pa or nursing, need some advice...

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fort lincoln

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Iam currently taking pre-reqs for hopeful entry into a nursing program(3.0 a&p1and2,micro plus gen ed) but Iam having a strong urge to follow the medical model of PA school. Iam eyeing a program that offers a bachelors degree in my area of residence. But my dilemma is that the pre-reqs require an extra semester of chemistry and organic plus (nursing reqires one semester of chemistry)an extra semester of algebra(nursing reqires one semester) and Iam terrible in math! In order to be successful in chemistry you need to be strong in algebra.
Realistically should I attempt these courses and risk possible failure(time and money) and deflating my GPA or just go the nursing route which is a bit less math intensive and have the option of going NP. I already have an associates in another science field, so either way ,its' another two years for either pathway. Any thoughts? Oh by the way Iam 33, so time is ticking.
 
Well dont get discouraged when it comes to Chemistry and everything else. It requires very basic math (for Gen Chem). If you can add and subtract, multiply and divide your good. The real question is what do you want to do? P.A. or Nursing? They are 2 different fields. Remember that nursing is geared towards more for care as a P.A. is more towards practicing actual medicine, basically a jr doc imho. They both make great salaries so you'd need to decide which field is right for you.
 
I truly believe that PA school is for me, if I can get past this math and chemistry. I truly think that Iwill regret going into nursing down the road(no knock to nursing). That would definitly not be a fun experience to live with. Another pit fall is the cost ,PA school is way more expensive than nursing school and you cannot work. But if I can pull the grades off in my pre-reqs for PA school, I will sacrifice everything I have to pay for the education because I firmly believe it is worth it.
 
PTinthemaking said:
Well dont get discouraged when it comes to Chemistry and everything else. It requires very basic math (for Gen Chem). If you can add and subtract, multiply and divide your good. The real question is what do you want to do? P.A. or Nursing? They are 2 different fields. Remember that nursing is geared towards more for care as a P.A. is more towards practicing actual medicine, basically a jr doc imho. They both make great salaries so you'd need to decide which field is right for you.
Click to expand...

I don't think so!
There is definitely some algebra usage! And the quadratic formula for some problems! I think if you have college algebra you should be good, but for me before I took it I struggled in gen chem because of the math. I pulled off a B in both semesters but it was the problems I had trouble with not the concepts.
 
I hate chemistry. I don't just struggle, I flat out hate it. Math is more for me, but knowing how to do simple math didn't help me any in Chem. I am currently in my first semester of Organic. I wouldn't let it discourage you at all. I don't think that my poor chem abilities will hinder my ability to practice good medicine as a PA
 
Indeed. I'm a bad chemistry student, but a good physiology student. I really think this is more important, and a recuiter from USC told me they look at weigh anat & physiolgy heavily. chem isnt just math, in my opinion. It's about word problems, which i'm not very good at. I can do pure math(got through calc 2), but word problems are another story. If you want to help people, don't let chem get in your way. 🙂
 
Hey check out the pre reqs for more schools, they don't all require the same things. You might find several schools that have less emphasis on chem and math. As long as you are willing to move to the school I'm sure you will find what you need. I am not sure that a math requirement was in my pre reqs I do know that algebra was the highest math I had and my chem was the same one the Calif schools want for the RN programs.
 
Main difference between being an RN and a PA:

PA's get to use the vast knoweldge they learn in school once they are done, and get to be relatively free thinkers.

RN's get to use very little of what they learn in school and instead usually become non-thinkers, where physicians call all the shots.

Lifelong earning potential for a PA is probably 75% higher as well.
 
RN's get to use very little of what they learn in school and instead usually become non-thinkers, where physicians call all the shots????!!!!!!

lets restate that.....
PA's get to use very little of what they learn in school and instead usually become non-thinkers, where physicians call all the shots. Hince called Physician Assistant! :scared:

Lifelong earning potential for a PA is probably 75% higher as well.....this is a joke. :wow:

look OP, here is the true unbiased figures....
Nurse Practitioner - Specialty Care 25th%ile Median 75th%ile
the United States $66,272 $72,311 $79,601

Physician Assistant 25th%ile Median 75th%ile
the United States $68,644 $72,353 $78,520

these true numbers can be found here: http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/...n_psr&p=&s=salary&geocode=&jobcode=HC07000181




__________________
 
FNP, spoken like your screenname states...a true rookie. First of all, I was comparing RN versus PA. Don't be fooled by the title Physician Assistant and try to use it as a shield to hide behind in a desperate attempt to compare NP's and PA's. Before I went to medical school, I practiced as a PA and I can tell you that PA's are universally known to be more competent due to their much more extensive background in MEDICINE. NP's still practice NURSING. There is a huge difference. I was clearing 6 figs while watching NP's in my same area struggle to make half that. It was because my training was superior, and it simply showed. NP's are a valuable asset to the healthcare team but don't fool yourself into believing they are somehow superior to a PA. Each has their strengths and weaknesses but you are flat out wrong about the salaries. Please wait until you are actually in the profession before you know so much about it!!
 
PACtoDOC said:
FNP, spoken like your screenname states...a true rookie. First of all, I was comparing RN versus PA. Don't be fooled by the title Physician Assistant and try to use it as a shield to hide behind in a desperate attempt to compare NP's and PA's. Before I went to medical school, I practiced as a PA and I can tell you that PA's are universally known to be more competent due to their much more extensive background in MEDICINE. NP's still practice NURSING. There is a huge difference. I was clearing 6 figs while watching NP's in my same area struggle to make half that. It was because my training was superior, and it simply showed. NP's are a valuable asset to the healthcare team but don't fool yourself into believing they are somehow superior to a PA. Each has their strengths and weaknesses but you are flat out wrong about the salaries. Please wait until you are actually in the profession before you know so much about it!!
Click to expand...

She's not wrong about the salary averages. They are published from surveys. But, the range is huge. There are NPs making 40K/yr and some making 250K/yr. I think there are many bad PA/NPs because it's easier to get into those schools. NP school takes a heartbeat, basically. But it still takes 7 years minimum to be a NP. The training sucks. But, good ones whether they are NP or PA will recognize the sh*tty training and teach themselves what needs to be known in their field.

In my state most docs prefer NPs because NPs can practice without the doc where PAs cannot. I've had several interviews for NP positions and I've never been asked how good the training was. None of them really give a f*ck. I wouldn't either. They basically interview to check out the learning curve of the potential partner.
 
Just to clirify: travel nurses can make over $100,000/yr (with only a R.N. license) in California. Especially when you consider the housing subsidy. It also requires a little overtime, thats where the big bucks are!

I havent heard anyone address the salary vs. hourly wage issue either. Do PAs really make more when you consider actual hours worked (on salary)? Nurses clock in and out. If they stay late they get time and a half or even double time. Is there a way PAs are similarily compensated for OT?
 
Lets be serious guys. Travel nurses are the exception on salary and everyone knows it. I mean if we are going to talk about exceptions, how about the PA's who run an entire practice that THEY OWN and clear 300K? I know several of them, and they are the EXCEPTION. The rule, however, is that PA's make more hourly, or by salary, than an RN. Most PA's I know make 45-70 bucks an hour doing PRN work. Most salaried PA's I know are all clearing 75K minimum. And if you ask me, PA's have better working hours usually than most shift nurses. PA's usually have the flexibility to schedule their patients when it is convenient, and they get time off whenever they really need it. PA's are seen by most practices as partners or close to it.

And Lloyd, I like you and you and I have been through this before. Lets not rehash this mess. You and I both know that NP training is way sub-par to the medical model. You may be sharp and have taught yourself the things you lacked in your education, but what is that saying about your profession? And any physician that hires a midlevel on the sole distinction that they have to countersign fewer charts is a COMPLETE IDIOT. You guys always hide behind that darn "independent" practice bit and pretend that makes you better providers. That just makes you guys cheap labor and targets for lazy physicians to hire to make a buck. A real educated doctor knows that hiring a PA means getting someone that has a greater liklihood of catching a zebra for them and not getting them sued. As a soon-to-be physician, I can promise you that the first midlevel I hire will be one that can pass my oral examination and interview. And frankly I don't think an NP of any variety could do that. Truthfully I am only going to be looking for the best, and when you compare the best of both fields head to head, I see the PA's winning hands down. Maybe the mediocre of each group are comparable, but I don't want someone mediocre. I want an EMED or a Bandit, or a Mr.Bob, and you ain't gonna find many NP's like that.
 
ok ok ....lets go off the hear say of some biast wanna be doc, that wants to bring in his/her expertise on national salary average. but again this is aimed toward the OP...if you are truly looking into the true definition to both NP and PA professions and salary...i would shadow an NP and PA in your area. dont be afraid to ask them questions . NP is the path that i chose...because of my research. Coming to a PA forum is of course going to give you a one-sided response. on the other hand going to an NP forum will give you also a one-sided response. again if you are truly trying to decide, do some in-depth research(excluding forums).

now in response to mr/mrs pacdoc....your insecurity leaks through your threads sir/mamm. You seem to have the heart beat of the healthcare system. you have it all figured out. the high an mighty PA man/woman. you know the exact average income of the entire mid-level. you control the educational system...hence knowing the ignorance of NP's compared to PA's and when you become an MD...you are going to be sure an not hire any mid-level or should i say low-level NP's. your little clinic is going to be the bar to by which all other healthcare facilites must adjust their staff.... 😉 yeah ok.....and of course there will be a thread to follow and every piece of information by PAC2DOC is fact..please do not look into or research for yourself any thing that PAC2DOC writes....why, you ask..because it is fact. 😴

before i finish let me give those that are sincerely looking for the true salary average the site again....or i can just refer you to the fact finder (PAC2DOC)

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/...n_psr&p=&s=salary&geocode=&jobcode=HC07000181
 
while I will not contest the salary survey above, I have seen far more pa's making > 125k/yr than np's, and I know a fair # of people in both professions.. this is likeky due to the fact that more pa's work in specialties while more np's work in primary care. fair enough. as an aside, one of the facilities that I work in uses both pa's and np's. the pa's make $4/hr more and are allowed to work both solo night shifts and work in the main er while the np's are restricted to the fast track area and supervised day shifts only..this is based on the medical directors preference. as a prior military guy he is much more familiar with pa's and only hires an np if there are no qualified pa candidates.
note: pac2doc is not a doc wannabe, he is a 3rd yr medstudent in clinical rotations and a former pa, paramedic, and navy corpsman, so he knows a thing or 2 about medicine at this point.
 
I will tell you one thing...this PA/NP thing is like a jihad

I think its almost as fierce as the MD/DO subject.

My 2 cents...who cares. If thats what you want to do and you love doing it, then do what you want bec no one else pays YOUR bills except YOU!
 
I hate to burst your bubble, the whole MD/DO debate does not even exist among real board certified physicians. I can tell you that as a DO student that I am constantly called, written, emailed...recruited by big MD residency programs. You won't find any PA residency programs recruiting NP's. That is because they are not equals as DO's and MD's are. The MD/DO debate is among premeds only usually, while the PA NP debate lingers well into professional career years. In all honesty, you have a profession of meagerly educated NP's who because they managed to convince a lobbyist and legislature to allow them to practice "autonomous nursing", now they are able to say they are independent. The phrase "practicing medicine" is not in the statutes that allow nurses this independence role, and if you asked most physicians what they think of "autonomous nursing", they will roll their eyes in disgust. I guarantee that if nurses ever really try to push it to the next level and grant a Dr.NP degree, or seek further practice rights, that the jihad will be between them and the AMA. The NP world pulled a fast one the first time to gain this "independent practice "BS but if you can show me more than a handful of NP's practicing independently I will kindly shut TFU!!

Bottom line....NP's are a liability and are dangerous if they do not practice with a supervising physician. And that salary profile link argues exactly what I said anyway. NP's are not at the 25%ile on salary until they reach 66K. Nationwide the average STARTING PA SALARY is now at that level. So go ahead, call PA's assistants, but from this future physician's point of view, and NP is merely a nurse with a white coat!!
 
I would ignore all things PACtoDOC says, for several reasons: he is rude; his IQ is 70; he lies: my friend is the #1 MD student in our class by test scores, and not even he is "recruited by top MD residencies" during his second/third yr; he is a hypocrit: he is talking down on RNs about how they're at the lower end of medical training when he is not even at a top MD medical school but at some no name DO school, so he is actually the one at the lower end of physician training. Everyone, I advise you help the OP by giving sound advice rather than by arguing with PACtoDOC, as he is just dragging everyone into a rampage that has nothing constructive to do with the original topic.
 
i will do just that cbc, im sorry PAC2DOC your ignorance has placed you in the national ignore forum........o and before you are placed in the NIF(national ignore forum) ....i know three good friends of mine(lowly NP's)that own their own practice right here in Texas, so shut T freak U! PACtoDOC you have now been officially placed in the NIF!

now that we've got that out of the way...(wiping hands on pants) OP it comes down to what you decide...there are pro's and con's to both professions. my wife has a NNP(neo-natal) that she works with that she is really good friends with. my wife says that her NNP friend is a wonderful fill in when other doc's are not avaliable. on the other hand i just went to an express med here an a PA saw me. wonderful person...she seemed like she knew her stuff....again do some personel research and im sure the decision you make will be a good one. either profession you chose will reap you like long job security and of course income security.

good luck
 
Regarding:

> look OP, here is the true unbiased figures....
> Nurse Practitioner - Specialty Care 25th%ile Median 75th%ile
> the United States $66,272 $72,311 $79,601
>
> Physician Assistant 25th%ile Median 75th%ile
> the United States $68,644 $72,353 $78,520

Someone here is comparing SPECIALTY CARE Nurse Practitioners with PA's in general, and you find that they make about the same.

It would be more helpful to compare regular Nurse Practioners to regular PA's, or specialty care NP's to specialty care PA's ... right?

Let's compare apples with apples!
 
I would agree tim. if you looked at em pa's vs specialty np's it would look more like this:

EM pa:
70k/80k/90K
IF YOU INCLUDE THE 90% FOR EM PA'S THE FIGURE IS >100K WITH A DECENT# OF FOLKS MAKING 125K+. my entire em pa group makes>100k/yr, even the most jr members. the highest paid guy in our group made>200k last yr

SPECIALTY np:
66K/72K/79K
 
Any of my colleagues here know I mean well, but when I am put in a position of having to explain away the statements of some idiot candy stripers, I tend to use condescention and bullet statements. How about you ruffled-wrist white coaters heading back to the Head Nurse lounge where you can sell nursing to whoever wants to hear about it. Sell nursing to your parents and to your metrosexual buddies, but we're all stocked up here in the PA forum.

My medical school is a top 20 school, and has a superb reputation. Yes, even DO schools get in the top 20 these days, but I still haven't seen any NP programs in the top 20 medical schools. Oh yes, because they teach nursing, not medicine. And one more thing...DO's write the same orders that Head Nurses follow, the same as an MD.

So OP, I apologize for having to answer your question progressively more condescending, but when some rookies come in here and distort facts and speak like they just stepped out of the medical Old Testament, they are going to experience a lil spanking. Hec, a one day old infant has more experience crapping yellow than these candy stripers have doing disimpactions. There should be a specific forum created for rookie know-it alls so they can have a cage match to fight it out for the title of smartest inexperienced idiot.
 
emedpa said:
I would agree tim. if you looked at em pa's vs specialty np's it would look more like this:

EM pa:
70k/80k/90K
IF YOU INCLUDE THE 90% FOR EM PA'S THE FIGURE IS >100K WITH A DECENT# OF FOLKS MAKING 125K+. my entire em pa group makes>100k/yr, even the most jr members. the highest paid guy in our group made>200k last yr

SPECIALTY np:
66K/72K/79K
Click to expand...

DING DING DING....ROUND TWO!!!
 
Oh, and let us not forget that my very original reply to this thread was answering the actual issue of RN versus PA. When I answered it, you will notice that there was not any mention of PA vs. NP. The question was not asked by the OP about NP vs. PA. Some rookies came in here and made the thread about that, because they love a fight. Well now they got one!! 🙂
 
UNTHSC was number 20 in 2002, # 19 in 2003, and #26 in 2004. Here is the most recent link. That "top 50" generalization on their website is so they don't have to change it year to year, and because US News calls it the "top 50 list". The website merely mentions that UNTHSC is on that list. They know its pretty likely they'll be in the top 50 for years to come, but that does not represent the real number. Check out where Michigan State is.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/med/brief/mdprank_brief.php
 
Yes, updating a number on a website is rather arduous work. That would account for bragging rights in the top 50, rather than the top 20, or top 30.
I see now. I am sooo glad you told all of us. :laugh:

Especially those of us who know nothing about computers and how hard it is to change one little number on a web page... 😕
 
Dr. M, Bottom line is your stats were flat out wrong. Not bad for your first POST EVER!! You're just pissed that your little "nurse prop-up" party didn't go so well. Come here with facts that are correct or you are simply going to eat a stat sandwich every time. Good luck preparing your SECOND ever post. Hopefully it won't resemble the inaccuracy of your first. 👍
 
OP, forget all the NP PA stuff, if you want to make money: get an AA degree in nursing, an RN license (two years or even less). From a community college it shouldn't cost more than a couple grand. Get a travel gig in L.A. or S.F. and rake in the dough. It is very simple.
 
The fight definitely started with your first post on this thread, saying RNs don't use their brains but PAs do.

PACtoDOC said:
Main difference between being an RN and a PA:

PA's get to use the vast knoweldge they learn in school once they are done, and get to be relatively free thinkers.

RN's get to use very little of what they learn in school and instead usually become non-thinkers, where physicians call all the shots.

Lifelong earning potential for a PA is probably 75% higher as well.
Click to expand...
 
Top 20, from whose rankings? Yours? The most popular, USNews research rankings, does not have any DO schools in the top 50. Why are you using the primary care rankings because no one uses that and many students do not go into primary care. Harvard and Johns Hopkins are ranked #42 and #46 on that list, below your TCOM, and that's a ridiculously misleading look at rankings of medical schools. Great way of misleading people like you always do.

Also, no PA school is in the top 20 med school either, so according to your logic PA schools must not be teaching any medicine either.

Rookies are always better than a low IQ.

Regardless of what you think, behind the back of every DO, patients and MDs will ALWAYS look at DOs as inferior. It's a joke to most MD doctor or student that DOs consider themselves medical students. A police detective and a FBI write the same order that gets followed and receive the same salary, but obviously everyone believes the FBI is more superior (watch Rush Hour 1).

PACtoDOC said:
Any of my colleagues here know I mean well, but when I am put in a position of having to explain away the statements of some idiot candy stripers, I tend to use condescention and bullet statements. How about you ruffled-wrist white coaters heading back to the Head Nurse lounge where you can sell nursing to whoever wants to hear about it. Sell nursing to your parents and to your metrosexual buddies, but we're all stocked up here in the PA forum.

My medical school is a top 20 school, and has a superb reputation. Yes, even DO schools get in the top 20 these days, but I still haven't seen any NP programs in the top 20 medical schools. Oh yes, because they teach nursing, not medicine. And one more thing...DO's write the same orders that Head Nurses follow, the same as an MD.

So OP, I apologize for having to answer your question progressively more condescending, but when some rookies come in here and distort facts and speak like they just stepped out of the medical Old Testament, they are going to experience a lil spanking. Hec, a one day old infant has more experience crapping yellow than these candy stripers have doing disimpactions. There should be a specific forum created for rookie know-it alls so they can have a cage match to fight it out for the title of smartest inexperienced idiot.
Click to expand...
 
Listen now, many an educated woman has entered nursing only to find out that she is very unhappy after she completes years of training. It is true, like it or not, that RN's are simply overtrained to do what it is that they do. They get decent path training but they NEVER get to be the one with the final say, the one to make a true decision. They are essentially the hands of the physician who does not have time to carry out the order she/he has written. I had many an RN in my PA school and medical school class that were there because they were mislead that being an RN would give them a great deal of ability to change lives. RN's may change lives, but they are only doing it at the physician's request. I happen to like RN's very much, but I wasn't going to candy coat it for the OP when what I said was right on target. If you want to be a free thinker in the medical world, you have to be given a title that goes along with free thinking, like being a physician. By extension, PA's also free think and usually in a similar fashion as their supervising physician. RN's are not given the authority to be free thinkers. I was just trying to make the OP understand this distinction, and personally I could care less what you think CBC. You need to stay your as% at the children's table until Daddy tell you you can be excused!! And in case you got me confused, I am not P-Diddy, so stop following me everywhere I post like you are some member of my freaking posse or something!
 
PACtoDOC said:
Dr. M, Bottom line is your stats were flat out wrong. Not bad for your first POST EVER!! You're just pissed that your little "nurse prop-up" party didn't go so well. Come here with facts that are correct or you are simply going to eat a stat sandwich every time. Good luck preparing your SECOND ever post. Hopefully it won't resemble the inaccuracy of your first. 👍
Click to expand...

Nothing inaccurate. And I quoted my site. Anyone can check where I got my information; the link is available in my post.

Just because I don't post, doesn't mean I don't read.

I believe all medical professionals should get the respect they deserve. 😍

And those that don't deserve it shouldn't get it. 😡
 
PACtoDOC said:
Lets be serious guys. Travel nurses are the exception on salary and everyone knows it. I mean if we are going to talk about exceptions, how about the PA's who run an entire practice that THEY OWN and clear 300K? I know several of them, and they are the EXCEPTION. The rule, however, is that PA's make more hourly, or by salary, than an RN. Most PA's I know make 45-70 bucks an hour doing PRN work. Most salaried PA's I know are all clearing 75K minimum. And if you ask me, PA's have better working hours usually than most shift nurses. PA's usually have the flexibility to schedule their patients when it is convenient, and they get time off whenever they really need it. PA's are seen by most practices as partners or close to it.

And Lloyd, I like you and you and I have been through this before. Lets not rehash this mess. You and I both know that NP training is way sub-par to the medical model. You may be sharp and have taught yourself the things you lacked in your education, but what is that saying about your profession? And any physician that hires a midlevel on the sole distinction that they have to countersign fewer charts is a COMPLETE IDIOT. You guys always hide behind that darn "independent" practice bit and pretend that makes you better providers. That just makes you guys cheap labor and targets for lazy physicians to hire to make a buck. A real educated doctor knows that hiring a PA means getting someone that has a greater liklihood of catching a zebra for them and not getting them sued. As a soon-to-be physician, I can promise you that the first midlevel I hire will be one that can pass my oral examination and interview. And frankly I don't think an NP of any variety could do that. Truthfully I am only going to be looking for the best, and when you compare the best of both fields head to head, I see the PA's winning hands down. Maybe the mediocre of each group are comparable, but I don't want someone mediocre. I want an EMED or a Bandit, or a Mr.Bob, and you ain't gonna find many NP's like that.
Click to expand...

I agree that NP training sucks ass... I don't think I've tried to hide that. What are you talking about "hiding behind"? It's just a fact, jack. And "what's that saying about my profession?" I'm not advocating "my" profession. There is too much diversity in the profession to even group ourselves together, as there are people in my class who could belong to MENSA (about 3) as well as people that would spend an hour trying to push a square block through a round hole (the rest of the class). And I've yet to meet a doc that hires anyone no matter what they're role is going to be on a "sole distinction". And it has nothing to do with the number of charts countersigned. In Missouri, the PAs can't practice without the doc there, which defeats the purpose that most docs want help in the first place (more time to f*ck around with their boats and airplanes while the office is still generating revenue).

Generally speaking, I must admit PAs, "head to head" will out do NPs in the training field. Trust me; I would've gladly given up all the absolute f*cking hell I've been through practicing nursing when I've always wanted to practice medicine by going to PA school. I just couldn't do it and be as valuable in my state.

But, as you have said, there are exceptions to every generalization. Frankly, I'll be glad to go head to head with anyone, NP or PA (with comparable experience, of course). I'm afraid if you actually start an "oral examination" while interviewing you're gonna get looked at like you're from Mars and you'll see the door swinging before you have a chance to explain yourself. I personally like getting quizzed but almost all my fellow students get offended 😳/.
 
PACtoDOC said:
Listen now, RN's are simply overtrained
Click to expand...

Hang on a sec... need a Q-tip........ okay. Did I hear you right? So now RN training is great??? This thread is gonna drive me to drinkin'.
 
I never thought my original thread would generate so much activity. But I want to thank everyone for their indirect/direct advice it was extremly appreciated and helpful. My next endeavor is to get past these last pre-reqs(math/chem) and find some direct patient contact before the application process begins.
 
Just one more question if I may, Since most PA programs are full time , besides loans, how did some of you make ends meet while in school?
 
fort lincoln said:
Just one more question if I may, Since most PA programs are full time , besides loans, how did some of you make ends meet while in school?
Click to expand...

I work full time and go to school full time, but wouldn't recommend that unless you have easy access to anti-psychotics.
 
CBC,

You've got some enormous ball i must ad. by the way, great analogy with the FBi and cop thing. did you come up with that one by yourself? you really impress me with your command of the english language. tell me, how long did mommy and daddy have you enrolled at the sylvan learning center before you could come up with such impressive rhetoric? to be honest, this do/md thing has been hashed out before, no need to venture down that rout again. pactodoc and i attend the same school, and although i don't agree with every thing he wrights in this forum, i'll be dammed if i'm going to ignore the pejorative comments you have made about do's and their education. listen prepuce, i'm not going to bash you're institution of higher learning and i suggest if you still value your foreskin you do the same.
 
Fortlincoln,

Loans, scholarships, & grants are given based on need & academic standing at most PA schools. Check with the financial aid dept. of the schools you are interested in to verify. During my first year of PA school they offered me plenty of money, so it has been fine. Of course, you will need to budget appropriately etc. I will see how the financial aid works out for me during my clinical year, which starts in about a week! 🙂 You will be fine just do your best on your prereqs and crank out an impressive application & interview(s).

BTW, have you visited the Physician associate forum? If not, you should. The vibe is so positive, and the silliness that goes on over here is basically non-existent there.

Best of luck!
Monika, PAS-II
 
Good call Irish. CBC seems to have taken a "left shift" on the attacking of a group of DO's. I think CBC is a pre-puce, not a prepuce. See, a prepuce is a full fledged pre-puce, which is giving CBC way too much credit. See, pre-puce is a term used for those still working hard at learning how to be a real prepuce. You really need to get your terminology together Irish lest you start calling pre-meatuses a full fledged hypospadias before they are deserving of the title. My Lord, you are months away from doctorhood Irish...must I teach you everything? But wait, pre-puce says you are not going to be a full fledged doctor, so can you really sleep tonight knowing that a pre-puce is thinking you poorly of you? Oh, wait a minute, I think I got my own self confused with the terminology issue. CBC is not a pre-puce, but a pre-PUSS. That is someone who is still taking the pre-requisite courses to become a real PUSS. CBC is still learning how to be make lowly attacks, beat around the bush, and frankly make no argument that is worthy of note.

Hey CBC, if you didn't know this already, I shoould point out a couple of things. Medical schools are ranked in 2 areas from USNews. 1 is research, and 1 is primary care. Those big name schools are lower than my school in primary care because they are very high on the rankings for research. But I guess I can't explain such a difficult concept to a pre-puce with 2 neurons held is close juxtaposition by a spirochete :laugh:
 
once again i'm rolling with amusement :laugh:
 
Hey CBC,

I took the liberty of forwarding your DO bashing post over to the DO board. Since they make up nearly half of all people on this forum, and since the owner of this forum is a DO, I thought it would just help you to feel more welcome. 😀
 
Check out various PA programs. Some do not require the extra algebra or the organic chemistry, etc. Each program's requirements are different.

And in the end, become a nurse if nursing is really what you want. (Spend a few days shadowing nurses and see what their life, attitude and work is like.) And become a PA if medicine is really what you want. (Spend a few days shadowing PA's and see what their life, attitude and work is like.) The two careers are quite different.
 
Ooooh I am really scared now. What ever in the world am I going to do? I guess the owner of this forum will ban me for stating an opinion that does not violate the sdn rules, and all the DOs will track me down and kill me. Look IQ70, if you can read, you'll notice that I said 1) nobody cares about the primary care rankings because most med students dont want to go into primary care 2) to back your statements by using a ranking where a medical student attending harvard med is considered lower tier, you must be delusional.

iirish, think what you want. you are lying to yourself if you dont think patients and MDs think DOs are more inferior. none of my laymen friends even know what a DO is, but for some reason they know MD. that is not an opinion, but a fact. i didnt bring up this point for debate but to bash pactodoc like he bashes RNs. even if my english is poor, which it is not, keep in mind that english is not the first language of most american citizens. some geniuses, like albert einstein, don't need to speak perfect english to be brilliant. i guess texans are not used to having respect for cultural diversity.

PACtoDOC said:
Hey CBC,

I took the liberty of forwarding your DO bashing post over to the DO board. Since they make up nearly half of all people on this forum, and since the owner of this forum is a DO, I thought it would just help you to feel more welcome. 😀
Click to expand...
 
cbc said:
1) nobody cares about the primary care rankings because most med students dont want to go into primary care 2) to back your statements by using a ranking where a medical student attending harvard med is considered lower tier, you must be delusional.

iirish, think what you want. you are lying to yourself if you dont think patients and MDs think DOs are more inferior. none of my laymen friends even know what a DO is, but for some reason they know MD. that is not an opinion, but a fact.
Click to expand...
First I would say many medical students go into primary care. Secondly, I do not think patients think DOs are inferior than MDs. Very few people know what a DO is and all they will see is them being a doctor just like an MD. It would only be misinformed fools like yourself who tell others that DOs are inferior to MDs that would propagate this myth.

However, I do think that some MDs believe they are superior to MDs, much like a surgeon may think he is superior to an FP, much like a physician thinks he's superior to a PA, much like a PA thinks he is superior to an RN, much like an RN thinks he's superior to a LVN. In other words, there will always be someone who thinks they are better then someone else, so who cares. 👍
 
Luck said:
First I would say many medical students go into primary care.
Click to expand...

47% of all family practice residencies went unfilled last year.
 
English is not the first language of most American Citizens? What country are you living in?
 
CBC who are you? Are you a premed?
Regardless...my residency thought enough of this lowly DO (me) to name me chief resident. I guess when they were done making fun of me and stuffing me in my locker, they came around to actually respecting me....hmmmm.

This debate has degenerated into a verbal war and battle of personal agendas. I suggest everyone avoid this thread and avoid this kind of disgusting display of stupidity.
 
Lloyd, why don't you go back to your playground with the rest of your Fragile X buddies!! You are constantly misrepresenting facts that are simply a distortion of truth. Lets ask ourselves 2 questions, that you obviously don't know the answer to.

1) Why would FP have more unfilled seats in residencies than any other?
Because they have the most SEATS of any other. There are literally thousands of FP slots, while there are only 262 Derm slots nationwide.

2) Why would FP slots not be filled on match day but somehow end up nearly full? Because many people that go into FP don't even bother with the match and scramble to get the slot they want. It saves a lot of money and allows them the flexibility of trying to get a more competitive residency first.

Lloyd, if you weren't so busy misquoting distorted facts, in NURSING school you should have learned that primary care includes psychiatry, OB/GYN, Peds, IM, and FP. When a school makes it into the top 50 in primary care it obviously represents its tradition of producing top-knotch primary care doctors. The USNews rankings is made up from surveys sent to Deans of all medical schools. In Texas there is only one DO school, but evidently even the Deans of the other 8 MD schools seem to feel that our program is stellar.

Anyone can distort fact. I could easily say that the majority of male nurses are gay, because it is probably true that there are more gay male nurses proportion wise than the number of gay males in the population. But then that would stereotype all male nurses when it simply is not justified. See where I am going with this? If you would like another STAT sandwich just let me know. I am sure we can bring it down to your comprehension level if need be.
 
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