P/F system limit competitiveness?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

dulop

Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
71
Reaction score
1
I'm considering a medical school that goes by a strictly P/F system, no hidden rankings, etc. I don't consider myself to be a gunner, but do think I'll be gearing towards a more competitive residency..hence my post in this forum.

I'm curious if a med school that has such a grading system, tending not to distinguish outstanding student from those that are marginally passing, will limit my competitiveness to enter a difficult specialty? I mean, will solid board scores, research experience, and recs carry me through fine or will I have to work that much harder, or do that much better in those areas in order to compete with someone who excelled at a school with a more stratified grading system? thanks for your help.

Members don't see this ad.
 
dulop said:
I'm considering a medical school that goes by a strictly P/F system, no hidden rankings, etc. I don't consider myself to be a gunner, but do think I'll be gearing towards a more competitive residency..hence my post in this forum.

I'm curious if a med school that has such a grading system, tending not to distinguish outstanding student from those that are marginally passing, will limit my competitiveness to enter a difficult specialty? I mean, will solid board scores, research experience, and recs carry me through fine or will I have to work that much harder, or do that much better in those areas in order to compete with someone who excelled at a school with a more stratified grading system? thanks for your help.

No way, it will likely be easier. Does the school have AOA? That might be more important. That way you can focus on when things count instead of having to be perfect. Boards, AOA, LORs, become very important in competitive specialties, mainly to get interviews. No one ever asked my about my boards or the like (also P/F), except to be complimentary. Once you get the interview they figure everyone walks on water, so its not a big deal, well, maybe it is but thats how it seemed.

How about folks with other systems?
 
Is the school really strictly P/F in all subjects for all four years? Some schools change their grading between second and third years.

I went to a H/P/F school with no AOA chapter and no published class ranks.

The problem with H/P/F and P/F (as opposed to the full spectrum of honors, high pass, pass, fail) is that most people just get "pass" and it DOES make it difficult for residency selection committees to stratify you against other applicants whose transcripts have the full spectrum of grades. So when the residency selection committees stratify you, you get a transcript full of PASSES alongside other students who have a smattering of HIGH PASS and HONORS grades. You look WORSE and there's a possibility you might get ranked down at the BOTTOM in terms of grades.

There are plenty of people who have gone to schools with full-spectrum grades and AOA, did not honor or high-pass everything, and did not make AOA. When I was on the interview trail, I met people like that interviewing at top residency programs. It seems to me that a top student at a P/F school and a bottomdwelling student at a school with a real grading scale can end up in the same place, so if I were to do it over again I would suck it up and go to a school with real grades.

Bottom line: Whatever the grading scale, just look at the match list and see if it looks good.
 
Plastikos said:
No way, it will likely be easier. Does the school have AOA? That might be more important. That way you can focus on when things count instead of having to be perfect. Boards, AOA, LORs, become very important in competitive specialties, mainly to get interviews. No one ever asked my about my boards or the like (also P/F), except to be complimentary. Once you get the interview they figure everyone walks on water, so its not a big deal, well, maybe it is but thats how it seemed.

How about folks with other systems?

the school i'm referring to is Case Western, i'm not sure about AOA
 
dulop said:
the school i'm referring to is Case Western, i'm not sure about AOA

At my school the first two years were pass fail. I'm not aware of any school that has Year 3/4 also pass fail. If you find it stay away, many residency programs do use your IM grade or Surgery grade to screen you for an interview. But like I said I don't think any schools do P/F 3/4th year.

Another thing to be aware of: at my school, they kept telling us all of 1-2 years that we were pass/fail, not to be competitive with each other, etc etc. Then out of nowhere, they told us during 3rd year, "Oh we're going to use your 1/2 test averages to calculate AOA." Argh! Something to think about. But yeah, I think it does make for a better learning environment to be P/F early. You learn concepts, not what was on old tests. You prepare yourself for the boards from the begininning and focus on your strenghts/weaknesses.

My school didn't rank students. I think this helped me, since everyone in medschool in general is bright.

Remember that Pass/Fail systems also put HEAVY pressure on your USMLE, which is important for competitive specialties. Statistically, the best predictor of your USMLE is actually your MCAT. If you are good at standardized tests, a Pass/Fail place will definatly put you at a relative advantage.
 
toxic-megacolon said:
At my school the first two years were pass fail. I'm not aware of any school that has Year 3/4 also pass fail. If you find it stay away, many residency programs do use your IM grade or Surgery grade to screen you for an interview. But like I said I don't think any schools do P/F 3/4th year.

Actually, Stanford is P/F all 4 years and the match list is generally fantastic. I don't believe any other schools are all P/F.
 
alphacentauri said:
Actually, Stanford is P/F all 4 years and the match list is generally fantastic. I don't believe any other schools are all P/F.

I know Cleveland Clinic is, and for some reason, I though Yale was but I'm not sure...
 
Top