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Orthopaedic Surgery
Started by zion
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Ortho is just a plain awesome field; power tools, hammers, screws...It also gives the physician the ability to drastically improve the quality of life for their pt. However, orthopod attendings have among the highest average weekly hours at 65+. This seems to also be a field that attracts a "certain kind of personality."
Avg USMLE board scores considered competitive are generally 230+ range. It is also something that many people will tell you have to have a great audition rotation, working your ass off the entire time.
Avg USMLE board scores considered competitive are generally 230+ range. It is also something that many people will tell you have to have a great audition rotation, working your ass off the entire time.
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Yup...I used to think it was a horrible generalization until I saw a group of ortho residents. It was like they were identical clones of each other: all big, tall white guys. (Apparently, being big and tall is a requirement too)
As for the hours they work, I thought orthopods typically work less hours as compared to other surgeons?
As for the hours they work, I thought orthopods typically work less hours as compared to other surgeons?
Do you mean that ortho residents work crazy long hours? Or that ortho licensed physicians work crazy long hours? I always thought that once you finished your post-grad training and went into private practice, that you basically call the shots on when and how long you work. Correct?
I don't know about residents, but I shadowed an ortho surgeon that specialized in the ankle and foot, private practice. He worked 9 to 4:30 on the days not performing surgery. He scheduled surgery as early as 6 a.m. on his surgery days, and finished those days anywhere from 4 to 6 p.m.
Octo is right about private practice ones, but ortho attendings do have among the highest average hours as I said in my first post. Most orthos I have known, except a hand specialist, work w/ a group where the 'senior' physicians have more of a say on what hours they work.
Ortho spine surgeons are a whole different bunch...they will go all night long in 8-12 hour surgeries just to do it again the next morning.
Ortho spine surgeons are a whole different bunch...they will go all night long in 8-12 hour surgeries just to do it again the next morning.
BlondeCookie said:
as a private practice doc you can set your own hours. where you get into trouble is when you have to take call. i use to work as an aide in a hospital and always pittied the orthopod on call during the weekends when ice storms hit. they would be in the or all weekend fixing hips and femurs.
You mean the circulators and scrub nurses? Yes. If they have a lunch coming or it's the end of their shift, someone comes in to relieve them. The circulating RNs get a lot of breaks too, even if they haven't really done anything, lol.
mysophobe said:
haha...yea...I noticed that too!
the ortho residents were dissecting in our anatomy lab and these huge guys were surrounding this short guy in the middle
he looked like a kid! until i got closer and realized it said attending on his ID card
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Perhaps it is not about height or skin color, but that ortho folks have to be pretty strong- these bones are HEAVY!
As for how much an attending works in private practice: if you want more $, you need to work more, esp with insurance paying physicians fewer dollars these days. To maintain your 'lifestyle,' working a lot might be necessary. I am sure, somewhere out there, there is a ortho surgeon who is not a big burly man, and works part-time.
As for how much an attending works in private practice: if you want more $, you need to work more, esp with insurance paying physicians fewer dollars these days. To maintain your 'lifestyle,' working a lot might be necessary. I am sure, somewhere out there, there is a ortho surgeon who is not a big burly man, and works part-time.
zion said:
huge allure to those who are interested in sports...as is sports medicine in pmr and fam.
strength requirement bc as was stated some surgeries are long and require lots of lifting.
not all orthos fit the "jock" but since they deal with a lot of athletes on a regular basis, those interested typically have sports backgrounds.
i knew a very reknowned orthopod who made candy in his basement every year...he was like Willy Wonka..very nice guy and family..another one who played football at intercollegiate level....there are varying personalities....from the ten or so i've met, they seem a bit more chill than g. surgeons.
ortho trauma is a b****....as one of my friends told me, dont go into this field unless you LOVE it...lots of sacrifice.
if you like sports or helping old people with arthritis...than this is your thing.
glp said:
Um, sorry for the uninformed question but, if you are in private practice when and why would you have to be on call? I thought that being on call was only for the docs actually employed by a hospital. If I'm going into private practice, then I call the shots. Right?
B
Blade28
BlondeCookie said:
Nope. Who's going to take care of your patients who get end up in the ER at night? You need to take care of them.
Blade28 said:
I don't know. I just thought that a ortho doc could work in his own solo private practice, have the requisite hospital rights to use the operating rooms to do surgeries and never have to be on call. I mean, aren't there orthopods that only work on pro athletes? So can't you just have an agreement with the hospital that you just aren't available for call? Maybe the attendings at the hospital can deal with the late night broken hips and things.
I think it depends on where you work. I suppose you could work for a private clinic, which may even be associated with a hospital, but if they have their own orthopods, then you wouldn't take call, or it'd be pretty spread out.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong. I'm thinking of cases where there's a big hospital nearby, but you work at the sports medicine clinic down the road.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong. I'm thinking of cases where there's a big hospital nearby, but you work at the sports medicine clinic down the road.
Orthopaedic= british spelling, orthopedic= U.S. spelling, of course depending on who you talk to they seem to like one better than the other.
i think some of the stereotypes r misleading... when i was applying for ortho i was under this impression too and thought that it might be a real obstacle when I tried to match. but it really is not the case.
yes ortho is mostly guys, probably 8 or 9 out of 10.
but thats about where these comments stopped being accurate.
remember, the average boards are high... 230's maybe closer to 240... so it not just a bunch of dumb jocks.
from what i saw, some of the community programs tended to be more homogeneous... mostly white guys, lots of jocks, sports talk in the OR, football and weightlifting after work. it seemed like u really had to "fit in" to do well in this kind of program... like a fraternity or something.
but most of the better ortho programs were not this way. In general the orthopods were smart, hardworking, responsible. a lot of them are actually on the quieter side. white's are not represented anymore than they are in any other specialty. I matched ortho at one of the roughest hospitals in the country and i'm definitely not an alpha-male ex-jock type.
yes ortho is mostly guys, probably 8 or 9 out of 10.
but thats about where these comments stopped being accurate.
remember, the average boards are high... 230's maybe closer to 240... so it not just a bunch of dumb jocks.
from what i saw, some of the community programs tended to be more homogeneous... mostly white guys, lots of jocks, sports talk in the OR, football and weightlifting after work. it seemed like u really had to "fit in" to do well in this kind of program... like a fraternity or something.
but most of the better ortho programs were not this way. In general the orthopods were smart, hardworking, responsible. a lot of them are actually on the quieter side. white's are not represented anymore than they are in any other specialty. I matched ortho at one of the roughest hospitals in the country and i'm definitely not an alpha-male ex-jock type.
My home ortho program then is probably not a good one. It is ALL male, ALL white, ALL huge!!
It isn't that surprising though as I take a look at the overall student body in the medical school. It too lacks diversity. I guess the PD's think like the med school admissions committee.
It isn't that surprising though as I take a look at the overall student body in the medical school. It too lacks diversity. I guess the PD's think like the med school admissions committee.
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BlondeCookie said:
At larger hospitals you can decide who you see. For example, my dad's an orthopaedist, and we've lived in two very different places: Orange, CA and Maui, HI. By the time my dad left private practice, he was very seldomly on ER call, and he'd only go in for his patients; he wouldn't see new patients because there were over 20 othopods on staff (I think it was around 40, but I could be mistaken since we moved when I was 12).
Now in Hawaii, there are 5 othropods orthopaedists in our area, so they rotate call every 5th night, including the guys in private practice. Now my dad works for Kaiser, so he shares "Kaiser Call" with the other orthopaedist there. He's on every 5th night, plus 24 hour call for any small emergency (or a treatment that has to be delayed) of a Kaiser patient. The other orthopod on call with take bigger emergencies for Kaiser patients.
I'm also interested in ortho (as of right now, I like the idea of hand surgery)-- I love power tools, and the hand is so cool (the foot's also really sweet).
beefballs said:
No, not really. All our ortho matches were big white guys.
There have been occasional Asian males but they have been kind of big jock types too.
One of our faculty told us it's one of the few fields this is still very white male (almost exclusively).
Though I believe either Cornell or Columbia this year has an Asian female going into ortho at SUNY/Brooklyn (Downstate).
Orthopedics has been mostly white male dominated field for a long time, but I think that is changing..... slowly. Too say that everyone is an ex-jock, big, dudes, is a little mis representing. I interviewed with a lady last year who was 5 feet tall and weighted about 100lbs and she ended up matching into a good program. This year, University of Virginia matched 5/6 Interns that are African American, including 2 women. (The chairman at UVA is the only african american chairman in the country). One of the reasons why Ortho attacts more Jock types is because of Sports medicine.... and the difference between Ortho sports vs Family med sports is "Operative" sports med vs "Non-Operative" sports med. That is a HUGE difference and one of the reasons why I decided to do Ortho instead of EM. It is a great field, and something that you do not learn/get exposed to in medical school. You do a great deal for the patient in terms of improving their quality of life and the patients really appreciate what you do. For the most part, your patients will also be more motivated to get better (unless you do spine.... then all of your patients do is complaint 😀 ). There is a ton of really high tech instruments in the OR for your working pleasure. I can go on and on about what i like about this field. The only down side is that you do lose the bread/butter you learned in medical school in terms of medicine, but if you ask any Orthopod, we are very happy to have Internal Medicine service manage our sick patients pre and post op. I think one of the other myths is that people often joke around that Ortho guys are dumb as a brick, but most of the people who are in my program are between 230-250 on step I and AOA (~50%) and at least top 1/3 of their respective medical schools. Most of the people that matched Ortho are probably in that ball park. Doing Orthopedics does not make you stupid, it is just a different type of concepts/techniques that our speciality requires us to master. I have to say, there are some pretty funny Ortho jokes out there.
Wahoos said:
Thanks for the reply. this clears up alot of things for me. I'm a 2nd year and just now have thought of ortho. I'll be taking a year off next year so probably lean towards doing ortho research.
Im not a jock type but I love working with tools and fixing things (although I'm not a wood working type of person more tractors and cars)
Thanks again
im brown, 5'7". there are plenty of people in my program (30-40 residents) that are not white or jacked. but i remember reading somewhere that ortho has the lowest number of female residents (areound 10%) of any other field. and also the lowest number of females as attendings in academia (around 5%).
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