Overrated and Underrated Schools

[goobernaculum]

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This isn't for a flamin'. As an MS1, I look back on my application/interview process and wished I had other people's points of view on what could POSSIBLY be overrated and underrated schools (note the "POSSIBLY" in that sentence because these comments are subjective). Hopefully this thread can be useful for the current applicants. Good luck and if you post, make sure you say WHY a school is overrated or underrated.

I'll start:

Underrated:

Pitt - great facilities and faculty. The curriculum is one from which some other dean's of medical schools go to learn to improve their own curriculum (or so pitt's dean told me in person). Certainly an up and coming institution. I think USNews' rankings have them way too low.

Case Western - reminded me a lot of Pitt. The curriculum was one of the first to "modernize". Improvements continue to change for the better. They just started a loose affiliation with Cleveland Clinic so that students can do rotations there (very sweet). Facilities aren't too shabby either.

Overrated:

Hate to say it, but...Harvard - Facilities are great and so are the faculty. But if only that faculty were willing to teach. It was just one or two years ago (I believe) that the dean of the med school had to call a meeting to chastise the faculty for their lack of teaching. I also have 5 physician friends that either work with Harvard grads or students, and they have been very disappointed in them. Can someone also confirm that their Step I scores are in the 220s? Lastly, Vanderbilt Hall isn't that hot.

Columbia - The school is not so diverse as a large majority of people are ivy grads (they were a really happy bunch though). Factilities are very disappointing as are the dorms (I only saw Bard Hall). The curriculum is ancient, and I'm not sure how open the administration is to change. But if you're into the very traditional track, then this might be the place for you.

Last thought - Penn and Hopkins definitely deserve to be in the top 5 in my view. Though Hopkins' facilities are grungy, their faculty and teaching seemed to be fantastic. Also, they start the wards slightly earlier than most schools.
Penn's facilities, curriculum, and faculty are fantastic. 1.5 years of preclinical is very attractive, and they treat their med students like kings. Both Hopkins and Penn rock the boards.

More thoughts later...gotta study.


goobernaculum

 

[doc05]

Columbia, Cornell -- very overrated.

Rochester -- underrated

re: HMS:

Can someone also confirm that their Step I scores are in the 220s?

does it really matter? at all? step-1 scores matter in securing residency spots, and regardless of score, HMS grads place exceptionally well. so what does score matter?

-same story for Penn and Hopkins.

 

[goobernaculum]

OH YES...

Rochester - definitely underrated. Though many schools have gotten rid of their ambulatory rotation, Rochester goes through with it during their first two years. Also, their PBL rooms (if you're into that) are literally like no other school's in the country.

Regarding HMS...I guess the board scores kinda matter to me when considering whether a school's overrated or not. Are the HMS students getting good residencies merely due to reputation or because they've proven themselves? If it's the former, then that would mean the school's overrated because the school's not really training them well. I lean towards the latter, but, then again, I could very well be wrong.

Okay...seriuosly. gotta study.

 

[premed007]

Board scores don't necessarily determine whether a school is overrated or not. The tutorials at HMS, for example, do not prepare students for the boards but to get them thinking like physicians. If a school's curriculum is geared towards doing well on the boards, then the students will most likely perform better.

 

[AverageMan]

Rochester is definately underrated. I didn't even think that much of it until I went up there to interview, and it blew me away. It's a real diamond in the rough. As for overrated, perhaps there are a few good points about them, but I would still give my left foot to go to any one of those overrated schools, as would a lot of people 😛

 

[superdevil]

actually, although i'm an OH resident, i wouldn't say that case western is "underrated" at all. most people i know think rather highly of case. they're usually a top-20/top-25 school in USNews, too (i think....).

 

[goobernaculum]

interesting thoughts...regarding Case, I'm sure that Case has a good reputation in Ohio, but on the east coast (and maybe even the west coast), it's not very well known.

 

[Rendar5]

actually, Columbia seemed very open to changes the students had ideas about. At lesat that's what some students told me. I'm really not sure how traditional their curriculum is since they do have opportunities for MS1's and MS2's to get into a clinical setting. You just need to ask for them.

It might be over-rated, but not as much as you say.

I agree about Pitt and Rochester. I wasn't wowed by Rochester even though I know it is fantastic. just no good gut feeling for me. I was really impressed by Pitt though.

 

[Gleevec]

Overrated: WashU. For all the hype surrounding the school the curriculum is suprisingly mundane. The fact that there is a dorm and that people actually lives there just creeps me out, even if you can live elsewhere. Its all well and good that their avg mcat is like 37, but frankly, you have to be sacrificing something to keep an AVERAGE that high. Also St. Louis has all the negatives of Chicago, but lacks any of the positives (in terms of things to do, city life, etc)

Underrated: Emory. I cant believe that more people dont apply to this school. Everything is new, Atlanta is awesome, and the facilities and faculty seem great. This school definitely needs more pub, I applied to it simply because it was in Atlanta, I did not realize how awesome it would end up being.

 

[lane]

Originally posted by Gleevec

Underrated: Emory. I cant believe that more people dont apply to this school. Everything is new, Atlanta is awesome, and the facilities and faculty seem great. This school definitely needs more pub, I applied to it simply because it was in Atlanta, I did not realize how awesome it would end up being.

our baseball team kicks ass too *cough cough*

 

[spumoni620]

i haven't come across any "underrated" yet, and i hate to judge a school as "overrated"....but okay fine...columbia seemed a bit overrated to me. not that it's a bad school or anything at all of the sort. it's in nyc, true...but i'm trying to rack my brain thinking of other things that i *really* liked about the school. the tour/interview day was sparse in comparison to other schools, and i just couldn't warm to the location/surroundings. and some of the students just seemed sort of apathetic about the school. BUT it's very possible that if i'd seen more of the school/clinical facilities that day i would have warmed more to the school. i don't know, this is all very subjective and i feel nervous posting it but oh well.

just wanted to put in my vote for another great school...baylor. it's not necessarily "underrated" but i still remember how blown away i was during interview day. it's a truly amazing program at an unbelievable price (even for out-of-staters). add in the texas medical center's opportunities for clinical experiences and i think it's one of the best medical school programs out there.

 

[calebho501]

OK, I'm speaking from a West Coaster's point of view:

Underrated:
Vanderbilt--People I know were like...."Nashville errr"....
Emory--It's a very nice school but then again, many people were like..."It's in the South!"
SUNY Upstate--It's actually a decent school, although many Californians would not even try applying there

Overrated:
Harvard--It's obvious, isn't it?
UCLA/USC--It's not really the school that's overrated, but the city itself. I personally find it frustrating that L.A. has a rather weak public transportation system, and everything is just too spread out over the place. Plus the weather gets a bit too hot for me sometimes. Nevertheless, UCLA and USC are good schools 🙂

 

[TheFlash]

Overrated: Duke - I dunno, just a gut feeling at the interview. Some people swear by Duke, but it hit me as nothing explicitly amazing. Still a tremendous medical school, no doubt, but not the end all and be all of Southern schools.

Underrated: Mount Sinai - I felt at home here on the interview day, and could definitely see myself in school with the students and faculty at this welcoming place for the next 4 years. It's too bad what the "financial crisis" has done for the reputation of this school. I didn't notice any kind of lessening in the reserach facilities or the hopsital, both of which were top notch.

TF

 

[MoCookiess]

great thread!
bump

 

[VCMM414]

Originally posted by calebho501
OK, I'm speaking from a West Coaster's point of view:

Overrated:
UCLA/USC--It's not really the school that's overrated, but the city itself. I personally find it frustrating that L.A. has a rather weak public transportation system, and everything is just too spread out over the place. Plus the weather gets a bit too hot for me sometimes. Nevertheless, UCLA and USC are good schools 🙂

Actually I've always thought that USC is rather underrated. It offers excellent clinical training, and its recent Keck grant allows the school to expand rapidly in research. UCLA is neither overrated nor underrated I think. It really does offer a great education and lots of research opportunities, and UCLA hospital is great (though probably not the best place for a med student's clinical training). Also, there is an undergrad campus to make things lively (which is something that I looked for 😛).

I agree about LA though UGH. Definitely did not get a good vibe from the city both when I visited the schools and when I stayed with my relatives there this past summer.

 

[Steinway]

i agree that baylor's way underrated, but i don't know why pitt gets so much love........

 

[VCMM414]

Originally posted by Steinway
i agree that baylor's way underrated, but i don't know why pitt gets so much love........

Do people really not know about Baylor? I dunno, I've always heard great things about the school, and it is highly regarded among medical professionals (and US News). How can a school be underrated when it's so strongly ranked and praised by people in the profession? Sure many people outside of medicine may not be as familiar with Baylor, but that's probably more due to its lack of an undergrad institution (likewise, no one outside of academia really knows about UCSF either).

I'm not saying Baylor is overrated or anything, but it's not really underrated either IMHO.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by VCMM414
Do people really not know about Baylor? I dunno, I've always heard great things about the school, and it is highly regarded among medical professionals (and US News). How can a school be underrated when it's so strongly ranked and praised by people in the profession? Sure many people outside of medicine may not be as familiar with Baylor, but that's probably more due to its lack of an undergrad institution (likewise, no one outside of academia really knows about UCSF either).

I'm not saying Baylor is overrated or anything, but it's not really underrated either IMHO.

I dont think Baylor is very well known, many premeds at my undergrad didnt even know it was in Houston, they assumed it was affiliated with Baylor U in Waco (which it is not anymore) and that the school was in Waco!

Frankly, Baylor COM needs to change its name, there are too many Baylor's in TX (Baylor University in Waco, Baylor Medical Center in Dallas, Baylor College of Medicine in Houston). Its the same problem Cornell Med has, many people think its in Ithaca as opposed to NYC.

I get the impression that Baylor isnt considered on the same level as some of its peer institutions (ie Cornell, Yale) due to its location.

 

[VCMM414]

Yo Gleevec I PMed you.

 

[jwin]

Originally posted by Gleevec
Overrated: WashU. For all the hype surrounding the school the curriculum is suprisingly mundane. The fact that there is a dorm and that people actually lives there just creeps me out, even if you can live elsewhere. Its all well and good that their avg mcat is like 37, but frankly, you have to be sacrificing something to keep an AVERAGE that high. Also St. Louis has all the negatives of Chicago, but lacks any of the positives (in terms of things to do, city life, etc)

Underrated: Emory. I cant believe that more people dont apply to this school. Everything is new, Atlanta is awesome, and the facilities and faculty seem great. This school definitely needs more pub, I applied to it simply because it was in Atlanta, I did not realize how awesome it would end up being.

as a wash u alum for undergrad, i feel it my duty to speak on their behalf and point out a few things that i have gathered matter as a first year:

fascilities don't matter. emory has a climbing wall. big deal. it doesn't matter if buildings are new, are you responsible for the plumbing in your med school buildings or something? wash u does have a ton of NIH money, which means that it has some of the best researchers in the country. wash is affiliated/comprises one of the best hospitals in the country (Barnes Jewish/Children's) which means when you hit the wards your 3rd and 4th year you are going to be learning from some of the leading experts in their respective fields. these are things that mattter. lastly, curriculum is all smoke and mirrors. bottom line is the less you are in class the better. if someone doesn't have a flashy curriculum, you should jump for joy because it means they haven't jumped one of the lastest pedagogical trains named "small group, problem based learning," "patient-doctor relationship" or "introduction to clinical medicine" which are nothing but a waste of time.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by jwin
as a wash u alum for undergrad, i feel it my duty to speak on their behalf and point out a few things that i have gathered matter as a first year:

fascilities don't matter. emory has a climbing wall. big deal. it doesn't matter if buildings are new, are you responsible for the plumbing in your med school buildings or something? wash u does have a ton of NIH money, which means that it has some of the best researchers in the country. wash is affiliated/comprises one of the best hospitals in the country (Barnes Jewish/Children's) which means when you hit the wards your 3rd and 4th year you are going to be learning from some of the leading experts in their respective fields. these are things that mattter. lastly, curriculum is all smoke and mirrors. bottom line is the less you are in class the better. if someone doesn't have a flashy curriculum, you should jump for joy because it means they haven't jumped one of the lastest pedagogical trains named "small group, problem based learning," "patient-doctor relationship" or "introduction to clinical medicine" which are nothing but a waste of time.

Facilities are actually pretty important, they set the tone for everything that goes on there. Im not referring to plumbing or whatnot, that should be a given, but the general niceness of facilities also indicates how well funded the institution is. Everyone would prefer to work in a nicer building given a choice, it just adds to the ambience of a place.

Curriculum is all smoke and mirrors? I agree that the less you are in class the better, but for the time you spend in class, you might as well have it be useful. And its always nice to mix things up, which is why I like the schools with the part lecture, part PBL curricula.

Quite frankly, I dont think WashU's NIH funding or research is as important as you make it out to be, considering that it has little bearing on the quality of teaching offered. The quality of the hospital staff is important, though its more important for residency than med school as far as I gathered. It actually seemed as if students got to do way more at Grady than they did Barnes Jewish simply because the former is less funded and the med students are needed more.

Finally, I can't imagine going to a med school with an average MCAT of 36.6. There is definitely something being sacrificed in admissions to get an average that high.

Still though, WashU is a good school, its just not what I expected it to be. That's why I think its overrated. Emory I didnt have as high expectations, but was extremely impressed by the overall quality of the program. Atlanta is a much better city than St. Louis as well.

Just my 0.02.

 

[governaitor]

Under-rated: Harvard

Over-rated: Finch

 

[lane]

Originally posted by jwin
as a wash u alum for undergrad, i feel it my duty to speak on their behalf and point out a few things that i have gathered matter as a first year:

fascilities don't matter. emory has a climbing wall. big deal. it doesn't matter if buildings are new, are you responsible for the plumbing in your med school buildings or something? wash u does have a ton of NIH money, which means that it has some of the best researchers in the country. wash is affiliated/comprises one of the best hospitals in the country (Barnes Jewish/Children's) which means when you hit the wards your 3rd and 4th year you are going to be learning from some of the leading experts in their respective fields. these are things that mattter. lastly, curriculum is all smoke and mirrors. bottom line is the less you are in class the better. if someone doesn't have a flashy curriculum, you should jump for joy because it means they haven't jumped one of the lastest pedagogical trains named "small group, problem based learning," "patient-doctor relationship" or "introduction to clinical medicine" which are nothing but a waste of time.

emory's whitehead research building opened last year. they're currently building a new children's center. they're saving to build new student facilities in the near future. they have direct access to the CDC (literally 2.73 minutes down the road...by foot) and the ACS. they have multiple hospitals/healthcare centers with which they are affiliated, offering some of the best programs in the nation. you'd be kidding yourself if you said facilities don't matter - medical technology and research are changing and for those to whom that matters the facilities can play a role in their education and preparation for their careers.

plus we have a climbing wall

 

[Gbemi24]

Originally posted by Gleevec
Finally, I can't imagine going to a med school with an average MCAT of 36.6. There is definitely something being sacrificed in admissions to get an average that high.

What are they sacrificing? I commend them for being somewhat numbers oriented. I don't mind other elite schools like Harvard focusing on ECs but there also has to be schools for brilliant students who don't feel like traveling to Guatamala to prove their "altruism credentials." As high as their MCAT/GPA average is, they still reject a lot of high stats students so they are diverse.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by Gbemi24
What are they sacrificing? I commend them for being somewhat numbers oriented. I don't mind other elite schools like Harvard focusing on ECs but there also has to be schools for brilliant students who don't feel like traveling to Guatamala to prove their "altruism credentials." As high as their MCAT/GPA average is, they still reject a lot of high stats students so they are diverse.

WashU is the only school that sends out mass mail to recruit people who score above a certain threshold on the MCAT.

No other school I know of does this.

WashU isnt somewhat numbers oriented, all schools are "somewhat" numbers oriented. WashU is way more numbers oriented than any other school out there.

The comment "they still reject a lot of high stats students so they are diverse" doesnt hold much merit in my eyes, because they simply take higher stat people instead. I mean, a 36.6 MCAT average is just plain unnatural.

 

[cmudan]

Underrated: Wayne State University

Has best clinical exposure in the country.

 

[snowbear]

Originally posted by governaitor
Under-rated: Harvard

Over-rated: Finch

why do you think Finch is over-rated?

 

[VCMM414]

Originally posted by lane

they're currently building a new children's center. they're saving to build new student facilities in the near future. they have direct access to the CDC (literally 2.73 minutes down the road...by foot) and the ACS.

That's a gross underestimate. It's more like 4.47 minutes from what I could tell, and a bit farther still if you are on the opposite side of the campus 😛

Actually, where's the ACS? I know that CDC is near the school of public health, but I keep on hearing about ACS without really having seen it.

The new children's center is going to be owned by Emory? When will it be finished, and will it be a comprehensive care center? If so, wouldn't it compete directly with Egleston, since Egleston is right across the street from Emory?

More new student facilities??? Didn't they just spend major $$ building that extra nice computer lab (looks more like a computer PLAYROOM to me)? The same millions of dollars that they had LEFT OVER from their yearly budget and were required to spend (no joke)!!

Oh and is it just me or is the climbing wall not tall enough! What's the point of making it wider than it is tall? Then again I guess it's made so that it'll be safe to climb for those who are inexperienced.

 

[josehernandez94]

Gleevec,

Actually, I received emails from Medical College of Wisconsin and the University of Pittsburgh inviting me to apply. MCW explicitly stated that they were sending out the email b/c of my MCAT score and I'd have to believe the same is true for Pittsburgh. It's not like I even did THAT well on the MCAT. I think that for schools like WashU, it's just a matter of getting their name out there... they consider themselves an elite institution, but I'd have to say that among the general population and maybe even some of the pre-med population, it's not as well known as Harvard, Columbia, Duke, Yale, Stanford, etc.

Anyway, Deng could definitely be National Player of the Year... I hope he is, since no one else is playing offense!

 

[lane]

Originally posted by VCMM414
That's a gross underestimate. It's more like 4.47 minutes from what I could tell, and a bit farther still if you are on the opposite side of the campus 😛

Actually, where's the ACS? I know that CDC is near the school of public health, but I keep on hearing about ACS without really having seen it.

The new children's center is going to be owned by Emory? When will it be finished, and will it be a comprehensive care center? If so, wouldn't it compete directly with Egleston, since Egleston is right across the street from Emory?

More new student facilities??? Didn't they just spend major $$ building that extra nice computer lab (looks more like a computer PLAYROOM to me)? The same millions of dollars that they had LEFT OVER from their yearly budget and were required to spend (no joke)!!

Oh and is it just me or is the climbing wall not tall enough! What's the point of making it wider than it is tall? Then again I guess it's made so that it'll be safe to climb for those who are inexperienced.

the ACS national headquarters are on clifton rd between gatewood and houston mill, close to the 1525 building (emory healthcare clinic)

the new children's center is being built across from Turman Hall, which is off of Haygood (pretty much directly behind the Emory Clinic building A). i'm not sure what role it will play with egleston being so close, but i can tell you tomorrow morning after i see the big sign on my way to class 🙂

the cox computer lab isnt new...they just did a major overhaul last year. it used to be a big lab with cubicles and a TON of computers, but they redesigned it to be more student-friendly. granted, there are less computers now but the ones they have are pretty impressive (well...maybe the laptops they lend out arent awesome, but theyre wi-fi and you can always have a computer if you need one)

theyre spending a ton of money right now on adding another floor and renovating the WoodPEC (PE Center). i'm on the committee to find a new AD so i'll pass along your suggestion about making the climbing wall higher 😀 they have to spend the money cuz a lot of emory's money comes from donations with stipulations. for example, we have 45788932745897435984752897892475897 flowers around campus because one donation said they had to spend the money on flowers and beautification. with a few billion in the bank i think they can afford it 😉

 

[DW]

that new computer lab looks like something from austin powers 😛

damn, they're refurbishing the pec? 😱 what next....emory football? 😉

 

[exmike]

Proof WashU is a numbers *****: Check out the # of URMs they have compared to other elite schools.

 

[lane]

Originally posted by DW
that new computer lab looks like something from austin powers 😛

damn, they're refurbishing the pec? 😱 what next....emory football? 😉

STILL UNDEFEATED

 

[Cerberus]

Originally posted by lane


plus we have a climbing wall

too bad ATL is such a horrible horrible place *not a big fan of hot-as-hell southern cities*

 

[goobernaculum]

WHEW! Looks like we got a big Emory/WashU war going here. I hadn't applied to either school, but my various second-hand sources about WashU were kinda negative (e.g.- I heard all the same stuff about gunner/non-diverse class, St. Louis sucks, and their reputation comes from high scores and lots of NIH money). But, I hear the hospital and facilities are amazing, which - as someone already noted - takes part in attracting great researchers/faculty. But, all that's second-hand, so you can discount all that...haha.

I have to chime in on what I think was another underrated school (someone already listed it): Mt. Sinai.

You current applicants (and future ones). Don't let the hospital's financial woes worry you. A) the hospital is still fantastic, B) the med school is a great place (the students were really cool and I had a liking for the curriculum), and C) the location and housing are awesome (right across the street from Central Park).

Though their ranking might be justified, I felt like Mt. Sinai was getting a bad rep last year (and maybe this year) due to their financial woes. It's still a great school.

 

[jwin]

Facilities are actually pretty important, they set the tone for everything that goes on there. Im not referring to plumbing or whatnot, that should be a given, but the general niceness of facilities also indicates how well funded the institution is. Everyone would prefer to work in a nicer building given a choice, it just adds to the ambience of a place.

i am just saying not to be wowed by things like new bathrooms because they will become irrelevant once you are actually at the school (unless you have trouble with bowel movements). i could care less what my classroom looks like this year, the fact is you just sit there the whole freakin day. but anyway, wash u has lots of money, 6th largest endowment in the country or something like that, despite the appearance of olin hall.

Curriculum is all smoke and mirrors? I agree that the less you are in class the better, but for the time you spend in class, you might as well have it be useful. And its always nice to mix things up, which is why I like the schools with the part lecture, part PBL curricula.

this is my conclusion one semester into med school and the conclusion of my friends at other schools. pbl became a the trendy thing to do, and it is pretty worthless for most who have the pleasure of experiencing it.

Quite frankly, I dont think WashU's NIH funding or research is as important as you make it out to be, considering that it has little bearing on the quality of teaching offered. The quality of the hospital staff is important, though its more important for residency than med school as far as I gathered. It actually seemed as if students got to do way more at Grady than they did Barnes Jewish simply because the former is less funded and the med students are needed more.

actually your preclinical teaching will be heavily influenced by research funding. when the ph.d. parade begins, the more research dollars, the better the basic science faculty.

Finally, I can't imagine going to a med school with an average MCAT of 36.6. There is definitely something being sacrificed in admissions to get an average that high.

admittedly, their students are a bit freakish in this regard.

 

[Rendar5]

Of all the schools I visited, Washington impressed me the most. The students were all really nice and seemed to be a very close-knit group. I liked the facilities and the immediate area. I don't care if they're a bit of a numbers ***** (maybe because I did "unnaturally" well on the MCATs?)

It is near the bottom of my least, though 🙁 because I just didn't feel comfortable in St. Louis. Bad gut feeling about the city and location is one of the most important things for me. I must say that I did love Emory too. Not as much as WashU, but Grady hospital is a fantastic place to learn and that helps pull it even in my eyes.

 

[DrBodacious]

Is Finch really that bad?? I applied there as a fallback, I mean I've got a farily well-rounded app with a 34 MCAT, but if I don't get in anywhere but Finch I'd almost consider waiting a year. Especially since I am an August MCATer and was not totally on top of my applications besides that. The thing is I want to be able to get into some competitive residencies, maybe ENT surg, so I'm starting to doubt that Finch would do the trick for me. Plus they have a pretty bad rap on the interview feedback as far as the students being unhappy and the facilities leaving some things to be desired. I guess I should wait untill I start hearing about interviews from other schools and maybe check the place out for myself at the interview (I'm assuming I will get one).

Anyone think that Finch is underrated?

 

[Gleevec]

1. People will always be attracted to nicer buildings, that is a fact. Nicer facilities not only indicate good funding, but are aesthetically pleasing as well. This is not a major factor, but a secondary observation.

2. I have heard the exact opposite about PBL from my friends in med school. Most people think its a nice change of pace from boring lectures in that they actually apply what they learned. This is a matter of personal preference.

3. I dont believe there is a correlation between teaching and NIH funding. It might even be inversely proportional. This is a moot point, because there is no way for anyone to know which schools have better teaching unless theyve actually been there. That is why I did not comment on this, yet you assume that higher NIH funding means better teachers. I am extremely doubtful of this.

4. I dont think that students with high stats are necessarily less interesting or more likely to be gunners or whatnot, but to have an AVERAGE for the ENTIRE class that high means that something is going on.

In any case, while WUSTL has a good number of Nobel Laureates and good research going on, it simply doesnt seem to have the
quality of facilities or curriculum innovation that some of its peer schools have. And St. Louis doesnt seem like a very good city to live in at all. I still cant get over the fact that so many of their students live in a dorm. That's plain weird.

Originally posted by jwin
Facilities are actually pretty important, they set the tone for everything that goes on there. Im not referring to plumbing or whatnot, that should be a given, but the general niceness of facilities also indicates how well funded the institution is. Everyone would prefer to work in a nicer building given a choice, it just adds to the ambience of a place.

i am just saying not to be wowed by things like new bathrooms because they will become irrelevant once you are actually at the school (unless you have trouble with bowel movements). i could care less what my classroom looks like this year, the fact is you just sit there the whole freakin day. but anyway, wash u has lots of money, 6th largest endowment in the country or something like that, despite the appearance of olin hall.

Curriculum is all smoke and mirrors? I agree that the less you are in class the better, but for the time you spend in class, you might as well have it be useful. And its always nice to mix things up, which is why I like the schools with the part lecture, part PBL curricula.

this is my conclusion one semester into med school and the conclusion of my friends at other schools. pbl became a the trendy thing to do, and it is pretty worthless for most who have the pleasure of experiencing it.

Quite frankly, I dont think WashU's NIH funding or research is as important as you make it out to be, considering that it has little bearing on the quality of teaching offered. The quality of the hospital staff is important, though its more important for residency than med school as far as I gathered. It actually seemed as if students got to do way more at Grady than they did Barnes Jewish simply because the former is less funded and the med students are needed more.

actually your preclinical teaching will be heavily influenced by research funding. when the ph.d. parade begins, the more research dollars, the better the basic science faculty.

Finally, I can't imagine going to a med school with an average MCAT of 36.6. There is definitely something being sacrificed in admissions to get an average that high.

admittedly, their students are a bit freakish in this regard.

 

[lane]

i'd just like to point out that emory's clairmont campus apartments (opened last year) as well as the entire clairmont campus (student activities center, olympic pool, various courts and fields, etc) blow any other campus living that ive seen out of the water.

🙂

[/emorywhore]

 

[msu_doc]

I think Emory is overrated and is one of the most overpriced/full of itself medical schools period. I interviewed there and was impressed at the beautiful campus but so turned off by everything involved with the medical school that I withdrew my name.

Underrated-
Vanderbilt
UAB

 

[DW]

Originally posted by Gleevec
2. I have heard the exact opposite about PBL from my friends in med school. Most people think its a nice change of pace from boring lectures in that they actually apply what they learned. This is a matter of personal preference.

3. I dont believe there is a correlation between teaching and NIH funding. It might even be inversely proportional. This is a moot point, because there is no way for anyone to know which schools have better teaching unless theyve actually been there. That is why I did not comment on this, yet you assume that higher NIH funding means better teachers. I am extremely doubtful of this.

Providing my first year viewpoint, i pretty much agree with you in this gleevec. I along with the vast majority of my classmates love the incorporation of pbl into our curriculum, and seeing all those inane basic science facts illustrated in clinical context. it is very much personal preference, and it goes into your selection of a med school.

On point 3, you have absolutely hit the nail on the head. I'm not a student there, but for someone to assume that Wash U will have better pre clinical instruction because they have lots of NIH funding I feel is absolute nonsense. Take for instance at my school with lots of public and private research dollars, we've had a couple big wig guys in nobel prize winning groups from Rockefeller come over and lecture on some topics....and guess what? They've on occasion downright blown @ss!!!! (in my opinion at least). Give me those professors we've had who dont have 8 billion in research dollars but are excellent communicators of the material anyday of the week. Not only that, but when you have these famous researchers they can sometimes "politicize" their lectures, and you'll end up sitting around for an hour listening to their esoteric research rather than anything you should ever care to know.

bottomline is, regardless of how many damn NIH dollars your school has, you're going to have some great instructors, some dud instructors, and you'll be memorizing course syllabi and powerpoint slides till your eyes fall out anyways.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by msu_doc
I think Emory is overrated and is one of the most overpriced/full of itself medical schools period. I interviewed there and was impressed at the beautiful campus but so turned off by everything involved with the medical school that I withdrew my name.

Underrated-
Vanderbilt
UAB

What's UAB?

Vanderbilt is as expensive as Emory more or less. WashU is a bit more expensive than both, but not so much as to matter once youre dealing with ridiculous debt.

 

[Kashue]

Originally posted by Gleevec
What's UAB?

University of Alabama - Birmingham(UAB) Medical School I believe.

 

[ManchotPi]

--

 

[MSHARO]

Just FYI for those who don't like WashU's teaching facilities, they are building a new building which is suppossed to break ground this fall/winter I think. Here is a link with info about it.

http://outlook.wustl.edu/fall2003/ltc.html[/URL]

As for St. Louis debate, I guess it is all what you are looking for in a city. I went there for grad school and I really enjoyed it. I grew up in San Francisco, went to undergrad in Indiana, and for a midwest city, I found it an enjoyable place to live. While it does not have the abudntant cultural recreational activities that SF, DC, NY, Boston, etc have to offer, there is certainly enough to keep you busy. It is more affordable and there is less traffic than in Chicago, virtually all of the museums are free, Forest Park is right next to the school, Cardinal's and Blues games are only a few metro stops away, there is a great music scene, good restaurants nearby, Chicago and other midwest cities are a relatively short road trip away. Since my program was on the Med School campus, I also enjoyed the fact that there was nice, affordable housing nearby, and you are close enough to walk to the central west end for lunch. While it may not be the same as being in Boston or New York, I enjoyed it. I usually tell people who ask me about St. Louis that it is not the greatest place to visit, but it is a nice place to live. But that is just my opinion. I had friends in my class from NYC and SF who thought it was boring.

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by ManchotPi
as opposed to JHU or WashU which have one or two major hospitals and some smaller satellite rotation spots.

Why would anyone rotate anywher else but Johns Hopkins Hospital, hands down the best medical center on earth? I dont think thats an issue at all.

 

[ManchotPi]

--

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by Kashue
University of Alabama - Birmingham(UAB) Medical School I believe.

Thanks!

 

[jwin]

Originally posted by Gleevec


I dont believe there is a correlation between teaching and NIH funding. It might even be inversely proportional. This is a moot point, because there is no way for anyone to know which schools have better teaching unless theyve actually been there. That is why I did not comment on this, yet you assume that higher NIH funding means better teachers. I am extremely doubtful of this.

i went to wash u for undergrad and go to indiana for med school; the quality of my undergrad teaching was overall much better. this is what i base my statements on.