PA vs. SMP program

[marinak]

Hi all,
This is my first time posting on SDN, but I have done a lot of reading about the differences between post-bac/plain Master's/SMP porgram. You have some really insightful suggestions, so I wanted to get your advice.
I'm graduating this year with a Neuro/Psych major so I have taken all the basic pre-med reqs and then some. My GPA(specifically my Science) GPA sucks <3.0 although there has been an improvement in the last 2 semesters. My counselor recomended(and I agree) that I focus on some sort of graduate program to have a good slate of graduate grades b/c it would take me a REALLY LONG time to raise undergrad grades to a 3.0. Taking the GRE in a week, but no MCAT yet.
So, I've made a plan to apply to the following basic medical science master's/SMP. Drexel IMP, UMDNJ, MAMS, NY Medical College, Loyala, Rosalind Franklin. Some time ago, I decided against applying to Physician's Assistant but now looking at what I will get in the master's programs, I am reconsidering. Most of the programs are 2 years, there's no guarantee at the end for the dedication and expense, and i'm not interested in doing research.
I know most PA deadlines are past, but I've just found out about two solid ones to which i could still apply and into which I MIGHT have a small chance. PA has great job opportunities, program gives both solid science classes and clinical experience, and if I decide, can apply to medical school afterwards, in the same amount of time a science master's will take. I understand the "ethical" objections of taking a spot in PA class that someone truly desires(considering it HEAVILY), and I'm not certain I wouldn't continue in PA. Wouldn't the PA program be a better preparation for later application into medical school then a master's program and a better investment? Pros?Cons? Do med school look less /more favorably on such applicants? Anyone considered this? THANKS!
*please move to non-trad forum if more applicable

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[relentless11]

The sad truth is that the undergrad GPA is ultimately a bigger player than any graduate level courses, and that includes courses taken as a masters, PhD, PA, or even any other professional program (dental, law, etc). The reason being: (1) the vast majority of applicants apply with ONLY undergrad grades, this it would be unfair to compare ones graduate level coursework to a student with just undergrad work, (2) you are expected to get a high GPA in grad school, since a B- is considered failing, so most grad GPA's are quite high anyways., (3) some med schools screen UNDERGRAD GPA, therefore even with a 4.0 in a PA or grad program, you may still be knocked out of the application game if your undergrad GPA does not meet the cut-offs.

The reason to be a PA, RN, paramedic, or whatever other healthcare related profession to "prepare" for med school is moot. Each profession is different, you may have an advantage here and there, but if you are deficient in say academic work, then you will still have problems during the MS1/MS2 years not to mention Step 1. This is why GPA/MCAT are so important to med school. They have been statistically correlated with success in med school classes AND USMLE step 1.

What I'm getting at is, you got yourself into that GPA hole, and it is better to get out of it, than to focus on something else...a distraction per se. That GPA will still be there, and if the overall is <3.0, you are probably better off getting it as close as possible, if not past 3.0. Take it from a person who is getting out of that hole. I had a 2.65 GPA out of undergrad. Since post-bacc was too expensive, I went the PhD route through our medical school. This allowed me to: (1) take medical school classes (e.g., like an SMP), and (2) also take undergrad upperdivision courses as electives to boost my undergrad GPA. I should acheive an overall undergrad GPA of 3.0+ by the time I apply, combined with a 4.0 in medical school level, and graduate level classes. I am able to do this because: (1) my PI understands my ultimate goals, and (2) I have time to take undergrad classes given that I've been working on my PhD project during the latter half of my undergrad days.

So yea, even though I will have a PhD when applying to medical school, as advised by our director of admissions, i MUST improve my undergrad GPA, regardless of my 4.0 and 36 MCAT score. On a side note, I am also looking at this from the perspective of the University of California school system too, so UC GPA/MCAT values are usually higher vs. national averages. In summary, I don't think med schools look down upon ANY degree or profession, but they certainly look down upon: (1) low overall GPA, and (2) not adequately addressing deficiencies (e.g., low GPA). A <3.0 GPA is a real handicap IMO, and every effort should be made to improve upon that. You may also want to look into DO programs, which would actually allow you to improve your GPA faster, given that they allow you to replace bad grades with better grades if you do better when retaking the class. Good luck!

 

[deleted6669]

first it's PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT ( no 's).
second pa programs generally require prior medical experience and training( 125 of 140 do) so if you don't already have some it will be tough to get into a pa program.with a science gpa less than 3.0 you will not get into a pa program so save yourself the cost of the application. it is a fairly competitive process. at my local program the avg accepted applicant has 8000 hrs of medical experience at the level of emt/rt/rn. they receive over 1000 applications for 30 spots. a friend of mine who has been an er nurse for 10 yrs and has a 3.2 sci gpa didn't even get an interview.....
go to the carribean or get your grades up and apply us md. pa is not the path for you.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I agree with relentless, you need a GPA at least close to 3.0. What you should do depends on a few things: where you live, where you went to Ugrad, how far the GPA is from 3.0.

If you live in Ca follow what relentless said. If you live pretty much anywhere else you will have a much easier time than he did.

While where you went to Ugrad won't change you chances that much but it will be easier if you went to a good school as opposed to a less reputable one.

Finally, if your GPA is far away from 3.0 you really should do some Ugrad work and boost that GPA. It also will be hard to find an SMP program that will accept you if the grades are too low. If very close to 3.0 you could try your chances with an SMP. I had a 2.8 did an SMP and got into med school that year. It can be done but you really need to knock the SMP out of the park.