Pageants and Derm Residency Application

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gotanygrapes

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Hi everyone! I was just wondering how dermatology residencies would look upon a medical student actively competing in pageants. I understand that most derm residencies do not want applicants who are only interested in cosmetics and participation in these activities may cast these applications in that light; however, there is scholarship money involved that I am interested in.

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I could be wrong, but even if an applicant demonstrates interest in cosmetics and has an application to back this up, I wouldn’t imagine that residency programs would look negatively on that. Obviously, there are nuances to this, but cosmetics is a large part of dermatology. However, your hobby doesn’t have much to do with dermatology so I wouldn’t imagine it would make a huge impact. Would be curious to hear what others have to say though.
 
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I could be wrong, but even if an applicant demonstrates interest in cosmetics and has an application to back this up, I wouldn’t imagine that residency programs would look negatively on that. Obviously, there are nuances to this, but cosmetics is a large part of dermatology. However, your hobby doesn’t have much to do with dermatology so I wouldn’t imagine it would make a huge impact. Would be curious to hear what others have to say though.
Interviewed at 17 programs and got to know many more during residency

Many many programs would very much be turned off by an incoming interest in cosmetics, as would I
 
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Interviewed at 17 programs and got to know many more during residency

Many many programs would very much be turned off by an incoming interest in cosmetics, as would I

Hm interesting. So research into cosmetics is frowned upon? To be fair, I don’t know if there even is research related to cosmetics
 
I could be wrong, but even if an applicant demonstrates interest in cosmetics and has an application to back this up, I wouldn’t imagine that residency programs would look negatively on that. Obviously, there are nuances to this, but cosmetics is a large part of dermatology. However, your hobby doesn’t have much to do with dermatology so I wouldn’t imagine it would make a huge impact. Would be curious to hear what others have to say though.
You are definitely wrong. Cosmetics is a tiny fraction of dermtology training during residency, and many programs aren't that strong in cosmetics, and some lack the training entirely. Most of the cosmetics learning is self directed and done after hours with free samples and teaching patients. I would guess most programs are spending 0-5% of their total training hours actively doing cosmetic procedures or workshops.

Many faculty and programs overall harbor a disdain for cosmetics and look very unfavorably on graduating residents who pursue heavy or pure cosmetic practices. Many of these faculty view cosmetics as a stain to the field and feel that it discredits or cheapens the reputation of dermatologists (this is their viewpoint not necessarily mine). Despite this most programs realize that cosmetic training is important for recruitment, and is something that a lot of residents desire, so many programs have a few core faculty who practice cosmetics in their clinics and take the time to teach the residents these skills.

Needless to say cosmetics is a very controversial topic, with many strong opinions in academic dermatology, but almost universally anything that signals a strong interest in a cosmetic career will be viewed negatively by dermatology departments.
 
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Yep, most programs don't look kindly on someone coming in gunning for cosmetics. No program wants to start to be known as 'that program' that churns out all the laser/botox/filler docs.

Is it important for us to own cosmetics so they are performed in the safest way possible (compared to other non physicians)? Yes. However, that doesn't translate into programs generally welcoming with open arms someone who expresses a huge interest in it from the start.

And there is a decent amount of research that goes into cosmetics.

 
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You are definitely wrong. Cosmetics is a tiny fraction of dermtology training during residency, and many programs aren't that strong in cosmetics, and some lack the training entirely. Most of the cosmetics learning is self directed and done after hours with free samples and teaching patients. I would guess most programs are spending 0-5% of their total training hours actively doing cosmetic procedures or workshops.

Many faculty and programs overall harbor a disdain for cosmetics and look very unfavorably on graduating residents who pursue heavy or pure cosmetic practices. Many of these faculty view cosmetics as a stain to the field and feel that it discredits or cheapens the reputation of dermatologists (this is their viewpoint not necessarily mine). Despite this most programs realize that cosmetic training is important for recruitment, and is something that a lot of residents desire, so many programs have a few core faculty who practice cosmetics in their clinics and take the time to teach the residents these skills.

Needless to say cosmetics is a very controversial topic, with many strong opinions in academic dermatology, but almost universally anything that signals a strong interest in a cosmetic career will be viewed negatively by dermatology departments.

Interesting. I didn’t know this. Thanks for sharing.
 
IN a similar vein are all letters weighted the same? I have seen people claim that it's the content of the letter not the name but I can't help but roll my eyes at this especially looking up old threads on SDN where even the people trying to pretend to use objective "standardized letters" throw all of that out the window when it's a name they recognize
No all letters are not weighted the same. Name matters so get the biggest name you can find to write you the best possible letter
 
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Im a lurker here (peds cardiac anesthesia) and not in derm but was wondering…do you have to do derm to do cosmetics/aesthetics? A family friend is a m4 and applying next year (and understandably worried about matching).

She is a smart cookie (AOA/good scores/research etc)but worried; I told her she would be fine, and worst case situation she could match into something else and slum it with me and the other gas guys that do Botox on the side. She wasn’t very impressed lol.

Maybe I’m wrong but I see internal med/anesthesiologists/plastics/family medicine/ even NPs (some states have independent NPs) open cosmetic/aesthetic clinics. They use lasers/skin peels etc. Is this similar to cosmetic derm? It doesn’t have the allure or prestige that a derm residency/fellowship entails, but do they do similar things to a cosmetic dermatologist? Some of them are board certified by this group


which is not acgme certified. I guess billing insurance would be hard, but they are all universal cash pay, so it doesn’t seem to matter

Forgive me for my ignorance; I occasionally help out with botox injections for private clients of a company in the area. I don’t know much about the field except you guys were really helpful when dealing with SJ syndrome in the CVICU and there was no way I heck I could get into derm in med school.
 
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Im a lurker here (peds cardiac anesthesia) and not in derm but was wondering…do you have to do derm to do cosmetics/aesthetics? A family friend is a m4 and applying next year (and understandably worried about matching).

She is a smart cookie (AOA/good scores/research etc)but worried; I told her she would be fine, and worst case situation she could match into something else and slum it with me and the other gas guys that do Botox on the side. She wasn’t very impressed lol.

Maybe I’m wrong but I see internal med/anesthesiologists/plastics/family medicine/ even NPs (some states have independent NPs) open cosmetic/aesthetic clinics. They use lasers/skin peels etc. Is this similar to cosmetic derm? It certainly doesn’t have the allure or prestige that a derm residency/fellowship entails, but do they do similar things to a cosmetic dermatologist? Some of them are board certified by this group


Which is not acgme certified. I guess billing insurance would be hard, but they are all universal cash pay, so it doesn’t seem to matter

Forgive me for my ignorance, I just occasionally help out with Botox parties for well-to-do older women when I’m out of the hospital. I don’t know much about the field except you guys were really helpful when dealing with SJ syndrome in the CVICU and there was no way I heck I could get into it in med school.

You don't have to do derm, there is a pathway to be a good cosmetic physician via plastic surgery, ENT, etc

As you mentioned, you see plenty of other specialties try to get in on cosmetics. It is like anything else in medicine, with enough practice, you will become good at it.

The question is, if you aren't going through those aforementioned specialties, where are you getting the practice reps with good supervision? I received what I perceived to be bare minimum training in cosmetics during dermatology residency and felt more comfortable with cosmetic procedures after a procedural dermatology fellowship.

I know plenty of dermatologists who make a very good living doing pure cosmetics. Conversely, most of my practice pushes the cosmetics to the mid-levels as they don't want to deal with the hassle or simply lack interest. (Without high volume, you'll also find cosmetic dermatology isn't quite as lucrative as it would appear)
 
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I would 100% leave pageants off the CV.
 
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Literally one of the incoming T3 program derm PGY2s is a former pageant queen and acknowledges her former pageant experience. I don't think it's a bad experience at all OP, it's very unique and I think provides a lot of cool insight (as well as good interview skills/demeanor!). The only wrong path to take about it would be (like others said) focusing exclusively on the cosmetic aspect of the field. If you can't tie a non-cosmetic derm motivation to it as a whole, still definitely a really unique and intriguing EC to mention!
 
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Yeah leave it off the CV. Too many academic dermatologists are turned off by so many dermatology residency grads going into cosmetics. And its true, medical dermatology is taking a backseat. Dermatology is already so hard to get into why give anyone any ammo for trashing your application?
 
Chipping in again to post an excerpt from an interview from someone who recently matched at a top 3, highly coveted derm program (this is publicly available so not going to change details but very easy to verify with googling):

What were some of your involvements in college? Have those involvements helped you in any way in medical school?

I started competing in pageants/scholarship programs as a senior in high school, because to be honest I was so sick of just writing essays to earn money to pay for my education (coming from a single-parent household, I knew that all of the responsibility surrounding financing my education would fall to me). When I found the Distinguished Young Women of America (formerly America’s Junior Miss) program in a Princeton Review Scholarship Guide, I knew that I had to give it a shot!

Going into my first competition I had minimal expectations, yet somehow, I managed to win my state title and earn the opportunity to represent the state of Florida at the National Finals in Mobile, Alabama. Although I didn’t win (or even place at the national competition), I still had a phenomenal year left ahead of me serving the state of Florida.

Through pageantry/ scholarship competitions, not only did I have the opportunity to earn money towards my education, but I also got to perform my talent (I’m a dancer – lyrical is my choice style), serve as a goodwill ambassador to the community, and take on mentorship roles. I was hooked! And when I got to college, I continued to compete in the Miss America system (Miss University of Miami 2011, Miss Coral Gables 2014, Miss Pasco County Fair 2015, Miss Winter Park 2016) and eventually placed 2nd runner-up to the title of Miss Florida 2016 and won the title of Miss National Sweetheart 2016.

As a titleholder, I also launched my community service organization entitled Apples 4 Education through which I have donated almost $12,000 worth of supplies, graduation regalia, prom gowns, and backpacks to students at Title I Schools throughout the states of Florida and Pennsylvania. As a medical student, I co-founded Snacks for STEM to provide snacks, along with exposure to the field of medicine, to students whose families struggle with food insecurity.

I’m aware that many stereotypes/misconceptions exist in regards to pageantry and the young women who choose to compete in the many systems that exist. However, pageants are so much more than sparkly dresses, heels, and swimsuits – in fact, what I think I value the most from my time in pageantry (aside from the sisterhood I joined and the relationships I formed) is the “art of the interview.” What most don’t realize about pageantry is that at least 25% of our cumulative score comes from the “personal interview” portion of the pageant in which we are tasked with convincing a panel of 5 or more judges to give us a job for a year. Oh, did I also mention that we have 10 minutes or less to cinch the deal?

These skills have certainly helped me with throughout my career as a medical student and I’m sure they’ll carry through into my career as a dermatologist as well.

Aside from pageantry, I was also a President’s 100 Tour Guide and a College of Arts & Sciences Dean’s Student Ambassador. I spent a semester studying abroad in Rome, Italy through the Department of Religious Studies and also spent time in Ecuador on a global health brigade.

I'm just saying people in this thread are making a lot of assumptions and it is absolutely a good hook! Pageantry absolutely =/= interest in cosmetics only, just make sure those other interests are more highlighted in your app.
 
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