more likely than not to overlook the grades/board scores. I would recommend talking to your home PD. If they love you and would match you there, then you should apply. If there is any hesitancy on their part, I wouldn't bother. If your home program doesn't want to take you, it's very unlikely you'll be able to convince PDs on ERAS who have never met you that you would be a good fit for their program.

Your other alternative is to dual apply general surgery and ortho.

TLDR:
If your home program loves you, give it a shot expecting to match their or at an away rotation. Otherwise I wouldn't expect much love during interview season from programs that you don't have a strong connection to.

 

[VincentAdultman]

You have a shot. Focus on your aways. Make sure you know your research. You can consider dual applying, but realize that this is a double-edged sword.

 

[VincentAdultman]

If you pick strategic aways and your home program loves you, that would (hopefully) be 4 interviews right there, and those programs are more likely than not to overlook the grades/board scores. I would recommend talking to your home PD. If they love you and would match you there, then you should apply. If there is any hesitancy on their part, I wouldn't bother. If your home program doesn't want to take you, it's very unlikely you'll be able to convince PDs on ERAS who have never met you that you would be a good fit for their program.

You cannot trust anything that a PD says prior to match. Even at your home program. They may tell you that they love you and that you'll be ranked to match." Maybe they tell that to all the students to get them to rank them highly. And even if they don't you don't know that that garantees that youll be a poor fit at other programs. I mean OP is going to get interviews with those stats aways or not. Then it just comes down to how he does at those interviews.

If you love ortho, go for ortho. Now is not the time to hedge and spend the rest of your life pondering hypotheticals.

 

[LebronManning]

You can consider dual applying, but realize that this is a double-edged sword.

Is it a double edged sword because it can lower your chances of matching the first specialty. Say, a fringe candidate double applied to ortho and IM, could they at least take comfort in that they would match IM? Would they have to tell IM programs that they are also applying ortho?

 

[VincentAdultman]

Is it a double edged sword because it can lower your chances of matching the first specialty. Say, a fringe candidate double applied to ortho and IM, could they at least take comfort in that they would match IM? Would they have to tell IM programs that they are also applying ortho?

If they ask you can’t lie. But you don’t have to volunteer that information.

I mean yes you can take comfort in knowing that at least you’ll match IM, but then again I don’t know a lot of people who would’ve been happy with IM had they not matched into ortho.

I thought about applying to gen surg as a backup. In the end I decided that since I was a borderline applicant I should dedicate all my energy to getting into ortho. I’m not saying that’s right, just that it was my feeling.

 

[VincentAdultman]

It would hurt your chances in both. OP would still probably match IM, but programs who would've otherwise interviewed them would notice the ortho aways, letters, ortho research and realize that they are likely dual applying (someone with a heavy ortho app who decided last minute to apply IM would address the change in specialty in their personal statement, which OP can't do without lying if they were dual applying). There are more than enough great IM applicants who love the field to fill interviews spots that programs might not waste an interview on OP

Yeah. You’re likely not getting a top spot in your backup specialty.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Kill your aways, and you have a good shot.

 

[libertyyne]

Odds are a little better than a coin flip based on the step 1.

However your research producivity and school name are working in your favor.

 

[7331poas]

These numbers do not say if the person took research years nor does it talk about the research output of individuals at different ends of the bell curve.

 

[libertyyne]

These numbers do not say if the person took research years nor does it talk about the research output of individuals at different ends of the bell curve.

Thats what my comment did.
Obviously there is some amount of damage control one can do if they end up on the wrong end of the bell curve in terms of step. I dont think it is outrageous to say that people on the lower end of the step curve may have tried to compensate by generating more research or taking research years since that is usually the advice PDs hand out.

 

[libertyyne]

These numbers do not say if the person took research years nor does it talk about the research output of individuals at different ends of the bell curve.

It is interesting tho , that the number of publications does not significantly impact outcomes in this range of step score in the 1-15 range unless they are greater than 15, and furthermore, all applicants get the greatest boost at 25 which is likely the result of a research year.