P. Chem Anxiety

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shoopeedoop

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I'm taking physical chemistry this term. I've loved everything about my chemistry major up until this point, and my gpa is pretty decent (3.7-3.8). I'm getting As in all of my other classes, but I'm scared that I'm going to get a C+ in my senior year. The class is just impossible for me. Will this be a killer for medical schools? Should I be freaked out?
 
Take a deep breath. A single C+ in a class like P-chem will not leave your app dead in the water.
 
I would avoid taking a class knowing that you won't do well
 
I read a review on rate my professor for my pchem prof that went something along the lines of "Everyone (chem and biochem majors) has to take this class. No one wants to. The professor knows it, the students know it, so just get through it." It's totally true.

So it might kick your butt but you've got to work hard and get through it and you'll be proud of yourself at the end. For what it's worth, thermodynamics (pchem 1) and kinematics (pchem 2) aren't that bad, it's mostly the quantum stuff (pchem 2) that I couldn't wrap my head around. But who knows, maybe it'll come naturally to you! Good luck! 😉
 
During the first two years of college, I've planned to be a double major in chemistry and the humanities. As a result, I had to take P-chem first semester of my junior year. After spending less than a week in P-chem, I decided to drop the chemistry major. I had no idea what was going on in that class and decided to jump ship before my already shoddy sGPA finds it merry way to the center of the earth.

You chemistry majors have my utmost respect!
 
ProudMD said:
During the first two years of college, I've planned to be a double major in chemistry and the humanities. As a result, I had to take P-chem first semester of my junior year. After spending less than a week in P-chem, I decided to drop the chemistry major. I had no idea what was going on in that class and decided to jump ship before my already shoddy sGPA finds it merry way to the center of the earth.

You chemistry majors have my utmost respect!
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It's so unfortunate that medical schools evaluate in the way they do. It discourages people from engaging with harder material to maintain a high GPA. I love the humanities, I took loads of 400 level philosophy courses, and always got great grades, and enjoyed it. but chemistry is a challenge and I love it too. Med school doesn't really encourage people to push themselves when they view an upper division philosophy course the same as they view P. Chem.

And it always bothered me that my pre-med friends were always looking to avoid a challenge. Everyone takes the renowned "easy" gen-eds even if they don't care about them. It's a major frustration for me that classes are about grades rather than academic enthusiasm, and becoming a better person.

I wish there was more room for taking risks, exploring challenges, and engaging with difficult material for the simple reason that I want to push myself.
 
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If you took a formal Calc-3 course (Multivariable calculus), differential equations and linear algebra, P-chem 1 is essentially taught as a math course, i.e., mixture of the aforementioned courses with applications to General Chemistry. Is the pre-requisite to P-chem 1 in your school Gen Chem 1/2, and Calculus 2? While those are "enough," those extra math courses will really go a long way in doing well in the advanced chemistry courses such as physical and upper-level inorganic. I have observed that the major barrier for students doing well in P-chem is learning all those maths in a constrained period of one semester. If you plan on taking P-chem 2, i.e. Quantum/Spectroscopy, having taking a course in Abstract Algebra is very helpful. As an example, having a solid understanding in groups and symmetry will go a long way in understanding the quantum behavior of chemistry.

I guess your issue is the fear of getting a C+ in your class and hence having a negative impact on your medical school applications. If you are keeping up with the class average/median, most major Universities curve that to a B/B- range. Just looking at your work ethic (3.78 GPA in chemistry), I can wager some imaginary dollars that you'll be getting at least a B, and maybe a B+ or higher! 🙂 In fact, having a physical chemistry course graded on an absolute scale would be pretty batsh*t insane . . . there would be a ton of chemistry people jumping on the biology ship if that was the case lol. A 40/45 average was pretty typical on any physical chemistry exam - I found out those students got a B, 50-60 was a B+, and anything higher than a 60 was an A-/A/A+. These students in the latter category had a math minor or double math major.

The best of luck! :soexcited:
 
A lot of my friends took classes that they knew would be easy for their general education requirements to avoid risking a B, but I wanted to
PharmDCandidate2014 said:
If you took a formal Calc-3 course (Multivariable calculus), differential equations and linear algebra, P-chem 1 is essentially taught as a math course, i.e., mixture of the aforementioned courses with applications to General Chemistry. Is the pre-requisite to P-chem 1 in your school Gen Chem 1/2, and Calculus 2? While those are "enough," those extra math courses will really go a long way in doing well in the advanced chemistry courses such as physical and upper-level inorganic. I have observed that the major barrier for students doing well in P-chem is learning all those maths in a constrained period of one semester. If you plan on taking P-chem 2, i.e. Quantum/Spectroscopy, having taking a course in Abstract Algebra is very helpful. As an example, having a solid understanding in groups and symmetry will go a long way in understanding the quantum behavior of chemistry.

I guess your issue is the fear of getting a C+ in your class and hence having a negative impact on your medical school applications. If you are keeping up with the class average/median, most major Universities curve that to a B/B- range. Just looking at your work ethic (3.78 GPA in chemistry), I can wager some imaginary dollars that you'll be getting at least a B, and maybe a B+ or higher! 🙂 In fact, having a physical chemistry course graded on an absolute scale would be pretty batsh*t insane . . . there would be a ton of chemistry people jumping on the biology ship if that was the case lol. A 40/45 average was pretty typical on any physical chemistry exam - I found out those students got a B, 50-60 was a B+, and anything higher than a 60 was an A-/A/A+. These students in the latter category had a math minor or double math major.

The best of luck! :soexcited:
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Wow! thank you so much for taking the time to be so encouraging and thoughtful. I really appreciate it.
 
shoopeedoop said:
It's so unfortunate that medical schools evaluate in the way they do. It discourages people from engaging with harder material to maintain a high GPA. I love the humanities, I took loads of 400 level philosophy courses, and always got great grades, and enjoyed it. but chemistry is a challenge and I love it too. Med school doesn't really encourage people to push themselves when they view an upper division philosophy course the same as they view P. Chem.

And it always bothered me that my pre-med friends were always looking to avoid a challenge. Everyone takes the renowned "easy" gen-eds even if they don't care about them. It's a major frustration for me that classes are about grades rather than academic enthusiasm, and becoming a better person.

I wish there was more room for taking risks, exploring challenges, and engaging with difficult material for the simple reason that I want to push myself.
Click to expand...
Agreed unfortunately they demand a high GPA and a lot of coursework.

I went from being able to comfortably graduate on time to taking an extra 1 semester after the 2015 MCAT and after realizing that certain med schools have more asinine requirements. I can't take more than 15-16 credits, or more than 2 non-joke science courses, without risking a sub-3.7 for the semester, which limits my schedule. My major is a watered down science one, and I won't be able to major in neurobio or biochem like I'd wanted to because, like another poster said, I have to protect my GPA like it's my baby. Hell, I'm padding my next semester with fluff I don't care about because I need to dedicate my time to orgo 2 and physics 2.
 
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shoopeedoop said:
A lot of my friends took classes that they knew would be easy for their general education requirements to avoid risking a B, but I wanted to



Wow! thank you so much for taking the time to be so encouraging and thoughtful. I really appreciate it.
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No problem. 🙂 A good/positive mindset goes a long way!

shoopeedoop said:
It's so unfortunate that medical schools evaluate in the way they do. It discourages people from engaging with harder material to maintain a high GPA. I love the humanities, I took loads of 400 level philosophy courses, and always got great grades, and enjoyed it. but chemistry is a challenge and I love it too. Med school doesn't really encourage people to push themselves when they view an upper division philosophy course the same as they view P. Chem.

And it always bothered me that my pre-med friends were always looking to avoid a challenge. Everyone takes the renowned "easy" gen-eds even if they don't care about them. It's a major frustration for me that classes are about grades rather than academic enthusiasm, and becoming a better person.

I wish there was more room for taking risks, exploring challenges, and engaging with difficult material for the simple reason that I want to push myself.
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree: it's a disturbing trend but one I don't see going away anytime soon with the increasing number of applications to medical school. But who knows, your very friends who didn't want to take risks and enjoyed taking the easy/memorize-y way out through school just might be working FOR you, the owner who wasn't afraid to face a challenge and be creative, one day, at a private medical practice . . . which by the way hopefully still exists years down the road even with Obumercare/ACA coming in full force, but that's a topic for another time.
 
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I walked into P-chem like I was some hot shot chemist ready to balance a couple reactions and point out the Alkaline Earth metals when called upon...

lawl

OP, I rode a giant curve in that class and landed a B. I don't know what your class specifics are but just give it your best. One C in a worst case scenario won't kill your app.
 
shoopeedoop said:
It's so unfortunate that medical schools evaluate in the way they do. It discourages people from engaging with harder material to maintain a high GPA. I love the humanities, I took loads of 400 level philosophy courses, and always got great grades, and enjoyed it. but chemistry is a challenge and I love it too. Med school doesn't really encourage people to push themselves when they view an upper division philosophy course the same as they view P. Chem.

And it always bothered me that my pre-med friends were always looking to avoid a challenge. Everyone takes the renowned "easy" gen-eds even if they don't care about them. It's a major frustration for me that classes are about grades rather than academic enthusiasm, and becoming a better person.

I wish there was more room for taking risks, exploring challenges, and engaging with difficult material for the simple reason that I want to push myself.
Click to expand...
Same, I can't imagine what they think medical school must be like, where you have to actually work. Coincidentally my chem major GPA brings my bio major GPA up. And though most of my humanities courses were easy A's on the whole they bring my GPA down. I guess my transcript never got the memo.
 
PharmDCandidate2014 said:
No problem. 🙂 A good/positive mindset goes a long way!



I absolutely agree: it's a disturbing trend but one I don't see going away anytime soon with the increasing number of applications to medical school. But who knows, your very friends who didn't want to take risks and enjoyed taking the easy/memorize-y way out through school just might be working FOR you, the owner who wasn't afraid to face a challenge and be creative, one day, at a private medical practice . . . which by the way hopefully still exists years down the road even with Obumercare/ACA coming in full force, but that's a topic for another time.
Click to expand...


You are blowing this out of proportion. Taking a harder P-Chem class isn't going to change a thing and isn't much of a creative class anyhow. Take a bioengineering or chemical engineering upper level course and you will see how challenge and creativity play out.

If a student really wants to challenge themselves they can audit a class or take it pass/fail without hurting their GPA. I did this for some programming classes and had a blast. You can also learn things outside of classes on your own. Some people do graduate with high GPAs in Chem majors too ...
You just have to be honest with what your capabilities are and make smart choices. This doesn't mean always choosing the easier courses but if you really want to learn something that's not your strong point, you don't have to necessarily enroll in a class or take it for a grade.
 
godawg300 said:
You are blowing this out of proportion. Taking a harder P-Chem class isn't going to change a thing and isn't much of a creative class anyhow. Take a bioengineering or chemical engineering upper level course and you will see how challenge and creativity play out.

If a student really wants to challenge themselves they can audit a class or take it pass/fail without hurting their GPA. I did this for some programming classes and had a blast. You can also learn things outside of classes on your own. Some people do graduate with high GPAs in Chem majors too ...
You just have to be honest with what your capabilities are and make smart choices. This doesn't mean always choosing the easier courses but if you really want to learn something that's not your strong point, you don't have to necessarily enroll in a class or take it for a grade.
Click to expand...

300+ chemical engineering level courses are one sure way to accelerate the aging process . . . lol

But ya, P/NC or even auditing a class is a pretty good option/safe bet. Not sure the OP has that option as most deadlines have passed. Useful for future reference, though.
 
I'm in pchem too, on the edge of my seat about my grade as well...

It's a tough class, and I feel your pain. Harass the teacher for extra credit and make up opportunities. That's what I do and it sometimes pays off.

Study like for the final like nobody's business...usually if you ace the final you can help your grade a lot...
Pm me if you have course-specific questions, I *might* be able to help 🙂
 
I feel your pain! I took pchem my Junior year (full year required for biochem majors) and it was the bane of my existence, especially quantum. Just do the best you can! I thought I got destroyed in that class but ended up with a good grade. Pchem is a notoriously hard class, so don't worry about one grade affecting your med school chances. 🙂
 
I got an A in P-chem and I'll be the first to say "don't take P-chem if your goal is to get into medical school". The course offers nothing of value to the medical curriculum or the MCAT.
 
Fellow chemistry major here! I too struggled with physical chemistry. I was a bit too starry-eyed about the excitement of explaining the world in atoms and molecules to notice that I was not particularly gifted in the physics and math parts of chemistry.

My GPA suffered a bit, and yours will too, whether you get a C+ or a B. However, one grade, or even a few, is not going to destroy a GPA.

1. Try calculating your GPA with the C+, assuming you can come out pretty well in future semesters. Also, keep in mind that if you have good ECs, MCAT, research and clinical experiences, you just need to come out with a 3.5 to be competitive.

2. Make a plan for the rest of your credits. Don't take quantum chemistry if it's not required by your chemistry department (mine strongly suggested quantum chemistry and linear algebra, but I chose not to take them).

3. Take the remaining chemistry courses you have to take to graduate and shoulder through them.

4. Take some other courses that you are better at and will ace on the side to help out your GPA.

5. Study hard for the MCAT. An amazing MCAT can really make up for a lower end GPA, especially if the GPA can be explained away by your major or university.

I'd advise you to back out of your major, but I think it might be too late for that. Look into switching majors if future courses heavily lean on your knowledge of pchem (which is what mine did, unfortunately). Good luck!

EDIT: My experience so far this cycle has been that medical schools do understand major difficulty and competitive colleges. I've done very well with low and mid tier MD schools, despite a mediocre GPA and slightly above mediocre MCAT.
 
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I think I legitimately hurt my PI's feelings when I told him, no I don't like physics and no, I definitely don't like pchem (he's a physicist by training and runs a pchem lab now). Sorry not sorry.

For the people that "get" PChem, all the power to you. I only liked it for the math - the book I used wrote about the concepts in some sort of pseudo-English that really meant nothing to me.

I kick myself everyday for not being a business major... what a nice, boring life...
 
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lumpyduster said:
I think I legitimately hurt my PI's feelings when I told him, no I don't like physics and no, I definitely don't like pchem (he's a physicist by training and runs a pchem lab now). Sorry not sorry.

For the people that "get" PChem, all the power to you. I only liked it for the math - the book I used wrote about the concepts in some sort of pseudo-English that really meant nothing to me.

I kick myself everyday for not being a business major... what a nice, boring life...
Click to expand...

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't business degree-holders (even MBAs) have difficulty finding good and relevant employment? I've heard of countless stories of the business equivalent of the "barrister barista".
 
ProudMD said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't business degree-holders (even MBAs) have difficulty finding good and relevant employment? I've heard of countless stories of the business equivalent of the "barrister barista".
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Oh I actually have no clue. I meant more along the lines of business as my major rather than chemistry and math haha. It may just be at my school that the business major is a bit of a joke (no class on Fridays, free food is readily available during the one week per year that they have this big project to do...)
 
I absolutely feel your pain. I am in PChem now, and I utterly despise it. Math and physics are NOT my things -- I really prefer organic chemistry and biochem. I honestly almost didn't major in chemistry because I was so reluctant to take PChem. From reading the posts on here, sounds like we are in good company in our hatred of this class.

All I can say is good luck and power through this!
 
sunflower18 said:
I absolutely feel your pain. I am in PChem now, and I utterly despise it. Math and physics are NOT my things -- I really prefer organic chemistry and biochem. I honestly almost didn't major in chemistry because I was so reluctant to take PChem. From reading the posts on here, sounds like we are in good company in our hatred of this class.

All I can say is good luck and power through this!
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It was a smart thing to take it in the semester you are getting your acceptances 🙂
 
allantois said:
It was a smart thing to take it in the semester you are getting your acceptances 🙂
Click to expand...

You could argue that it was also a very dumb thing to take it in the semester where I've missed literally 1/3-1/2 of the classes hahaha. But yes I just have to maintain a decent enough grade to not get my acceptances rescinded and I'm golden, which is certainly a relief.
 
I'm in PChem 1 now, and as a biochem major, I'm only required to take the 1st semester. Hate the class, hate the teacher...blah, blah, miserable bs. Sitting on the C+/B- line, which in any other class would make me flip my ****, but I'll be happy just to be done with this, however the grade turns out.

Walked in today and the prof is giving a rah-rah talk about registering for 2nd semester PChem, because the sign-up is low enough that it's in danger of being cancelled (need 12. 14 in the class now, only 8 registered for PC2). She turns to me, as I walked in a minute late, and says "Are you planning on taking it next semester?" clearly wanting to talk me into it.

Me: "Nooope."

Thinking: 'not for love or money could you get me to sign up for a second round of this level of abuse'. And I like chemistry...

OP- take your C+ and run. No shame in this one, especially if everything else is an A.
 
I know professor of PChem at my school goes out of his way looking for chemistry majors and then telling them the class is not math heavy.

Guess what? Apparently it is almost entirely pure calculus 😀
 
I am in pchem and quantum chem and spectroscopy right now... during interview season... where I've missed at least a third of the days of class. I thought I was wise planning the hardest classes of my degree for AFTER my app was submitted .... I'm actually sitting around A- range in both so it's not that bad. My quantum professor has us doing the difficult math on homework assignments then tests are purely qualitative and honestly it's all make belief so I just go with it 🙄. And I agree with the poster above about how pre-meds avoid difficult classes for fear of gpa damage... I am a little guilty of that as I was interested in engineering but an acceptance to an MD school was more important than my undergrad degree

not to mention adcoms salivate over lame easy degrees like music and humanities because they are "different😍" ...... :vomit:
 
Do the best you can OP and just pass it. Trust me, I feel your pain. We were required to take I & II. I don't even know how many times I've cried in this class. For me, it was THE hardest class out of all my chem classes and I am a biochem major.
 
I'm in it right now and have an exam in the morning. 🙁 Right. Before. Finals.
 
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Ended up getting that C+, but got a 3.5 gpa for the term with my other upper division courses in chem and bio all being As. Do you guys know if med schools care if we have Cs if we balance them with As? Is a mix of Bs and As better than 4 As and a C+? Never had a C before so I'm definitely getting myself a tutor next term...
 
sunflower18 said:
You could argue that it was also a very dumb thing to take it in the semester where I've missed literally 1/3-1/2 of the classes hahaha. But yes I just have to maintain a decent enough grade to not get my acceptances rescinded and I'm golden, which is certainly a relief.
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Hope it went better for you than it did for me! Congrats on all the acceptances. I looked at your md apps and it looks like a dream year for you 🙂
 
shoopeedoop said:
Hope it went better for you than it did for me! Congrats on all the acceptances. I looked at your md apps and it looks like a dream year for you 🙂
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I got a B, which is a relief based on how much I struggled with the material! Ended up with a 3.5 this semester, just like you. Sorry to hear about your C+ -- hopefully some others will chime in with more insight into how med schools evaluate that. Great job on the straight As in the other classes!

Thank you so much! I feel so honoured to have had these opportunities 🙂 the waiting for my top choice schools to release decisions is somewhat nerve-wracking, but I'm incredibly grateful to know I'm going somewhere next year.
 
amad01 said:
I am in pchem and quantum chem and spectroscopy right now... during interview season... where I've missed at least a third of the days of class. I thought I was wise planning the hardest classes of my degree for AFTER my app was submitted .... I'm actually sitting around A- range in both so it's not that bad. My quantum professor has us doing the difficult math on homework assignments then tests are purely qualitative and honestly it's all make belief so I just go with it 🙄.
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turns out I got a 4.0 ! I guess I could update some schools now lol 😎
 
I have prepared to become a increase important inside chemical make up along with the humanities.
Ip7OZO
 
Lucca said:
What strategies did you use to ace P-chem? Tis probably in my future soon... not next semester but the one after that.
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Biggest issue I had was remembering how to do all the math lol... I took calc 3 almost two years ago so I really had to brush up on everything. Get ready to be stressed and learn how to handle it because I look back and was freaking out way too much... usually for undergrad classes you can go to youtube or whatever and learn but I had trouble finding certain topics of thermodynamics, pchem, quantum chem, and when I don't understand things I get really frustrated. I was in the professors office a couple times a week with questions. Make sure you have the solutions manual. I didn't buy any books just scan them from the library. Pray for a hefty curve.
 
Just what helped me with the quantum part of pchem: read a lot about the development of quantum mechanics, brush up on linear algebra/dif eq/advanced math, invest in a book with a good solutions manual. Bohm's Quantum Theory was a good reference (written at a higher level than undergrad pchem, but very thorough if you're stuck). I got rocked a bit by thermodynamics but did really well in quantum--maybe you'll understand the quantum stuff better than the thermodynamics stuff 🙂
 
When I took p-chem last year I went straight to drop the class after the midterm because I thought I failed but there was a really long line at the office so I though -oh, i'll just go monday since I had another midterm the next day( and hadn't studied yet because of my p-chem exam)
so I went in the next day and turns out the day before was the deadline to drop a class so I was stuck in p-chem after all!
But, my fear made me study an excessive amount and I got the highest grade lol
so it brought my GPA up.....
 
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