Osteopathic EM programs

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by nutka1111, Sep 27, 2009.

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  1. FirefighterDoc

    FirefighterDoc MS-4 7+ Year Member

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  3. txny1

    txny1

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  4. KNP

    KNP 2+ Year Member

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    Henry Ford Allegiance - Jackson, MI
     
  5. scribbler90

    scribbler90

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    Do you know if they wait till after you do your audition at HF Allegiance before they give you an interview? I rotate there for a couple weeks in November and I haven't gotten an invite yet.
     
  6. FirefighterDoc

    FirefighterDoc MS-4 7+ Year Member

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    Don't know if this helps, but I just came from an audition there in September and got an invite a day or two ago.


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  7. scribbler90

    scribbler90

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    I appreciate it but I tend to think that's when everyone got one....I emailed Debie and she said the audition may play a role in an invite but some people get it before. I guess it wouldnt matter other than the fact I'm taking 2 weeks out of my vacation time to do the audition :/ I just emailed the PD to reexpress my interest and let him know I'm auditioning. I guess I'll still do it I just hope I'm not giving up my vacation for nothing. :-/
     
  8. FirefighterDoc

    FirefighterDoc MS-4 7+ Year Member

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    Einstein - Philadelphia, PA
    Good Samaritan - West Islip, NY
    Beaumont Oakwood - Trenton, MI
    UH Regional Hospital - Richmond Heights, OH
    Cape Fear Valley - Fayetteville, NC
    Henry Ford Wyandotte - Wyandotte, MI
    Desert Regional Medical Center - Palm Springs, CA
    Henry Ford Allegiance - Jackson, MI
    Genesys - Grand Blanc, MI
     
  9. afrizbiegal48

    afrizbiegal48 2+ Year Member

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    Henry Ford Wyandotte - Wyandotte, MI
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  10. scribbler90

    scribbler90

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    UH Regional Hospital - Richmond Heights, OH
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  11. Al2O3

    Al2O3

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  12. EverybodyLies99

    EverybodyLies99

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    Hey Everyone,

    How hard would it be to switch from A categorical FM/psych specialty to EM after intern year?
     
  13. FirefighterDoc

    FirefighterDoc MS-4 7+ Year Member

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    I'll bite. Hard. Not very many spots open for EM like that. You'd need someone to leave their program which is rare. If you want EM, just go for EM. That'll give you your best chance. That route is like a 1% chance.


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  14. Kuba

    Kuba 10+ Year Member

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    I disagree, not sure what experience or sources FirefighterDoc is going by. Not the appropriate thread, but it is not that hard. I switched after 2 years of surgery and got plenty of interviews, ultimately signing to an osteopathic EM program outside the match in December (after deciding to switch in October.) You will have to redo some time, but will likely get some credit for rotations already completed. Just apply like the MS4's to any program. You can also look for vacancies in current programs on SAEM.org, though most, not all, will require some previous EM training.
     
  15. OSUguy17

    OSUguy17

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    Does anyone know when Lehigh is sending out interview invites?
     
  16. KNP

    KNP 2+ Year Member

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    Arrowhead - Colton, CA
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    Inspira Health Network Program - Vineland, NJ
    St Barnabas - Bronx, NY
    Doctors Hospital - Columbus, OH
    St. Vincents - Erie, PA
    Arnot Health- Elmira, NY
    Lakeland Health- St Joseph, MI
    Adena Health Systems - Chillicothe, OH
    St. Mary's- Livonia, MI
    Ohio Valley- Wheeling, WV
    Aria - Philadelphia, PA
    Kent Hospital - Warwick, RI
    St. John - Westlake, OH
    MWU/CCOM - Chicago, IL
    McLaren Oakland - Pontiac, MI
    Memorial Hospital - York, PA
    Orange Regional - Middletown, NY
    Rowan Kennedy - Stratford, NJ
    Mercy Health - Muskegon, MI
    Beaumont-Farmington (Formerly Botsford) - Farmington Hills, Mi
    Einstein - Philadelphia, PA
    Good Samaritan - West Islip, NY
    Beaumont Oakwood - Trenton, MI
    UH Regional Hospital - Richmond Heights, OH
    Cape Fear Valley - Fayetteville, NC
    Henry Ford Wyandotte - Wyandotte, MI
    Desert Regional Medical Center - Palm Springs, CA
    Henry Ford Allegiance - Jackson, MI
    Genesys - Grand Blanc, MI
    Memorial Hospital - Marietta, OH
    St. Elizabeth's- Boardman, OH
    McLaren Macomb - Mount Clemens, MI
    St. John Providence Health System - Madison Heights, MI
     
  17. KNP

    KNP 2+ Year Member

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    Arrowhead - Colton, CA
    ProMedica Monroe - Monroe, MI
    Southeastern Health - Lumberton, NC
    Inspira Health Network Program - Vineland, NJ
    St Barnabas - Bronx, NY
    Doctors Hospital - Columbus, OH
    St. Vincents - Erie, PA
    Arnot Health- Elmira, NY
    Lakeland Health- St Joseph, MI
    Adena Health Systems - Chillicothe, OH
    St. Mary's- Livonia, MI
    Ohio Valley- Wheeling, WV
    Aria - Philadelphia, PA
    Kent Hospital - Warwick, RI
    St. John - Westlake, OH
    MWU/CCOM - Chicago, IL
    McLaren Oakland - Pontiac, MI
    Memorial Hospital - York, PA
    Orange Regional - Middletown, NY
    Rowan Kennedy - Stratford, NJ
    Mercy Health - Muskegon, MI
    Beaumont-Farmington (Formerly Botsford) - Farmington Hills, Mi
    Einstein - Philadelphia, PA
    Good Samaritan - West Islip, NY
    Beaumont Oakwood - Trenton, MI
    UH Regional Hospital - Richmond Heights, OH
    Cape Fear Valley - Fayetteville, NC
    Henry Ford Wyandotte - Wyandotte, MI
    Desert Regional Medical Center - Palm Springs, CA
    Henry Ford Allegiance - Jackson, MI
    Genesys - Grand Blanc, MI
    Memorial Hospital - Marietta, OH
    St. Elizabeth's- Boardman, OH
    McLaren Macomb - Mount Clemens, MI
    St. John Providence Health System - Madison Heights, MI
    Lehigh Valley - Bethlehem, PA
     
  18. KNP

    KNP 2+ Year Member

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    I just got one from them today.
     
  19. FirefighterDoc

    FirefighterDoc MS-4 7+ Year Member

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    I'm sorry if I gave any misinformation, that was not my intent. That is just what I've heard through perusing these forums. Anecdotally I have met one person who did this. Thank you for clarifying Kuba.


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  20. Al2O3

    Al2O3

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    Adena Health Systems - Chillicothe, OH
    St. Mary's- Livonia, MI
    Ohio Valley- Wheeling, WV
    Aria - Philadelphia, PA
    Kent Hospital - Warwick, RI
    St. John - Westlake, OH
    MWU/CCOM - Chicago, IL
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    Memorial Hospital - York, PA
    Orange Regional - Middletown, NY
    Rowan Kennedy - Stratford, NJ
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    Beaumont-Farmington (Formerly Botsford) - Farmington Hills, Mi
    Einstein - Philadelphia, PA
    Good Samaritan - West Islip, NY
    Beaumont Oakwood - Trenton, MI
    UH Regional Hospital - Richmond Heights, OH
    Cape Fear Valley - Fayetteville, NC
    Henry Ford Wyandotte - Wyandotte, MI
    Desert Regional Medical Center - Palm Springs, CA
    Henry Ford Allegiance - Jackson, MI
    Genesys - Grand Blanc, MI
    Memorial Hospital - Marietta, OH
    St. Elizabeth's- Boardman, OH
    McLaren Macomb - Mount Clemens, MI
    St. John Providence Health System - Madison Heights, MI
    Lehigh Valley - Bethlehem, PA
    Integris SW Medical Center - Oklahoma City, OK
     
  21. xj67x

    xj67x 5+ Year Member

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    so the people who are getting 15> interviews are you planning on going to them all or are you denying them? Cause I know a lot of people who haven't gotten an interview yet. Are you all hoarding them? Not trying to be an ass. But I have gotten a few and I've been denying the ones I don't want to go to, to give others a chance. Just wondering if everyone else is doing the same
     
  22. This Guy

    This Guy 2+ Year Member

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    Doing the same
     
  23. OSUguy17

    OSUguy17

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    Doing the same. You do need to realize though that EM has become extremely competitive. Multiple PD's on the interview trail have told me applications are increased by about 100-150 applications from last year. This is also true on the allopathic side so your going to see a lot of the DO candidates holding on to the osteopathic interviews until later in the year when the allopathic programs see the allopathic students cancel and open up interviews for these students. This will then trickle down on the osteopathic side.
     
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  24. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director

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    This "interview hoarding' is a big problem in EM. I understand why students do it, and I can't blame them, but it definitely hurts other students, as well as the programs, who may wind up interviewing a large portion of students who truly have no interest in the program and are just using it as a "safety". From a program standpoint, you just have to be smart and know your competitiveness. We deny interviews to top tier candidates unless they rotated with us or have a local connection. When you get 600 applicatoins for only 80-100 interview spots, you have to filter people out, but you also don't want to waste spots on people that have no true interest.
     
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  25. engineeredout

    engineeredout Lightning Ballseeker 7+ Year Member

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    Don't hate the player, hate the game.
     
  26. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director

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    Haha. I get it, I can't blame the students. Its an imperfect system, that is for sure.
     
  27. OSUguy17

    OSUguy17

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    Hey gameremdoc, can you comment on interviewing students that didn't audition at your institution? I've found that a few interviews really surprised me and are at the top of ,y list been I didn't audition there. How do you keep fresh in a PDs mind?


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  28. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director

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    There are almost 200 ACGME EM programs, and like 60 AOA programs. There are of course some overlap here since some a dual accredidation, but you get the point. Its impossible for students to go to every place they interview at. In the AOA world, there seems to be a belief among students that if you don't rotate somewhere, you won't match there. I think this comes from the fact that many programs are smaller, and tend to rank there lists with sure things. If you only have to match 3 spots, you may only have to rank 20 people. If you are only ranking 20, you probably can get 20 students in to rotate. That becomes a lot harder if you are a program with say 10 residents a year, and have to interview 120 candidates. So on the ACGME side of things, I don't think you see this expectation that you need to have rotated to have any chance. That being said, if you are a really good student, rotating somewhere only helps you. After all, if two candidates are otherwise equal on paper with similar SLOEs, EM grades, MPSEs, boards, etc, of course a program will rank the one they know if they did well on rotation over the unknown. That's common sense. I look at having rotated at a place more as an ultimate tie breaker than something that is going to jettison someone up 30 spots on a rank list.

    As for what you can do. You can always go places and shadow for a shift. That will certainly show that you have significant interest in a place. The downside is, when you are shadowing, you do no actual hands on patient care, and that really doesn't help a place evaluate you in anyway. So while its a nice gesture that shows interest, its not really helpful for the program to evaluate you. Almost everyone sends emails or thank you cards after the interview, and this is a nice personal gesture, but almost everyone does it so its hard to gauge from a programs standpoint that this really means much interest. I think reaching out closer to the match with a followup email, stating your interest in a program is meaningful. But don't overdue it. If you tell every program they are #1 on your list, and you don't match there, they obviously know you are a liar. And EM is a small world, you never know if they have friends and former colleagues at other programs that you may make similar statements too. My point is, don't tell everyone on your match list they are #1. Rather, contact your top 3 places maybe, and tell them you have them highly ranked. Pick out what you liked about those places and put that stuff in the email. Make the program realize there is something in their program that is drawing you there, this makes it more genuine. Lastly, I'd let your top choice know they are your top choice. You don't have to do this, but I always like this transparency. Many programs do the same, and call a certain percentage of their list and let students know if they are in the top 10 or so. DONT FREAK OUT if you don't get a call, some programs don't do this, and many programs that are great programs go way deeper into their match lists than the number they contact.

    If you do decide to contact programs closer to the match, remember that you can volunteer info about your rank list, and they can volunteer info about theirs. But neither side can ask the other about their intentions. You can email a program and say that you have them #1, but you can't say something like "i'd appreciate it if you told me where I stand". Same goes with the program. A program can contact you and tell you that you are ranked competitvely, but if they ask you where you have them ranked, that's a violation of the rules of the match.

    I hope that helps!
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
  29. xj67x

    xj67x 5+ Year Member

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    hey everyone. how many interviews should you go on. I know the NRMP came out with statistics for the ACGME world that about 11-12 contiguous ranks give you like a 99% chance of matching but there aren't any stats about that in the AOA world. I asked my school and they said that Texas did a study at it came out that 6 interviews gave you a 99% chance of matching. I was wondering if anyone else has heard anything different or if your schools have told you something else
     
  30. alo

    alo

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    I'm interested in the emergency medicine residency at St. John Providence health in Michigan. Anyone rotate there recently or is a current resident to share info? I noticed they had 6 spots but only 4 current interns.
     
  31. txny1

    txny1

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    Are interviews still coming out??.. or pretty much done for the season?..
     
  32. Extremehippo11

    Extremehippo11 5+ Year Member

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    I think that around this time last year I had received the majority of my invites. I believe that I got one more after a cancellation.


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  33. joeDO2

    joeDO2 5+ Year Member

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    go on as many interviews as you can afford / have time for in your schedule. usually this ends up being around 10. there is no benefit in trying to figure out the minimum number to go on. if you match, you won't care about a few extra interviews you went on. if you don't match, you will wonder if those extra few interviews would have changed the course of the rest of your career. its just not worth the risk.
     
  34. Makati2008

    Makati2008 SDN Moderator 7+ Year Member

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    Great advice


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  35. gilly45

    gilly45

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    Does anyone know if programs are going to be adding interviews or is it too late? I have 3 interviews so far and am worrried...
     
  36. Calikiwi

    Calikiwi 5+ Year Member

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    In the AOA world you're probably behind the curve here. My advice would be to contact the programs you're really interested in directly and make your case (you may contact 20 and get 2-3 interviews out of it). Additionally, if you can go do a few shifts at the departments you're interviewing at, that should bump you up a few notches. I'd also start thinking of backups/plan B and consider applying there too.
     
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  37. Makati2008

    Makati2008 SDN Moderator 7+ Year Member

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    Give us your stats. Also are your three interviews only at places you rotated?


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  38. gilly45

    gilly45

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    Comlex 1 and 2 are 500-550. Average grades first 2 years, 3 sloes hp/h/hp, all hp and honors in 3rd year. One of my interviews was at a place I auditioned, got honors, and feel really good about. I did not rotate at the other 2 places. I do
    have a few acgme interviews, including my other rotations, but don't think I will get the double digits others have.
     
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  39. GimpGenius

    GimpGenius 5+ Year Member

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    Some programs may be saving invitations for after ACOEP (starts next week). If you aren't going to that, it may be worth contacting the programs you really want to match to soon.
     
  40. Makati2008

    Makati2008 SDN Moderator 7+ Year Member

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    Do you have any red flags? Besides the scores I don't see anything that makes you a borderline candidate? Times are changing in EM.


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  41. EJR9008

    EJR9008 5+ Year Member

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    Anyone heard from Henry Ford Macomb I saw they aren't on the list? Thanks!
     
  42. OSUguy17

    OSUguy17

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    They are on the allopathic side now.


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  43. gilly45

    gilly45

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    No red flags :/
     
  44. Makati2008

    Makati2008 SDN Moderator 7+ Year Member

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    I'm sorry. Did you apply a good mix of places?


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  45. scribbler90

    scribbler90

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    I like the advice of someone above of contacting programs. It may seem ludicrous or desperate but in my mind it was my future so I did this about three weeks ago. I did 3 extra shadow shifts. One place didn't interview formally so it was a bit of a waste (good learning experience though) but I got an invite from one place a shadowed afterward and another place I shadowed, went to their didactics and journal club/ expressed interest and got an invite. It's a lot of work and we are all busy but in my mind it's short term pain for long term gain. Here's to hoping anyways!
     
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  46. Late Bloomer

    Late Bloomer 5+ Year Member

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    You have 3 total between AOA & ACGME? How many did u apply to on each side?
    I feel your anxiety. I've got COMLEX 1 & 2 >550, granted a low USMLE 1, no red flags I'm aware of, and only have interviews at places I've auditioned. I'm surprised about the crickets from the AOA side!
     
  47. gilly45

    gilly45

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    Thanks for the help guys, I have started emailing programs this week and hopefully I will hear back from some.
    I have applied to ~20 aoa programs and have 3 interviews. I applied to ~35 acgme and have 3 interviews on that side as well. How many places did you audition/get interviews at on the aoa side?
     
  48. Late Bloomer

    Late Bloomer 5+ Year Member

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    Did u take USMLE 1 or 2? Are ur ACGME interviews at places that were previously AOA & were recently ACGME accredited? I've got 2 AOA invites after auditions & 3 ACGME after auditions.
     
  49. TeamZissou

    TeamZissou jaferd 7+ Year Member

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    Contact programs in your geographic area, let them know you are interested and available on short notice to fill any cancellations they may receive.
     
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  50. Al2O3

    Al2O3

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    Hey guys, I guess invites are still trickling in. I just received one from Coney Island, and there are multiple days available.

    Arrowhead - Colton, CA
    ProMedica Monroe - Monroe, MI
    Southeastern Health - Lumberton, NC
    Inspira Health Network Program - Vineland, NJ
    St Barnabas - Bronx, NY
    Doctors Hospital - Columbus, OH
    St. Vincents - Erie, PA
    Arnot Health- Elmira, NY
    Lakeland Health- St Joseph, MI
    Adena Health Systems - Chillicothe, OH
    St. Mary's- Livonia, MI
    Ohio Valley- Wheeling, WV
    Aria - Philadelphia, PA
    Kent Hospital - Warwick, RI
    St. John - Westlake, OH
    MWU/CCOM - Chicago, IL
    McLaren Oakland - Pontiac, MI
    Memorial Hospital - York, PA
    Orange Regional - Middletown, NY
    Rowan Kennedy - Stratford, NJ
    Mercy Health - Muskegon, MI
    Beaumont-Farmington (Formerly Botsford) - Farmington Hills, Mi
    Einstein - Philadelphia, PA
    Good Samaritan - West Islip, NY
    Beaumont Oakwood - Trenton, MI
    UH Regional Hospital - Richmond Heights, OH
    Cape Fear Valley - Fayetteville, NC
    Henry Ford Wyandotte - Wyandotte, MI
    Desert Regional Medical Center - Palm Springs, CA
    Henry Ford Allegiance - Jackson, MI
    Genesys - Grand Blanc, MI
    Memorial Hospital - Marietta, OH
    St. Elizabeth's- Boardman, OH
    McLaren Macomb - Mount Clemens, MI
    St. John Providence Health System - Madison Heights, MI
    Lehigh Valley - Bethlehem, PA
    Integris SW Medical Center - Oklahoma City, OK
    Coney Island - Brooklyn, NY
     
  51. gilly45

    gilly45

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    No usmle. And yes 2 of them used to be aoa
     

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