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DRABCDE

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Hi,
I am a third year Sydney Uni med student from Canada, and I am thinking of staying here after I graduate.

I had a look at the immigration department website and it says you need 2-year working experience in the related field in order to apply PR (http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/skilled-workers/ens/eligibility-employee.htm). Does that mean I cant apply for immigration until I finish PGY-2?

I am interested in surgery, but it seems like you cant get a training position unless you have a PR (http://www.surgeons.org/AM/Template...&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=21951) ...so does that mean I'll have to spend my PGY-3 doing unaccreditted training while waiting for my PR approval? Is there any way to get around this issue (eg. doing internship in area of need)?
 

bluesdude

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From what I know You can apply for PR once you're a fully registered practitioner which will happen upon finishing your internship.As for surgery,I have seen people get into training without a PR status.
 

liquid_krystale

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I am interested in surgery, but it seems like you cant get a training position unless you have a PR (http://www.surgeons.org/AM/Template...&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=21951) ...so does that mean I'll have to spend my PGY-3 doing unaccreditted training while waiting for my PR approval? Is there any way to get around this issue (eg. doing internship in area of need)?

Hi DRABCDE,

I'm kind of contemplating a similar future situation. I'm a Canadian student who is looking to complete medical school in Australia and obtain a PR, then apply for a surgical specialty training position (my currently desired specialty). I would like to get my facts straight regarding immigrating to Aus after grading and would appreciate if any other ppl who are knowledgeable about this issue could comment about obtaining PR after or even during med school.

I've perused the forum quite extensively, and I still have many questions regarding:
1) immigration timeline
-how long from application to acceptance provided you fufill points reqs?
-some say that you can apply for PR after 1 yr internship work exp, is this true, or are 2 yrs needed?

2)when do students apply for internship?

3)I've heard that Aus citizens are favored over internationals for good internship positions (major cities, large hospitals with desired specialty departments) and that to obtain a competitive and desired specialty placement, one should apply for internship to good positions that will allow one to forge relationships and make connections that will facilitate future specialty training placement. How can one overcome this barrier or is it something that can only be avoided if one gets PR before grading?

4) I've read vague and non-supported (sometimes people refer to "a friend of a friend" or "so I have heard") stories about internationals being kicking out of med school for obtaining PR during their studies, while others can stay. I was wondering if anyone can provide more detailed info on this. I'm familiar with policies for Flinders, Melbourne, and Sydney, which state that you must be placed in a domestic fee paying position first (if space allows) and then shifted to a domestic subsidized position (if space allows), and if neither of those options are available, then you will be kicked out. Does anyone know of any further details or links to policies for other universities?

I know this is a lot of questions, but thanks to all in advance for taking the time to read/answer the questions!

Cheers
 

JoeNamaMD

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Immigration for medical students can be a bit tricky, you are not considered a doctor until after you finish internship. The best way to stay is to apply for an internship in a regional or remote area of the country. There are many rural hospitals that will sponsor you for this because of the doctor shortage. The pass mark to get PR if you are applying independently is 120, if you are sponsored it is 100.

They waive the work experience requirement if you apply for PR within six months of receiving your Australian degree.

If you really want to stay in Australia, don't go home during the break, do some elective clinicals in regional hospitals where there is a staff shortage. Once you finish the internship and get PR, you will be on even footing with locals.

If you get PR during school, there is a good chance you will get kicked out, some schools will keep you and reclassify you as a full fee local.
 

shan564

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If your undergrad degree is in chem or biochem, you can get state sponsorship from NSW, which will make the permanent residency process much easier.
 

liquid_krystale

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If your undergrad degree is in chem or biochem, you can get state sponsorship from NSW, which will make the permanent residency process much easier.

I wish I'd known this before doing my undergrad LOL.
 

DRABCDE

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Thank you all for the replies =)

Shan564, do you have to be working in chem-related field in order to get NSW sponsorship? My undergrad degree is in cell biology...any luck?
 

JoeNamaMD

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Chemists in Australia are Pharmacists in the US.
 

shan564

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Chemists in Australia are Pharmacists in the US.

"Chemist" and "pharmacist" are two separate professions on the list. Also, it specifically says that degrees in "chemistry" and "biochemistry" are good enough.

Here is the link to the list:
http://www.business.nsw.gov.au/migration/pdfdocuments/Visa_Criteria_Biotech.pdf

They say that "life scientist" would work, so your cell bio degree might be good enough. You have to contact an agency called Vetassess to find out the necessary coursework... I think that if you've taken all the classes on their list, then they'll accept your degree.
 

JoeNamaMD

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Also note that you need some relevant work experience if you did not graduate from an Australian university and your graduation was not recent.
 

AJ22

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"Chemist" and "pharmacist" are two separate professions on the list. Also, it specifically says that degrees in "chemistry" and "biochemistry" are good enough.

Here is the link to the list:
http://www.business.nsw.gov.au/migration/pdfdocuments/Visa_Criteria_Biotech.pdf

They say that "life scientist" would work, so your cell bio degree might be good enough. You have to contact an agency called Vetassess to find out the necessary coursework... I think that if you've taken all the classes on their list, then they'll accept your degree.


Hey Guys,
I am new to this forum and for the last year or so I have been seriously contemplating about dentistry in australia. I am currently about to enter my final year of Bsc in biochemistry this fall. I have a gpa ~3.5 at a canadian uni till now and am thinking of becoming an australian PR and then apply to dental schools. Reading the post above posted by Shan564 about biochemists being sponsored by NSW gov was very pleasing to hear. Having said that I was a little confused about the 2 year study or 1 year work requirement. How does that work. Does it mean that after attain my biochem undergrad degree i should work as an research technician for about a year and then apply? or apply for immigration status as soon as i get my biochem degree?
Another question: Say i maintain my above GPA through my final year, what are my chances looking like for applying to any australian dental schools? Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. and special thanks to shan564 for making me aware that my biochem degree will actually be useful now.
Thanks everyone.
 

shan564

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The 1-yr work requirement and the 2-yr study requirement are only good if you work/study in Australia. You can meet the other experience requirement if you've worked 3 years out of the last 4.
 

jaketheory

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worth noting this is a sponsored visa, so you'd would have to get sponsored to be eligible. and in being sponsored, you would have to work in that designated field for at least some time. by that i mean, you could not just get your visa, land in aus and start school. they will expect you to work in your designated profession. this is why they are giving you a visa, and why the sponsoring body nominated you.

general skilled migration is another story. with that scheme, you can get your visa and do whatever you want.
 

shan564

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I think that with a chem or biochem degree, NSW doesn't require any experience.
 

jaketheory

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I think that with a chem or biochem degree, NSW doesn't require any experience.
being issued a visa will be dependent on the points test. you will need either to have been employed in a relevant position for 12 of the 24 months preceding submission of your visa application OR have finished studying for at least 2 years in Australia within the last 6 months.

further, australian uni's produce tons of science graduates. so, despite the skilled list for which shan provided a link stating the required degree is a bachelors, you are unlikely to gain sponsorship without a masters or even a PhD. a bachelors will really only get you a research assistant position unless you have considerable experience and have been very productive. the equivalent Aus degree generally required for a research assistant position is an honours bachelors. aus degrees are generally 3 years, and to be eligible to pursue a masters or phd generally requires doing an extra 4th year termed the honours year. this year is 75% research based and culminates in a ~50 page thesis which you must defend. the other 25% is attending seminars and some coursework. the aus honours degree is more comparable to US masters degree than a bachelors unless you did an honours thesis for your bachelors. but like i said, you arent likely to get a research associate position with only a bachelors, especially if it is not comparable to an Aus honours bachelors.


http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/176/eligibility-applicant.htm
 

shan564

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If you look at the requirements for state sponsorship by NSW, they say that a bachelor's degree in chem/biochem is good enough (with no experience). Then you only need 100 points on the points test.
 

jaketheory

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If you look at the requirements for state sponsorship by NSW, they say that a bachelor's degree in chem/biochem is good enough (with no experience). Then you only need 100 points on the points test.
you DO need work experience. the list provided on a link above lists "n/a" for experience required. on another NSW state dept web address it explains further:

6. Where NSW has listed ‘Experience‘ as N/A (not applicable) on the skills in demand list do I still need to meet the Department of Immigration and Citizenship (DIAC) requirement for work experience?

Yes. Unless you are an overseas student studying in Australia who qualifies for a waiver you must meet DIAC‘s work experience requirement. This is 12 months in the last 24 months working in a skilled occupation". from http://www.business.nsw.gov.au/migration/faqnew.asp#16

and like i said before, you cant just get a visa issued, hop on a plane and start med school as a PR. your PR visa will require a stated length of employment.
 

shan564

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Oh OK, that makes sense. I wonder why they said "N/A".

On the bright side, I think you only need to work 20 hrs/week to qualify. If you work during your vacations and do another 20 hrs/week for the rest of the time, then you'll meet the requirement.
 

jaketheory

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the column heading notes in parentheses that it is the recent experience required by the state of NSW. Because it lists N/A, NSW has no formal experience requirement. However, this list is for skills which NSW is willing to sponsor a permanent resident. sponsorship in and of itself does not lead to granting the permanent resident visa. after sponsership is attained, the individual must still apply through DIMA. DIMA will require the work experience.

yes, 20 hours/week to qualify. but a research technician position will not necessarily qualify you as a biochemist. a "life science technical officer" is listed as a seperate occupation, which is a 40 point occupation and not on the skilled occupation. Most major universities will require a PhD for a "research associate" (biochemist) position; however, if your employer's letter is written creatively, it could convincingly suggest you are indeed a biochemist rather than a technician (irregardless of what your actual position is). furthermore, the life scientist position listed is not a generic occupation, rather it encapsulates specialties not included in other occupations: Biophysicist, Cell Geneticist, Microbiologist (Non-Clinical), Parasitologist, Pharmacologist (Non-Clinical), Toxicologist.

see http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]?opendocument
 

shan564

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Work experience isn't required for the permanent resident visa, as long as you get points from some of the other sources. I'm not sure about biochemist, but I looked up the requirements for "chemist" and I meet them with my bachelor's degree.
 

jaketheory

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try again.

"To meet the recent work experience requirement, you must demonstrate that you have been employed in an occupation on the Skilled Occupation List (SOL) for 12 of the 24 months immediately before lodging your visa application".

this is not for points - it is a requirement. it is straight from the DIMA website for the skilled-sponsored visa (subclass 176). the list you provided above is of skilled occupations for which NSW will sponsor, thus you must meet the requirements for visa subclass 176 (or the on-shore equivalent) to get sponsored by NSW. see: http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/176/eligibility-work-experience-study.htm

yeah, you meet the minimum degree requirements for chemist with your bachelor degree. unfortunately, the minimum degree requirement is not sufficient to support your claim of being a "research associate" (biochemist or chemist). you will have to prove you are a bio/chemist by providing evidence in the form of your employment records, employee's description of your position, and employee references. If these documents do not support you being a "research associate", you wont get the visa. like i said, if they are creative, they may be able to get it past your case officer. but hey, a visa app is only $4800, so might as well try your luck anyway, right? no biggie - pocket change.

also inform the poster that if he/she wants to migrate via the sponsored route that he will need to commit to living and working in NSW for 2 years minimum. i hope he/she is not wanting to enter dental school right away.
 

shan564

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Hm... I guess I just remembered wrong. I have plenty of qualifying experience, so I must have forgotten about the requirements.
 

gamezz

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hey guys, I wanted to clarify some things regarding the Oz immigration. After you finish your MBBS in aus, can you not apply under "Skilled – Independent (Residence) visa (subclass 885)" (http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/885/eligibility-table-overseas.htm) Under this section i was thinking that you have exactly 120 points for immigration. If you are under 30, are from canada, have a nominated skilled occupation and aus qualifications, you should get 30pts+15pts+60pts+15pts. QUESTION: Now my confusion is... in the "Nominated skilled occupation" are medical graduates considered under medical practitioners and get the 60 points?? If so, we dont need any work experience and other stuff. During one of the info session for an aus medical school, they were saying that after finishing MBBS, students have enough points to apply for PR. Any info on this topic would be appreciated. thx
 

jaketheory

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you are not eligilble to apply for independent skilled migration as a medical practitioner if you just finished your medical degree. if it does not describe this on immi.gov.au, it should on doctorconnect.gov.au. To be eligible for permenant residency through this pathway, you first must have full-registration, which you cannot get until completing an internship. as noted elsewhere on this forum, it has been possible for internationals to get internships in australia, but it would not be wise to go abroad for medical school with the expectation of getting an internship without an acceptable backup plan should you find yourself unable to do so.
 

JoeNamaMD

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Definitely a good idea to have a backup plan. Find an Aussie boyfriend or girlfriend in med school, a lot of students actually do wind up meeting their partner in school.

Dental students don't have this issue, they can use their degree to immigrate into the country because a Dental degree and the passing of the required exams is what is needed to be considered a qualified dentist. Recent university graduates from Australian schools are exempt from the work experience requirement.
 

shan564

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Considering the rate at which these immigration laws change in Oz, I wouldn't be surprised if all of this information is obsolete by the time we finish med school anyway.
 

gamezz

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Considering the rate at which these immigration laws change in Oz, I wouldn't be surprised if all of this information is obsolete by the time we finish med school anyway.

ya i was thinking the same thing...
 
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gamezz

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just wondering... international students currently studying in OZ and int students planning to go to OZ in 09, wat are your plans after graduation?
Write the USMLE? or Canadian exams?
also how easy is it to get internship in rural areas in Oz??
 

JoeNamaMD

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A few years back they made international students sign a release that they would not practice medicine. It was stupid considering the severe doctor shortage many areas of the country face, it was only in 2004 that doctors were added to the skilled list.
 
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