Out in my PS?

[WNT Signaling]

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Is that what you wrote, and exactly how you wrote it, in your PS? That your sexual orientation was your motivation for becoming a physician?

Yes, I wrote that as a gay man, I wanted to serve my community

 

[Elpenor]

Yes, I wrote that as a gay man, I wanted to serve my community

lol

"So why do you want to be a doctor?"

Me: "Well, I'm white, ever since I found out I was white I knew I wanted to be a doctor so I could serve my community"

 

[Elpenor]

And to answer the OP, no of course don't mention being gay in your PS.

 

[schrizto]

I would support mentioning being gay in your PS, because it was the impetus behind your entire educational history.

It is ridiculous that some users are saying that it's revealing too much about the OP's personal life to say you're gay. The OP's PS is about the things he has experienced as a result of being gay. It is not focusing on his attraction to men.

Being vague does not work well. "As a result of domestic conflicts..." sounds awkward and will seem like you are trying to hide something.

 

[ollie05]

It IS a boring topic when it is not RELEVANT. However, here, sexuality is relevant as a catalyst of further events that actually do affect pre-med performance and also drive for medicine. When other people choose to sell their ethnic identity and immigrant-parent childhood, we should be denied ours?

Absolutely agree. A PS is meant to illuminate these aspects of our lives, and an amazing story like OP's should not be edited for fear of offending.

I am constantly amazed that people continue to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that sexuality is "none of our business" and demand that the LGBT community "keep it to themselves." If we truly felt this way, we would not be voting down propositions meant to further equal rights for our fellow citizens. If equality existed, there would be no need for gay pride parades and "in your face" dialogue. I would challenge posters here to envision what it will be like in medicine, treating patients from all walks of life. Are you going to avoid the issue of sexuality because it's none of your business? Can patients, or applicants, be assessed properly devoid of context?

OP, you have an amazing story, and it deserves to be told in full. Mentioning your sexuality does not read as an excuse; it helps the reader understand your struggles. Best of luck

 

[flip26]

Applicants who play a "card" in their PS, be it the gay card, the immigrant card, the URM card, or whatever, run the risk of not demonstrating a broad enough understanding of the role of physicians.

When you are on call, you are not going to be able to say "but I got into this to treat albino transgenders, so you page me when one comes in."

There are schools with secondaries that basically beg applicants to talk about specific hardships or their sexual orientation; go for broke on these.

 

[familyaerospace]

Well whatever your project is, if you ever need a student pharmacist, let me know 🙂

Thanks. 🙂 We actually have a few projects that we are planning to work on under one giant umbrella. We have a meeting in about two weeks to start discussing the plan in depth with a few other interested people. It's going to be through Someone Cares in Atlanta REALT Program. My doctor is their new medical director.

 

[MrCheetah]

Applicants who play a "card" in their PS, be it the gay card, the immigrant card, the URM card, or whatever, run the risk of not demonstrating a broad enough understanding of the role of physicians.

When you are on call, you are not going to be able to say "but I got into this to treat albino transgenders, so you page me when one comes in."

There are schools with secondaries that basically beg applicants to talk about specific hardships or their sexual orientation; go for broke on these.

Wow, what ever gave you the impression that the OP does not have, as you state it, an ability to demonstrate a "broad enough understanding of the role of physicians"? Or that if he "plays his "gay card"" that it will somehow make him somehow less capable of such a "demonstration"?

Disclosing his sexuality and how it has led to experiences which will, undoubtedly, enhance his capabilities as a physician only brings him closer to that arbitrary "understanding" you are referencing and, in my opinion, are referencing to subtly insult the people here who happen to disagree with you.

The fact that you hold, at the very least, and made light of by your post, a loose association between a person with a homosexual sexual identity, a person who is an immigrant, or an URM, etc. and a person who doesn't have an "understanding" of what it means to be a physician is incredibly short-sighted, disturbing, and bigoted. You should be ashamed of yourself and question if you really have the moral and ethical fortitude of a future physician.

 

[Mackey]

It's the military thing that makes me lean a bit towards mentioning your sexuality since you don't want to leave the people reviewing your application wondering if you did something heinous while under the government's employ. .

Do some of you guys have any idea what you're talking about before you offer your advice?

No one will question an honorable discharge. Its a mark of A+ for your service.

 

[sewcurious]

What my mom told me when I was thinking about not using my URM status. Everyone else is using every possible thing they can to their advantage, why should you do any different. As LizzyM said, your perspective makes you unique and possibly desired at many places (you too are a URM). Since you were discharged I am sure that this is a part of yourself that you are proud of and don't feel the need to hide, as it should be. I think explaining that shows you as a strong and resilient person, great qualities in physicians. Good luck

 

[MilkmanAl]

Do some of you guys have any idea what you're talking about before you offer your advice?

No one will question an honorable discharge. Its a mark of A+ for your service.

Not always, but fair enough.

 

[sewcurious]

Applicants who play a "card" in their PS, be it the gay card, the immigrant card, the URM card, or whatever, run the risk of not demonstrating a broad enough understanding of the role of physicians.

When you are on call, you are not going to be able to say "but I got into this to treat albino transgenders, so you page me when one comes in."

There are schools with secondaries that basically beg applicants to talk about specific hardships or their sexual orientation; go for broke on these.

Just because things don't seems relevant from your perspective doens;t mean anything, excet that you have a limited perspective. In fact I think you reveal your own misunderstanding in your post, medicine to help underserved groups (including LGBTQ community-members) is in very high demand. He is not saying he wouldn't treat everyone, but to say that wanting to help a group that is traditionally stigmatized is irrelevant is ridiculous.

OP, I would suggest you look into the previous posts of people telling you not to mention your status. You'll see that many of them are also against racial URM status. They are not responding to you but their own Caucasian heteronormative prejudice. I'd take you as my doctor over them any day, any time, any place.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Wait...
why do you even have to explain an honorable discharge?
isn't that the best way to get discharged 😕

 

[Bengarama]

Wait...
why do you even have to explain an honorable discharge?
isn't that the best way to get discharged 😕

I guess I should touch on this as well. Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but I assume that the people checking my application will actual look at things (ie dates). I was only in the Air Force for 1.5 years, which (to anyone with a knowledge of the military) is not long enough to complete a term of service. While it's an honorable discharge, it definitely looks odd to me (and something that gets brought up whenever anyone that knows anything about the military finds out that I only served for such a small amount of time). My perspective was, if I'm explaining some of the grade failings, I might as well knock that out too.

As for the people who seem to be under the impression that my PS is *about* me being gay, you misunderstand my question. The quickness with which you judge what is relevant to my pursuit of medicine is astounding and belies your ignorance about anything that is not directly related to your experience. As for playing a "card" I think that shows what is really the problem here; some people are afraid that I may have a "uniqueness" that they can't exploit in their own application. Believe me, as it's written, my sexuality is touched upon in one sentence, in order to explain getting kicked out of my house. As to my reasons/desires to pursue medicine, my sexuality doesn't pertain in my case (although it could), and as such, I don't mention it in that capacity. I *want* to explain my grades, and that's where the problem was originally.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

I guess I should touch on this as well. Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but I assume that the people checking my application will actual look at things (ie dates). I was only in the Air Force for 1.5 years, which (to anyone with a knowledge of the military) is not long enough to complete a term of service. While it's an honorable discharge, it definitely looks odd to me (and something that gets brought up whenever anyone that knows anything about the military finds out that I only served for such a small amount of time). My perspective was, if I'm explaining some of the grade failings, I might as well knock that out too.

As for the people who seem to be under the impression that my PS is *about* me being gay, you misunderstand my question. The quickness with which you judge what is relevant to my pursuit of medicine is astounding and belies your ignorance about anything that is not directly related to your experience. As for playing a "card" I think that shows what is really the problem here; some people are afraid that I may have a "uniqueness" that they can't exploit in their own application. Believe me, as it's written, my sexuality is touched upon in one sentence, in order to explain getting kicked out of my house. As to my reasons/desires to pursue medicine, my sexuality doesn't pertain in my case (although it could), and as such, I don't mention it in that capacity. I *want* to explain my grades, and that's where the problem was originally.

I'm not that familiar with the military but what are some other reasons for getting an honorable discharge from the air force besides injury? I think the only thing adcoms really worry about is the kind of stuff that would result in a less than honorable or dishonorable discharge (felonies, drug possession, etc). I think (although LizzyM would know more about this) a short stay in the military with an honorable discharge is something that would be brought up in an interview as opposed to something they would reject you for (they wouldn't risk it, knowing it could just as well be due to something like an injury).

As for the PS, I think it's fine if you include it in there but I see an advantage to not doing so. I say this because I think getting disowned by your parents and even by your own government just because of your sexuality is GREAT topic for the "challenge you've overcome essay" although I guess you could just as easily expand on it later even if you do include it in your PS.

I don't think you really need to worry about not getting to the secondary stage because you've raised your GPA to far above the cut off level for most schools, if that's what you're worried will happen if you don't include your orientation in your P.S.

All that being said, if you know you'll be applying to more "liberal" schools anyways (East coast for example) I don't think you have much to worry about if you do decide to include it.

 

[Morsetlis]

I don't discuss my location.... and I don't know why you would identify me with the northeast (must be my accent 😉 ). I suppose y'all don't have any gays in Texas, is that what you mean.?

Nor in Iran.

 

[Morsetlis]

lol

"So why do you want to be a doctor?"

Me: "Well, I'm white, ever since I found out I was white I knew I wanted to be a doctor so I could serve my community"

Don't be so literal. There are plenty of schools (UCI for one) that want rural-minded physicians to take care of the rural medical shortage. A person with such an ideal might profess that they wanted to serve their rural community. Obviously being born into a farming family doesn't mean that you are blessed with the mission of medically caring for the rural community, but it certainly is a good background to have.

OP, I would suggest you look into the previous posts of people telling you not to mention your status. You'll see that many of them are also against racial URM status. They are not responding to you but their own Caucasian heteronormative prejudice. I'd take you as my doctor over them any day, any time, any place.

More from me for this crusader of social justice.

 

[sewcurious]

More from me for this crusader of social justice.

Biggest compliment i have ever been given. Much appreciated.

 

[sewcurious]

Don't be so literal. There are plenty of schools (UCI for one) that want rural-minded physicians to take care of the rural medical shortage. A person with such an ideal might profess that they wanted to serve their rural community. Obviously being born into a farming family doesn't mean that you are blessed with the mission of medically caring for the rural community, but it certainly is a good background to have.

Why is the rural medical shortage more imp than the LGBTQ one?

 

[flip26]

Just because things don't seems relevant from your perspective doens;t mean anything, excet that you have a limited perspective. In fact I think you reveal your own misunderstanding in your post, medicine to help underserved groups (including LGBTQ community-members) is in very high demand. He is not saying he wouldn't treat everyone, but to say that wanting to help a group that is traditionally stigmatized is irrelevant is ridiculous.

OP, I would suggest you look into the previous posts of people telling you not to mention your status. You'll see that many of them are also against racial URM status. They are not responding to you but their own Caucasian heteronormative prejudice. I'd take you as my doctor over them any day, any time, any place.

The PS is not an audition for the Jerry Springer show, but this new generation seems to think that the PS is the perfect vehicle for "outing" themselves, or talking about being the victim of childhood abuse, or whatever.

The OP explains it this way: "I am gay, and because I am gay, I was kicked out of my house, and as a result, I had bad grades in college." In other words, he is using his sexual orientation and his victimization by his parents as a result of that to explain his bad grades.

Then he goes on to mention he is thinking about explaining his honorable discharge because "I am gay, and I was a victim of "don't ask, don't tell."

Personally, I would not bother to explain early year bad grades in the PS for ANY reason except maybe as an acknowledgment of a lack of maturity or focus that the OP overcame following a stint in the military. And he also wants to explain an "honorable discharge," and I would not do that - seems completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the purpose of the PS.

But apparently that is just me - I would not play the "victim" card in a PS, but I might expound upon those issues in the many secondary essays that specifically ask for that.

OP: Good luck.

 

[sewcurious]

The PS is not an audition for the Jerry Springer show, but this new generation seems to think that the PS is the perfect vehicle for "outing" themselves, or talking about being the victim of childhood abuse, or whatever.

The OP explains it this way: "I am gay, and because I am gay, I was kicked out of my house, and as a result, I had bad grades in college." In other words, he is using his sexual orientation and his victimization by his parents as a result of that to explain his bad grades.

Then he goes on to mention he is thinking about explaining his honorable discharge because "I am gay, and I was a victim of "don't ask, don't tell."

Personally, I would not bother to explain early year bad grades in the PS for ANY reason except maybe as an acknowledgment of a lack of maturity or focus that the OP overcame following a stint in the military. And he also wants to explain an "honorable discharge," and I would not do that - seems completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the purpose of the PS.

But apparently that is just me - I would not play the "victim" card in a PS, but I might expound upon those issues in the many secondary essays that specifically ask for that.

OP: Good luck.

How is it playing a victim card in describing the ralities of your life?

 

[flip26]

How is it playing a victim card in describing the ralities of your life?

If those "realities" explain your interest in medicine, and what you have done to investigate medicine, and the exposure to clinical medicine you have gotten, and the research you have done, then I suppose laying out the "realities" of your life in the PS is fine.

I have read lots of PS's, and I haven't yet read one that manages to do that effectively.

And many secondaries provide the opportunity to describe this very sort of thing, which to me is an indication of which schools really want to hear that stuff...so I would do it there, and not in the PS.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

. There are other aspects of my application that will obliquely out me (I'm on the board of my gay hockey league, I volunteer for the AIDS network, and I do research in an AIDS vaccine facility), but I'm not sure about blatantly mentioning it.

OP - this is kind of off-center of the topic of your post, but I wanted to point out that volunteering and doing AIDS research in NO WAY outs you or casts you in an unusual light. (Now the gay hockey league on the other hand...)

As for your dilemma: I think you have a multitude of opinions on this issue (some more well-thought out and expressed than others) so mine will likely just be one more in the sea. But here it is anyways:

1) I think as someone said a while back - this is a homerun or strike-out scenario by using this in the PS. You must be a good enough writer to "sell" this in the PS or else it could come across quite poorly. I think you should write a draft of this, see how you feel about it, and then solicit some help (from your advisor who has looked at your previous PS).

2) While I think most of his/her advice has been a bit off on this thread, flip26 brings up an excellent point - many schools have 2ndary questions that ask something along the lines of "have you ever faced significant discrimination or adversity in your life and how has it affected you?" - this topic would be a perfect thing to discuss in that section if you don't feel comfortable including it in the PS

3) Someone brought it up and I think it's important to highlight again - don't make the mistake of coming across as anti-religion. Highlight your parents' intolerance, but don't "blame it" on their being baptist. That would be a double-whammy of alienation in your PS (i.e. your being gay might alienate intolerant christians; an anti-religion bias would alienate even the tolerant ones)

 

[rxlea]

OP - this is kind of off-center of the topic of your post, but I wanted to point out that volunteering and doing AIDS research in NO WAY outs you or casts you in an unusual light. (Now the gay hockey league on the other hand...)

As for your dilemma: I think you have a multitude of opinions on this issue (some more well-thought out and expressed than others) so mine will likely just be one more in the sea. But here it is anyways:

1) I think as someone said a while back - this is a homerun or strike-out scenario by using this in the PS. You must be a good enough writer to "sell" this in the PS or else it could come across quite poorly. I think you should write a draft of this, see how you feel about it, and then solicit some help (from your advisor who has looked at your previous PS).

2) While I think most of his/her advice has been a bit off on this thread, flip26 brings up an excellent point - many schools have 2ndary questions that ask something along the lines of "have you ever faced significant discrimination or adversity in your life and how has it affected you?" - this topic would be a perfect thing to discuss in that section if you don't feel comfortable including it in the PS

3) Someone brought it up and I think it's important to highlight again - don't make the mistake of coming across as anti-religion. Highlight your parents' intolerance, but don't "blame it" on their being baptist. That would be a double-whammy of alienation in your PS (i.e. your being gay might alienate intolerant christians; an anti-religion bias would alienate even the tolerant ones)[/QUOTE]

I am sick of walking on egg shells so I don't have to "offend" some pious Christian. And, his parents probably kicked him out because they believe homosexuality is a sin- this belief most likely comes directly from their religion. So yes, their religion most likely had everything to do with it. Quite frankly, why should people care about alienating intolerant Christians? As if their intolerance is acceptable? The OP's personal statement won't have an "anti-religion bias" just because he mentions that his parents kicked him out because of their beliefs on homosexuality. What about religious abuse?

Interesting article if you guys wanna read:
http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/lesb...iatric-disorders-discriminatory-policies.html

And for the record, I have nothing against religion. But, people shouldn't use it to cause emotional, psychological, or physical harm. And, they shouldn't impose those beliefs on anyone else.

 

[taciturngirl]

I think you can craft an incredible personal statement. Go for it. And yeah, you'll need to apply broadly, but for everyone who treats you skeptically and discards your application you'll have another who's drawn to you for the perspective and maturity that you can bring to your class.

I wish you all the best. It really sounds like you have a great application in the making.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I am sick of walking on egg shells so I don't have to "offend" some pious Christian. And, his parents probably kicked him out because they believe homosexuality is a sin- this belief most likely comes directly from their religion. So yes, their religion most likely had everything to do with it. Quite frankly, why should people care about alienating intolerant Christians? As if their intolerance is acceptable? The OP's personal statement won't have an "anti-religion bias" just because he mentions that his parents kicked him out because of their beliefs on homosexuality. What about religious abuse?

Well...for one, I try to avoid offending people for no good reason (clearly you don't 😉 )

for another - you should avoid alienating your audience with your personal statement because that audience is the one deciding whether or not you get to be a doctor. And spare me the whole "why would you even want to go there if that's the attitude" - there is a big difference between the attitude of one stodgy old white dude reading your app and the school as a whole. If your goal is to find a med school that doesn't have a single intolerant person on faculty, you're going to find yourself running short of med schools.

In short - the personal statement is part of a game; it's not the place for a sociopolitical crusade.

 

[The right Path]

From what I understand, the primary focus of your PS should answer "Why medicine?" If your sexual orientation helps to explain your interest in medicine, then I think you'd be shortchanging yourself the opportunity to illustrate what you're all about if you leave out such a significant influence.

On the otherhand, if your interest in medicine isn't really related to your sexual orientation- i.e. you're interested in medicine and you just happen to be gay, then maybe that topic is more appropriate for answering a secondary essay that addresses overcoming adversity.

 

[naijaboi]

If those "realities" explain your interest in medicine, and what you have done to investigate medicine, and the exposure to clinical medicine you have gotten, and the research you have done, then I suppose laying out the "realities" of your life in the PS is fine.

I have read lots of PS's, and I haven't yet read one that manages to do that effectively.

And many secondaries provide the opportunity to describe this very sort of thing, which to me is an indication of which schools really want to hear that stuff...so I would do it there, and not in the PS.

Your activities section is the place for you to expand on your research, clinical experiences and other activities that made you pursue medicine. Your exposure to clinical medicine will be obvious from your activities section. In fact, it does you no good to regurgitate this information - especially since it is already apparent from the rest of your application.

Your Personal Statement is a place for you to talk about your life. Yes, you should include why you decided to pursue medicine, but it is not the most salient aspect of your PS. It is the chance to describe yourself, show yourself as unique, to describe your challenges (sob story as you called it), and how you overcame them, your love, your passion, your dedication etc. Do you think that shadowing doctors and talking about how warm and fuzzy it made you feel is enough to give an impression of how great of a doctor you will be? No, it won't. But talking about your goals, your struggles, your life, your history provides a context on which to properly evaluate your character.

According to your logic, an athlete should not describe his/her experiences if he/she does not want to become a primary care physician, disabled individual should not talk about their experiences, as this would be a sob story (even if they wanted to be disability advocates), a poor white Iowa farming boy should not describe his challenges as a first generation student, and his struggle to attain education (and the importance of learning for himself and his community) because his story is not relevant to medicine, or the immigrant should not describe his adjustment to a new country because it is not relevant to clinical practice, or in OP's case not to discuss his sexuality because somehow it is not medically relevant. If all these scenarios are not relevant, then what is?

Medicine is not just a profession, it is life and being a integral part of your community. Anyone can be a good clinician perhaps. But it is your experiences outside of the profession that makes the exceptional physician. Describing your life and not just your clinical and research activities gives adcoms a clearer picture of who you are. Some of the best personal statements and successful statements I have read, including several from SDN members take a non-traditional route and describe realities of their lives and other peoples.

 

[rxlea]

Well...for one, I try to avoid offending people for no good reason (clearly you don't 😉 )

for another - you should avoid alienating your audience with your personal statement because that audience is the one deciding whether or not you get to be a doctor. And spare me the whole "why would you even want to go there if that's the attitude" - there is a big difference between the attitude of one stodgy old white dude reading your app and the school as a whole. If your goal is to find a med school that doesn't have a single intolerant person on faculty, you're going to find yourself running short of med schools.

In short - the personal statement is part of a game; it's not the place for a sociopolitical crusade.

I try to avoid offending people, silly. I understand what you are saying completely- really.

What I meant about the med schools is that there is a big difference between applying to Yale or John's Hopkins. Yale is known for being more accepting...in fact, don't they have some silly saying about "1 in 4, maybe more?" John's Hopkins on the other hand... 😱 LOL

You are right about the audience of the personal statement, though. I guess I didn't think about that part- that it may be only one person reading it. However, I am certain there are ways for the OP to incorporate his experiences, even if he has to do it briefly, without offending someone.

EDIT: as for intolerant Christians:

 

[flip26]

Your activities section is the place for you to expand on your research, clinical experiences and other activities that made you pursue medicine. Your exposure to clinical medicine will be obvious from your activities section. In fact, it does you no good to regurgitate this information - especially since it is already apparent from the rest of your application.

Your Personal Statement is a place for you to talk about your life. Yes, you should include why you decided to pursue medicine, but it is not the most salient aspect of your PS. It is the chance to describe yourself, show yourself as unique, to describe your challenges (sob story as you called it), and how you overcame them, your love, your passion, your dedication etc. Do you think that shadowing doctors and talking about how warm and fuzzy it made you feel is enough to give an impression of how great of a doctor you will be? No, it won't. But talking about your goals, your struggles, your life, your history provides a context on which to properly evaluate your character.

According to your logic, an athlete should not describe his/her experiences if he/she does not want to become a primary care physician, disabled individual should not talk about their experiences, as this would be a sob story (even if they wanted to be disability advocates), a poor white Iowa farming boy should not describe his challenges as a first generation student, and his struggle to attain education (and the importance of learning for himself and his community) because his story is not relevant to medicine, or the immigrant should not describe his adjustment to a new country because it is not relevant to clinical practice, or in OP's case not to discuss his sexuality because somehow it is not medically relevant. If all these scenarios are not relevant, then what is?

Medicine is not just a profession, it is life and being a integral part of your community. Anyone can be a good clinician perhaps. But it is your experiences outside of the profession that makes the exceptional physician. Describing your life and not just your clinical and research activities gives adcoms a clearer picture of who you are. Some of the best personal statements and successful statements I have read, including several from SDN members take a non-traditional route and describe realities of their lives and other peoples.

I never used the term "sob story."

And I never suggested the PS is solely for describing activities, research, etc., described elsewhere in the app, but for showing how those activities have informed you about the profession, etc.

Different strokes - not all motivation in life has to come from a struggle, or being gay, or some conflict, or being a victim.

 

[rockaction]

I never used the term "sob story."

And I never suggested the PS is solely for describing activities, research, etc., described elsewhere in the app, but for showing how those activities have informed you about the profession, etc.

Different strokes - not all motivation in life has to come from a struggle, or being gay, or some conflict, or being a victim.

why are you still fighting this? LizzyM, an adcom, has already shown you to be wrong.

 

[flip26]

why are you still fighting this? LizzyM, an adcom, has already shown you to be wrong.

LizzyM is hardly infallible, and I believe she is leading impressionable premeds down a treacherous path here.

 

[naijaboi]

LizzyM is hardly infallible, and I believe she is leading impressionable premeds down a treacherous path here.

And you know better because?

 

[flip26]

And you know better because?

Others on this thread share my opinion that this is a treacherous path - just read the thread for the ones who say it is a "hit or miss" essay approach, etc.

LizzyM only recently acknowledged that she has been giving erroneous advice for years RE the listing of significant high school ECs on the AMCAS - she, and many others who have always cited her, had been saying it was prohibited. But she recently acknowledged that there is in fact no such prohibition in the AMCAS instructions.

My suggestion to you, and others: learn to think for yourselves.

 

[naijaboi]

Others on this thread share my opinion that this is a treacherous path - just read the thread for the ones who say it is a "hit or miss" essay approach, etc.

LizzyM only recently acknowledged that she has been giving erroneous advice for years RE the listing of significant high school ECs on the AMCAS - she, and many others who have always cited her, had been saying it was prohibited. But she recently acknowledged that there is in fact no such prohibition in the AMCAS instructions.

My suggestion to you, and others: learn to think for yourselves.

I do think for myself and it worked out for me. And I followed LizzyM's approach (though I did not know it) when I wrote my personal statement. I did all that you and a few others in this thread recommended that I not do. I do agree that it can be a hit or miss, some people can overdo it, but the advice your should be giving OP is on how to write about it properly, not to not speak about his unique circumstances. I spoke very little about my clinical and research experiences, or my epiphany to pursue medicine; I spoke about myself and family, my job and my challenges. I wrote my PS to primarily address my grades. I applied to 19 schools with a 3.37 GPA, and I got 16 of my interviews, including 3 out of 5 top ten schools I applied to. My interviewers all loved my PS because it was not traditional. My interview questions were also easier - most assumed that I would make an excellent physician and told me as much.

Your suggestion to think for yourself is a very valid and good one, and I hope OP takes this advice. And the individuals who say that it is a hit or miss never claim that a non-traditional statement is a treacherous path. Indeed it might be the best approach for someone with less than stellar credentials but who wants to get to the top.

 

[flip26]

I do think for myself and it worked out for me. And I followed LizzyM's approach (though I did not know it) when I wrote my personal statement. I did all that you and a few others in this thread recommended that I not do. I do agree that it can be a hit or miss, some people can overdo it, but the advice your should be giving OP is on how to write about it properly, not to not speak about his unique circumstances. I spoke very little about my clinical and research experiences, or my epiphany to pursue medicine; I spoke about myself and family, my job and my challenges. I wrote my PS to primarily address my grades. I applied to 19 schools with a 3.37 GPA, and I got 16 of my interviews, including 3 out of 5 top ten schools I applied to. My interviewers all loved my PS because it was not traditional. My interview questions were also easier - most assumed that I would make an excellent physician and told me as much.

Your suggestion to think for yourself is a very valid and good one, and I hope OP takes this advice. And the individuals who say that it is a hit or miss never claim that a non-traditional statement is a treacherous path. Indeed it might be the best approach for someone with less than stellar credentials but who wants to get to the top.

Not so fast.

I find that VERY hard to believe; 16 interviews out of 19 apps, including 3 of 5 of the Top 5, with a 3.37 GPA?

What are you leaving out of your story here?

 

[naijaboi]

Difficult to believe but true. My MCAT scores were in the lower 30's.

Your Personal Statement and your recommendations make a heck lot of difference. Therefore, don't short-change yourself by playing it safe (and taking the most traditional approach and writing an impersonal statement). Also, always address the weaknesses in your application. Many schools do not give you a second chance to explain your grades and other lacks; e.g. Harvard.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM only recently acknowledged that she has been giving erroneous advice for years RE the listing of significant high school ECs on the AMCAS - she, and many others who have always cited her, had been saying it was prohibited. But she recently acknowledged that there is in fact no such prohibition in the AMCAS instructions.

Yes, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. I had been told by older, more experience adcom members that HS stuff shouldn't be included in the experinece section and that it was viewed as filler. I passed that along and I used that information when I judged applications.

It is permissible (per AMCAS instructions) but how it is interpreted by adcoms is up for grabs.

 

[Marcus Brody]

Not so fast.

I find that VERY hard to believe; 16 interviews out of 19 apps, including 3 of 5 of the Top 5, with a 3.37 GPA?

What are you leaving out of your story here?

i second this

 

[Mackey]

Flip26 is just mad he can't play the homosexual card.

 

[naijaboi]

i second this

My mdapps page, not that it proves anything.

http://mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=18830&refname=Home&refuri=index.php

 

[yearn4ivy]

i second this

No I do not find this hard to believe. It seem Naijaboy used his PS to discuss his life experiences which the adcoms found unique enough to invite him to interview.

To the OP, I am willingly to respond to your PS and help you revise it to comunicate meaning to your audience (ad com members).

All others do not send a PM😛

 

[ksegnhu]

I was out in my ps. The PS is a space to depict your story in the context of, among other things, "why medicine." It may not always be relevant. But for some, it just will be.

Flip--someone outing themselves takes courage. It is not a Jerry Springer audition, ass. You have made your point. We all know where you stand. If you don't have something nice to say....yup, just don't say it. And regarding Texas: yup, the Gays exist down there too. That damn lifestyle...🙄

I was offered 19 interview invites--5 at top 10-- and I applied to 24 schools.

This topic is only awkward if you make it awkward. No matter what you do, just be honest with yourself and with your interviewers. That's all that matters. Fate determines the rest. I actually had some people thank me for being out. They said I helped change some deeply held perceptions that they had been holding onto for too long. 😎

OP- best of luck. You'll be fine.

 

[flip26]

Flip26 is just mad he can't play the homosexual card.

Don't be too sure about that...

 

[lunchbox_tragedy]

I would put it in. You've faced the classic problems associated with coming out, and they can both serve as an excuse for the GPA issues and shine in a positive light since you've obviously still held yourself together and stayed involved. Some will say "play it safe, people are closed minded", but there are plenty of schools and adcoms (if not most) where people are NOT closed minded, and in any case after what you've been through I doubt you'd want to go to a school where you'd get more flack for being gay.

 

[flip26]

I was out in my ps. The PS is a space to depict your story in the context of, among other things, "why medicine." It may not always be relevant. But for some, it just will be.

Flip--someone outing themselves takes courage. It is not a Jerry Springer audition, ass. You have made your point. We all know where you stand. If you don't have something nice to say....yup, just don't say it. And regarding Texas: yup, the Gays exist down there too. That damn lifestyle...🙄

I was offered 19 interview invites--5 at top 10-- and I applied to 24 schools.

This topic is only awkward if you make it awkward. No matter what you do, just be honest with yourself and with your interviewers. That's all that matters. Fate determines the rest. I actually had some people thank me for being out. They said I helped change some deeply held perceptions that they had been holding onto for too long. 😎

OP- best of luck. You'll be fine.

Oh, please. You are pretty full of yourself.

 

[schrizto]

Flip--someone outing themselves takes courage. It is not a Jerry Springer audition, ass. You have made your point. We all know where you stand. If you don't have something nice to say....yup, just don't say it.

I agree with this. Comparing outing yourself to Jerry Springer is insulting. That show is exploitational shock TV. It feeds off of the audience laughing at or being disgusted by people's conflicts as a form of entertainment. If you think disclosure of homosexuality is shocking/disgusting on the level of Jerry Springer, then you are very close-minded.

 

[FlowRate]

I feel like the OP has received the advice he was seeking -- most of the more eloquent members haves suggested he mention the reason he was kicked out and honorably discharged. It's an integral part of his life story.

EDIT: as for intolerant Christians:

Here's a problem I have with this attitude and people who have it. There should be no reason to single out one religion.

I have a problem with intolerant people. Saying you dislike intolerant Christians is inherently intolerant and betrays your prejudices.

LizzyM only recently acknowledged that she has been giving erroneous advice for years RE the listing of significant high school ECs on the AMCAS - she, and many others who have always cited her, had been saying it was prohibited. But she recently acknowledged that there is in fact no such prohibition in the AMCAS instructions.

My suggestion to you, and others: learn to think for yourselves.

While LizzieM may not technically have been correct about a PROHIBITION of high school activities, I have heard MULTIPLE, TOP TIER adcom members give the SAME advice. It's common sense.

 

[Bernoull]

I feel like the OP has received the advice he was seeking -- most of the more eloquent members haves suggested he mention the reason he was kicked out and honorably discharged. It's an integral part of his life story.



Here's a problem I have with this attitude and people who have it. There should be no reason to single out one religion.

I have a problem with intolerant people. Saying you dislike intolerant Christians is inherently intolerant and betrays your prejudices.



While LizzieM may not technically have been correct about a PROHIBITION of high school activities, I have heard MULTIPLE, TOP TIER adcom members give the SAME advice. It's common sense.

Spot on, you'll find intolerant/bigoted people in every race, culture, religion etc etc. It's wrong to ascribe intolerance to just one religion... It's really a human failing.

 

[rockaction]

Spot on, you'll find intolerant/bigoted people in every race, culture, religion etc etc. It's wrong to ascribe intolerance to just one religion... It's really a human failing.

yeah I'm pretty sure that fundamentalist interpretations of Islam are similarly harsh like Christianity...

in the end, it's ignorant people using religion to fuel their intolerance. that's what we all need to fight: ignorance. one person at a time.