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@RueTay Any suggestions for signing up for summer research?
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Orthopedic Surgery, ask a resident anything
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You are a psychotic person. I'm really hoping that acceptance you claim in your status is either false or somewhere off the mainland.
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@RueTay So I am in sort of a dilemma about whether to go for ortho or not. In college, my dream was to go into ortho and become a team physician for a major sports team. Fast forward a few years, now I am a MS2 at a top-tier institution. Since I started medical school, I kind of let that dream go because I felt like all the ortho kids (and plastic, derm, etc.) tend to be "gunners" of the class. To be honest, I cannot be more different from most of those people, and it made me feel really uncomfortable that that's what it takes to get into ortho, so I sort of gave up on that dream. Also, not being in the "top" of my class also discouraged me from pursuing ortho, even though nothing really matters during pre-clinical because it's P/F (I'm probably in the 50th-75th percentile in my class).
My mentality now is that if I score well on my STEP 1 (>245 is my goal) which I am taking in 2.5 months, I will consider pursuing ortho again. Would that be too late to start going for ortho? I know ortho is one of those specialties that people start preparing their resume starting day 1 of medical school. I would not mind taking a year off to do ortho research if that's what it takes. I am currently doing outcomes research in transplant surgery. But yeah, bottomline is: Is it too late if I decide to go for ortho after seeing how my step 1 score turns out? If not, what are your recommendations on how to get there?
My mentality now is that if I score well on my STEP 1 (>245 is my goal) which I am taking in 2.5 months, I will consider pursuing ortho again. Would that be too late to start going for ortho? I know ortho is one of those specialties that people start preparing their resume starting day 1 of medical school. I would not mind taking a year off to do ortho research if that's what it takes. I am currently doing outcomes research in transplant surgery. But yeah, bottomline is: Is it too late if I decide to go for ortho after seeing how my step 1 score turns out? If not, what are your recommendations on how to get there?
Not too late at all. If you get a nice step score and have a little research on your resume (doesn't necessarily need to be Ortho) you have a good start. The biggest key is to do well on your Ortho rotations, get strong letters, do well on non Ortho rotations, and pick your away rotations wisely.
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I'm starting medical school this fall and I'm not absolutely sure what I want to do, but ortho has always been high on my list since it seems very gratifying; most patients have problems that can be fixed with a reasonably high chance of an excellent outcome. As a surgical technologist, I have over a decade of experience in ortho, and in my current position in a private facility with no residents, I regularly first-assist (preparing ACL autografts, assisting on ORIFs, etc.). Assuming competitive step 1 scores and everything else being equal, do you think this kind of experience will make any difference in residency applications? Would it make sense to keep working part-time with some of the surgeons who know me well during med school, or would research make more sense?
Your experience will make a difference, but not necessarily in a positive way. I think You need to keep your experience on the down low. Use the skills and knowledge to you have to look good, but don't broadcast to the residents and attendings how much experience you have. If it comes across as you being arrogant they may resent you for it. If you play your cards right, however, it will really help your chances at getting into Ortho
Job market is great. Some cities are pretty saturated and therefore competitive but guys are retiring and every year there are jobs open. If you are well trained you can go wherever you want. That's the key.
Do it. Best to find a research job that pays. Then find a babe and buy her a drink.
I hope you and I do not cross paths in any capacity. Good luck buddy
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That makes sense. Thanks!
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How much can the average resident bench press in your specialty?
Probably similar to officer farva
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@RueTay Thank you for this forum. Very helpful! I'm applying for medical schools right now, and I really am very interested in Ortho and Sports Med. I did college athletics and had tons of exposure to ortho surgeons and sports med docs. I know that that is what I want to do. However, I also realize that ortho is the most competitive residency out there. I have a couple simple questions.
1 - If I want to do ortho residency, will I be at a disadvantage if I go to a D.O. school? I know D.O's have their own surgery residencies, but I really don't know their chances of getting into ortho compared to their MD counterparts. I don't want to be at a huge disadvantage by attending a D.O. school, however, at this point it is looking like I will be a much more competitive applicant for D.O. schools this year. If offered an acceptance to a D.O. school, should I take it and will I still have a decent shot at my dream specialty, or should I hold off for a year, possibly retake MCAT, and try to get into an MD school at all costs?
2 - Do you know anything about the military residencies for ortho? I'm wondering if I do the HPSP military scholarship if I will be able to apply for the military ortho residencies in addition to the D.O residencies and the M.D. residencies (broadening my options and chances on getting into an orthopedic residency?) Or will I just be limited to the military ortho residencies? (in which case that sounds like a detriment to getting in to an ortho residency).
Thank you for your help. I am an extremely hardworking student (although my MCAT is average currently), I feel I'm decently well-rounded and am a likeable / fairly-normal person (as you said earlier that is very important in getting into ortho residency as they try to weed out the crazies), I competed in Division 1 NCAA athletics (not sure if that helps at all in getting into an ortho residency but I think it helps me be well-rounded) and will really do whatever it takes to set myself up to get into an ortho residency. Your insight is very appreciated and helpful.
1 - If I want to do ortho residency, will I be at a disadvantage if I go to a D.O. school? I know D.O's have their own surgery residencies, but I really don't know their chances of getting into ortho compared to their MD counterparts. I don't want to be at a huge disadvantage by attending a D.O. school, however, at this point it is looking like I will be a much more competitive applicant for D.O. schools this year. If offered an acceptance to a D.O. school, should I take it and will I still have a decent shot at my dream specialty, or should I hold off for a year, possibly retake MCAT, and try to get into an MD school at all costs?
2 - Do you know anything about the military residencies for ortho? I'm wondering if I do the HPSP military scholarship if I will be able to apply for the military ortho residencies in addition to the D.O residencies and the M.D. residencies (broadening my options and chances on getting into an orthopedic residency?) Or will I just be limited to the military ortho residencies? (in which case that sounds like a detriment to getting in to an ortho residency).
Thank you for your help. I am an extremely hardworking student (although my MCAT is average currently), I feel I'm decently well-rounded and am a likeable / fairly-normal person (as you said earlier that is very important in getting into ortho residency as they try to weed out the crazies), I competed in Division 1 NCAA athletics (not sure if that helps at all in getting into an ortho residency but I think it helps me be well-rounded) and will really do whatever it takes to set myself up to get into an ortho residency. Your insight is very appreciated and helpful.
Glad you are interested!
1. Obviously there are avenues into Ortho from both the DO and MD routes. I am cartainly bias but I think the MD residencies open more doors for you in that they are better known places, and more academic. Many patients are simply more comfortable seeing MD after your name and seeing what they perceive as a more credible training pedigree. But, you can certainly become an orthodox as a DO and the routs are probably the same I. Terms of competition. You will need to be a top notch med stud
2. I don't know about this. Sorry
You sound like a good applicant. If things don't work out this year (they didn't for me my first year applying) keep at it.
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Out of curiousity, are there any routes into doing orthopedic surgeries if you don't do an Ortho residency?
Like, if someone loves Ortho but isn't competitive to match, could they do something like gen surg and then a fellowship in an Ortho-related field? I've heard of people doing that for like plastics and urology I think, but am not 100%
Like, if someone loves Ortho but isn't competitive to match, could they do something like gen surg and then a fellowship in an Ortho-related field? I've heard of people doing that for like plastics and urology I think, but am not 100%
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you can do hand after plastics, but if you're competitive enough to for plastics, you probably are for ortho too... not sure of any other routes
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You wrote earlier that you partially overcame a below average (for ortho) step 1 score with a fantastic step 2 score. Would you recommend sacrificing an away rotation month to do well on step 2 if my step 1 is below the ortho average? So instead of doing a home rotation and 2 aways, do a month at home, a month away, and a month to study and take step 2, not necessarily in that order.
Also, is there any value in doing an away rotation after ERAS is due? I wouldn't get a LOR out of it for my residency app, but maybe it would tip the scales for an interview at that location?
I haven't gotten my step score back yet, but my practice scores were right around the average so it could go either way. While I wait, I like having a plan B. Thanks in advance!
Also, is there any value in doing an away rotation after ERAS is due? I wouldn't get a LOR out of it for my residency app, but maybe it would tip the scales for an interview at that location?
I haven't gotten my step score back yet, but my practice scores were right around the average so it could go either way. While I wait, I like having a plan B. Thanks in advance!
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This is true. But I would not sacrifice an away rotation. Rather, consider taking step 2 early, before you do your 4th year Ortho rotations. I finished my 3rd year on medicine and it was perfect because i knew the most I possibly could at that point. Then it's behind you and you can just focus on your Ortho always without step2 looming over your head. Everyone I know who took step 2 early did very well.
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@RueTay What would you recommend to a M4 who wants to be well prepared for intern year of Ortho? Handbook of fxs, Netters Ortho anatomy, and Orthobullets seem to be popular answers, but is there any other resource you wish you had known about? Or any specific topics to be well-read up on? Thanks
Thanks for doing this RueTay. I am not interested in sculpting my body per se but I am interested in staying fit; I'm more into improving my acrobatics, for example handstands, gymnastic ring work etc. I know this is going to be a challenge during ortho residency and it is something that I would make a priority, but I was wondering how much time I would have for this during residency? If I only had time to train 3-4 days out of the week, how many of hours would I be able to contribute on those days? I know it depends on your rotation and thus it will vary.
As you have said in another post, I do like that you guys use physics. I like that type of problem solving and my love with MSK is what is pushing me towards ortho - along with it being hands on. However, I also want to give back to the poor considering I come from a poor background - do you feel that it would be possible to provide free/concierge services to poor patients in this specialty? Thanks in advance.
What do you think Medicaid is?
You will have a couple clinic days each week where you get done in the late afternoon. Then you have weekends after rounds. There is time. What you do on your time is up to you. You will probably study less and do less research than your peers if you make a big commitment to fitness. But hey, you be you.
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This thread is a 10/10 just from some of the questions asked. Wtf lololol.
Interesting point on not a lot of med in Ortho. That kind of turns me away from it. Is there a compromise on the spectrum between Gen Surg and Ortho?
Interesting point on not a lot of med in Ortho. That kind of turns me away from it. Is there a compromise on the spectrum between Gen Surg and Ortho?
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Uro and ENT seem to have the most balance between medicine and surgery imo
Yeah. Not so much medical management in ortho. We build it and fix it when it's broken or replace it. Others do the pluming, electrical, etc. if you want to spend your time thinking about and managing complex medical problems and chronic disease, ortho isn't for you. If you like fixing problems with your hands, good outcomes, improving quality of life, and having fun then think about ortho
I would recommend getting laid as much as possible, not studying for one minute, and traveling wherever you can afford. Last chance.
In residency and beyond your time off will be few and far between.
I can see the downside of studying less. With the exception of being genuinely interested in research what would the downside be of doing less research - making you less competitive for an academic position?
Another question that goes hand in hand with health and fitness: how much sleep do you get at your program?
Of course Medicaid covers tons but there are still those with any coverage, however this is a discussion for another time. Thanks again for responding.
Doing research is an important part of your orthopedic education. Even if you don't end up in academics it can improve your fellowship application. It also gets you to meetings where you can network. Clearly it's important if you want to do academics.
I get plenty of sleep when not oncall. Your body gets used to waking up early to round.
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Average is about 70. It's really to bad because nobody wins except the application service. If your app is great you can apply to fewer places. I think I ended up with around 26 interview offers and went on 16 interviews. It was brutal
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Just like med school or college the number is also dependent on your application and your level of risk tolerance. I myself applied to around 30 as did a few of my friends.
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Have you decided on your fellowship path? Or is it too early?
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Nah. Some of us don't decide until halfway through PGY 3, and rarely even start of PGY 4
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What advice do you guys have for a student interested in ortho who is very very average when it comes to current academic standing? I've made some upward progress as far as grades and standing in the class go since starting school (current M1) but am fairly confident that even with continuous improvement I'll probably never be top quartile and probably won't do much better than the average on STEP1. I'm interested in other things too but ortho is and always has been very appealing to me. Do I give up on that and not even bother with it or do you think I can still pursue that interest and find ways to make myself competitive assuming I do still have interest in ortho by the time it comes to apply? If the latter, what can I do to stand out in the face of grades/scores that would likely be on the low end of the spectrum among the others applying ortho?
Thanks in advance, and feel free to link me back if this type of question has already been answered previously in the thread.
Thanks in advance, and feel free to link me back if this type of question has already been answered previously in the thread.
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Why are you cutting yourself down so early in the game? Let it play out and see where you end up standings and Step wise, but I assure you that Step 1 is largely an exam of hard work. So get yourself a First Aid and go to town, it will make a significant difference. In the meantime, also involve yourself aggressively in the department with research projects etc.
With a 4AM-7PM schedule, how much sleep do you get per night?
Do you find time for hobbies outside of medicine?
How many hours per week do you want to work as a new attending?
Ortho seems amazing and interesting to me, but I don't know if I could take that grueling lifestyle
Do you find time for hobbies outside of medicine?
How many hours per week do you want to work as a new attending?
Ortho seems amazing and interesting to me, but I don't know if I could take that grueling lifestyle
I need 6 or 7 hrs of sleep and I get that. There is enough time for hobbies, friends, family, etc. but it's not every day. It's a lot easier now being a senior resident with fewer call responsibilities.
The number of hours new attendings work has too many variables to go through in detail including (specialty within ortho, private practice vs academics, how much call the job entails, how busy the practice is/#of patients in your clinic, etc). It just depends on how much you want or need or get to work in order to build the practice and make the $ you are looking for. Or how much your senior partners are dumping on you.
I plan on being as busy as I can be, within reason. The number of hours isnt really a good measure of this because if you are efficient you can see 50-60 patients from 8-5. If you aren't you may only be able to see 20 patients. Generally the busier your clinic is and the more call you take the more you get to operate. Obveously your ability to be efficient in the OR is important too. the case numbers and complexity that you tackle will also effect your hours, as will the efficiently of your OR staff.
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@RueTay I hear stories of stellar candidates with 250+ Step 1 and good research and high class rank getting rejected from ortho. As a current M1 that's barely in the bottom 75% of their class (I still have time and I shouldn't stress about the rank now, plus M3 at my school is weighted more than 2x M1 and M2 combined or so I've been told), how worried should I be and what can I do to make sure I'm a successful applicant? I'm hoping to hop on a summer research project with an ortho surgeon at my school so we'll see how that goes, but anything else?
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I'm not RueTay but since I'm a bit closer in time to the match process, I'll take the liberty of tackling this one. Your stories are real.
This being said, there's nothing to worry about yet. Do the project, see if this is actually something you'd be into, and otherwise just have a good time in med school. Too many variables right now to get worked up about things.
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A light-hearted question: what's the "ortho personality type"?
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How often do you get to practice your baseball swing?
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Is a high step score going to be okay if you're at the middle or lower half of your class?
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