Other questions

[absolutetp]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I just thought of some other questions that I wanted to ask. As far as applying to preliminary year programs, what's a good number of programs to apply to? i think many of the PM&R programs that i have looked at are only 3 years, so I would have to apply for that prelim year. For all of you PM&R residents out there, does it matter if the year is a transitional year or IM? Do any of you recommend one over the other? And how rigorous of a prelim year is required for PM&R? In other words, do I need to consider a prelim program that is intense and university affiliated where I will be worked to death to better prepare me for the PM&R residency? Or can I still go to a program that is good, but not malignant and will allow me to have a life? Any recommendations on which prelim programs are good, please tell me.

Also, as far as LOR, we don't have a PM&R residency at my school, so as of now, I have a LOR from Chairman of Neurosurgery, IM, and General Surgery. I could get a LOR from a PM&R doc that is in private practice in town, but is that acceptable? Also, do people generally get LOR from away rotations at other hospitals? If so, can you submit that LOR to all the programs you apply to or just that program that you did the elective rotation at? Someone told me that if you submit a LOR from an away rotation to other programs, they might question whether you want to come to their program b/c you didn't do an away rotation at their program. Did that make sense?

Ok, thanks in advance for your help.

 

[axm397]

OK, I'll combine answers to both your posts here. A bad step1 score alone should not prevent you from matching to your program of choice. Like you, my step 1 score was not great - I took step 2 early and did a little better. MY grades from the pre-clinical years were just average - but I did significantly better my 3rd year. (They definitely looked at those grades) There are other aspects of your application you can still control - namely your personal statement, LORs, and away elective grades. (your dean's letters will not go out the fall- so your first 3-4 months of grades from 4th year should be included in your application)

I am not sure how you came to the decision to rotate at RIC, NYU, or Mt. Sinai. Those are three very different programs. (see previous posts on each program) You seem to be concentrated on the location of the programs rather than the quality/size/etc. of the programs. (which is fine - ppl have various reasons for wanting to be in one location or another) I'm assuming St. Vincents is your transitional program of choice?? (good choice - very cush - my friend is there now.) Elective rotations are not required to get into these programs - if you are one who does well on rotations then they'll get your foot in the door.

prelminary programs can be quite competitive - especially cush ones like st. vincents. You will be competing with derm, rads, anesthesia, neuro, and opthal. I applied to 10 - got interviews at 6. It doesn't matter if your year is transitional or IM but the ACGME requires you to do at least 6 months of inpatient medicine. My prelim year is at an academic medical center where I went to school - but it's not really too bad. (I also had personal reasons for wanting to stay in the area before moving to chicago.) RIC, by the way, has a categorical position.

My BIGGEST concern with your application is your lack of PM&R LOR. I really believe my PM&R LOR openned a lot of doors for me. PDs are not going to care if you have letters from chairs of another department. The IM letter may help with prelim year more so than PM&R. You really do need to get PM&R letters. DEFINITELY do an away elective in PM&R (do more than one if you can) and DEFINITELY get LORs there. I got 2 out of my 3 PM&R LORs from away electives. You can most definitely submit them to all the programs you are applying to. ONly one PD was worried that I would go to a letter writer's program over his - and he actually trained at that program. It didn't stop him from writing personal cards to me recruiting me to his program. So that is not a worry.

How did you come to the decision to go into PM&R if there is no PM&R at your school? You definitely should try to get a good "feel" of the field before interviewing. If PM&R is a back up plan to other fields, PDs will sniff that out too. 🙂

I also PMed you about a poster who is currently doing his PM&R residency in Louisiana. He may be able to help you as well. Good luck!

 

[AviatorDoc]

Questions regarding the residency application process:

1.) Do PM&R programs, in general, accept the AOA rotating internship?
2.) Will the AOA pull out your PM&R application if you match to an AOA internship? (I have heard horror stories to this effect.)
3.) If my first PM&R rotation is in September, is this too late to get a PM&R LOR? (This rotation will be both an introduction to PM&R for me and an audition rotation if I decide I really like PM&R. I'm really late in deciding to consider PM&R as a career.)
4.) Will Family Practice residencies accept someone for intern year knowing up front that that person will be gone to rad/anes/pm&r the following year?
5.) What's a good choice for a PGY-1 experience? Transitional, AOA traditional, IM, IM/peds?

Thanks for the help,
AviatorDoc
MS-IV KCOM

 

[axm397]

Don't know much about AOA - so will skip those questions.

1. If my first PM&R rotation is in September, is this too late to get a PM&R LOR? - no it won't be as long as the letter writer is efficient. Be prepared to answer why you only have one PM&R letter, why you only did one PM&R rotation,etc. Also, try to get a good "feel" of the field so you can present well on interviews.

If you don't like PM&R, what are your other choices? Will you be applying to more than one specialty? If not, will you not be completing your application until after your september rotation?

4.) Will Family Practice residencies accept someone for intern year knowing up front that that person will be gone to rad/anes/pm&r the following year?

If it's a program that didn't fill - perhaps you can. However, obviously, they would much prefer to have someone who will stay for the whole three years.

5.) What's a good choice for a PGY-1 experience? Transitional, AOA traditional, IM, IM/peds?

Again, don't know about the AOA PGY1 year. Transitional can be more cush - but some programs have surgery and ob/gyn requirements. Prelim year is probably better - since you probably won't use much ob/gyn in PM&R. As far as I know, there is no 1 year IM/Peds program.

 

[AviatorDoc]

I'd love to have some guidance regarding the application process. I'm just one step above completely clueless. I don't know about MD schools, but DO programs in general "turn you loose" during your 4th year, without a peep about what you're supposed to do for residency.

What is the protocol for the match?

I've been on a PM&R kick for about 3 months now. Before, I didn't even give it a second thought. I don't know why, but I just wrote it off. I was going to do Family Practice.

 

[drvlad2004]

2.) Will the AOA pull out your PM&R application if you match to an AOA internship? (I have heard horror stories to this effect.)

Only if the PM&R program that you are applying to begins in the PGY1 year. The vast majority of PM&R programs begin as PGY2. Also, I think that you are better off doing an osteopathic traditional rotating internship b/c you can easily pick whatever internship you want with little to no competition. Also, if you plan on practicing in PA, MI, WV, OK, and FL, you need the internship. However, resolution 42 has made it much easier to get an allopathic internship approved by the AOA.

 

[axm397]

Here's the schedule for the match:

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/yearly.html

August 15, 2004
Applicant registration begins

September 1, 2004
Institution / program registration begins

December 1, 2004
Applicant registration deadline
Note: Applicants may register after this deadline by paying an additional late registration fee of $50.00 when registering after 11:59 PM eastern time.

January 15, 2005
Rank order list entry begins.
Applicants and programs may start entering their rank order lists.

January 31, 2005
Quota change deadline
Programs must submit final information on quotas and withdrawals.

February 23, 2005
Late Registration Deadline

Rank order list deadline
Closing time has been modified from 11:59 PM eastern time to 9:00 PM eastern time. Staff will be available to answer any questions you may have during the final deadline hours. CERTIFIED applicant and program rank order lists and any other information pertinent to the Match must be entered in the R3 System by this date and time.

March 14, 2005
Matched and unmatched information on applicants posted to the Web site at 12:00 noon eastern time.

March 15, 2005
Filled and unfilled results for individual programs posted to the Web site at 11:30 am eastern time.

Locations of all unfilled positions are released at 12:00 noon eastern time. Unmatched applicants may begin contacting unfilled programs at 12:00 noon eastern time.

March 17, 2005
Match results for applicants are posted to Web site at
1:00 pm eastern time.

 

[axm397]

The above is for "regular" match. Some specialties are "early" match - with an earlier schedule.

PM&R is regular match.

You can work on your personal statement (s) now and your CV. You should also try to secure some LORs now. If you're not doing a PM&R rotation until 4th year - you can wait. However, you'll need about 4 LORs +/- 2-3 LORs. You can get LORs from other specialties to supplement as well. (also good for prelim/transitional)

If you didn't do well on step 1 or Comlex?? consider taking step 2 earlier.

Dean's letters usually do not go out until November. (this usually is written by one of the deans of the school and has your 3rd year evals verbatim in addition to some background information and any explanations about special circumstances)

Some programs will offer you interviews as soon as they receive any part of your application. Others will wait until your dean's letter is in.

Most interview dates will be in November - January.

Hope this helps.

 

[Finally M3]

1) I thought the acceptance of AOA internship was program dependent. There might have been a couple who required an allopath...but I'm not sure.

2) ?

3) No, it's not too late. However, it does put a LOT of eggs into one basket in regards to the fact that if you don't make a good impression, you'll have a less than stellar LOR. And since you don't have any other PM&R letters....

4) ?

5) I went prelim, but that's because I like floor medicine, and I'm gonna need the experience at UMich. My electives are NeuroSurg, Radiology and Ortho.

Questions regarding the residency application process:

1.) Do PM&R programs, in general, accept the AOA rotating internship?
2.) Will the AOA pull out your PM&R application if you match to an AOA internship? (I have heard horror stories to this effect.)
3.) If my first PM&R rotation is in September, is this too late to get a PM&R LOR? (This rotation will be both an introduction to PM&R for me and an audition rotation if I decide I really like PM&R. I'm really late in deciding to consider PM&R as a career.)
4.) Will Family Practice residencies accept someone for intern year knowing up front that that person will be gone to rad/anes/pm&r the following year?
5.) What's a good choice for a PGY-1 experience? Transitional, AOA traditional, IM, IM/peds?

Thanks for the help,
AviatorDoc
MS-IV KCOM

 

[AviatorDoc]

Just in case of confusion... aoa = american osteopathic association

I know there is another AOA, but I was referring to the osteopathic match. The rules are that if you match to AOA, you are pulled out of the "other" match. This is in contrast to the past where newly-dubbed DOs could "double dip" in both matches and pick which one was choice.

My PGY-1 year choice is dependent upon not moving my family out of Phoenix. There are plenty of choices, but only 2 AOA approved rotating internships. This is important because, as has been stated in other forums, a few states do not honor your licensure as a DO if you do not do an AOA internship. While I really have no desire to practice in any of these states, I suppose doing the AOA internship would save me much heartache down the road if I ever change my mind.

 

[AviatorDoc]

I'll be doing my 1st PM&R rotation at the University of Utah next month. Any words of wisdom? How to impress? Any faux paus to watch for?

 

[SpartyGoBlue]

Is it really that bad to only have one LOR in PM&R? There is only time to do 2 electives at the most before you have to get your applications in. Do programs expect all of their applicants to have done both of their early electives in this field?

Thanks 🙂

 

[axm397]

You actually have july, august, september, and october to do electives and get LORs. It sounds like you may be interested in more than one field? Why wouldn't you be able to fit in two PM&R electives?

I think it's really not a matter of the number of LORs -> it's probably more the quality of the LORs and your genuine interest in PM&R.

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

I think the problem is that there are fields a person may or may not have any exposure to at all prior to the match.

For example, if a student is interested in PM&R, Ophthalmology, Anesthesia, Preventime Medicine and Emergency Medicine then they'll have to scrounge for time and only have one letter in the eventual field of choice. At my school, we don't have required rotations in any of these, so you must use elective time.

I know they're wildly different, but that only proves my point.