OT: Quote from novel written about Michael Vick...

[futurevet3000]

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So being from Philadelphia, one might think I am huge Eagles fan. Well, I never was one for football. No offense to football fans, I get the hype and all, but I have trouble watching a game that is really just 15 minutes of action spread out over a few hours. But what really made me disgusted was when the Eagles signed Michael Vick. This is obviously old news, and he just had a "fantastic" season with them. I refuse to watch a minute of it, even though it is always on in my house. I recently picked up a book by Jim Gorant about the whole dog fighting ordeal and Vick, and this quote just sent me screaming.... warning, it is not for the faint of heart.


"As the dog lay on the ground fighting for air, Quanis Phillips grabbed its front legs and Michael Vick grabbed its hind legs. They swung the dog over their head like a jump rope then slammed it to the ground. The first impact didn't kill it. So Phillips and Vick slammed it again. The two men kept at it, alternating back and forth, pounding the create against the ground, until at last, the little red dog was dead."


- The Lost Dogs: Michael Vick's Dogs and Their Tale of Rescue and Redemption


Sure people can make the argument that this is the author's interpretation. However, this account was created from a forensic veterinarian from the ASPCA after doing a necropsy on this dog and eight other dogs dug up on Vick's property. Verbal accounts also solidified the evidence of how each dog was killed. It is disgusting, deplorable, and downright sad. I just wanted to vent about it, and recommend the book to everyone. I hated Vick before, but did not even know the details behind his specific case. Yes he served his time and is "a changed man" but I can safely say he should be no where near a football field making millions and millions of dollars.



That is my rant for the day... but I strongly recommend the book, even though its awful.

 

[Marsala]

I can't bring myself to read it. All I know is that Michael Vick should have his skin peeled off and be dipped in a salt water and lemon juice bath.😡

He is a disgusting human being, and I can't believe he had the balls to say that he wanted to get another dog for a pet. Really?!?

(sorry for being harsh, but I don't feel that he was punished at all, or that he is sorry at all for what he did. If anything, he's sorry he got caught.)

 

[thedogisgreen]

I actually recently finished that book. It was disturbing but fascinating to read. Definitely reccomend it if you think you can handle quotes like above. There were some heartwarming parts as well to make up for those, though in the end, it does leave you with an intense hatred of Michael Vick.

 

[New Foundland]

Curious... assuming the method of killing is correct, how does the forensic veterinarian know that Vick was one of the two who conducted it?

Anyone who writes a book about something like this has a vested interest in exaggerating and plain-out making up horrifying stories about Vick particularly..

Don't take my stance as any sort of defense of Vick. I thought it was absolutely ridiculous that they let him back into the league at all (let alone right away)
But I like to criticize horrible people for the things we know they did wrong (which in this case, are plenty), not just what is alleged in a book.
Do we know it was Vick? or could it have been any one of his circle of friends who did this?


BTW, Donte Stallworth plead guilty to a DUI Manslaughter charge, served 30 days in prison, and was suspended for only ONE YEAR from the nfl (he played on the Ravens in 2010). Clearly the league is not fond of the term "zero tolerance" 😡

 

[futurevet3000]

There were numerous verbal accounts from all those involved, including a grounds keeper who buried the dogs for pay. I am not saying that everything the author says is absolutely true, but I would believe most of it. He did his research and there is solid evidence against everything that happened. Maybe Vick didn't kill this dog (though I believe the evidence presented in the book)... but he sure as hell orchestrated the killings and fighting to a massive degree as we all know. Either way its wrong, but I understand how many people see this maybe as the author using his creative lisence to attack Vick. But the evidence is there and points to him being physically involved in everything, including the killing.

I would just like to go on the record of saying I despise these major league sports and their half-assed rules against criminals. Wow I cursed a lot, sorry! I am so fired up.

 

[that redhead]

I read an interesting article by the organization that rehabbed the surviving Vick dogs. They wrote it after Obama called Vick to congratulate him on being awesome, basically along the lines of what they'd say to the president if he called asking about the Vick dogs. I think its disgusting that those sort of people (animal abusers, child molesters, etcetcetc) are allowed back into society without some sort of serious rehabilitation. Sure, he served his prison sentence but he's probably more sorry that he was caught than sorry for what he did.

 

[skittles12]

I was very disappointed and disgusted that he was allowed to come back and play so soon. I will never understand how someone could be so cruel to something so innocent (also why I don't understand child abusers). I haven't had a chance to pick up the book yet, but it's on been on my "to read" list.
I do, however, think it 's amazing that some of the rescued dogs have become certified therapy dogs. That is a wonderful end to a truly tragic story.

 

[Marsala]

I don't know if it is true about animal abusers, but my understanding of sex offenders, hoarders, etc. is that they really cannot be rehabilitated. Some can be treated with meds, but not sure about the success with that, either.

 

[Robdude]

I understand people who say he should have spent more time in jail or whatever. But, I'm not sure I agree with the idea of releasing a criminal from prison and then excluding them from working.

Not being able to get a legal source of income seems like a great reason to seek out an illegal source of income. I could understand a law designed to protect victims or whatever, something like, 'If you were ever convicted of hurting children, you can't work at a daycare'. But, I don't see that as applying to the NFL.

 

[sumstorm]

I am not saying that everything the author says is absolutely true, but I would believe most of it. He did his research and there is solid evidence against everything that happened.

I'm willing to bet if it wasn't reasonably close to true the author would be dealing with charges of slander.

 

[sumstorm]

I understand people who say he should have spent more time in jail or whatever. But, I'm not sure I agree with the idea of releasing a criminal from prison and then excluding them from working.

I'm kind of thinking that if a DVM that treats horses did this to dogs, s/he would lose their ability to work in their chosen field. Actually, criminal charges for drugs could cause loss of licence.

I don't think anyone feels he shouldn't be able to work, just that he shouldn't be able to work in a high profile field. There have been times where athletes have been black balled for criminal activities because the fields they worked in policed themselves, much as our field does.

But I have mixed feelings about punishment beyond sentencing too.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I understand people who say he should have spent more time in jail or whatever. But, I'm not sure I agree with the idea of releasing a criminal from prison and then excluding them from working.

Not being able to get a legal source of income seems like a great reason to seek out an illegal source of income. I could understand a law designed to protect victims or whatever, something like, 'If you were ever convicted of hurting children, you can't work at a daycare'. But, I don't see that as applying to the NFL.

I agree with this. I'm a dog owner myself, and I find his actions atrocious. However, some people need to get over themselves with the whole "we should skin him alive, or feed him to dogs, or whatever" That makes you just as bad as him.

He served his time. We can all argue it was not enough, but he paid his debt. Seriously, he is still paying for it - he is going to be hated all his life - this deed will follow him into every sports book he is mentioned in. His entire legacy (because let's face is, he's an amazing athlete) is permanently, badly, tarnished. Is that not enough? You want him elecrocuted, too?

No one is forcing you to LIKE him, or approve of him, for crying out loud. I personally still despise his actions. But that does not mean he does not have the legal right to pursue a career.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Also ( and I'm going to get flamed for this, but I really don't care. This issue has gotten to the point of ridiculous)

It pisses the hell out of me when people keep going "Oh, he's not sorry, I bet he is just sorry he got caught, blah blah blah...."

What the hell are you basing this on? You are so blind with hatred that you refuse to believe that he might, just might, actually want to be a better person. You refuse to even CONSIDER that he might want to be better.

You don't even know him, his family, or anything. Yet, you see an interview on TV, and because he did not cry enough for you, or look repentant enough in your eyes (which are already judgemental and biased), you immediately deem him unapologetic. You are a peanut-gallery judge who has already made up their mind before the trial even started. No one here knows what he's feeling, whether he is truly sorry or not. So stop trying to make blanket statements.

Again, I am a dog owner. I have met several Vick dogs. I abhor dogfighting. But I'm not so completely blinded by hatred that I continue to nail someone who may (just MAY) be actually trying to be a better person.

 

[Dsmoody23]

Here's why people think his remorse isn't genuine:

Until he was arrested, his pattern of behavior was unchanged.

If he hadn't been arrested, that property would still be in use.

Equally, contrition doesn't carry much weight for me when it's also the condition for a multi-million dollar paycheck.

If one of us had a felony conviction, let alone one of that magnitude, our career path would be effectively closed to us, as well as many other employment options.

But not this guy. He did a minimum prison term and jumped back into a dream job.

That's why he's hated with such intensity.

 

[Marsala]

Here's why people think his remorse isn't genuine:

Until he was arrested, his pattern of behavior was unchanged.

If he hadn't been arrested, that property would still be in use.

Equally, contrition doesn't carry much weight for me when it's also the condition for a multi-million dollar paycheck.

If one of us had a felony conviction, let alone one of that magnitude, our career path would be effectively closed to us, as well as many other employment options.

But not this guy. He did a minimum prison term and jumped back into a dream job.

That's why he's hated with such intensity.

What the hell am I basing it on? Exactly this.

 

[LetItSnow]

I understand people who say he should have spent more time in jail or whatever. But, I'm not sure I agree with the idea of releasing a criminal from prison and then excluding them from working.

If I were found guilty of a crime of that nature, there is a 0% chance that my company would rehire me. And my job has absolutely nothing to do with animals.

I think we need to designate certain jobs for post-release felons; namely, the least desirable jobs. Sure, they deserve to be free once they've served their time. And yes, they need jobs (otherwise they just continue to cost the rest of us money). But nothing says they deserve to go straight to the top of society again as if nothing ever happened.

I think the NFL said a lot about its priorities when it welcomed him back so gleefully. Just like I think it says a lot about Eagles' fans who did the same: apparently winning a bunch of football games is more important, to hell with the fact that they did it with a cruel, heartless, characterless thug of a person at the helm.

Woah. Sorry to explode a bit, there.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

🙄

I knew better than to try, I suppose.

My b/f and his brother grew up siccing their farm dogs on feral cats for fun. Now, my b/f loves my cat. He's changed.

A friend of mine grew up in an area where gang violence was normal. It was a way of life to beat the s** out of others. Again, it took getting in trouble for him to really step back and say wait...wait a minute. He changed.

I grew up in a family where racism was completely normal. I was a pretty awful bigot (which honestly, I put on par with a lot of other horrible practices) I was not aware it was even an issue until I got to college, and began realizing that such discriminatory patterns were wrong. It took getting in trouble for me to realize it. I changed. Am I saying Vick is truly sorry? No. I don't know that. No one knows that.

His contrition was not required for his paycheck. That's not a valid arguement. Only his time was. We have no idea if he's actually contrite or not, so it bothers me when people 100% assume it is not.

But I'll leave it there unless someone decides to prod further. Carry on with the talking of elecrocuting him, or whatever.

Hello, I am not arguing that his punishment was not sufficient - I don't believe that it was. Even though, like I said, his life is permanently tarnished for it (as it should be). My post was with regards to people automatically assuming that he has absolutely no capacity to even think about changing.

 

[laitmanvet]

I agree with this. I'm a dog owner myself, and I find his actions atrocious. However, some people need to get over themselves with the whole "we should skin him alive, or feed him to dogs, or whatever" That makes you just as bad as him.

He served his time. We can all argue it was not enough, but he paid his debt. Seriously, he is still paying for it - he is going to be hated all his life - this deed will follow him into every sports book he is mentioned in. His entire legacy (because let's face is, he's an amazing athlete) is permanently, badly, tarnished. Is that not enough? You want him elecrocuted, too?

No one is forcing you to LIKE him, or approve of him, for crying out loud. I personally still despise his actions. But that does not mean he does not have the legal right to pursue a career.

👍 I completely agree with this. Remorseful or not (and it really doesn't matter at this point) he needs to move on with his life. He's got a family to support just like millions of other people and WTF is right, if he doesn't get a job legally who know what he'll resort to for money. As a resident of Philadelphia and someone btw who couldn't care less about sports, he's actually good for the city. Winning sports teams = lots of people visiting the city to go to the games = lots of money being spent in the city. When the Phillies were in the world series, it was reported that 1 mil dollars a day was being spent in Phila...and this city needs it!
Plus, I've heard he donates a fair amount of money to the PSPCA.
I don't particularly like him all that much, but again, that doesn't matter. His presence in Philly is better for the city than it is worse for it.

 

[Dsmoody23]

🙄

I knew better than to try, I suppose.

My b/f and his brother grew up siccing their farm dogs on feral cats for fun. Now, my b/f loves my cat. He's changed.

A friend of mine grew up in an area where gang violence was normal. It was a way of life to beat the s** out of others. Again, it took getting in trouble for him to really step back and say wait...wait a minute. He changed.

I grew up in a family where racism was completely normal. I was a pretty awful bigot (which honestly, I put on par with a lot of other horrible practices) I was not aware it was even an issue until I got to college, and began realizing that such discriminatory patterns were wrong. It took getting in trouble for me to realize it. I changed. Am I saying Vick is truly sorry? No. I don't know that. No one knows that.

His contrition was not required for his paycheck. That's not a valid arguement. Only his time was. We have no idea if he's actually contrite or not, so it bothers me when people 100% assume it is not.

But I'll leave it there unless someone decides to prod further. Carry on with the talking of elecrocuting him, or whatever.

Hello, I am not arguing that his punishment was not sufficient - I don't believe that it was. Even though, like I said, his life is permanently tarnished for it (as it should be). My post was with regards to people automatically assuming that he has absolutely no capacity to even think about changing.

His contrition, in televised interviews, was a condition of his employment with the Eagles. They hired a PR firm to rehabilitate his image after his release from prison. Without it, he would not have been marketable to the general public. So the televised remorse was a condition of his paycheck.

Also, serving a prison term does not give a person carte blanc to live the way they would have lived before their conviction. That's why felons can't own handguns and child molesters can't drive the school bus.

Actions have consequences. Like in those stories you mentioned about killing cats and assaulting people. Regardless of the lesson learned or the redemptive value of being caught, those people are still animal abusers and violent criminals. And life is supposed to change for you, in a negative way, after you commit a serious violent crime.

 

[that redhead]

I understand people who say he should have spent more time in jail or whatever. But, I'm not sure I agree with the idea of releasing a criminal from prison and then excluding them from working.

Not being able to get a legal source of income seems like a great reason to seek out an illegal source of income.

There is a far cry difference between releasing him from prison and allowing him to work and releasing him from prison and allowing him back onto such a national, glorified, idolized stage. They wouldn't be excluding him from working - they would be excluding him from the world of glory, fame and ridiculous pay checks that fostered his ability to do such awful things in the first place. He engaged in these despicable behaviors because he's a terrible excuse for a human being, not because he needed money.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Regardless of the lesson learned or the redemptive value of being caught, those people are still animal abusers and violent criminals.

Right, so I'm still a racist (remind me to tell my black friends), my boyfriend is still an animal abuser (I'll let my cat know the next time she's sleeping in his lap), and my friend is still a violent criminal (remind me to tell that to the after-school program he now works for to keep inner city kids in intramural sports and off the streets.)

Sorry though, that statement is quite out of line and, frankly, ignorant.

 

[LetItSnow]

I knew better than to try, I suppose.

Nonsense. I can disagree with you without thinking poorly of you. I don't find your argument compelling, but that's no reflection on you personally, and I'm always interested in hearing from people who see things differently.

I don't really care much about his contrition, genuine or not. I just think it's ill-advised to return someone guilty of a heinous crime to superstardom, because I think it sends the message that the crime wasn't a terribly big deal.

Truth be told, I don't blame VICK for going back to playing football: he's just doing what's best for Vick, and who can blame him for that? I think the NFL and the Eagles made a horrible choice.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I don't really care much about his contrition, genuine or not. I just think it's ill-advised to return someone guilty of a heinous crime to superstardom, because I think it sends the message that the crime wasn't a terribly big deal.

I can definitely see your point and I do agree. Again, like I said, I do believe that the punishment was lenient. However, remember that until the end of his career, he will always have a black cloud over him. I think having your legacy permanently tarnished by such as thing is a) deserved, and b) better than arbitrary prison time and financial fines. I was more harping on how people become blinded by their own bias and refuse to even consider possibility of reform. That's more what I was getting at.

 

[Dsmoody23]

Right, so I'm still a racist (remind me to tell my black friends), my boyfriend is still an animal abuser (I'll let my cat know the next time she's sleeping in his lap), and my friend is still a violent criminal (remind me to tell that to the after-school program he know works for to keep inner city kids in intramural sports and off the streets.

Sorry though, that statement is quite out of line and, frankly, ignorant.

I like how 'ignorant' is the go-to phrase whenever there's disagreement on this forum.

If your boyfriend abused animals and was convicted for it, then yes, he gets to carry that stigma with him. For the rest of his life.

And the same to the rest. If you're convicted of a crime, you're a criminal.

I'm not sure where in our culture the idea came from that simply being sorry for something makes it ok, and gives you the right to return to square one.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I like how 'ignorant' is the go-to phrase whenever there's disagreement on this forum.

If your boyfriend abused animals and was convicted for it, then yes, he gets to carry that stigma with him. For the rest of his life.

And the same to the rest. If you're convicted of a crime, you're a criminal.

I'm not sure where in our culture the idea came from that simply being sorry for something makes it ok, and gives you the right to return to square one.

Perhaps it was a bad example - because I don't personally consider a farm kid sending dogs after stray cats animal abuse - it devalues the importance of the term. But he realized over time it was wrong, even though in the rural area he grew up in, it was considered a totally normal thing to do. So he should never, ever be able to own a cat? Psh. When the hell did I ever say that just being sorry was ok? Or that Vick was not a criminal? Where on earth are you gleaning that from? Stop putting words in my mouth and read what I actually said. Jesus. What I am *saying*, since obviously I have to spell it out again, is that people CAN learn from past transgressions, and CAN change. Not that Vick is some wonderful do-gooder. Does it mean they did bad things in the past? Yes. And they should be punished? Absolutely. But that by definition they can never change? Ridiculous. Go back in my posts and show me where I said that just being sorry was enough.

 

[Dsmoody23]

No, he wasn't. But he realized over time it was wrong, even though in the rural area he grew up in, it was considered a totally normal thing to do. And tread carefully with accusations on that one.

When the hell did I ever say that just being sorry was ok? Or that Vick was not a criminal? Where on earth are you gleaning that from? Stop putting words in my mouth and read what I actually said. Jesus. What I am *saying*, since obviously I have to spell it out again, is that people CAN learn from past transgressions, and CAN change. Not that Vick is some wonderful do-gooder. Does it mean they did bad things in the past? Yes. And they should be punished? Absolutely. But that by definition they can never change? Ridiculous.

Deep breath, killer.

You're as close to hysterical as I've ever seen the written word come.

Again. Actions have consequences. Regardless of a persons desire or ability to change, they still have to carry the responsibility for the action.

It doesn't matter what he learned or didn't learn. The consequences were not in line with the crime, in terms of jail time or employment loss, and that's why he inspires such intense emotion from people.

... because I don't personally consider a farm kid sending dogs after stray cats animal abuse - it devalues the importance of the term.

And i'm not even sure why you added that. It's just a weird thing to say.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Deep breath, killer.

You're as close to hysterical as I've ever seen the written word come.

🙄 More like rising frustration that my actual words are being ignored for the main purpose of escalation.

Again. Actions have consequences. Regardless of a persons desire or ability to change, they still have to carry the responsibility for the action.

I don't recall ever disagreeing with that.

And i'm not even sure why you added that. It's just a weird thing to say.

Because a kid sending their dog after a stray cat/squirrel/raccoon/whatever is not the same as torturing a dog - he didn't "abuse" animals. Although from the looks of things I am sure you will argue the contrary, Lol. What I was attempting to do was use it the example to make a point that people can change how they view other people/things.

 

[New Foundland]

I don't really care much about his contrition, genuine or not. I just think it's ill-advised to return someone guilty of a heinous crime to superstardom, because I think it sends the message that the crime wasn't a terribly big deal.

Exactly, and you've got to take into account that this message is being received by millions of youth.

Vick jerseys were the #1 selling jerseys in america for a few years.
Kids idolized this guy like crazy. Sports leagues need to be held accountable for how they discipline their players, because the behaviour of their players is under a magnifying glass held by tens of millions of young spectators and young football players.
In some circumstances, it would be easy to accept that somebody did something wrong, got punished, and then naturally went back to the only real line of work he is good at.. This is an exception though, because this is a very serious issue which so many young people are very impressionable about.
Kids emulate athletes beyond comprehension, which is why athlete product endorsement deals are so lucrative. The leagues need to be held, and in turn hold their athletes, to the highest standard of conduct.

 

[Dsmoody23]

Also ( and I'm going to get flamed for this, but I really don't care. This issue has gotten to the point of ridiculous)

It pisses the hell out of me when people keep going "Oh, he's not sorry, I bet he is just sorry he got caught, blah blah blah...."

What the hell are you basing this on? You are so blind with hatred that you refuse to believe that he might, just might, actually want to be a better person. You refuse to even CONSIDER that he might want to be better.

You don't even know him, his family, or anything. Yet, you see an interview on TV, and because he did not cry enough for you, or look repentant enough in your eyes (which are already judgemental and biased), you immediately deem him unapologetic. You are a peanut-gallery judge who has already made up their mind before the trial even started. No one here knows what he's feeling, whether he is truly sorry or not. So stop trying to make blanket statements.

Again, I am a dog owner. I have met several Vick dogs. I abhor dogfighting. But I'm not so completely blinded by hatred that I continue to nail someone who may (just MAY) be actually trying to be a better person.

This is why. These are your actual words.

You picked the most high-profile, contentious animal abuser in America
...and defended him.

Shrilly.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Defended him? So, where did I say that it is ok if Vick was just sorry, and we should all love him, or that I know he is sorry, and that his actions are all forgiven...? Hmm.

I'm saying no one knows his actual feelings on the matter, and it may be possible he wants to change.

That does not excuse what he did. At all. And it never will. I don't recall saying anything to the contrary. He will have to live with the stigma the rest of his life, and rightly so.

 

[LetItSnow]

But I mean hey, what do I know...I'm evidently a Michael Vick "defender"

And hysterical. And shrill. Don't forget those.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

And hysterical. And shrill. Don't forget those.

👍

 

[Dsmoody23]

Defended him? So, where did I say that it is ok if Vick was just sorry, and we should all love him, or that I know he is sorry, and that his actions are all forgiven...? Hmm.

I'm saying no one knows his actual feelings on the matter, and it may be possible he wants to change.

That does not excuse what he did. At all. And it never will. I don't recall saying anything to the contrary. He will have to live with the stigma the rest of his life, and rightly so.

Ok. Lets call it good and quit.

It only took about 9 posts to come to the conclusion that none of us can really know another person.

I feel like I'm high in a basement, talking about Sartre.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I feel like I'm high in a basement...

You criminal! 😉

 

[Dsmoody23]

You criminal! 😉

Nope. I'm genuinely sorry.

Is now when someone cuts me a check, or do I have to cry on Oprah?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

It's okay, no one will believe you either way, whether you are or you aren't, anyway 😀

 

[futurevet3000]

I swear I did not mean to cause a brawl! I was just so outraged by the quote from the book, just thought I would share it/recommend it with people on here since I figured many would want to read it.

I think its safe to say, none of us are happy with what happened... and I am now at the part of the book where some dogs get a second chance. At least some good came from it all...

Still dislike Vick though, and still will not watch the Eagles. That's just personal boycott.

 

[168135]

I'm not all too familiar with the Vick case, but there are a couple of points that I would like to bring up:

It's one thing to make ONE mistake and pay the price... it's another to make YEARS of repeated mistakes. If Vick participated in dog-fighting for say, a month, and was caught, he's more likely to acknowledge to what he did as wrong and come out of it a changed man. It's different to to participate in dog-fighting, with all of the perks that go with it, for YEARS and come out a changed man after a piddly little jail sentence and being allowed to go back to living his own life. I think it would take a lot of counselling in order for Vick to truely realize that what he did was not okay.

 

[sumstorm]

I'd be ok with Vick's return to stardom if
1) the vast majority of his funds went to tending to animal abuse across the country (restitution for the poor role model behavior and cruelty)
2) there was equality in justice; if this had been a young black man from a ghetto, who had worked his way through UG via dog fighting, with a magnificent intellectual gift for the study of exobiology the liklihood that NASA would beat down his door to pay him top income, or that grad programs would even consider his application is pretty darn low. Not to mention how many things we can lose our ability to use our DVM for.

Then again, I already have a huge beef with the focus we put on sports in the academic realm, so that may also color my perception. I'm with those who don't really care if he changed...that just doesn't even fall on my radar...the man was making a fortune and needed to make more via these animals, which I really don't understand...while I might understand an impovershed kid seeing this as a way out. I'm more disappointed by those that put him back in the position he is currently in; as a role model for youth, again. To me, it sends the message of 'if you harm other creatures for your entertainment (did he really need to make money off it?) you will lose a year of your life, have a tagline to your name for a while, and still be able to be a leader.' I can think of dictators that follow the same model.

 

[EllieGirl89]

WhtsThFrequency, I'm with you. I wasn't going to say anything because I couldn't think of an eloquent way to put it, so I thank you for presenting the other side of the coin =)

 

[nyanko]

WTF, I agree with you on a lot of points, but not really on his contrition. Now, let me get one thing straight. I don't believe that he has any moral obligation to be sorry - if that's how he feels then that's how he feels. He's a piece of human garbage imo, either way, but he has a right to have his job back. It isn't like he works in any field where people are expected to be held to a higher moral standard.

But what makes me think that he isn't really "sorry" for the dogs, just that he got caught, is that anything he's done for animal charities in this country has been through PeTA and HSUS - if he knew his ass from a hole in the ground regarding animal issues in this country or christ, even the handling of the animals in his own case, that is not who he would have picked. If he cared, he (or his publicist, rather) would have done more research on who to support and how to get involved rather than throwing his $$$ and spokesmanship behind whoever makes the most noise.

And yeah, your examples aren't exactly valid - the way he killed those dogs himself (and with his friends) could not in any way be construed as the same as sending dogs after feral cats. If your bf had been perfectly okay with slamming cats against walls, burying them alive, electrocuting them etc with his own hands...yeah, I'd probably have a tough time saying that he had changed. He certainly wouldn't be allowed anywhere near my cats, that's for sure.

Let me ask you something - do you think he should be able to own another dog?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

anything he's done for animal charities in this country has been through PeTA and HSUS - if he knew his ass from a hole in the ground regarding animal issues in this country or christ, even the handling of the animals in his own case, that is not who he would have picked. If he cared, he (or his publicist, rather) would have done more research on who to support and how to get involved rather than throwing his $$$ and spokesmanship behind whoever makes the most noise.....

Let me ask you something - do you think he should be able to own another dog?

That's quite true, and I do see your point. Although I wonder, for people who are ill-versed in animal welfare groups, those are the two most stand-out and would be the knee-jerk reaction. More of a lack of knowledge than a researched choice. However, it is also totally possible that he/his publicist just picked those two for the notoriety because big names would make him seem better. We can't say either way.

I was using the examples more to accentuate how people can change how they view people/animals/etc (although in extreme cases, such a change is much more uncommon). And yes, my examples were not valid with regards to animal cruelty as a specific issue - that was not my intent with them anyway. Of course this case is more extreme - hence my admission that the farm dog/feral cats thing was not equivalent to actual animal abuse like dog-fighting. I was trying to show a general idea of a change in persuasion. Perhaps I was too general.

And no, even if he were actually remorseful, I do NOT think he should EVER be able to own another dog. That is a result of the specific crime he committed, just as I think that someone who commits a violent gun crime, even if they are truly remorseful, should never be allowed to own a gun again. That is not a matter of their feelings on the issue, it is a matter of law and responsibility IMO.

 

[pibbles]

So many things to comment on, as "pibbles" are my passion, but I have a physio exam tomorrow. Boooo!

I will just say that a lot of people, on both sides, have valid points. I personally have no nice words for Michael Vick and don't really care if he is sorry or not. He is what he is, and obviously people aren't holding him to a high moral standard, as Nyanko said. That's just American Sports for you.

I would much rather focus on the dogs in this case, and "The Lost Dogs" does an EXCELLENT job of doing that. These dogs gave my dog a "face" in the world. The dogs that are rehabilitated and working as therapy dogs are showing the world that my dog is not a monster. I think this dog fighting case showed people what really happens in a dog fighting ring. It showed them that pit bull type dogs have a chance to be regular old dogs, if given the chance.

I don't like Michael Vick. I can actually say that I hate him (I know, bad Catholic girl, sue me), but the media he brought for my dog and pit bull type dogs is more than any single person has ever given them. It's stories with some happy endings that will help change the world's views on these dogs.

 

[NStarz]

There's a video floating around on the internet of Vick and his posse being approached by one of the people who adopted one of his previous fighting dogs. The guy asked Vick if he wanted to know how his dog was, and one of his posse turned to the guy and said "we don't care about the f*ing dog."

Just saying. No it's not Vick who said it, but Vick kept walking and didn't tell his posse man to shut up. That's how I can tell how sorry (or not) he is.

I definitely don't agree with the people who say he should burn in hell or whatever, because that's ridiculously over the top. But I do think he used his status as a super-sports man to his advantage and should not have reclaimed his fame and fortune so quickly.

I wouldn't let him get within 100 feet of another dog.

 

[HelloNello]

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[WhtsThFrequency]

I'm more concerned that nobody is going to stop him from having another pet.

As far as I know, the judge prohibited him from having a dog for a certain length of time. But I agree, there really needs to be some sort of law in place, regardless of "rehab".

And pibbles, you make an excellent point that made me smile. It's awful these poor dogs had to go through so much - but honestly, I think the entire terrible situation has thankfully given the APBT (and "pit bull type" dogs) some *positive* PR. What woulda thunk it, positive PR out of dogfighting!

 

[LMMS]

Ah, the Vick argument. The ongoing bane of Philadelphians... My two cents: I hate what he did, and I don't like that the NFL allowed him to come back to full throttle so quickly. Most of all I hate that part of his probation is going to local elementary schools so he can tell small children that if you work hard that you too can succeed in life. 😕 I have never been an Eagles fan, and I wish he weren't playing in the city in which I live. But, without him, I wouldn't have this story to tell...

Last year, when Vick came to Philly, there were many a new jersey sold. One of them was sold to a neighbor of mine. There I was taking out my trash in my scrubs, and there he was drinking beer in his brand new Vick jersey. As he was with another neighbor of mine who I adore, I was pleasant and didn't say a thing about the jersey. However, an odd thing happened: the guy asked me if I was a nurse (given that I was wearing scrubs and all). When I replied that I was a vet tech, this was his response:

'No way! I could ever do that! I hate to see, or even hear about, animals in pain. What a horrible job you must have.'

Talk about irony...