P/F and competitiveness.

[Lanced]

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An important criteria for me is to end up at a school with a cooperative, cohesive student body. One in which students truly help each other out and feel connected to their class mates.

I've heard it argued that P/F does not ensure a cooperative environment because there are still class rankings. Can anyone comment on this?

I'm specifically thinking about Emory and Georgetown. I've heard both can be competitive, but want to know if it really is any different anywhere else.

Thanks

 

[Tangent]

I am at VCU and we use Honors, High Pass, Pass, Marginal, Fail- which is basically a,b,c,d,f but our grades aren't curved. There is a standard % for each grade which is meant to eliminate competition, so that potentially everyone in the class could honor

 

[JonnyG]

Another thing that cuts down on competition is a scribe service. Everyone has the notes so there is no effort to try and "sabotage" others. Plus you canmiss a day or all of them and never fall behind.

Also with pass/fail many schoosl will retain you grades for use in class rank which will appear in your deans letter for residency applications. You are still grades but you just don't know your grade.

 

[veenut]

i can't comment on how it is at other schools, but at emory the classes are not curved. theoretically, everyone can get an A. the student body here is not competitive at all, people have been terrific about posting their study guides online for everyone to use, and forming study groups to help learn the material. PM me if you have any other questions

-M1 at emory

 

[silas2642]

Tufts is pretty friendly; virtually no competition. Of course, I've been here less than two months and I'm sure we have plenty of gunners because every class does... I just haven't identified them yet. Our curriculum is H/P/F, and our class isn't ranked.

 

[colbgw02]

Another thing that cuts down on competition is a scribe service. Everyone has the notes so there is no effort to try and "sabotage" others. Plus you canmiss a day or all of them and never fall behind.

i wouldn't say there is no effort. before our scripts were posted online, some people would steal the lecture notes out of other people's boxes to make it harder for others to learn that material.

my point is that there are always a handful of super competitive people who would stab their own grandmother in the back if they thought it would help them get a better grade.

 

[Lanced]

Thanks all.

Do ya'll feel close to your class mates? Is there a sense of camraderie within the class or is it less cohesive?

 

[Law2Doc]

i can't comment on how it is at other schools, but at emory the classes are not curved. theoretically, everyone can get an A. the student body here is not competitive at all, people have been terrific about posting their study guides online for everyone to use, and forming study groups to help learn the material. PM me if you have any other questions

-M1 at emory

Curving is never the issue. The worst competition I've ever seen in higher education involved schools with no curve.
Honors, AOA, class rank are the issues. If your school has any of these there will be folks who are competitive and want them. So sure everyone can "theoretically" get an A, but there will be competition if there is still any sort of brass ring that not everyone gets (like honors, a top rank, AOA).
You are a first year, so you haven't had many tests and your exposure is still pretty limited -- Give it some time -- as people realize who's a threat and who isn't you may see more evidence of competition than now. If you are lucky and your school is an anomaly you won't.

 

[SeventhSon]

to offer my 2 cents, for what it's worth.. i think that competitveness among students is a terrible way to pick a school. It's kind of a luck-of-the-draw thing. Almost all students will tell you that students will help each other out. Also, even at second look lots of the poeple you meet will not end up being in your class. I <3 my class 😍 and i dont think the grading system changes people's mentality that much. People want to have friends, and when you dont have time to indulge in all your hobbies, group-studying is the only way to be social.

 

[Lanced]

to offer my 2 cents, for what it's worth.. i think that competitveness among students is a terrible way to pick a school. It's kind of a luck-of-the-draw thing. Almost all students will tell you that students will help each other out. Also, even at second look lots of the poeple you meet will not end up being in your class. I <3 my class 😍 and i dont think the grading system changes people's mentality that much. People want to have friends, and when you dont have time to indulge in all your hobbies, group-studying is the only way to be social.

I think that's a good point. I guess I'm looking a competitiveness as a proxy for the general cultural environment and ultimately for student happiness.

Ultimately, I want to choose a school based primarily on how I happy I think I will be there -- as everyone has said you can get a great education anywhere and I know I'll do best when I feel engaged and connected to my class.

 

[Keg]

Wash U (P/F first year, graded second-fourth year (no curve, though)) has really helpful, non-competitive students... guess we got it all out of our systems in undergrad 🙂

 

[medicomel]

choose a school that has a set percentage of what the pass level is. it doesn't exactly limit the competition, as other posters have mentioned the scramble for Honors and AOA, but it does take some of the pressure of passing off the table. that way you can set your own goals for honors without worrying if somebody is going to stab you in the back. with that said, my school has a lot of people vying for honors. if i get it, that's great, but it's not going to define my medical school experience.

 

[Tristy]

Well, I'm at Jeff and I don't even see the point of being in an H/P/F grading system 😕 Yeah, it may be less traumatic to see a P instead of a C in your transcript heheh, but c'mon....I mean, we still get a percentage for our final grades, which inevitable translates into your class rank ---> you still have the competition that the school was trying to get rid of in the first place. I don't know, maybe I'm totally wrong but that's what I understand so far 😕

MSI (so pretty much a rookie 😉)

 

[temmie]

I might sound really silly but i think pass/fail is the best thing that ever happened to any med school. I am a student at UCSF and i can tell you it's the best school ever, from an academic , social and other point of views.
ALthough it's' pass/fail, we are still studying out butts off for our exam this friday but what makes a difference is the fact that we are all working co opoeratively together, helping each other, and it's like a cool family.
Honestyly if anyone is trying to decide what med school to go to, i can tell you that this is one of the best places to be.
ok now i can go to bed

 

[veenut]

Curving is never the issue. The worst competition I've ever seen in higher education involved schools with no curve.
Honors, AOA, class rank are the issues. If your school has any of these there will be folks who are competitive and want them. So sure everyone can "theoretically" get an A, but there will be competition if there is still any sort of brass ring that not everyone gets (like honors, a top rank, AOA).
You are a first year, so you haven't had many tests and your exposure is still pretty limited -- Give it some time -- as people realize who's a threat and who isn't you may see more evidence of competition than now. If you are lucky and your school is an anomaly you won't.

yeah well i guess there will be gunners everywhere. but at least for now, our class dynamic is shifted more towards being more helpful to each other than cutthroat. hopefully that won't change as we go on...