Overqualification?

[ksiem]

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I'm confused guys.. I was talking to my brother in law today (he's a nurse) and he works with physical therapists on a daily basis. His brother is also a pta. How much more advanced are DPT responsibilities then the old MPT or older BA or even older associate programs? Is the apta just hiking up the education requirements in order to rise salary, or are there any tangible benefits in going through the current pt education. I'm getting close to graduating with a pre professional degree in kinesiology and a math minor. When it's all said in done, I will have spent 7 years in school, and probably will be in around 30k of debt. Are people getting over qualified for pt? Can you list some big responsibilities pts have that don't make it look like they just "walk people down the hallway." It seems like a common misconception from other health professionals? Thanks guys.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

How much more advanced are DPT responsibilities then the old MPT or older BA or even older associate programs?

Scope of practice and responsibilities are no different. It is simply a move to change the basic entry level qualification to a "doctorate". All health care programs in the US are moving this way. Even Nurse practitioners are trying to do this by creating a Doctor of Nursing degree. OTs and audiologists have "doctor" degrees now too. It "may" help if you want to get into academics later because the DPT programs may encourage a bit more research (some of them). Also, in academia sometimes you can argue for a higher salary if you hold a "doctorate". However, in private practice... salaries are the same, responsibilities, and scope of practice are also the same. 👍 The US PT association is just "pushing" for this to be the entry level degree in the US at all programs.

You can still (if you wanted to) go to Canada, or the UK and complete a Bachelors or Masters of Physical or Physio therapy and come back to the states and apply to be assessed as an "overseas trained PT" and the only thing this requires is an exam and at maybe 6 months of "supervised practice".

So, no... its not really a big deal. What you learn in most DPT programs is exactly the same as the other programs and your job at the end of the day is exactly the same. They are all simply first professional degrees in physical therapy.

 

[ksiem]

So.. is 7 years of school superflous? Can a guy with a 2 year associates do what I could do in 7 years? Will all of us getting DPT's be "over" qualified?

 

[ksiem]

Does anyone understand what I'm asking? I'm merely asking.. if the education a PT recieves superflous to what his career will demand? What do you all think. What do Pts here think about PA's?

Thanks

 

[callmecrazy]

So.. is 7 years of school superflous? Can a guy with a 2 year associates do what I could do in 7 years? Will all of us getting DPT's be "over" qualified?

I don't know of any point in time when a person could be a PT with a 2 year associates. If this were true, it has not been the case for some time. So the answer to that would be no, a guy with a two year associates can not practice as a PT as you could after 6 or 7 years. You could become a PTA in 2 years (though this wouldn't be a smart choice if you've already gone through an undergrad program), but the median salary difference is around $25k.

Regardless of how things were done in the past though, a large portion of programs have already switched to the DPT. In addition, I've been surprised to see the number of currently practicing pt's with a BPT or MPT that are enrolling in the transitional-DPT programs that are available. So down the road, all PTs are eventually going to be holding a DPT. I suppose this would mean that a person with a DPT could not be "over"qualified, because they are the only type of person that would be qualified.

And if 7 years sounds like too much... there are a number of programs that have 2 year DPT programs, cutting your total down to 6.

 

[truthseeker]

Does anyone understand what I'm asking? I'm merely asking.. if the education a PT recieves superflous to what his career will demand? What do you all think. What do Pts here think about PA's?

Thanks

I think what you have seen PTs do (walk patients down the hallway) is an extremely small part of what many PTs do. Some do it all day. That said, what "good" PTs do is assess safety, try to modify or correct gait deviations that may be caused by illness, or contribute to other MSK injuries.

The DPT in part, is an effort to make physical therapy a reasonable portal of entry into the healthcare system for neuromusculoskeletal dysfunction/injury. I.E. a direct access provider for low back pain, ankle sprains, headache, tennis elbow, shoulder pain, etc . . .

A physical therapist assistant is NOT trained to evaluate, they are trained to understand the language of PTs and to help implement the plan of treatment that the PT creates. The best of the PTAs develop some evaluation skills but USUALLY the depth of knowledge comes from experience. You can't nail down what PT does iff you only look at one setting. Go observe/volunteer in an outpatient clinic, preferably a privately owned sports medicine clinic and you will see an entirely different breed of PT.

 

[ksiem]

Sorry.. for the associates mishap.. I heard from somewhere that an associates years ago was sufficient for pt, I guess not. Even with the old bachelors and masters programs.. could a 7 year dpt do better than a 4 year pt? What I mean by that is... 7 years is a lot of school for a salary of 58k.. I'm engaged now.. and my fiance wants to do pt too.. We will both be in substantial debt after pt school and we will be making less money than even a pa or most rns. I don't understand why that is.. It seems like the apta just likes to bump up the pt profession to some uncanny level.. but it seems as though they have bumped it up too much.. and I am not convinced that or current.. or new coming government is going to remberse pts accordingly.

The financial aspects of a career seem to be the following ratio:
salary/time in school + all the other important stuff. ie. job satisfact

since our time in school is going up that ratio is getting smaller which isn't making pt look as desirable... when is the salary going to go up? and what makes DPT a feasible/respectable/honorable/and most importantly a justified increase from the BPT or MPT? that is what I'm trying to understand.

 

[jesspt]

The goal of the DPT is, as truthseeker said, is to make the new graduate PT ready to be a point-of-entry provider for patients with neuromusculoskeltal impairments.
The DPT curriculum includes coursework that differs from that of the MSPT. This is the course work that is typically included in the transitional-DPT programs, which are designed to bring the practicing clinician up to speed to the new, entry level graduate in certain areas where their Master's or Bachelor's preparation may have been lacking. These courses usually consist of Pharmacology, Radiology, Differential Diagnosis and Medical Screening.

So, do I think the DPT is a good idea?

Yes, because I think that PTs are best positioned to treat patients who have non-operative musculoskeltal conditions. Healthcare consumers should have access to PTs without having to go through another provider who likely knows less about managing such conditions.

Do I think it is a good investment?

No, becuase the debt to income ratio is getting to damn high.

I'll repeat what I've said in numerous other posts - get a Master's degree if you can. Then, upon graduation, find an employer that provides tuition reibursement and get in to a transitional DPT program that you cna take on evenings and weekends. You'll incur less debt and make a salary while you're getting your DPT.

 

[ksiem]

I appreciate the response.. When I start pt school.. it will be in 2010.. by then, there will hardly be any mpt programs.. and the ones that exist won't be nearby.. I will have to go out ot state.. and all the savings I could have would be totally offset by the out of state tuition. One question you didn't answer is... will pt salaries rise to the occasion of high education costs? and it will be interesting to see what effect socialized medicine will do.. if it comes into existance.

Thanks

 

[jesspt]

Salary is going to be closely tied to the reimbursement provided by insurance companies. Since they are either holding steady or slowly declining, I think we can expect that starting salaries will eventually begin to to stay about where they are now and the ceiling that a PT (who works for someone else) can make will stop increasing. Now, a private practice owner will likely still be able to make more than, say a manager at a corporate PT clinic, for example.

And, in regards to socialized medicine - almost every PT I know is hoping against hope that that doesn't come to pass. It will totally kill our reimbursement, at least in the short term.

 

[jesspt]

Also,

Since you won't be entering school until 2010, I'd be making sure that my application was stellar, so I could get into a local state school, preferably in a city/town where the cost of living is minimal. You don't want to be paying private school tuition.

 

[ksiem]

How would I go about making my application steller? I definately want to avoid private schools, but that shouldn't be too hard with where I live. Why do many people go the PT route instead of the PA route with all the recent stuff going on w/the economy and DPT program + higher tuition rates and lower salaries? Would you recommend me to stick this through? PT is very attractive to me.. however.. supporting my future wife and eventually a family.. is not going to be easy.. even if she is able to work part time.

 

[ksiem]

Also.. does financial aid assist at all w/PT school.. I know the scholarships are bare and minimal.. Thanks

 

[jesspt]

I'd make sure that you have volunteer/observation hours in a number of different settings. If possible, try to observe clinicians who are board certified specialists, That experience could be brought up in the written part of your applciation (if it's required).

Get good (read: A's) grades and do well on the GRE.

Familiarize yourself with the APTA and its Vision 2020. Make sure to mention this in the written application and interview - check out www.apta.org for more info on Vision 2020.

PT vs. PA:

I think a lot of people go into PT because it's always touted as one of the the "Hot Jobs" of the next few years, with many more job openings than applicants to fill them.

As for being a PA - I don't think it would be my cup of tea, but that's not to say that it wouldn't be yours or your future wife's. My understanding is that their ability to practice with much autonomy is pretty limited, unless you live in a very rural area. My current practice is quite autonomous. Once they have prescription in hand, I design the treatment plan, preform the treatment, modify it when necessary, etc.

 

[Dr Feel Good]

Another reason it may not be the best: there has been some talk of grandfathering in the remaining bspt and mspt that have been practicing once vision 20/20 achieves around 80-90% total DPT professionals.

If you really are keen to earn the DPT, you can go to a shorter master's program (if you can find one) then work at a facility which will reimburse you to get you t-DPT. this is actually a higher degree than the entry level doctorate (2 vs 3) and it will save you money having the institution you work for pay for it.

 

[PREMEDWOAHS]

Why do many people go the PT route instead of the PA route with all the recent stuff going on w/the economy and DPT program + higher tuition rates and lower salaries?

You're comparing apples to oranges here. PT and PA are completely different fields and regardless of salary some people have a passion for the focus on PT rather than the practice of a PA. Although PA's may have a higher salary, they tend to lack patient interaction which often times is one of the main reasons someone focuses on PT.


and for further clarification. the website is www.apta.org/vision2020 (vision 2020 article)