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Osteopathic clinicals? Please Explain.

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by tiffsatt, May 29, 2000.

  1. tiffsatt

    tiffsatt Member 10+ Year Member

    94
    0
    May 3, 2000
    monroe, MI, USA
    Why have I read so many posts stating that students don't like the clinical osteopathic experience that they receive at certain schools. The ones who have stated that they don't like their experience are the ones that have had to set up there own rotations or preceptorships. I am worried that I will get stuck doing this and following a Doctor rather than learning something. Any suggestions....
     
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  3. Doc777

    Doc777 Junior Member 10+ Year Member

    19
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    Aug 9, 1999
    East Lansing, MI
    Who's been saying that? What school do they go to? I go to the D.O. school at MSU, and most of our junior and senior students are very happy with their clinical rotations. I also have spoken with some students from the New England school, and they are quite pleased as well.

    I think it's irresponsible for you to refer to a few students disgust with their clinical rotations as a problem with the "osteopathic clinical experience" in general. If these students are disappointed with their clinical rotations, than this a problem with their particular school's administration, and not a problem with the osteopathic clinical experience. D.O's are being accepted into mainstream allopathic post-graduate training programs left and right, so I don't think there is a gross deficiency in the osteopathic clinical training programs. Granted, some schools do have problems with student placement during their clinical curriculum, but considering the amount of D.O's excelling in major ACGME programs, the osteopathic colleges must be doing something right.

    With regard to picking your own rotation, this can be a good and a bad thing.
    Its good because it gives you the power to chose, and to go where you want. This is only an advantage if your fimiliar with the hospital systems you have the chose from. If your unfimiliar with the hospitals, than the choice becomes radom, and you may potentially and unknowingly make a bad choice. My personal preference is that I would LOVE the opportunity to chose my rotations, but only because I'm very fimiliar with the Michigan hospital system. So, the power of choice is not necessarily a bad thing.

    If your concerned about your particular school, I would suggest that you talk to MORE THAN ONE student, and get a variety of imput with regard to that institution's clinical training. Also do your own research, and if you have an opportunity, visit the hospital(s), and speak with residents and/or interns.

    With regard to what you said about "following a doctor and not learning anything," I recently completed a preceptorship where all I did was follow the physician from room to room, and it was a tremendous learning experience. He also gave me the green light to do any procedure I felt comfortable doing. Following a Doc around is NOT a bad thing, and it can be an enlightening experience, especially for a second-year med student. Its only a bad experience to the passive learner, someone who needs everything spelled in black and white, and who can't learn from observation. Students of that breed should not be in medicine in the first place.

    Thats my two cents. [​IMG]
    Regards

    Doc777
    MSUCOM
    Class of 2002
     
  4. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    197
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    Mar 7, 2000
    Sweet Home Alabama
    Doc777,

    Your comments sound rather absurd. To claim that the quality of the osteopathic clinical education is excellent based on how many students place into ACGME residencies is both offensive and ludicrous. You are in fact saying that the education is so good that osteopathic students decide to pursue ACGME programs instead of finishing their training in an osteopathic teaching hospital. Why not point out that over half of osteopathic students decide to continue their training in AOA approved programs. I agree that the quality of clinical education at most osteopathic schools is on par with other medical schools, but disagree with your assumptions regarding ACMGE residecy programs.
     
  5. Kent Ray

    Kent Ray Member 10+ Year Member

    88
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    Oct 24, 1999
    ferndale, Mi, US
    DOC 777,
    Yes Kent Ray is my real name. I love the Osteopathic profession but have many problems with the clinical years. Let me say that I will be graduating from DMU-OMC in two days. I am starting a Transitional year residency at Bi-county/Henry Ford. This is a internship that is approved by the AOA and AMA. I do half my time at Henry Ford and Half at Bi -County. After that I plan on going to the University of Iowa.
    You have to be a first or second year student. If you were a third or fourth year your tone would be different.
    Osteopathic Clinical education has a long way to go, yes even in Michigan. I have rotated through several Hospitals their and by far, without question, the best is Henry Ford (an allopathic hospital).
    Here is our problem. First of all we are only associated with community hospitals which is not all bad. The bad thing is that at university hospitals the DRs are paid by the hospital and are not private docs. This makes a huge difference in the amount of teaching time you get. All the docs at Osteopathic hospitals are private and are not paid to teach (very few exceptions). Therefore they do not teach as much. Let me give an example, at Bi county and Mt. Clemens you have morning report and noon lecture. You round on your patients in the moring and then wait till after lunch to round with the attending. Five months at Bi county a doc only set down with me once for about 10 min. At Henry Ford the attendings would set down with me at least 1-2 hours per day. Quite a difference!
    Please don't give me all this crap about how it is up to you how much you learn and your education depends on your attitude. This is all true, but you will learn much more with the same attitude when you have a coach.
    I am not bashing the Ostopathic profession, only tring to make you aware.
     
  6. tiffsatt

    tiffsatt Member 10+ Year Member

    94
    0
    May 3, 2000
    monroe, MI, USA
    Kent Ray,

    Well thanks for making me aware! Doc 77 seems to think that I was also bashing the Osteopathic Profession which I wasn't! I am only concerned about my clinical experience that I would be receiving. I am still doing my undergrad but I am trying to decide on where to apply and that is one of my concerns. I am not sure which I would prefer, setting up my own rotations or having it set up with doctors who are used to teaching students. If I go out of state, I won't be familiar with any of the hospitals so how would I be able to set up a rotation?

    Tiff
     
  7. Doc777

    Doc777 Junior Member 10+ Year Member

    19
    0
    Aug 9, 1999
    East Lansing, MI
    Dr. Ray

    Your observation of my "tone" was correct. I am a second-year student, begining year three in September. Maybe I am a bit unaware of the true happenings in the clinical world, but this is what this forum, and the education process in general is all about. I only speak of what I've know, and what I've heard. Since I haven't experience any clinical rotations yet, maybe I am over stepping my bounds by commenting on the topic. My final opinion will not be determined by someone else, but will be determined by my own experiences and practice. I appreciate your comments, and I will keep them in mind.

    Doc777

     

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