pa or nursing, need some advice...

[cbc]

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Perhaps your first sentence is correct about DOs, but if so many MD students go into PC, why do many MD medical schools (especially state schools) attempt to encourage students to do PC? There's a need for PC and rural doctors because not enough students are going into these fields, and state schools feel obligated to encourage students to become PCs to serve their state citizens. One must be pretty "misinformed" not to know these facts. Most laymen view optometrists, chiropractors, DOs all as "doctors," but most will consider MD as the real doctors.

This really makes no sense. There's always an optometrists who says, "I have the stats to be an MD but I chose to be an optometrist because that's what I want to be." That's great. Before one chooses optometry, they SHOULD be aware that the public will stereotype them as inferior doctors, and if they still love optometry enough to disregard that view, then do optometry. If one can't live with the fact that others will view you as having an inferior job, then don't pursue it. You can be the smartest guy in the world and love to be a janitor (like Good Will Hunting), but if you choose to be a janitor, don't be mad because everyone else think your job is inferior compared to Donald Trump's. If that bothers you enough, go pursue Donald Trump's job, but don't remain a janitor and continue to groan about it all day. If you love to be a janitor enough such that the stereotype doesn't bother you, then be proud of what you do and quit trying so hard to change the public view about janitors.

DOsDad, I reside in California. Not to speak of the general hispanic and asian population, but even a lot of my classmates are immigrants or learned English second, and one of the top 3 students in my class has an accent.

DocWagner, I'm a medical student. If you are trying to brag, you are a chief resident of Wright State. I would've turned down that job. When you're a chief resident of UCSF, then we'll talk.

First I would say many medical students go into primary care. Secondly, I do not think patients think DOs are inferior than MDs. Very few people know what a DO is and all they will see is them being a doctor just like an MD. It would only be misinformed fools like yourself who tell others that DOs are inferior to MDs that would propagate this myth.

However, I do think that some MDs believe they are superior to MDs, much like a surgeon may think he is superior to an FP, much like a physician thinks he's superior to a PA, much like a PA thinks he is superior to an RN, much like an RN thinks he's superior to a LVN. In other words, there will always be someone who thinks they are better then someone else, so who cares. 👍

 

[Luck]

One must be pretty "misinformed" not to know these facts. Most laymen view optometrists, chiropractors, DOs all as "doctors," but most will consider MD as the real doctors.

This really makes no sense. There's always an optometrists who says, "I have the stats to be an MD but I chose to be an optometrist because that's what I want to be." That's great. Before one chooses optometry, they SHOULD be aware that the public will stereotype them as inferior doctors, and if they still love optometry enough to disregard that view, then do optometry. If one can't live with the fact that others will view you as having an inferior job, then don't pursue it.

DocWagner, I'm a medical student. If you are trying to brag, you are a chief resident of Wright State. I would've turned down that job. When you're a chief resident of UCSF, then we'll talk.

So now you're bashing optometrists calling them inferior. I'm sorry but the public probably respects optometrists, dentists, and physicians the same. You have such an elitist, distorted view. All these illusions of the MD grandeur are all in your head. If you ask the average American which is better, an optometrist, dentist, chiropractor, or physician I think the majority would say they're all about equal because they're all doctors.

Oh and for lloydchristmas, don't mind him. Looking at his posting history, he gave up going to medical school to be a nurse. Maybe that is why he is a bit bitter when it comes to physicians.

 

[cbc]

You are delusional to think that the general public views optometrists on the same level as a neurosurgeons. They are like "rocket scientists." One prescribes glasses and the other dissects out of live skulls. I, at least, am aware of this stereotype. However, since I do not want to do neurosurgery or surgery, I plan to choose another specialty while I am well aware of the respect neurosurgeons receive from the public. I am not going to walk around defending the fact that I am smart enough to have gone to a neurosurgery residency but chose another specialty instead, because it'd be so annoying to me and everyone around me. Because my true interests lies in different specialty, I'll be able to live happily even when the public views my specialty as inferior to neurosurgery. Convince yourself that the public does not view all doctors as being at the same level.

So now you're bashing optometrists calling them inferior. I'm sorry but the public probably respects optometrists, dentists, and physicians the same. You have such an elitist, distorted view. All these illusions of the MD grandeur are all in your head. If you ask the average American which is better, an optometrist, dentist, chiropractor, or physician I think the majority would say they're all about equal because they're all doctors.

Oh and for lloydchristmas, don't mind him. Looking at his posting history, he gave up going to medical school to be a nurse. Maybe that is why he is a bit bitter when it comes to physicians.

 

[DOsDad]

I usually only look with bemused disbelief on some posters elitist & arrogant views. However as the father of a DO and the Father-in-Law of an Optometrist, CDC's comments managed to push my button. One can only hope that maturity will bring about a change in an attitude that seems to thrive on unsupported and clearly wrong statements to belittle the accomplishments of others

 

[deleted6669]

that was a little harsh for our buddy lloyd. he's not a bad guy.cut him a little slack.he was just trying to provide a stat about fp, not bash it as a specialty. he is one of the few np's who admit that pa training is more comprehensive than np. he went the np route because of a set of circumstances that make it easier to practice in his home state as an np than a pa.if i'm remembering correctly he intends to do p.c.( fp or im) when done with school.
why don't we all let this thread die now as it is way off it's original track, ok?

 

[Luck]

I usually only look with bemused disbelief on some posters elitist & arrogant views. However as the father of a DO and the Father-in-Law of an Optometrist, CDC's comments managed to push my button. One can only hope that maturity will bring about a change in an attitude that seems to thrive on unsupported and clearly wrong statements to belittle the accomplishments of others

Well said. 👍

 

[cbc]

DODad, if you feel so proud, confident, and secured about your son's job, you wouldn't feel a need to defend his profession against a few anonymous internet users. Why would anyone, for example, feel the need go on the internet and argue, "Not all lawyers are blood-sucking liars, since my son is a lawyer who likes to help people." Great way of wasting time I guess.

Look, I dont walk around thinking constantly anyone is better than everyone else. I have respect for anyone who has a good heart, regardless of profession. As a matter of fact, that's why I entered this discussion, because I respect RNs and couldn't stand PACtoDOC trampling nurses with his elitist comments. I don't walk around thinking DOs are inferior, but I used that stereotype against PACtoDOC to put him back to his place for rudely stomping on nurses with the utmost disrespect. He is so rude and disrespectful he brought out the worst of me. You can continue to fight against me about this MD vs DO topic but I never really intend or intended to push/elaborate on that idea.

And back to PACtoDOC, as I've mentioned if you are literate, you will know the methodology for USNews primary care rankings definition of primary care is restricted to internal med, peds, and FP (does not include OB/gyn or psych). And I'd like to know on what basis are all these top MD residencies recruiting you, your non-existant USMLE 1 score and clerkship grades (the two most important components on any applicant applying for every residency)? You are the most rude, misleading, and deceiving SDN user I have ever encountered.

I usually only look with bemused disbelief on some posters elitist & arrogant views. However as the father of a DO and the Father-in-Law of an Optometrist, CDC's comments managed to push my button. One can only hope that maturity will bring about a change in an attitude that seems to thrive on unsupported and clearly wrong statements to belittle the accomplishments of others

 

[PA_to_MD]

I'm somewhat of a lurker on this forum and today would like to make one comment. As an observer, personal attacks weaken ones arguement. I see this sort of thing happening on every forum. Although amusing at first, it really is inappropriate.

 

[DocWagner]

Yo CBC, wasn't trying to brag, only stating fact...what a dildo! As for UCSF, it is a great program just like virtually all of the programs across the country and you would be lucky to offered a position in any of them, let alone WSU. I am not sure what your problem is, but your general attitude and demeanor is unbecoming of a medical student. You show no respect and if Karma means anything to you...watch out kiddo.

 

[PACtoDOC]

Its rather simple actually CBC. I sent a letter to all the top programs I was interested in once I finished 2nd year. I sent them a copy of my transcript, my rank, and my CV. They know I am a PA and could show up today and probably teach their PGY3's s thing or two. They also know that I fought for our country against foreign enemies, sort of like what I am doing against you right now. Since then I have received many calls, set up rotations for next year, and have been introduced to many of the residents to help get me more info. I spent a weekend in Cali 1 month ago visiting 2 of these programs that I really like, and they were nothing but kind to me. In the process, they both seemed to care less that I was a DO student. One went out of their way to show me the check stub they had just written for the new "manipulation" table that they had bought for their DO residents. Another program flat out told me that they could care less if I was an FMG, MD, or DO, with the experience I bring to the table. So if it saddens you to know that there are those of us that care enough about our future to start searching for our residency homes 1-2 years in advance, know that you are at a distinct disadvantage sitting back and waiting for your English to improve. You better hope you have some awesome Mediterranean looks to go along with that theory of "All Americans have a language other than English", because if you look anything like your rhetoric, you could easily end up scrambling into some place last minute.

Reread my very original post on this thread. It stated that nurses became non-thinkers after having had to endure their education. What I said was meant to be a wake up call for anyone truly considering an autonomous field versus one where you do what you are told. If your daughter were to ask you what you thought about her becoming a nurse versus a physician, you are ignorant if you think you would not explain to her that RN's are not allowed to use even half of what they learn in school. It can be a very frustrating career. Just ask any RN and see. They have to put up with idiots telling them to do things they know are not right at times. But the system is not set up for an RN to be a free thinker. If that hit home to you then I suppose that is bashing. I don't consider it bashing. I consider what you and I are doing is bashing at this point. Take one look at my Avatar big boy. You think I can't play this game forever? Just remember my friend that you usually never hear the one that takes you out. That's how all of my responses to you are going to be unless you turn the hec around and run while you still have a chance. I am sick of your BS. I am sick of you stalking me like I am some celebrity and you are some sick fan. I am ready to turn this around and start following you to all your threads as well if you really want to play that way. You will soon get sick of looking down the barrel of my rifling comments, punn intended.

Oh, and sorry about the daughter thing, I forgot that Prader Willi's don't usually have kids......I should have been more sensitive to your plite.

 

[r90t]

CBC,
Chief Resident at any community based, 3 resident, FMG/DO/MD BF General Hospital > med student, show some respect.

Some of the attitudes displayed here should not be seen during your rotations if you want to interview/attend your top choice for residency. I doubt people will want to work 3 years with angry, bitter, judgemental soon to be physician. Oh, and even the worst resident can make life hell for the not so bright med student on rotations.

 

[lloydchristmas]

Lloyd, why don't you go back to your playground with the rest of your Fragile X buddies!! You are constantly misrepresenting facts that are simply a distortion of truth. Lets ask ourselves 2 questions, that you obviously don't know the answer to.

1) Why would FP have more unfilled seats in residencies than any other?
Because they have the most SEATS of any other. There are literally thousands of FP slots, while there are only 262 Derm slots nationwide.

2) Why would FP slots not be filled on match day but somehow end up nearly full? Because many people that go into FP don't even bother with the match and scramble to get the slot they want. It saves a lot of money and allows them the flexibility of trying to get a more competitive residency first.

Lloyd, if you weren't so busy misquoting distorted facts, in NURSING school you should have learned that primary care includes psychiatry, OB/GYN, Peds, IM, and FP. When a school makes it into the top 50 in primary care it obviously represents its tradition of producing top-knotch primary care doctors. The USNews rankings is made up from surveys sent to Deans of all medical schools. In Texas there is only one DO school, but evidently even the Deans of the other 8 MD schools seem to feel that our program is stellar.

Anyone can distort fact. I could easily say that the majority of male nurses are gay, because it is probably true that there are more gay male nurses proportion wise than the number of gay males in the population. But then that would stereotype all male nurses when it simply is not justified. See where I am going with this? If you would like another STAT sandwich just let me know. I am sure we can bring it down to your comprehension level if need be.

I'm not going to address your attacks; as others have said, they just make you look stupid so I don't want to look stupid.

As for the "facts", I'll include a web address that shows the trend that I was speaking of. I didn't include hard facts because I thought most people could think their way through the information provided, but I guess there are still anal people out there that need to see it in writing before they'll be able to conceive it.

The family practice residency placements are on the decline because of reimbursements. The docs I work with now work their asses off for about 90K/yr. I'll make almost twice that my first year as a NP. Many new docs have had to get loans (like me) to pay for school, which is often private and expensive. So, it's not feasible to go to primary care when you can't afford to live and pay back the loans. (This information is intended for those who can process and expand on information presented in abstract idea format. For those who can only regurgitate something someone's written, go look it up for yourself (PAC). I'm too busy to go look up and source what I already know.

 

[cbc]

PACtoDic, nice lies. I can really picture how all these MD residency directors are bowing to your feet because you were some PA. The Cali program you are referring is probably Kern, which is DO friendly but by no means a top allopathic residency. If you mean to say it is UCs, USC, or Stanford, this is impossible since they are extremely DO/FMG unfriendly. Either of the 2 scenarios, you are lying. While you are distinctly increasing your advantage by visiting all these sites, I'm doing what a good student is supposed to do which is study hard and get a good USMLE step 1 score. Maybe you didn't consider yourself RN bashing, but many nurses who responded after you sure considered it so.

Keep lying to yourself that my English is poor. Like I said, even if my English were poor, my intelligence is still at the level of Albert Einstein and 100x higher than yours. And...did you just call immigrant American citizens "foreign enemies?" That is just insensitivity and disrespect to many fellow Americans.

Ok, I am truly convinced PACtoDic is really mentally slow, plus he was born without parents that could've taught him some manners and common respect. His statements are either deceptive or make no sense. It's pointless to form arguments against him. OP, I strongly suggest you ignore everything PACtoDic says in making your decision.

 

[PACtoDOC]

The docs I work with now work their asses off for about 90K/yr. I'll make almost twice that my first year as a NP. .

I have heard some good ones, but to think that as an NP you will make 180K out of school is simply comical. Maybe in pesos, or monopoly money, or working in your second career in the nurse redlight district!! If you know some FP's making 90K, then you know some real idiots who choose to live and work in a place where they have some sort of agorophobic syndrome preventing them from leaving!! Check out the national average on FP's versus NP's. You are the one that likes stats so much. And if you think you are going to get respect because EMED speaks for you, well you are just wrong again. EMED isn't my father and I'll say what I please you freaking skirt.

 

[PACtoDOC]

CBC,
If you are so smart, and not worried about a measely DO, then how about putting your money where your mouth is regarding your USMLE score. I'll your eat your little jocky shorts should you come up with a score that beats mine. And I am saying that just having taken that bad boy last week. And sorry to bust your bubble, but there are DO's in all of Cali's best FP programs. Evidently you don't even know which programs are the best programs. Stanford?? Evidently you didn't do so well on your Stanford-Benet intelligence quotient!! Stanford is not somewhere people seek out for FP dude. I have visited the best program in Cali, which by the way is also the best program in the country. There is no such thing as DO unfriendly when you are talking about competition for FP residencies. There is not a residency in the country for FP that will not be happy to take a DO student if they have a qualified applicant. I don't need to lie to appease you of all people. Your just pissed because you can't fathom a DO doing the necessary things to get exactly the residency they want. I would be doing the same thing if I were an MD student. And dude, I wouldn't even had to have rocked the USMLE to land a top FP program anywhere. FP programs are littered with DO's. Many an MD program would have to shut down if DO's stopped coming to them. Even a significant number of FP MD programs are chaired by DO's, and yes, even in your beloved Cali. But remember one thing Fidel, a patient will always go to the caring American physician who understands their needs and has a mastery of the English language. It doesn't matter if you are Einstein if you can't conjugate a sentence. And don't forget this one little detail Dr. Einstein, TOS violations include anything that constitutes cursing or calling someone a commonly accepted slanderous term. Calling me a dick has just landed you on report to the moderator. It is one thing to push the envelope, but I sure hate to see someone like you go down that slippery slope. Enjoy your timeout. Oh, Einstein did not talk until he was 6. I guess we see your problem now!!

 

[lloydchristmas]

I have heard some good ones, but to think that as an NP you will make 180K out of school is simply comical. Maybe in pesos, or monopoly money, or working in your second career in the nurse redlight district!! If you know some FP's making 90K, then you know some real idiots who choose to live and work in a place where they have some sort of agorophobic syndrome preventing them from leaving!! Check out the national average on FP's versus NP's. You are the one that likes stats so much. And if you think you are going to get respect because EMED speaks for you, well you are just wrong again. EMED isn't my father and I'll say what I please you freaking skirt.

I forgot to post the website, so here it is:
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2003/11/10/prsd1110.htm

I don't care what you think I'll make; I've already sealed the deal. I'm sorry that pisses you off so much. I can't explain why they are staying for 90K a year. But I wasn't speaking of averages because everyone knows what they are (even you) because that is easily accessible information that you can read so you don't have to come up with it on your own.

You really should consider some Xanax or Ativan or something. Maybe it's your situation, but you've become a cynical, sad, tired person. I'm going to remain rather passive about this because I suspect you're a little person who got their ass kicked many times in his/her life which is why you throw meaningless attacks at screen names. Good luck with the rest of your career. You're gonna need it....

 

[PACtoDOC]

I forgot to post the website, so here it is:
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2003/11/10/prsd1110.htm



You really should consider some Xanax or Ativan or something. Maybe it's your situation, but you've become a cynical, sad, tired person. I'm going to remain rather passive about this because I suspect you're a little person who got their ass kicked many times in his/her life which is why you throw meaningless attacks at screen names. Good luck with the rest of your career. You're gonna need it....

WHATEVER skirt. I am done with you anyway. I have CBC to deal with right now

And this is the quote out of your link. ""The area of family medicine was created out of a social need, not by technologies or dividing up the human body," he said. "Social needs are changing, but our research shows people still want a personal physician who knows their history."

I don't see anything in that article that says patients want to start having all their primary healthcare done by a nurse...did you? All that article said was the obvious, which is that most medical students seek out the highest paying jobs. Surprise surprise Gomer, that was hard to fathom. If anything this creates a void where the pendulum will again swing back to FP being saught out like it was in the mid 90's. There will always be a need for an FP who wants to provide high quality PHYSICIAN care for their patients, be it city or rural. But you keep distorting the facts and maniplating the p-value like a good skirt. Is that the kind of math they taught you in NP school? Your own link shows that 23% of the FP program slots went unmatched when you specifically stated above that it was 47%. And that 23% is before the scramble, meaning that the majority were filled. Thats some really strange math my friend. This will be my last response to you.

 

[cbc]

Blah blah blah blah blah. Go on with your obstinate misrepresentations, misdemeanors, and mentally slow responses. It is pointless for me to speak with a person with those characteristics.

WHATEVER skirt. I am done with you anyway. I have CBC to deal with right now

And this is the quote out of your link. ""The area of family medicine was created out of a social need, not by technologies or dividing up the human body," he said. "Social needs are changing, but our research shows people still want a personal physician who knows their history."

I don't see anything in that article that says patients want to start having all their primary healthcare done by a nurse...did you? All that article said was the obvious, which is that most medical students seek out the highest paying jobs. Surprise surprise Gomer, that was hard to fathom. If anything this creates a void where the pendulum will again swing back to FP being saught out like it was in the mid 90's. There will always be a need for an FP who wants to provide high quality PHYSICIAN care for their patients, be it city or rural. But you keep distorting the facts and maniplating the p-value like a good skirt. This will be my last response to you.

 

[PACtoDOC]

CBC, how about you create a new thread called the "TOEFL hangout" and I promise to stay there as long as you want trading blows? But lets allow these poor bystanders to get out before we start hammering it out. This thread is dead as far as I am concerned. All points I made were proven with fact and substance, which is more than I can say for Lloyd "fuzzymath" Skirt, and CBC "Smudgecell" Castro. You can have the last word you two, because it will just end as always with your 1st MTP somewhere around your valecula.

 

[lloydchristmas]

WHATEVER skirt. I am done with you anyway. I have CBC to deal with right now

And this is the quote out of your link. ""The area of family medicine was created out of a social need, not by technologies or dividing up the human body," he said. "Social needs are changing, but our research shows people still want a personal physician who knows their history."

I don't see anything in that article that says patients want to start having all their primary healthcare done by a nurse...did you? All that article said was the obvious, which is that most medical students seek out the highest paying jobs. Surprise surprise Gomer, that was hard to fathom. If anything this creates a void where the pendulum will again swing back to FP being saught out like it was in the mid 90's. There will always be a need for an FP who wants to provide high quality PHYSICIAN care for their patients, be it city or rural. But you keep distorting the facts and maniplating the p-value like a good skirt. Is that the kind of math they taught you in NP school? Your own link shows that 23% of the FP program slots went unmatched when you specifically stated above that it was 47%. And that 23% is before the scramble, meaning that the majority were filled. Thats some really strange math my friend. This will be my last response to you.

Alright fine, *****. I'll come down here and play awhile. I said LAST year, and the article is covering 2002 IDIOT. So before you start a fight you better know who the F*CK you're dealing with. If you want to argue face to face, you let me know when and where. By the way, why don't you tell me your name and where you practice so I can swing by if I'm in the neighborhood. I suspect you'd crawl back to your mom's basement and start jerking off again if you actually got in an argument with a real person.

 

[flighterdoc]

OK, have we had enough?

This thread has deteriorated far beyond what I'd consider appropriate for a bar, much less SDN. Time for everyone to drink up and go home.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

So what do you all think about Dentists?

 

[flighterdoc]

So what do you all think about Dentists?

LOL, couldn't break double digits on the MCAT? J/K....

 

[cbc]

Your posts add comic relief to my life. Keep up the work.

Btw I got $100 on lloyd if anyone is willing to bet on the boxing match.

CBC, how about you create a new thread called the "TOEFL hangout" and I promise to stay there as long as you want trading blows? But lets allow these poor bystanders to get out before we start hammering it out. This thread is dead as far as I am concerned. All points I made were proven with fact and substance, which is more than I can say for Lloyd "fuzzymath" Skirt, and CBC "Smudgecell" Castro. You can have the last word you two, because it will just end as always with your 1st MTP somewhere around your valecula.

 

[Lee]

cbc, PACtoDOC, and Lloydchristmas have all been placed on a 3 day ban for TOS violations. Please keep discussions professional -- flamewars and personal insults are not appropriate in the PA forum.