Osteopathic School: What's the Catch?

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imperfect10

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10+ Year Member
I will be pursuing a post-bac pre-med program. I earned a mediocre GPA (3.2 overall, 3.3 psychology major) at the Univ. of Southern Cal due to some poor grades during my freshman and sophomore years when I was going through some depression.

So even if I ace every pre-med science course I take as a post-bac (and I have to take all of them), Allopathic school is a long shot with my blemished academic record.

I would like to stay in California, and one (of the two) Osteopathic schools in CA lists a Science GPA of 3.31, an Overall GPA of 3.40, and an MCAT score of 27.90 for the admissions data of their c/o 2012. I am a good test taker, I know I can get a higher Science GPA than that average, and my Overall GPA should be right at or above that average.

So what's the catch?

I need to take ALL my science courses, and I could do that in one year and apply fall of 2010, or two years and apply in fall of 2011 (basically, the difference would be if I take 2 vs. 3 classes per semester).

If Allopathic school is out of reach, even if I take my time and ace every course over the two year plan, why not just do it all in one year (note that this would include 2 summers! as 'bookends') and apply to Osteopathic school, which I am very much in contention for already (according to data). Furthermore, if Allopathic school is a long shot for me, then Allopathic school in CA is probably impossible. Since I prefer to stay in CA, Osteopathic school has that advantage for me.



I am interested in neurology, psychiatry, and even neurosurgery (I am definitely interested in theory, but I know this might be too competitive in practical terms). I know that a higher rate of Osteopathic grads go into primary care (vs. Allopathic). Is that the "catch"? That if I want to succeed in my specialty of interest, I will be at a disadvantage having gone through Osteopathic school? However, I have heard that neurology is a very easy specialty to get matched for, even coming from Osteopathic schools. So for my situation, is the difference really just a matter of prestige/having to work harder to sell myself?

Obviously I should apply to both Osteopathic and Allopathic, but if Osteopathic is a more reasonable goal for my situation, and I could get started a whole year earlier if I opt for Osteopathic school (with a perhaps slightly less stellar transcript/application due to the hastened schedule), what's stopping me for just intending on Osteopathic school from the outset, rather than just "settling" for it if I don't get into an Allopathic school?

p.s. I know that I have a LOT of research to do, but I figure it makes more sense asking questions while I'm still ignorant (to guide my research) than after I learn the answers.
 
If you are dead set on going to school in CA, then (as you say) you are a long shot for MD. I am interested in the same specialties as you (psych, neuro) and have shadowed and worked with numerous psychiatrists and neurologists (MD's and DO's). All have told me that I will have no problems matching into a competitive program out of a DO school if I work hard. So my advice is to apply osteopathic from the outset and avoid the mentality that there must be a 'catch'. The catch is that you have to work hard and perform well on your boards. You have to do that at any medical school. The one thing on your side is that those specialties are less sought after than others. Western and Touro CA will be able to help you do that. Good luck with cramming all that science in a year!
 
imperfect10 said:
I will be pursuing a post-bac pre-med program. I earned a mediocre GPA (3.2 overall, 3.3 psychology major) at the Univ. of Southern Cal due to some poor grades during my freshman and sophomore years when I was going through some depression.

So even if I ace every pre-med science course I take as a post-bac (and I have to take all of them), Allopathic school is a long shot with my blemished academic record.

I would like to stay in California, and one (of the two) Osteopathic schools in CA lists a Science GPA of 3.31, an Overall GPA of 3.40, and an MCAT score of 27.90 for the admissions data of their c/o 2012. I am a good test taker, I know I can get a higher Science GPA than that average, and my Overall GPA should be right at or above that average.

So what's the catch?

I need to take ALL my science courses, and I could do that in one year and apply fall of 2010, or two years and apply in fall of 2011 (basically, the difference would be if I take 2 vs. 3 classes per semester).

If Allopathic school is out of reach, even if I take my time and ace every course over the two year plan, why not just do it all in one year (note that this would include 2 summers! as 'bookends') and apply to Osteopathic school, which I am very much in contention for already (according to data). Furthermore, if Allopathic school is a long shot for me, then Allopathic school in CA is probably impossible. Since I prefer to stay in CA, Osteopathic school has that advantage for me.

I am interested in neurology, psychiatry, and even neurosurgery (I am definitely interested in theory, but I know this might be too competitive in practical terms). I know that a higher rate of Osteopathic grads go into primary care (vs. Allopathic). Is that the "catch"? That if I want to succeed in my specialty of interest, I will be at a disadvantage having gone through Osteopathic school? However, I have heard that neurology is a very easy specialty to get matched for, even coming from Osteopathic schools. So for my situation, is the difference really just a matter of prestige/having to work harder to sell myself?

Obviously I should apply to both Osteopathic and Allopathic, but if Osteopathic is a more reasonable goal for my situation, and I could get started a whole year earlier if I opt for Osteopathic school (with a perhaps slightly less stellar transcript/application due to the hastened schedule), what's stopping me for just intending on Osteopathic school from the outset, rather than just "settling" for it if I don't get into an Allopathic school?

p.s. I know that I have a LOT of research to do, but I figure it makes more sense asking questions while I'm still ignorant (to guide my research) than after I learn the answers.
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The catch is that you will end up like this doctor:

[youtube]80bx8HK6xPE[/youtube]

😆

Seriously though, there is no catch. Look at some DO Match lists over in Osteopathic Medical Students forum. At least half of the class matches into a specialty besides Primary Care. The poster above me is right that you work hard, do well on your rotations, get a good board score, etc. and you can match into any specialty for which you might be competitive.

I think a good place to start your research is right here at SDN. Just search for match lists for Western from previous years and look at where people are matching into. Keep in mind that students pick a specialty to go into on their own, and not because they're DOs. So that means that if one year, you see lot of people going into primary care, that is just an indication of the number of students who preferred to go into primary care. They weren't forced into primary care simply because they went to a DO school.

As far as your postbacc, you can take a year, two years, it doesn't really matter. You need to decide which path will be the best for you so you are able to study comfortably and get As in all or most of those classes. Plus, if you have free time, you can get some clinical experience or build your ECs.

In the end, there is no catch. Once you are out there, nobody will care if there is an MD or DO after your name, not even your colleagues.
 
imperfect10 said:
I will be pursuing a post-bac pre-med program. I earned a mediocre GPA (3.2 overall, 3.3 psychology major) at the Univ. of Southern Cal due to some poor grades during my freshman and sophomore years when I was going through some depression.

So even if I ace every pre-med science course I take as a post-bac (and I have to take all of them), Allopathic school is a long shot with my blemished academic record.

I would like to stay in California, and one (of the two) Osteopathic schools in CA lists a Science GPA of 3.31, an Overall GPA of 3.40, and an MCAT score of 27.90 for the admissions data of their c/o 2012. I am a good test taker, I know I can get a higher Science GPA than that average, and my Overall GPA should be right at or above that average.

So what's the catch?

I need to take ALL my science courses, and I could do that in one year and apply fall of 2010, or two years and apply in fall of 2011 (basically, the difference would be if I take 2 vs. 3 classes per semester).

If Allopathic school is out of reach, even if I take my time and ace every course over the two year plan, why not just do it all in one year (note that this would include 2 summers! as 'bookends') and apply to Osteopathic school, which I am very much in contention for already (according to data). Furthermore, if Allopathic school is a long shot for me, then Allopathic school in CA is probably impossible. Since I prefer to stay in CA, Osteopathic school has that advantage for me.



I am interested in neurology, psychiatry, and even neurosurgery (I am definitely interested in theory, but I know this might be too competitive in practical terms). I know that a higher rate of Osteopathic grads go into primary care (vs. Allopathic). Is that the "catch"? That if I want to succeed in my specialty of interest, I will be at a disadvantage having gone through Osteopathic school? However, I have heard that neurology is a very easy specialty to get matched for, even coming from Osteopathic schools. So for my situation, is the difference really just a matter of prestige/having to work harder to sell myself?

Obviously I should apply to both Osteopathic and Allopathic, but if Osteopathic is a more reasonable goal for my situation, and I could get started a whole year earlier if I opt for Osteopathic school (with a perhaps slightly less stellar transcript/application due to the hastened schedule), what's stopping me for just intending on Osteopathic school from the outset, rather than just "settling" for it if I don't get into an Allopathic school?

p.s. I know that I have a LOT of research to do, but I figure it makes more sense asking questions while I'm still ignorant (to guide my research) than after I learn the answers.
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There is no catch to osteopathic medicine. Matching psychiatry and neurology would not be difficult at all as a DO; those are in fact two of the easiest residencies to both MDs and DOs to match into. It would be much harder for a DO to match an MD neurosurgery residency, but you should also be aware that there are DO residencies in tough specialties such as neurosurg that MDs cannot apply to. Thus, if your performance in med school is solid, you can certainly become a neurosurgeon as a DO.

On top of that, Western is one of the very best DO schools; your medical education there would be excellent.
 
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The catch is you have to spend some time learning OMM – a catch that attracts many people including me.

Also someone's ignorant mother-in-law may someday ask you why you're not a "real doctor" and confuse you with a chiropractor.

That's about it.
 
binko said:
The catch is you have to spend some time learning OMM – a catch that attracts many people including me.

Also someone's ignorant mother-in-law may someday ask you why you're not a "real doctor" and confuse you with a chiropractor.

That's about it.
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:laugh:

Tell it like it is, binko.
 
hehe thanks guys, this was all helpful.

Yeah, I have to learn more about OMM. With my interest in psychiatry and such, I'm obviously very interested in medicine and psychoactive drugs, so at first glance OMM sounds a bit out of my element.

I'll have to examine actual osteopathic curriculums more closely to try and discern if the situation is more like adding an additional technique (in which case, the more the merrier!) if it is more like having a different philosophy that is infused throughout the education as a whole.

Ya, right now I'm sort of playing a numbers game.

I will take 2 classes this summer (regardless), but if I take 3/semester after that, I can apply in 2010, but if I take 2/semester I will apply in 2011.

So hypothetically:

2010 application = 3.39 overall GPA + 3.63 science GPA + 30 MCAT + "Good" EC's = 30% chance at acceptance into MD & 60% chance at acceptance into DO for c/o 2015.

vs.

2011 application = 3.50 overall GPA + 3.80 science GPA + 32 MCAT + "Great" EC's = 45% chance at acceptance into MD & 75% chance at acceptance into DO for c/o 2016.

Obviously those numbers are purely hypothetical, but I'm just kind of organizing my thoughts, and that is the model of my mentality for making my decision (for the pre-med course work).
 
the % of allopathic and ostoepathic students that go into primary care is pretty equal now a days and there has been a steady DECLINE for years (from both MD and DO).

A 2008 workforce study showed that only 22% of osteopathic physicians are in Family medicine with another 7% in internal medicine and pediatrics. The other 75% are in other specialties.
 
I don't know where you are getting your percentages from but you've got to be a complete downie to not get into an osteopathic school with a 32 mcat and a 3.8 gpa.
 
binko said:
the catch is you have to spend some time learning omm – a catch that attracts many people including me.

also someone's ignorant mother-in-law may someday ask you why you're not a "real doctor" and confuse you with a chiropractor.

that's about it.
Click to expand...



*ba-zing*
 
I was going to wait the extra year too (apply in class of 2014). Really glad I didn't do it. I wasn't going to apply MD at all, but my mother convinced me to do it just because it was getting more applications out there.

Woulda saved a couple $k if I didn't apply MD. Oh well.
 
engineeredout said:
I was going to wait the extra year too (apply in class of 2014). Really glad I didn't do it. I wasn't going to apply MD at all, but my mother convinced me to do it just because it was getting more applications out there.

Woulda saved a couple $k if I didn't apply MD. Oh well.
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Yeah, I am thinking along the same lines. Waiting an extra year for a 40-60 (if that) chance at an MD school doesn't seem worth it if I have a 70-30 chance for a DO.

Regarding the (hypothetical) 3.8 GPA...

Since I'm a 23 year old post-bac with a full 4 years under my belt at 3.2 overall and 3.3 major gpa (in psych) from the Univ. SoCal, it'll be very hard to boost my overall GPA, even with great BCMP grades (since I have yet to take all of them, which I will do at a state school).

So I guess it depends on how heavily they weight the overall GPA vs. the BCMP GPA.
 
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imperfect10 said:
hehe thanks guys, this was all helpful.

Yeah, I have to learn more about OMM. With my interest in psychiatry and such, I'm obviously very interested in medicine and psychoactive drugs, so at first glance OMM sounds a bit out of my element.

I'll have to examine actual osteopathic curriculums more closely to try and discern if the situation is more like adding an additional technique (in which case, the more the merrier!) if it is more like having a different philosophy that is infused throughout the education as a whole.
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OMM is "just another tool in your toolbox" as many like to say. How much you want to actually use it when you're done with med school is totally up to you. Personally I feel it's an extremely valuable tool, owing mostly to its extreme portability – I hope to someday go on medical mission trips and being able to use your hands for diagnosis and treatment would be super useful in a situation where some of the more sophisticated diagnostic technology we're used to is lacking.

I've also had a good experience with a DO who was able to diagnose the root cause of my various, seemingly unrelated joint pains. The simple diagnosis, hypermobile joints, required a simple diagnostic technique, feeling the joints in various places and how they move. No MD, including the orthopedist who operated on my knee, ever thought to do anything but imaging for diagnosis. (Not knocking the orthopedist – the surgery went well and did what it was supposed to do and I regained nearly all function) So that's just an anecdotal situation where I gained appreciation for OMM as a diagnostic method, not just therapeutic. (In fact, hypermobile joints is a condition where OMM as a treatment is pretty much useless)

According to an MSII I've been spending a lot of time with, OMM is basically "learning to feel". You develop a sensitivity to structural abnormalities that you can't learn without practice. She finds it very useful, and was just telling me about how she recently learned a technique that is very efficacious for reducing pain and easing delivery for pregnant women by slight repositioning of the uterus. So it's not all bones, either. It's a lot of soft tissue manipulation too. Even cranial (which is often misinterpreted and largely bulls hit) has some proven, valid use cases, such as in newborns who have nerve pinching due to a misaligned jugular foramen, and thereby have impaired sucking reflex.

But there are plenty of DOs who don't really like OMM at all, do the bare minimum to pass the OMM classes, and after graduation they're pretty much exactly like MDs. There's no blood oath or anything that you have to love OMM or use it ever. You learn it, and it's up to you to decide what you think of it.

The philosophical "difference" is, at most, a difference in emphasis, not in actual beliefs about medicine, and usually there's no difference at all.
 
The "catch" is that you will have a harder time matching into allopathic residencies than an MD grad. This means that allopathic residencies for some specialties will be pretty much unattainable (i.e. neurosurgery). I've heard that in more traditional fields like surgery there are programs that are more open to FMGs than they are to DOs. There are osteopathic residencies for many of these specialties but there are fewer of them and they may be in less desirable locations (so you'd wind up having to leave CA or work in a rural part of CA). If you want to do academic medicine and don't want to be confined to osteopathic institutions, then you'll need an allopathic residency which means you probably won't get into as competitive of a program as an allopathic student of the same caliber. Another catch is that most of these programs are private and therefore expensive. I hear some complaints from students about how DO schools handle their clinical rotations, apparently some schools leave them up to the students to arrange and that can get messy. Fit is important in choosing a med school, and if you're really interested in specializing in a psych/neuro field and most others in your school want to do primary care (like is the case at many DO schools) you may not feel you "fit" as well as at some schools -- but on the other hand you may feel you fit in better than at a school where everyone is gunning for a ROAD/surgery specialty. And finally, there are some countries where DOs are not given the same practice rights as MDs.

Also, osteopathic med schools still have somewhat low acceptance rates -- nothing like the UCs but don't assume that just because your stats are comparable to their average that you'll get in. I think applying to only 2 schools would be a mistake -- apply to some of the MD schools in Cali with lower stats and/or some MD/DO schools outside CA as well and choose based on the individual schools you get accepted to rather than whether it's MD or DO.
 
OP, I don't know how it works for DO schools, but I know most med schools don't really care about your non BCPM classes. The only thing that matters is what your grades in your science classes were. The MCAT is also the other great equalizer...don't know who told you that you had no shot at MD schools, but clearly you've had some bad advice.

Most DO schools are becoming just as competitive as MD schools anyway.
 
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Deceptacon said:
I don't know where you are getting your percentages from but you've got to be a complete downie to not get into an osteopathic school with a 32 mcat and a 3.8 gpa.
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I've seen it happen. I know several people that got into two or three MD schools but rejected post interview from several DO schools. They were also the most socially inept people I know, so maybe you have to be a "downie" to get into MD schools. 😉
 
sarahg said:
The "catch" is that you will have a harder time matching into allopathic residencies than an MD grad. This means that allopathic residencies for some specialties will be pretty much unattainable (i.e. neurosurgery). I've heard that in more traditional fields like surgery there are programs that are more open to FMGs than they are to DOs. There are osteopathic residencies for many of these specialties but there are fewer of them and they may be in less desirable locations (so you'd wind up having to leave CA or work in a rural part of CA). If you want to do academic medicine and don't want to be confined to osteopathic institutions, then you'll need an allopathic residency which means you probably won't get into as competitive of a program as an allopathic student of the same caliber. Another catch is that most of these programs are private and therefore expensive. I hear some complaints from students about how DO schools handle their clinical rotations, apparently some schools leave them up to the students to arrange and that can get messy. Fit is important in choosing a med school, and if you're really interested in specializing in a psych/neuro field and most others in your school want to do primary care (like is the case at many DO schools) you may not feel you "fit" as well as at some schools -- but on the other hand you may feel you fit in better than at a school where everyone is gunning for a ROAD/surgery specialty. And finally, there are some countries where DOs are not given the same practice rights as MDs.

Also, osteopathic med schools still have somewhat low acceptance rates -- nothing like the UCs but don't assume that just because your stats are comparable to their average that you'll get in. I think applying to only 2 schools would be a mistake -- apply to some of the MD schools in Cali with lower stats and/or some MD/DO schools outside CA as well and choose based on the individual schools you get accepted to rather than whether it's MD or DO.
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no.👎
 
Yeah but if you go to an allo school you have 0% chance of getting an osteo residency.
 
sarahg said:
The "catch" is that you will have a harder time matching into allopathic residencies than an MD grad. This means that allopathic residencies for some specialties will be pretty much unattainable (i.e. neurosurgery).
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While this may be true, since the OP is interested in psychiatry and neurology, he/she should have no problem coming from a DO school. With good grades and board scores the OP will have a solid shot at large academic programs... perhaps not the harvards of the world but then again who really has a shot at harvard.

The fact that the OP can speak English fluently basically means (s)he will be able match into an allopathic psych program. I am not kidding either.


sarahg said:
I've heard that in more traditional fields like surgery there are programs that are more open to FMGs than they are to DOs.
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Those programs that are "closed" to DOs are largely closed to FMGs too. Those FMGs who do get slots, at least in my experience, practiced in their country prior to actually getting a residency in the US.

There is a stigma out there though. It is smallest in DO populated areas like Penn and the midwest. It is highest in the south. At my school we literally have 0 surgical residents that are DOs. In all the surgical subspecialties at my school including OB there are well over 100 residents- i would estimate close to 150. There are 0 DOs

sarahg said:
I hear some complaints from students about how DO schools handle their clinical rotations, apparently some schools leave them up to the students to arrange and that can get messy.
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A good idea to find out which. there are already threads on this on SDN. A simple search should help the OP out

OP, it's not all doom and gloom, especially if you do end up doing neuro or psych. Might as well apply to your state schools as well as the DO schools.

I recommend AGAINST shortening your college experience. You will have plenty of time to practice medicine and only 1 time where you can enjoy the life of a college student. Medical school is nothing like college. Live it up while you can.
 
EastWestN2grt said:
no.👎
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Sorry if I offended you or anyone else. The OP asked what the "catch" was so I listed every possible negative I could think of, since he or she seems to be aware of the advantages (mainly location). I didn't mean to give a negative view of DO school or discourage the OP from attending, just to give a list of possible catches so that the OP can decide how influential those particular factors are.
 
Instatewaiter said:
The fact that the OP can speak English fluently basically means (s)he will be able match into an allopathic psych program. I am not kidding either.
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LMAO. What does that mean? They're very easy?

Thank you sarah, that's sort of exactly what I was looking for. HOWEVER, I do have some interest in research (possibly academic stuff), so I am concerned that allo residencies will be harder to get, and that I'll need to have one to work in allo academic institutions(?)...but thanks for bringing that to my attention. Question: does the reverse hold true? (working in osteo academic medicine requires osteo residency)

Yeah, I'm actually encountering more and more logistical things that would make it difficult for me to finish the pre-med program in under two years (and apply in fall 2010), so I guess I will sort of have to apply in 2011. I guess there is some relief that the decision is made for me.
 
imperfect10 said:
LMAO. What does that mean? They're very easy?

Thank you sarah, that's sort of exactly what I was looking for. HOWEVER, I do have some interest in research (possibly academic stuff), so I am concerned that allo residencies will be harder to get, and that I'll need to have one to work in allo academic institutions(?)...but thanks for bringing that to my attention. Question: does the reverse hold true? (working in osteo academic medicine requires osteo residency)

Yeah, I'm actually encountering more and more logistical things that would make it difficult for me to finish the pre-med program in under two years (and apply in fall 2010), so I guess I will sort of have to apply in 2011. I guess there is some relief that the decision is made for me.
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Essentially, yes. Most psychiatrists that I have met are foreign educated and foreign born. Does this mean they are less quality? Absolutely not. But English is certainly not their first language and an American educated medical graduate (MD or DO) with English as their native language is highly sought after for psych programs.
 
please tell me about DO schools. what if i want to do radiology afterwards? what if i want to do research while in school?
 
stud247 said:
please tell me about DO schools. what if i want to do radiology afterwards? what if i want to do research while in school?
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Then you do radiology afterwards. And you do research while in school.
 
binko said:
Then you do radiology afterwards. And you do research while in school.
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This reminds me of the trick interview question "How do you put an elephant in a refrigerator?"
 
EricH said:
This reminds me of the trick interview question "How do you put an elephant in a refrigerator?"
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By opening the refrigerator door for the elephant and closing it after him?
 
Instatewaiter said:
The fact that the OP can speak English fluently basically means (s)he will be able match into an allopathic psych program. I am not kidding either.
Click to expand...

imperfect10 said:
LMAO. What does that mean? They're very easy?
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Psych programs are very easy to match into- for instance their average board scores rank around 25th percentile nationally. Few US grads really want these spots so many FMGs that could not match into another specialty end up matching psych. Because of this, much of psych is full of foreign grads. So, anyone who can fluently speak english is a comodity, especially in a field where communication is so important.
 
I don't feel like answering the pros/cons of applying D.O., but just to give you some perspective on your potential GPA, I just got into Keck USC this year w/ a 3.45 GPA/3.21 BCPM GPA. My MCAT was a 34 T.

I had done a postbacc which actually brought down my GPA (a W, a C in orgo II, and 3 B-'s in Bio and immunology). My undergrad degrees were in engineering and Russian from an ivy league school which probably helped me.

I got 8 M.D. interviews and I think 7 D.O. interviews.

So...yeah...don't give up on either path. You can't really know which option(s) are open until you see your post-bacc GPA and MCAT scores. I never would have dreamed that I would actually screw up my post-bacc grades, but I was soooo burnt out *and* had some health issues.

Do apply as early in the cycle as possible when you do apply. I probably would have done better if I could have done that--but due to needing a certain LOR, I couldn't. I was rejected 2 previous cycles, but my app was basically the same, and I think my pre-med adviser wrote something nasty or incorrect (maybe about a different applicant?) in my committee letter, so don't consider that applicable to you.
 
Are you referring to Western U or Touro. These days there is not much of a catch but traditionally DOs tend to go into primary care specialties..but even that seems to be changing. Obviously you have a different designation, DO instead of MD. There is a lot of emphasis on OMM in most DO schools. Generally speaking its a lot better than going to a foreign medical school.
 
imperfect10 said:
I will be pursuing a post-bac pre-med program. I earned a mediocre GPA (3.2 overall, 3.3 psychology major) at the Univ. of Southern Cal due to some poor grades during my freshman and sophomore years when I was going through some depression.

So even if I ace every pre-med science course I take as a post-bac (and I have to take all of them), Allopathic school is a long shot with my blemished academic record.

I would like to stay in California, and one (of the two) Osteopathic schools in CA lists a Science GPA of 3.31, an Overall GPA of 3.40, and an MCAT score of 27.90 for the admissions data of their c/o 2012. I am a good test taker, I know I can get a higher Science GPA than that average, and my Overall GPA should be right at or above that average.

So what's the catch?

I need to take ALL my science courses, and I could do that in one year and apply fall of 2010, or two years and apply in fall of 2011 (basically, the difference would be if I take 2 vs. 3 classes per semester).

If Allopathic school is out of reach, even if I take my time and ace every course over the two year plan, why not just do it all in one year (note that this would include 2 summers! as 'bookends') and apply to Osteopathic school, which I am very much in contention for already (according to data). Furthermore, if Allopathic school is a long shot for me, then Allopathic school in CA is probably impossible. Since I prefer to stay in CA, Osteopathic school has that advantage for me.



I am interested in neurology, psychiatry, and even neurosurgery (I am definitely interested in theory, but I know this might be too competitive in practical terms). I know that a higher rate of Osteopathic grads go into primary care (vs. Allopathic). Is that the "catch"? That if I want to succeed in my specialty of interest, I will be at a disadvantage having gone through Osteopathic school? However, I have heard that neurology is a very easy specialty to get matched for, even coming from Osteopathic schools. So for my situation, is the difference really just a matter of prestige/having to work harder to sell myself?

Obviously I should apply to both Osteopathic and Allopathic, but if Osteopathic is a more reasonable goal for my situation, and I could get started a whole year earlier if I opt for Osteopathic school (with a perhaps slightly less stellar transcript/application due to the hastened schedule), what's stopping me for just intending on Osteopathic school from the outset, rather than just "settling" for it if I don't get into an Allopathic school?

p.s. I know that I have a LOT of research to do, but I figure it makes more sense asking questions while I'm still ignorant (to guide my research) than after I learn the answers.
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Having never attended either and allopathic or osteopathic medical school, based on the doctors, both MDs and DOs I've spoken with, there are WAY more similarities than differences. I wouldn't rule out MD schools based purely on stats. Averages are averages, which mean there are people with lower scores and higher scores. Your GPA isn't terrible, and if you're good on tests and do well on the MCAT (realize that taking the MCAT is a whole different ball game than other standardized tests), you'll probably be a strong applicant. I'd apply both, interview at both, and choose based on which you feel is a better fit for you (location, cost, and the overall gut feeling you'll get). You'll likely have similar opportunities with either an MD or a DO. DOs can work in allopathic medical schools (and do), and can do research. Michigan State has some DOs that have made major breakthroughs in gene therapy. Your options are limited more by more ability and work ethic than by your degree.
 
imperfect10 said:
I will be pursuing a post-bac pre-med program. I earned a mediocre GPA (3.2 overall, 3.3 psychology major) at the Univ. of Southern Cal due to some poor grades during my freshman and sophomore years when I was going through some depression.

So even if I ace every pre-med science course I take as a post-bac (and I have to take all of them), Allopathic school is a long shot with my blemished academic record.

I would like to stay in California, and one (of the two) Osteopathic schools in CA lists a Science GPA of 3.31, an Overall GPA of 3.40, and an MCAT score of 27.90 for the admissions data of their c/o 2012. I am a good test taker, I know I can get a higher Science GPA than that average, and my Overall GPA should be right at or above that average.

So what's the catch?

I need to take ALL my science courses, and I could do that in one year and apply fall of 2010, or two years and apply in fall of 2011 (basically, the difference would be if I take 2 vs. 3 classes per semester).

If Allopathic school is out of reach, even if I take my time and ace every course over the two year plan, why not just do it all in one year (note that this would include 2 summers! as 'bookends') and apply to Osteopathic school, which I am very much in contention for already (according to data). Furthermore, if Allopathic school is a long shot for me, then Allopathic school in CA is probably impossible. Since I prefer to stay in CA, Osteopathic school has that advantage for me.



I am interested in neurology, psychiatry, and even neurosurgery (I am definitely interested in theory, but I know this might be too competitive in practical terms). I know that a higher rate of Osteopathic grads go into primary care (vs. Allopathic). Is that the "catch"? That if I want to succeed in my specialty of interest, I will be at a disadvantage having gone through Osteopathic school? However, I have heard that neurology is a very easy specialty to get matched for, even coming from Osteopathic schools. So for my situation, is the difference really just a matter of prestige/having to work harder to sell myself?

Obviously I should apply to both Osteopathic and Allopathic, but if Osteopathic is a more reasonable goal for my situation, and I could get started a whole year earlier if I opt for Osteopathic school (with a perhaps slightly less stellar transcript/application due to the hastened schedule), what's stopping me for just intending on Osteopathic school from the outset, rather than just "settling" for it if I don't get into an Allopathic school?

p.s. I know that I have a LOT of research to do, but I figure it makes more sense asking questions while I'm still ignorant (to guide my research) than after I learn the answers.
Click to expand...

Having never attended either and allopathic or osteopathic medical school, based on the doctors, both MDs and DOs I've spoken with, there are WAY more similarities than differences. I wouldn't rule out MD schools based purely on stats. Averages are averages, which mean there are people with lower scores and higher scores. Your GPA isn't terrible, and if you're good on tests and do well on the MCAT (realize that taking the MCAT is a whole different ball game than other standardized tests), you'll probably be a strong applicant. I'd apply both, interview at both, and choose based on which you feel is a better fit for you (location, cost, and the overall gut feeling you'll get). You'll likely have similar opportunities with either an MD or a DO. DOs can work in allopathic medical schools (and do), and can do research. Michigan State has some DOs that have made major breakthroughs in gene therapy. Your options are limited more by your ability and work ethic than by your degree.
 
Instatewaiter said:
Psych programs are very easy to match into- for instance their average board scores rank around 25th percentile nationally. Few US grads really want these spots so many FMGs that could not match into another specialty end up matching psych. Because of this, much of psych is full of foreign grads. So, anyone who can fluently speak english is a comodity, especially in a field where communication is so important.
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On average, this is true.

The top psych programs are very competitive though. And there are a few that flat out do not consider DO applicants, period. I know of one program in particular that will consider IMGs and FMGs but not DOs. Prejudice still exists at some institutions, even in psychiatry.

If you aren't interested in those specific programs though, you shouldn't have problems matching at a good program as long as you do well at whatever school you go to (though with the Match, you never know, strange things do happen every year).
 
VMSmith said:
On average, this is true.

The top psych programs are very competitive though. And there are a few that flat out do not consider DO applicants, period. I know of one program in particular that will consider IMGs and FMGs but not DOs. Prejudice still exists at some institutions, even in psychiatry.

If you aren't interested in those specific programs though, you shouldn't have problems matching at a good program as long as you do well at whatever school you go to (though with the Match, you never know, strange things do happen every year).
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Out of curiosity what "program in particular" is this?
 
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