Pace University- PsyD program

[insideout1010]

Hello everyone,

I feel grateful that I found a forum like this and I would like to receive some advice from you.

I was accepted to Pace University's psyD program, but I don't see any recent information about the program here. Particularly, I'm interested in the reputation of the program and graduates, and job prospects. Thankfully, I don't have to worry about funding. This is a major life time decision and I try to think carefully.

Also, could anyone who works as a school psychologist or clinical psychologist in NYC area share their experiences? What your days are like? What do you like/not like about your job? I'm geographically restricted, so ideally school psychologist positions in Long Island (Nassau or West Suffolk) or Westchester, or clinical positions in these areas and NYC would be great. But I want to get a sense of how realistic that will be after getting a PsyD from Pace.

Any general comments or advice are all welcome. Thank you.

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[deleted343839]

A simple but compelling marker of a program's reputation is the match rate to APA-accredited internships. I did a quick search and found that students in the Pace PsyD program match to APA-accredited internships a little over half the time. That is considered a poor match rate. The fact that you are geographically restricted would also put you at risk for not matching, since you'd be applying in a popular area of the country. I am also bothered by the fact that a couple of students in each cohort accept UNPAID internships, which is virtually unheard of in reputable training programs.

At $40K a year this is not a good value for your money. If you want to work in the schools you might look at the more reputable master's degree programs.

 

[psych.meout]

Large urban and metropolitan areas like NYC, Chicago, Boston, SoCal, the Bay Area, DC, etc., are already heavily saturated with grad students and psychologists. Thus, competition is going to be fierce for everything from external practica during grad school to internships to post docs to general employment after graduating. This would make your geographic restrictions already difficult if you were going to a high quality program, but it will be even more problematic to compete coming from a program that has difficulty matching its students to accredited internships half the time, as MamaPhD notes. Adding onto this that the program costs nearly $38,000 per year in tuition alone before accounting for interest accrued, living expenses, and other fees (e.g. conference travel, books, etc.), I would probably decline the offer.

 

[insideout1010]

Thank you for your responses, MamaPhD and psych.meout.
I was unsure about their internship match rate as well. But I wonder whether it can be partly because it's a combined program of clinical and school psychology?

In terms of tuition, all my tuition is covered (at least for the first three years), so I won't be paying out-of-pocket. Still, it's significant investment of time and energy, and there's always an opportunity cost you need to consider, I believe.

BTW, I was looking at below in terms of internship match rate, and the match rate seems to be a bit higher than 50% as MamaPdD said. Is this the correct one? Just want to make sure I'm looking at the right one.
http://www.appic.org/Portals/0/downloads/APPIC Match Rates 2011-16 by Univ.pdf

 

[psych.meout]

In terms of tuition, all my tuition is covered (at least for the first three years), so I won't be paying out-of-pocket. Still, it's significant investment of time and energy, and there's always an opportunity cost you need to consider, I believe.

BTW, I was looking at below in terms of internship match rate, and the match rate seems to be a bit higher than 50% as MamaPdD said. Is this the correct one? Just want to make sure I'm looking at the right one.
http://www.appic.org/Portals/0/downloads/APPIC Match Rates 2011-16 by Univ.pdf

That chart can be a bit confusing and misleading if you don't know to read it properly. To get the proper accredited internship match rate, divide the number of applicants who matched to an accredited internship which is listed in the second column from the right by the total number of registered applicants in the column second from the left.

Use this chart instead:
http://appsrv.pace.edu/dyson/media/pdf/psych-nyc/Student_Admissions_Outcomes_and_Other_Data_2016.pdf

For five out of the past seven years, they barely matched at more than 50%, which is unacceptably low. The other two years were significantly better, but they still couldn't break 80%.

Thank you for your responses, MamaPhD and psych.meout.
I was unsure about their internship match rate as well. But I wonder whether it can be partly because it's a combined program of clinical and school psychology?

That really shouldn't matter, if it's a good program its students should be able to reliably match to APA accredited internships, especially as not doing so will lock them out of many jobs (e.g. good AMCs and children's hospitals) and make them less than competitive for the jobs they do qualify for compared to job applicants who had accredited internships. If you compare the PDF you posted from APPIC with the one I posted, you'll see that basically all the students in the program are registering and applying for accredited internships, so it's clearly something that's important to them.

 

[pediatric_psydoc]

Yes, it is extremely important to research the match rate of students to APA accredited internships. As psych.meout said, not matching to one often automatically prohibits you from applying to jobs or postdocs at AMC and children's hospitals, and always prohibits you from working at a VA. And yes, it is possible to be an exception to the rule and match to an APA accredited internship when the majority of fellow students don't, but that is a huge unlikelihood to count on. Some sites won't even interview students from schools with low APA match rates (this can serve as an easy weed out criterion when sites receive a high volume of applications).

I attend an APA accredited PsyD program with decent match rates to APA internships, but if I was 22 again and looking at schools, I would have waited, strengthened my application with research experience, and applied when I was more competitive to PhD schools. I did match to an APA site with two-thirds of the year devoted to working with children (my goal is to gain a postdoc at a children's hospital), but I wonder if I had attended a PhD school if maybe I would have been interviewed at an APA accredited children's hospital (which was my goal for internship). I'll never know but still it's hard not to wonder.


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[insideout1010]

Thank you, sabine-psyd, for sharing your experience. I see your point. Reapplying next year is definitely an option that I've been thinking about. But I'm leaning more toward working as a school psychologist in a school, (although I'm not entirely ruling out clinical side), so I feel a bit hesitant about going that route..

 

[insideout1010]

That chart can be a bit confusing and misleading if you don't know to read it properly. To get the proper accredited internship match rate, divide the number of applicants who matched to an accredited internship which is listed in the second column from the right by the total number of registered applicants in the column second from the left.

Use this chart instead:
http://appsrv.pace.edu/dyson/media/pdf/psych-nyc/Student_Admissions_Outcomes_and_Other_Data_2016.pdf

For five out of the past seven years, they barely matched at more than 50%, which is unacceptably low. The other two years were significantly better, but they still couldn't break 80%.



That really shouldn't matter, if it's a good program its students should be able to reliably match to APA accredited internships, especially as not doing so will lock them out of many jobs (e.g. good AMCs and children's hospitals) and make them less than competitive for the jobs they do qualify for compared to job applicants who had accredited internships. If you compare the PDF you posted from APPIC with the one I posted, you'll see that basically all the students in the program are registering and applying for accredited internships, so it's clearly something that's important to them.

Thank you for posting the chart, psych.meout. It's easier to understand this one, although the numbers don't look great.

 

[psych.meout]

Thank you, sabine-psyd, for sharing your experience. I see your point. Reapplying next year is definitely an option that I've been thinking about. But I'm leaning more toward working as a school psychologist in a school, (although I'm not entirely ruling out clinical side), so I feel a bit hesitant about going that route..

Well, if you have inclinations to clinical work, you have get licensed, which requires an internship and post doc hours or even a formal post doc. If your internship isn't APA accredited it will close many doors to you. Whatever you do, don't buy into the propaganda from the programs, current students, grads, etc. that low APA internship match rates aren't a big deal, because you can still go into private practice without them. While this may be true in many states, it's far from ideal, especially as private practices will underpay you, because they know they can get away with it if you don't have an APA internship.