Pacific Northwest - OHSU and UW?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

pregnant

New Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hello,

What are some people's impressions of either of these programs (OHSU and UW)? (I couldn't find much about either on scutwork.com) What are prospects like for fellowship placement after residency and are there other quality community-based programs in Portland and Seattle with good fellowship opportunities? Or should I concentrate on California programs if I want to pursue fellowship post residency? Lastly..what's the job market like in the pacific northwest...specifically portland or seattle. Comments from residents at either OHSU or UW would be ESPECIALLY appreciated! thanks.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
pregnant said:
Hello,

What are some people's impressions of either of these programs (OHSU and UW)? (I couldn't find much about either on scutwork.com) What are prospects like for fellowship placement after residency and are there other quality community-based programs in Portland and Seattle with good fellowship opportunities? Or should I concentrate on California programs if I want to pursue fellowship post residency? Lastly..what's the job market like in the pacific northwest...specifically portland or seattle. Comments from residents at either OHSU or UW would be ESPECIALLY appreciated! thanks.

I'm not a resident but I'm an MS4 applying to both programs. I grew up in Portland and went to college in Seattle and am hoping to get back there so I've looked into some of these questions as well.

UW is considered an outstanding program with a stellar national reputation. It is generally considered to be on par with UCSF & Stanford in terms of quality of training and fellowship placement (though some might argue that UCSF is slightly better than UW I suppose). If you go to UW you will have no problem getting fellowships anywhere in the country. Even their Primary Care track has a great record of fellowship placement, and it's somewhat less competitive than the Traditional track. I did an away rotation at UW and was really impressed by the residents and attendings there. Another bonus at UW is that many of their fellowships (e.g. ID, Pulm/CC) are among the best in the country. Many of their attendings are considered experts in their fields, which is also helpful when doing research and obtaining LOR for fellowships.

From what I've heard OHSU is also an excellent program, though not as highly-regarded on the national level as UW. I am not sure where it would fall in relation to the Cali programs. Their residents seem to get decent fellowships, but many stay at OHSU and those that leave go to somewhat less prestigious places than UW. Of course it is always hard to know whether people are staying at their home program because they choose to or because that is their only option. I think this is even more difficult to tell with OHSU because Portland is a very close-knit medical community. Most physicians in Oregon have done some part of their training at OHSU. People fall in love with the area and end up staying. So if you aren't sure you would want to stay local, it would probably be good to ask some more questions about their fellowship placement at your interview (that is what I plan to do).

The community program in Seattle is Virginia Mason and the three in Portland are Providence Portland, Providence St. Vincent, and Legacy Emanuel. I've heard from several PD's that they are very high-quality community programs but they are still community programs so less residents go into fellowships than at OHSU and UW and they go to less prestigious places. I would say they are generally on par with Cal Pacific but that's just speculation. If you have trouble finding their websites PM me and I'll send them to you.

Hope this helps!
 
Thank you both.

The links and info were very helpful. It was a bit disconcerting that both programs (esp. UW) are a bit top heavy on the brand name med schools in terms of where their categorical medicine interns come from...I had hoped the progressive northwest would be a little bit more accomodating.

I don't know if either of you know this, but is malpractice insurance a particular problem in oregon or washington?

thanks.
 
Thank you for the info on the programs. I'm also wondering about the cost of living at both places and whether residents' salaries are sufficient. Thanks!
 
pregnant said:
Thank you both.

The links and info were very helpful. It was a bit disconcerting that both programs (esp. UW) are a bit top heavy on the brand name med schools in terms of where their categorical medicine interns come from...I had hoped the progressive northwest would be a little bit more accomodating.

I don't know if either of you know this, but is malpractice insurance a particular problem in oregon or washington?

thanks.

No problem. It is definitely tough to match at UW, but I don't think you have to be at a big name school. My school is about #30 on the US News list and we've sent several people there. You would need to be a very competitive applicant, however, no matter where you come from. Also, they like people who are genuinely interested in the program and living in Seattle, so consider doign a visiting rotation if you really want to go there. I did that and everyone told me how much of a difference it would make. (Of course I won't really know until March...) From what I've heard if you are a solid applicant from any school you should have a decent chance at OHSU, so don't be too discouraged.

I'm sorry but I don't know about malpractice insurance issues, since I am currently in med school out of state. I believe there was going to be a liability limits measure on the Washington state ballot yesterday but I haven't heard how it turned out.

The cost of living in Seattle is relatively high and it would be difficult to buy a house on a resident's salary. Houses are cheaper once you get further from the city, but that makes the commute to the hospital pretty long (and even a short commute in Seattle is a pain because the traffic is horrible). On the other hand, the cost of living is nowhere near that of cities like NYC or San Francisco. It is definitely possible to rent a decent place in a fun part of town and enjoy all of Seattle's great restaurants and entertainment on a resident's salary - if you can find the time!

The cost of living in Portland is not as high as Seattle although it is on the upswing. I haven't researched Portland housing market recently so I'm not sure how feasible it is to buy a house on a resident's salary there. Again, a resident's salary should be plenty to rent a nice place and enjoy the city. If you have any other questions about living in either city, let me know. As you can see I love to talk about the Pacific Northwest! It is a wonderful place to live.
 
I recently went to OHSU for an away- here's a quick "snapshot" impression:

+'s
- Bright, friendly attendings (read: nonmalignant)- I packed a whole bunch of knowledge into my 4 weeks there.
- Houstaff appeared prepared, hardworking, knowledgable : that goes for the ones from the "top heavy" schools as well as the not so well known programs
- good AM report/noon confrerence structure, with the latter being on a 18-month rotation by subspec. (ie "october is endocrine month") w/ a intern "survivor series" in july/august - a lot of formal quality teaching.


-'s
- Difficult phys. plant to work in: take a look at any map of the Univ. hosp. to get the idea: the VA and OHSU is connected by a 1/8 mi (actual length for you trivia buffs) bridge, with most of the subspec. and ICU at the Univ. and the Univ. gen med wards on VA floors. Basically this means a LOT of long walks, initial confusion (for yourself and the pt.) and a long transfer to the MICU if your pt. is crashing (either that, or they end up staying at the VA ICU!)
- There is recent upheaval in the cards dept. w/ a LOT of new hires and dept. reorganization. May end up being for the better w/ a return of a real CCU rotation and more research ops, but there is brouhaha nonetheless.
- No Heme/Onc inpt. experience 😡

That's pretty much it- All in all, I think I'm going to rank OHSU b/c of Portland- A GORGEOUS city that is still liveable (I looked at prices while I was there- 220K will buy you a decent house, not the greatest but good enough- although prices still increasing...) I DO have the feeling that if the program were in the midwest or south, there wouldn't be the same quality of residents applying or high quality faculty, but that prob. could be said for a lot of places 🙄

take this for what you will (OHSU students/residents- let me know if I'm totally off base!)
 
again, people, one thing you should consider is also location..

you should definitely buy a property if you are doing residency...60% of my friends are doing that? How could they afford it? simply, they chose programs that are strong, but not the strongest, they picked cushier programs, that are not malignant, and also most importantly...

they picked locations where they can buy property...

Seattle is WAY OVER PRICED...you can definitely buy property in oregon, and sell it off at the end of 3 years...portland is definitely more affordable...

how long are you guys planning to stay under studnet loans?
 
InternalWhizzzz said:
again, people, one thing you should consider is also location..

you should definitely buy a property if you are doing residency...60% of my friends are doing that? How could they afford it? simply, they chose programs that are strong, but not the strongest, they picked cushier programs, that are not malignant, and also most importantly...

they picked locations where they can buy property...

Seattle is WAY OVER PRICED...you can definitely buy property in oregon, and sell it off at the end of 3 years...portland is definitely more affordable...

how long are you guys planning to stay under studnet loans?

I completely agree that location should be a huge consideration when choosing a residency spot. I also generally agree that buying property is a wise thing to do. However, I think it's a bit extreme to say that everyone should "definitely" do so. I think it's an individualized decision depending on many issues, such as:
-Are you willing to have your $$ tied up in your home equity rather than spending it?
-Are you interested in putting in the time & money to maintain your house & yard, do repairs, etc?
-If an expensive repair is needed, will your income support it in addition to the monthly house payment?
-Is three years enough time to make a profit from your purchase? (In both Portland and Seattle, home prices have so dramatically that some are predicting the bubble will burst. Of course, others say that will never happen, but it's something to think about.)
-What will you trade off for owning a home? Overpriced cities are often overpriced for a reason - they have other things to offer. For instance, I could buy a beautiful, large home in Upstate NY. But I'm sick of the snow and both my husband and I are happier when we are in the NW. It's home for us. So we'd actually rather be in Seattle, even if we have to rent.

Anyway, I also think the difference between Seattle and Portland is not as dramatic as you suggest. Both are overpriced - I think Seattle was #1 and Portland #3 from a recent study that was in the news, which compared the median income to the median home price (if I remember correctly). So, while houses are very expensive in Seattle, they are certainly not cheap in Portland, and one must consider that the median income is lower in Portland than Seattle. I do realize that for residents this doesn't matter as much, since the salary is pretty similar everywhere. But if you are married, it can make a big difference. For example, I know for a fact that my husband can make significantly more money in Seattle compared to Portland.

Anyway, I'm no expert on finances or homebuying, so feel free to let me know if I'm off base here. I just wanted to put out another point of view for the sake of discussion.
 
BigBadBix said:
I completely agree that location should be a huge consideration when choosing a residency spot. I also generally agree that buying property is a wise thing to do. However, I think it's a bit extreme to say that everyone should "definitely" do so. I think it's an individualized decision depending on many issues, such as:
-Are you willing to have your $$ tied up in your home equity rather than spending it?
-Are you interested in putting in the time & money to maintain your house & yard, do repairs, etc?
-If an expensive repair is needed, will your income support it in addition to the monthly house payment?
-Is three years enough time to make a profit from your purchase? (In both Portland and Seattle, home prices have so dramatically that some are predicting the bubble will burst. Of course, others say that will never happen, but it's something to think about.)
-What will you trade off for owning a home? Overpriced cities are often overpriced for a reason - they have other things to offer. For instance, I could buy a beautiful, large home in Upstate NY. But I'm sick of the snow and both my husband and I are happier when we are in the NW. It's home for us. So we'd actually rather be in Seattle, even if we have to rent.

Anyway, I also think the difference between Seattle and Portland is not as dramatic as you suggest. Both are overpriced - I think Seattle was #1 and Portland #3 from a recent study that was in the news, which compared the median income to the median home price (if I remember correctly). So, while houses are very expensive in Seattle, they are certainly not cheap in Portland, and one must consider that the median income is lower in Portland than Seattle. I do realize that for residents this doesn't matter as much, since the salary is pretty similar everywhere. But if you are married, it can make a big difference. For example, I know for a fact that my husband can make significantly more money in Seattle compared to Portland.

Anyway, I'm no expert on finances or homebuying, so feel free to let me know if I'm off base here. I just wanted to put out another point of view for the sake of discussion.

oh definitely, I agree with most of the things you said. By definately, I meant, if we all "CAN", we should give it a try, besides you can also rent out the other rooms if you are single 😉 and get cash towards the mortgage...

In any case, obviously it isn't feasible in every situation, for example, forget about California or New York (it's dorms or apartments). But if you do end up somewhere else, any condo below 250K for example, is doable. The mortgage comes around to $2100. Pick up two roomates, at 500$ a pop, then your monthly rent would be about $1000. Not too shabby, and at the end of three years, you sell the place, "pay back some of the student loans", and "build equity"...so when you become an attending, then you can buy the real big thing all for yourself.

Last time, I looked at property prices in portland versus seattle, there was a 100K difference. So somewhat of a big difference in terms of monthly mortgage..

You know at the end of the day, if you guys want the fellowship...you will end up getting it no matter where you go.

It's like, the fuss people made over the "ivy league school colleges, then the top medical schools, and now residency"..

I just want to say at the end of the day, remember why you were doing this,

1) To be a great doctor, great training and provide the best for your patients
2) To be happy, and enjoy the next three years,
3) Pick a location, and a program that treats you well.

So I mean, all the comparisons people make to columbia, cornell, brigham, northwestern, ucla is all good and everything.

But at the end of the guys, do you honestly think that there is a HUGE difference in all these programs..

don't forget to enjoy life in the process...this is the time to get married, have the kids, live in the HOUSE that you always wanted to 🙂

so go out and smell the roses for god's sake...you are all going to be wonderful doctors...
 
Maybe I'll get someone I know to post some info about OHSU (since he's a 4th year)...

Anyway, I live in Portland right now (it's raining, of course and will be until June) and I agree that's it's an amazing town. It's gorgeous, with great food, friendly people, and lots of "outdoors-y" stuff to do (if you're into that, which most people here seem to be). Apartments are fairly cheap (we're paying $300/month to share a 3 bedroom near OHSU), esp. in northeast (sort of the bad area of town), but there's a pretty wide variation in quality/price. You can get a studio for $500, but it may be a crap shoot. Buying houses can get quite spendy, though. You can find a house around here for $200,000 but it's not going to get you anything great. Most "nice" houses go for $400,000 (at least) anywhere near downtown. Of course, if you're coming from Boston, NYC, D.C., or god forbid, San Fran, this is going to seem like a huge savings...

You do have to factor in that fabulous OR state income tax (about 33% of income goes to federal and local taxes) and fairly steep property taxes. There's also an extra special Multonmah County tax, but they may repeal that.

PDX is a great place, very liberal, lots of "hippies", large gay/lesbian community, and a great selection of places to eat (lots of local food).

OHSU (second hand info, but I'm quite close to the source 😉 ) doesn't seem to be malignant (for medicine. Surgery might be another story) for either residents or med students. Some very impressive attendings and I believe there is a fairly "laid back" attitude in the main. I think that people are drawn to the program because of Portland, but OHSU is still a good place to train. Not as good as UW, but then, Seattle has crap traffic and even MORE rain...

I definetly urge all you guys to visit PDX if you can. But I would suggest coming in July!
 
But at the end of the guys, do you honestly think that there is a HUGE difference in all these programs..

don't forget to enjoy life in the process...this is the time to get married, have the kids, live in the HOUSE that you always wanted to 🙂

so go out and smell the roses for god's sake...you are all going to be wonderful doctors...

Couldn't agree more. The name on your white coat is not what will make you a good doctor. It's seeing patients and learning from them and about them. You will learn better if you are happy and not stressed out. If you have to drive an up-armored Humvee between your home and the hospital or live in a van down by the river, maybe that fancy diploma and the "ooh's" you get when you mention where you study are not worth it.
 
Top