Osteopathic DO friendly Psychiatry Residency Programs

[MiddleRoad]

Oregon seems to be taking more DOs each year.

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[fmerchant]

Please add Pine Rest Christian Mental Health Services to the Dual Boarded DO Programs list. Not sure if they allow DO applicants to apply through both matches or not. They are establishing their inaugural class in July 2014.

 

[kassy]

updated

 

[Dharma]

So the list says that Rowan SOM (formerly UMDNJ-SOM) is in the process of becoming dually accredited. Anyone know how legit that is and/or have any inside scoop of timeframe?

 

[JamesPhilly]

So the list says that Rowan SOM (formerly UMDNJ-SOM) is in the process of becoming dually accredited. Anyone know how legit that is and/or have any inside scoop of timeframe?

they were dually accredited and then lost it. When I interviewed there last year, they said there wasn't any point, and that it was just extra cost/headache for them.

I agree with the other poster, unless it's documented, I would consider them AOA only

 

[Dharma]

Roger that. Thanks for the info guys!

 

[Yousarrian]

When I interviewed at Rowan recently, it was confirmed that it was AOA. They also seem to love graduates of their New Jersey DO schools.

 

[rkaz]

MCW takes DOs with COMLEX only. I just wanted to clarify that, since it was unclear from the original post.

 

[Kel1234]

Hi,

I am a 4th year DO. I am interested in applying to these psychiatry residency programs (Below). I got a 253 on the USMLE and I've gotten all honors or high passes on my rotations. . I really really want to end up in California because my whole family lives there and I'm from SoCal. What do you think my chances are? Any feedback would be soooooo helpful! I am super nervous about it!

Thank you!

• UCLA-Kern

• Kaiser Permanente Southern California Program

• University of California (San Francisco)/Fresno Program

• Loma Linda-Inland Empire Consortium for Healthcare Education Program

• UCLA Medical Center Program

• Kaweah Delta's Graduate Medical Education

• University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center Program

• UCLA-San Fernando Valley/VA Greater Los Angeles Program

• University of California (Irvine) Program

• University of California (Davis) Health System Program

• University of California (San Diego) Program

• California Pacific Medical Center Program

• University of California (San Francisco) Program

• San Mateo County Behavioral Health and Recovery Services Program

• Stanford University Program

• Los Angeles County-Harbor-UCLA Medical Center Program

• Kaweah Delta Health Care District (KDHCD) Program

• Banner Good Samaritan Medical Center Program

• University of Arizona Program

• University of Arizona College of Medicine at South Campus Program

• Maricopa Medical Center Program

• University of Hawaii Program

• University of Nevada School of Medicine (Las Vegas) Program

• Oregon Health & Science University Program

• Samaritan Health Services - Corvallis Program

• University of Colorado Program

• University of New Mexico Program

 

[digitlnoize]

Hi,

I am a 4th year DO. I am interested in applying to these psychiatry residency programs (Below). I got a 253 on the USMLE and I've gotten all honors or high passes on my rotations. . I really really want to end up in California because my whole family lives there and I'm from SoCal. What do you think my chances are? Any feedback would be soooooo helpful! I am super nervous about it!

Thank you!

I can't speak for a lot of those (I didn't apply out here and have never looked into it)...but I can say that you'd be very competitive at Loma Linda (classmate from DO school matched there), and for U New Mexico, at least. Probably get a Denver interview. I don't know enough about the others to make a prediction.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I would say likely,

UCLA-Kern
Kaiser Permanente Southern California Program
Kaweah Delta's Graduate Medical Education
Kaweah Delta Health Care District (KDHCD) Program
Maricopa Medical Center Program
University of Nevada School of Medicine (Las Vegas) Program
Loma Linda-Inland Empire Consortium for Healthcare Education Program
Banner Good Samaritan Medical Center Program

Somewhat less likely,

University of Arizona Program
University of Arizona College of Medicine at South Campus Program
Samaritan Health Services - Corvallis Program
University of New Mexico Program

Harder, but may be in reach,

University of California (San Francisco)/Fresno Program
UCLA-San Fernando Valley/VA Greater Los Angeles Program
Los Angeles County-Harbor-UCLA Medical Center Program
California Pacific Medical Center Program
San Mateo County Behavioral Health and Recovery Services Program
University of Hawaii Program

Don’t know, but doubt it,

Oregon Health & Science University Program
University of Colorado Program
University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center Program
University of California (Davis) Health System Program
University of California (Irvine) Program

Close to impossible,

University of California (San Diego) Program
University of California (San Francisco) Program
Stanford University Program
UCLA Medical Center Program

You shouldn't sell yourself short just because of what we say. You should have some from every category. If it is where you like and it is what you would like, apply. So what if it is a long shot.

 

[st2205]

Somewhat less likely,

University of Arizona Program
University of Arizona College of Medicine at South Campus Program
Samaritan Health Services - Corvallis Program
University of New Mexico Program

Yikes. All of those are very reasonable, especially based on numbers. In fact, one of them is actually a DO program.

 

[CrileDO]

Did you guys do audition/away rotations in Psych as a DO student?

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Let me take a stab at the likelihood of DO acceptance if I may here in CA:
(Within each category the schools are not ranked, just lumped into these quartiles)

You've Got A Shot DOs:

California Pacific Medical Center Program
UCLA-Kern
USC (University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center Program)
Kaiser Permanente Southern California Program
Kaweah Delta's Graduate Medical Education
Kaweah Delta Health Care District (KDHCD) Program
Loma Linda-Inland Empire Consortium for Healthcare Education Program

Hard to Get In as DO:

UC-Davis
UCI (all the MDs who want to move back to Orange County apply here)
UCLA-SFValley

Much Much Harder to Get In as DO (even competitive among MDs):
(These onward represent the most desirable programs in CA)

UCSD (research powerhouse in a most beautiful setting)
UCSF-Fresno (ties to UCSF - big draw)
UCLA-Harbor (the county powerhouse with direct UCLA ties - top training)
San Mateo (cush call, small program, they attract competitive applicants)
Stanford (it's Stanford - huge name)

Nearly Impossible (very very competitive among MDs):

UCLA-NPI (the research powerhouse of the UCLA programs)
UCSF (it's UCSF - unlimited opportunities)

 

[Nasrudin]

Let me take a stab at the likelihood of DO acceptance if I may here in CA:

You've Got A Shot DOs:

California Pacific Medical Center Program
UCLA-Kern
USC (University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center Program)
Kaiser Permanente Southern California Program
Kaweah Delta's Graduate Medical Education
Kaweah Delta Health Care District (KDHCD) Program
Loma Linda-Inland Empire Consortium for Healthcare Education Program

Hard to Get In as DO:

UC-Davis
UCI (all the MDs who want to move back to Orange County apply here)
UCLA-SFValley

Much Much Harder to Get In as DO (even competitive among MDs):
(These onward represent the most desirable programs in CA)

UCSD (research powerhouse in a most beautiful setting)
UCSF-Fresno (ties to UCSF - big draw)
UCLA-Harbor (the county powerhouse with direct UCLA ties - top training)
San Mateo (cush call, small program, they attract competitive applicants)

Nearly Impossible (very very competitive among MDs):

UCSF (it's UCSF - unlimited opportunities)
UCLA-NPI (the research powerhouse of the UCLA programs)
Stanford (it's Stanford - huge name)

I think you've ranked UCD and CPMC too low and UCSF-Fresno too high in your competition schematic. Otherwise I agree.

 

[Nasrudin]

Here's my estimation of competitiveness of CA programs regardless of your degree ranked least to most:

UCLA-Kern
Kaiser-SoCal
Kaweah Delta
Loma Linda

USC
UCLA-SFV
CPMC
UC-Davis
UCI

UCLA-Harbor
San Mateo
UCSD
Stanford

UCLA-NPI
UCSF

 

[notdeadyet]

I think Nasrudin is about right with his list. It's tough with quartile's because a couple don't quite mesh in the same category (in the second grouping, in terms of competitiveness, UC Davis > UCI / USC > UCLA-SFV and Stanford >> UCLA Harbor/UCSD).

 

[notdeadyet]

I also wonder if threads like this play to folks insecurities in a way that's unhealthy. I agree with Nasrudin that the term "DO friendly" sometime misrepresents the issue. Competitive programs favor applicants from good schools and taken as a whole, allopathic med schools are viewed more favorably than osteopathic med schools by allopathic psych residencies. But competitive doesn't make them DO unfriendly. They are just competitive and that makes it harder on osteopathic grads, IMGs, and folks from the lower tier allopathic medical schools.

But I wonder how many actually closed doors there are. If you had a list of psych programs that absolutely refused to consider DOs, I have a hunch that would be a very short list. And THAT list would be much more helpful than gauging "friendliness."

My advice to DO med students out there would be to apply to programs that interest you and that you feel are within your reach. If you're a competitive applicant, apply to competitive programs. And if your application is strong enough, I certainly wouldn't rule out programs by scanning recent residents because I didn't see any DOs (by that technique, an allopathic grad from, say, University of Arkansas would rule out many California programs, which wouldn't be smart). UCSF is arguably the most competitive psych program in California and for years folks on this very forum gave the advice that DOs shouldn't bother applying. But low and behold, people ignored this advice, DOs applied anyway, and UCSF has DOs right now in its psych residency.

It brings to mind a poem I always had on the wall of my elementary school classroom when I used to teach, by the lovely Shel Silverstein:

“Listen to the mustn'ts, child.
Listen to the don'ts.
Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts.
Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me...
Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

 

[Nasrudin]

I also wonder if threads like this play to folks insecurities in a way that's unhealthy. I agree with Nasrudin that the term "DO friendly" sometime misrepresents the issue. Competitive programs favor applicants from good schools and taken as a whole, allopathic med schools are viewed more favorably than osteopathic med schools by allopathic psych residencies. But competitive doesn't make them DO unfriendly. They are just competitive and that makes it harder on osteopathic grads, IMGs, and folks from the lower tier allopathic medical schools.

But I wonder how many actually closed doors there are. If you had a list of psych programs that absolutely refused to consider DOs, I have a hunch that would be a very short list. And THAT list would be much more helpful than gauging "friendliness."

My advice to DO med students out there would be to apply to programs that interest you and that you feel are within your reach. If you're a competitive applicant, apply to competitive programs. And if your application is strong enough, I certainly wouldn't rule out programs by scanning recent residents because I didn't see any DOs (by that technique, an allopathic grad from, say, University of Arkansas would rule out many California programs, which wouldn't be smart). UCSF is arguably the most competitive psych program in California and for years folks on this very forum gave the advice that DOs shouldn't bother applying. But low and behold, people ignored this advice, DOs applied anyway, and UCSF has DOs right now in its psych residency.

It brings to mind a poem I always had on the wall of my elementary school classroom when I used to teach, by the lovely Shel Silverstein:

“Listen to the mustn'ts, child.
Listen to the don'ts.
Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts.
Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me...
Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

Great post!

Your school has a complex array of probabilities and possibilities associated with it that are too complex to predict. It helps to have names on your application that are known to a highly competitive CA program. And it helps to be from a school of high repute, DO or MD alike. It might help to prove yourself on an away. Beyond that there's you and if they like you and you're an accomplished, desirable applicant you've got a puncher's chance at anything in psych.

 

[rkaz]

I know DOs who matched at Stanford and UCSF-Fresno... though these people are in Family med, not psychiatry.

I really like NDY's comments. It was actually the approach I took when I applied. I applied to places I wanted to go or that I had heard good things about. Sure, I probably wasted money applying to some of the high tiered programs, as my application wasn't competitive... but I don't have regrets. I got interviews at several so-called 'upper mid-tier' programs (that I never would have expected based on my competitiveness) and even ended up matching into one of them. I saw many applicants on the interview trail (who seemed to have a much stronger application than I did) sell themselves too short, saying that they didn't apply to a certain place because they didn't think they'd have a shot there. If I had been too intimidated to apply to the program in the first place... it would have been my loss, and another applicant's gain. Although I did not match into California, I'm stoked about the place I'm going and thankful they saw something good in me besides the numbers.

 

[slappy]

Don’t know, but doubt it,

Oregon Health & Science University Program
University of Colorado Program
University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center Program
University of California (Davis) Health System Program
University of California (Irvine) Program

OHSU doesn't belong in that group. They actually have a lot of DOs now.

You shouldn't sell yourself short just because of what we say. You should have some from every category. If it is where you like and it is what you would like, apply. So what if it is a long shot.

This. It's just a few extra dollars!

I think Nasrudin is about right with his list. It's tough with quartile's because a couple don't quite mesh in the same category (in the second grouping, in terms of competitiveness, UC Davis > UCI / USC > UCLA-SFV and Stanford >> UCLA Harbor/UCSD).

Did you get the direction of the arrows wrong?

 

[notdeadyet]

Did you get the direction of the arrows wrong?

I have no idea. 'Puters are a second language to me.

My intent was to say that UC Davis is typically more competitive than UCI and USC which are more competitive (though likely marginally) than UCLA-SFV. And also that Stanford is more competitive than UCLA Harbor or UCSD.

These kinds of lists are fun but not all that useful. Programs aren't really competitive in and of themselves as much as they are in context of a particular applicant. There are some applicants that would find it much harder to match at UCLA Harbor than Stanford (if they were research focused but interested more in tech and little background/exposure to the underserved and county populations). That's why it's best to apply to places that interest you and let the chips fall.

I also notice that folks can get a bit vested in how competitive their program is, even though it's no reflection of them. I think it's more acute of folks vested in prestige.

 

[Nasrudin]

I have no idea. 'Puters are a second language to me.

My intent was to say that UC Davis is typically more competitive than UCI and USC which are more competitive (though likely marginally) than UCLA-SFV. And also that Stanford is more competitive than UCLA Harbor or UCSD.

These kinds of lists are fun but not all that useful. Programs aren't really competitive in and of themselves as much as they are in context of a particular applicant. There are some applicants that would find it much harder to match at UCLA Harbor than Stanford (if they were research focused but interested more in tech and little background/exposure to the underserved and county populations). That's why it's best to apply to places that interest you and let the chips fall.

I also notice that folks can get a bit vested in how competitive their program is, even though it's no reflection of them. I think it's more acute of folks vested in prestige.

Excellent point regarding how contextual it is to the applicant. I actually think programs do a great job at this given the number of files they get inundated with. I felt very competitive at all of my top post interview ranks--a large portion of which is the skill of programs picking a good match for both of us. They do have more experience at it than us.

Also another good point you made was that it doesn't reflect on you. And that you can become the psychiatrist you want to be from any of these programs.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

My rank list is just for lumping into 4 quartiles - the programs are not ranked within each quartile. I modified a ranking or two based on more thorough reflection.

Notdeadyet makes a salient point. Basically, it's competitive at the top 5 or 8 CA programs and it comes down to fit. The research guru won't make an ideal match at UCLA Harbor, so may not get ranked as highly there. The no-research applicant won't be ranked highly at UCSD probably. But both will be strong applicants with impressive backgrounds, sometimes very impressive backgrounds. A former pediatrician went to UCSD's program, a former surgeon went to Harbor's program... I bet this happens at places like UCSF and UCLA-NPI and Stanford too.

 

[dwilber]

I just wanted to add that Tufts (in Boston) is quite DO-friendly these days. To my knowledge, all of the DOs have taken the USMLE, however. There are two in the rising fourth year class, three in the rising third year class, three in the rising second year class, and there will be 2 (I think) incoming interns. Just another program to consider!

 

[letsgomedical]

What would be a minimum comlex score required for acgme psychiatry programs??

 

[OldPsychDoc]

What would be a minimum comlex score required for acgme psychiatry programs??

Passing.

 

[letsgomedical]

Passing.

Thank you
So as long as I got above 400 I shouldn't be freaking out??
I didn't do well on comlex (below average.....) and was getting really worried

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Thank you
So as long as I got above 400 I shouldn't be freaking out??
I didn't do well on comlex (below average.....) and was getting really worried

I wouldn't say that you'd be guaranteed an interview everyplace you might like--but many DO-accepting programs will just be looking for a pass.

 

[letsgomedical]

I wouldn't say that you'd be guaranteed an interview everyplace you might like--but many DO-accepting programs will just be looking for a pass.

I am planning to apply broadly to 50+ places (considering that there is virtually no aoa psych programs I will have to apply acgme) to mid-low tier acgme programs.... I certainly have a program I want to go to but as long as I match I will be happy.

 

[Dr.W]

FYI, UT-Southwestern is DO friendly but you need to have USMLE. If you have any questions, PM me.
~Dr.W

 

[Dr.W]

Also, I'd reiterate to apply everywhere you actually want to go. Who cares if it's "competitive".

 

[microshar88]

Saw that Loma Linda and UCLA-SVF have a few D.O.s. Both require USMLE though.

Loma Linda does not require USMLE according to their website.

If one applied to a program that's dually acredited via the AOA match, can they switch over to the ACGME match?

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

The AOA match is before the ACGME match. If you match into an AOA program, you are contracted to go. If you don't match AOA, you are free to use the ACGME match. You may not match into both and then pick one.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

Loma Linda does not require USMLE according to their website.

If one applied to a program that's dually acredited via the AOA match, can they switch over to the ACGME match?

This is program dependent so you'd need to ask the program.

 

[microshar88]

Thanks for the feedback guys! This whole AOA & ACGME separate match thing is a real headache!

 

[schwartz]

While we're on this again, the University of Maryland/Sheppard Pratt is DO-friendly and accepts COMLEX.

I can confirm this as well. UMD Sheppard Pratt is definitely DO and IMG friendly. The PD's a bit vile though.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Somewhat less likely,

University of Arizona Program
University of Arizona College of Medicine at South Campus Program

Really? Half their class is DO and Carib.

http://psychiatry.arizona.edu/academic-programs/ua-psychiatry-residency/current-residents

 

[budda10000]

It is difficult to say that there is no DO programs in Psych. In California based on my research UCLA main and UCD are nearly impossible(no DO's at all except as fellows). All the Other UC's have taken DO's in recent years(even UCSF main) and I even took the time to contact some of them and found that most were exceptional in some way, though not always in numbers. The prior poster w/ a USMLE of 250+ is extremely competitive so long as they have other things besides scores, that is a resume that would quite likely fetch AOA status in the MD arena. So far as LLU and UCSF fresno, well with a 250 on your step you can do much better. If you have good numbers(lots of honors/UMLE >240), research pubs, good letters, and at least a few leadership positions I would say you stand a very good chance at placing in one of the top 20 programs. There just aren't that many stellar applicant in psyche to begin with so any very talented individuals will be sought after.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

It is difficult to say that there is no DO programs in Psych. In California based on my research UCLA main and UCD are nearly impossible(no DO's at all except as fellows). All the Other UC's have taken DO's in recent years(even UCSF main) and I even took the time to contact some of them and found that most were exceptional in some way, though not always in numbers. The prior poster w/ a USMLE of 250+ is extremely competitive so long as they have other things besides scores, that is a resume that would quite likely fetch AOA status in the MD arena. So far as LLU and UCSF fresno, well with a 250 on your step you can do much better. If you have good numbers(lots of honors/UMLE >240), research pubs, good letters, and at least a few leadership positions I would say you stand a very good chance at placing in one of the top 20 programs. There just aren't that many stellar applicant in psyche to begin with so any very talented individuals will be sought after.

Most of us need rotations there as well, fwiw

 

[Dharma]

It is difficult to say that there is no DO programs in Psych. In California based on my research UCLA main and UCD are nearly impossible(no DO's at all except as fellows). All the Other UC's have taken DO's in recent years(even UCSF main) and I even took the time to contact some of them and found that most were exceptional in some way, though not always in numbers. The prior poster w/ a USMLE of 250+ is extremely competitive so long as they have other things besides scores, that is a resume that would quite likely fetch AOA status in the MD arena. So far as LLU and UCSF fresno, well with a 250 on your step you can do much better. If you have good numbers(lots of honors/UMLE >240), research pubs, good letters, and at least a few leadership positions I would say you stand a very good chance at placing in one of the top 20 programs. There just aren't that many stellar applicant in psyche to begin with so any very talented individuals will be sought after.

Are you responding to anyone in particular here or just trying to convey general info for the DO applicant?

 

[DrMeowMeow]

Does anyone know which Texas programs are DO-friendly/COMLEX-accepting besides the one in Fort Worth?

 

[serimeri]

Does anyone know which Texas programs are DO-friendly/COMLEX-accepting besides the one in Fort Worth?

I think Galveston went unfilled this year, but I don't know if they are DO friendly for Psych though.

 

[Dharma]

Does anyone know which Texas programs are DO-friendly/COMLEX-accepting besides the one in Fort Worth?

UT-HSC San Antonio.

 

[st2205]

Does anyone know which Texas programs are DO-friendly/COMLEX-accepting besides the one in Fort Worth?

I don't think any are "DO-unfriendly." UTSW is the most competitive, but I believe they've taken DOs. I'm certain all the others take DOs. We have a number in our program.

 

[DrMeowMeow]

Any updates to this thread that anyone knows of?

 

[updog]

(deleted)

 

[Roxas]

I don't think any are "DO-unfriendly." UTSW is the most competitive, but I believe they've taken DOs. I'm certain all the others take DOs. We have a number in our program.

If I'm interested in some of the other Texas psych programs (San Antonio, Austin, JPS, Lubbock) does not taking USMLE put me at a significant disadvantage? I just don't know how competitive psych in Texas is outside of UTSW. I'm worried I might not do so well on comlex and unsure if it's worth it to take both.

 

[Dharma]

If I'm interested in some of the other Texas psych programs (San Antonio, Austin, JPS, Lubbock) does not taking USMLE put me at a significant disadvantage? I just don't know how competitive psych in Texas is outside of UTSW. I'm worried I might not do so well on comlex and unsure if it's worth it to take both.

I know of folks at the San Antonio program who only took COMLEX.

 

[st2205]

If I'm interested in some of the other Texas psych programs (San Antonio, Austin, JPS, Lubbock) does not taking USMLE put me at a significant disadvantage? I just don't know how competitive psych in Texas is outside of UTSW. I'm worried I might not do so well on comlex and unsure if it's worth it to take both.

I would imagine COMLEX only would be fine from any of those. I only applied to San Antonio and interviewed there without USMLE. Didn't apply to the others, but JPS is a DO program and Lubbock is mostly IMGs and FMGs.