P/F system first 2 years

[bubabugster]

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Our school is P/F fir the the first two years but does anyone know if you are still ranked by the med school and if this info is made available to residency programs once applying in 4th year? If this happens, I don' really see the point of a P/F system, but how important is rank in the first two years of med school when applying to competitive specialties? Thanks!

 

[lord_jeebus]

Our school is P/F fir the the first two years but does anyone know if you are still ranked by the med school and if this info is made available to residency programs once applying in 4th year? If this happens, I don' really see the point of a P/F system, but how important is rank in the first two years of med school when applying to competitive specialties? Thanks!

It depends on your school, so you should direct your question to whoever writes your MSPE.

If there's a rank, it would reflect all 4 years; there would be no separate "first two years" rank.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Our school is P/F fir the the first two years but does anyone know if you are still ranked by the med school and if this info is made available to residency programs once applying in 4th year? If this happens, I don' really see the point of a P/F system, but how important is rank in the first two years of med school when applying to competitive specialties? Thanks!

Preclinical class rank aren't unimportant, but it's certainly trumped by LORs, Clinical Grades, and board scores.

That said, you're going to have to ask your school if they secretely tabulate rank. Some schools are absolutely preclinical pass fail (and rank based on clinical grades). Others do rough break down in quartile/quintile. Others will absolutely rank you based on #. Only way is to corner an administrator and make them spill the beans.

 

[The Buff]

Only way is to corner an administrator and make them spill the beans.

Or get your whole class to email your dean, like my class did. Amazing what "you have 160 new messages" can do.

 

[Depakote]

I would be surprised if there was not some ranking system in place. There needs to be some way they can evaluate for AOA and scholarships. I would assume this info is provided with your residency application, however as stated above, I don't believe your yr 1 and 2 rank is factored nearly as much as other criteria such as USMLE scores, LORs and clinical grades.

 

[notdeadyet]

If there's a rank, it would reflect all 4 years; there would be no separate "first two years" rank.

Actually, schools that are true P/F (in which no score is recorded or ranking given for first/second year), ranking is done based on performance in years three/four and (for some schools) Step 1 is taken into account.

 

[braluk]

My school has a semi-ranking system for a P/F system. The rank is done in quartiles so you don't get ranked numerically but you will be ranked in groups (1st quartile, 2nd quartile...4th)

 

[bubabugster]

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Green Chimneys]

Our school has a 4 tiered system (H, HP, P, F) like many others, but they absolutely do rank us, although they refuse to admit to this fact. If you ask them, they won't answer the question directly. However, our academic adviser gets our grade report which has a class rank for each exam and overall printed right there on it. Unfortunately, they are not allowed to let us see this report and supposedly get in big-ass trouble if we are caught viewing a copy. I don't know definitively if this rank goes on the Dean's letter, but I can't imagine any other reason we would be ranked. Overall we are treated like little children who can't handle the truth.

So every school does it differently, but just because your school says one thing doesn't mean they aren't doing something completely different behind closed doors. Glad I'm paying 38 grand a year for this kind of transparency and student focused education.👎

 

[pseudoknot]

Our school is P/F fir the the first two years but does anyone know if you are still ranked by the med school and if this info is made available to residency programs once applying in 4th year? If this happens, I don' really see the point of a P/F system, but how important is rank in the first two years of med school when applying to competitive specialties? Thanks!

According to the website for UC Davis AOA, they do elect members in both the junior and senior years, so they must be ranking you guys at least for that purpose. Most likely this information is provided on the MSPE as well, but if you're concerned about it you really ought to just ask your administration. They shouldn't get mad at you for curiosity.

 

[Viridae]

According to the website for UC Davis AOA, they do elect members in both the junior and senior years, so they must be ranking you guys at least for that purpose. Most likely this information is provided on the MSPE as well, but if you're concerned about it you really ought to just ask your administration. They shouldn't get mad at you for curiosity.

AOA doesn't have to be based on preclinical class rankings -- the schools determine their own criteria for election. Not that I have any idea about how UC Davis does it, but just because a school has AOA doesn't mean that there are rankings in the preclinical years.

 

[pseudoknot]

AOA doesn't have to be based on preclinical class rankings -- the schools determine their own criteria for election. Not that I have any idea about how UC Davis does it, but just because a school has AOA doesn't mean that there are rankings in the preclinical years.

Junior AOA would have to be based on either preclinical grades or Step I, right? According to the AOA constitution you have to be in the upper quartile of the class to be eligible. Realistically it's hard to see how they can decide this without looking at preclinical grades. I think that other schools that are really, truly P/F for the first two years don't have AOA or base it on 3rd year grades. Anyway, this is just an inference, and the definitive answer on Davis needs to come from their administration.

 

[samenewme]

Our school has a 4 tiered system (H, HP, P, F) like many others, but they absolutely do rank us, although they refuse to admit to this fact. If you ask them, they won't answer the question directly. However, our academic adviser gets our grade report which has a class rank for each exam and overall printed right there on it. Unfortunately, they are not allowed to let us see this report and supposedly get in big-ass trouble if we are caught viewing a copy. I don't know definitively if this rank goes on the Dean's letter, but I can't imagine any other reason we would be ranked. Overall we are treated like little children who can't handle the truth.

So every school does it differently, but just because your school says one thing doesn't mean they aren't doing something completely different behind closed doors. Glad I'm paying 38 grand a year for this kind of transparency and student focused education.👎

It's probably a FERPA violation for them to refuse to let you see your records, assuming they get any federal educational funds at all (like, oh, probably federal student loans?). They absolutely can't let you see OTHER students' records, so if the rankings and scores are in a list they're right not to let you see them, but they are supposed to have a procedure in place for you to request access to your own educational records. Whether it's worth arguing with the administration about, I can't say.

 

[notdeadyet]

Junior AOA would have to be based on either preclinical grades or Step I, right? According to the AOA constitution you have to be in the upper quartile of the class to be eligible. Realistically it's hard to see how they can decide this without looking at preclinical grades. I think that other schools that are really, truly P/F for the first two years don't have AOA or base it on 3rd year grades. Anyway, this is just an inference, and the definitive answer on Davis needs to come from their administration.

Here's the scoop at Davis: the first two years are true P/F, no scores and no rankings. Third and fourth year is Honors/Pass/Fail. Third year students are ranked based on third year clerkship scores and Step 1 performance.

I'm not sure how other P/F schools with AOA do it. It may be easier to swing this at Davis because we have an accelerated schedule for years 1 and 2 (shorter breaks, earlier start) so that we take Step 1 in February, after which we start third year clerkships.

 

[notdeadyet]

Our school is P/F fir the the first two years but does anyone know if you are still ranked by the med school and if this info is made available to residency programs once applying in 4th year? If this happens, I don' really see the point of a P/F system, but how important is rank in the first two years of med school when applying to competitive specialties? Thanks!

Bugabugster- Let me know if that clears things up. I asked the school the same question you're asking here.

(We're actually classmates; hope your physio studying is going faster than mine....)

 

[popbirch]

the other thing to consider is that most schools 3rd year has as many credits as the first two years put together. So even if you are in a P/F system your final ranking when your graduate will be more impacted by your performance in years 3/4 than 1/2.