Palo Alto University

Discussion in 'Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]' started by frontbluntt101, Jan 29, 2013.

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  1. Jamesx156

    Jamesx156 Account on Hold Account on Hold

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    Actually the PhD program had a perfect match rate this past year for APA internship acceptances, so where are you getting this data from?
     
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  3. Jamesx156

    Jamesx156 Account on Hold Account on Hold

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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  4. Jamesx156

    Jamesx156 Account on Hold Account on Hold

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  5. Jamesx156

    Jamesx156 Account on Hold Account on Hold

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    Unfortunately, your post had absolutely nothing to do with what I just said.
     
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  6. PSYDR

    PSYDR Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    I thought that most people would understand that I was pointing out that several arguments you were suing would be considered to be either insulting or de facto evidence that you lost a debate when I suggested that using the term "girl" when referring to adult women was derogatory , using anecdotes when confronted with group stats was not how science works, and that using an appeal to authority is a formal error of logic.

    Sorry if I didn't communicate that in a manner you understood.
     
  7. Jamesx156

    Jamesx156 Account on Hold Account on Hold

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    I understood what you had said I just think that instead of focusing on the minute details of my post, you can contribute something more substantial to the conversation- rather than going off on a tangent about something rather insignificant such as a variation of nouns, which you perceived to be politically incorrect.

    A little sensitive I see.

    Also, you should stop creating multiple accounts on this forum and liking your own posts, it's kind of humorous and at the same time, pathetic
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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  8. erg923

    erg923 Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    This is all anecdotal and speculative evidence, filled with error and common biases and flaws in reasoning and logic.

    And "I would bet my money she is smarter and has a higher IQ than the rest of you in these posts." What are you, 8? lol

    What point are you making? That your life experience is more important and powerful than modal outcome data? That you can't put a price on "quality?" Some other naive and nonsensical notion?

    About 90% of ph.d programs in clinical psychology in non professional schools offer a remission (full or partial) and annual stipend according to latest APA survey article. Where are you getting your data from? Speculation again?

    Again, beyond being just plain wrong, are you seriously suggesting people resign themselves to over priced degree programs because "that's student loans in America"?!
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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  9. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist 7+ Year Member

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    Whoah, did someone in the recruiting dept at Palo Alto just sign up? Are you guys having trouble finding suckers who are willing to pay 200k+ in loans to you when they could get into a fully funded program elsewhere?
     
  10. foreverbull

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    @Jamesx156 These threads are old. Of course you have a right to defend your opinion, just not sure that the specific people you initially responded to about the program are still here to read your posts.

    I'm sure for some people, they sought out this program and felt like it would be the best fit. And yes, it is an expensive program, with an increasingly high match rate (97% at APA-accredited sites for the latest year) and some people would probably argue that the courses and training are great. Some (seemingly those not involved with the program) would argue that the cost is too high for the return. Obviously people feel strongly on both sides and no one is going to change his/her views.

    I suggest that we stop patronizing others who hold different opinions. This goes for everyone; both sides have engaged in it. Let's move on.
     
  11. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist 7+ Year Member

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    But, patronization is the lifeblood of SDN. We're addicted to it.
     
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  12. foreverbull

    foreverbull

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    And it drives me nuts! :boom:
     
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  13. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist 7+ Year Member

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    Meh, it's sustaining. Conflict is necessary for progress.
     
  14. Jamesx156

    Jamesx156 Account on Hold Account on Hold

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    erg923 and PSYD are the same person on different accounts commenting on this forum.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  15. Jamesx156

    Jamesx156 Account on Hold Account on Hold

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    "PSYDR" and "erg923" are the same person on multiple accounts. @erg923", show me the data you ass
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  16. Jamesx156

    Jamesx156 Account on Hold Account on Hold

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    Thank you for taking multiple viewpoints into account, you seem to be the only person with some sense. The same person is spewing garbage on multiple accounts on this forum. Sad.
     
  17. Jamesx156

    Jamesx156 Account on Hold Account on Hold

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    @erg923, what are you even talking about? Palo Alto is no longer a professional school, it's a University now. You are trying to attach this stigma onto the school that is completely unwarranted and you just sound like an idiot. Nova South Eastern also used to be a professional school back in the 80's. You're spewing garbage and lies on these sites.
     
  18. psych.meout

    psych.meout

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    I don't know what's funnier, the obtuse reliance upon fallacious arguments (e.g. "my uncle totally worked at Nintendo and my dad could beat up your dad" level anecdotes) or the paranoia that somehow one person has multiple sockpuppet accounts on a tiny internet forum instead of just multiple people disagreeing with you.
     
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  19. Jamesx156

    Jamesx156 Account on Hold Account on Hold

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    Multiple people haha, as in you on a few other accounts this thing. These are your other accounts @erg923 and @PSYDR

    Interesting... how else do you expect one to convey an argument without going off of personal experience and factual evidence. Paranoid? You are going from one account to the next, using the same words and liking your own posts, which is quite humorous.

    It's you and you alone who is 'arguing with me', you have been using multiple accounts all night
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  20. LiteratureJunkie

    LiteratureJunkie Probationary Status

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    Not trying to insert myself into this grueling debate, however, a 97% internship acceptance rate is impressive
     
  21. LiteratureJunkie

    LiteratureJunkie Probationary Status

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    Your sarcasm is very unnecessary for a forum like this, this is a professional site, I would hope that we show compassion and respect for one another. After all, we are in the field of Psychology. I've worked with many of the PAU students and they were nothing but intelligent, diligent and talented clinicians
     
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  22. LiteratureJunkie

    LiteratureJunkie Probationary Status

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    Eh, I think all parties involved are a tad condescending. I will say that in my years of being in the field of Clinical psychology, I personally have seen great things come from the Ph.D. students at Palo Alto University, I work in a nearby hospital
     
  23. erg923

    erg923 Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    Even if this were true, does it diminish the points each poster made?

    All posts seemed to pick up upon your flawed reasoning and logic, and this bizarre attempt to focus on it not being a "professional school" when the program website clearly states the opposite. And Its not like anyone actually thinks "Argosy University" isn't a professional school, so what the difference, really?

    And the name calling and IQ insults? Whats that about?
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  24. erg923

    erg923 Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    It is. And no one has said it wasnt.
     
  25. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist 7+ Year Member

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    No. They aren't.
     
  26. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist 7+ Year Member

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    Some of us think that rancor is quite necessary when faced with facets that are bad for the field (i.e., programs that put someone 200k+ in debt with a median outcome that in no way matches the debt load).
     
  27. erg923

    erg923 Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    I do sometimes wonder if that 40 something, high rollin, private practice bachelor would like to trade places with the guy with a corporate salary and 3 kids under 5.
     
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  28. PSYDR

    PSYDR Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    Erg and I are the same person?!

    I disagree.

    1) If you are referring to the ethical code, that is an aspirational goal not an enacted one. Respect, by definition, demands a sense of admiration. No one owes anyone a sense of admiration without any effort on the others part.

    2) I've thought and read a lot about how I interact with people on here. Science requires a specific method. So does logical debate. The cbt literature is replete with evidence that logical thinking has a positive effect on ones emotional state. The psychoanalysitic literature indicates that a healthy person's response to a narcissistic injury is to improve and close the gap between the ideal self and ones behaviors. When someone comes on here and puts forward an argument based upon "you're stupid", I am genuinely concerned both for them, how such behavior makes the field look, and what the hell this type of inability to handle argument would do to a patient. So I point that out.
     
  29. foreverbull

    foreverbull

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    Fair enough, and to point 2, of course when someone in here starts mudslinging directly, it's fair to be called out. But sometimes, "you're stupid" is expressed indirectly by people in here without mudslinging to provoke it. For example, someone asks a benign question about a particular program or school and some of the responses are something like "no one in their right mind would pick X program because of Y," which essentially conveys the same thing to those who disagree, just one step less direct than "you're stupid." Point being, why not just say "I wouldn't personally choose this program because of Y fact or my experience Z." A point is still made without insulting those who disagree, and is thus even more effectively expressed because it is expressed without patronizing those with a different opinion. It also further encourages open discussion rather than looking like you're trying to shut people down. That's what drives me nuts about debates in here sometimes!
     
  30. PsychPhDStudent

    PsychPhDStudent 7+ Year Member

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    I have also been accused of being you two. It is a pleasure and an honor.
     
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  31. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    :laugh:

    They are indeed different people...though I'd love to see an SDN House like MTV Real World...
     
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  32. PSYDR

    PSYDR Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    I noticed that you were also accused of time traveling back 7 years to create your account for the sole purpose of arguing with that guy.
     
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  33. LiteratureJunkie

    LiteratureJunkie Probationary Status

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    I don't believe that Argosy and PAU are at all comparable. Argosy has a huge stigma attached to it (not at all respected), whereas PAU is respected, seems to have pretty high internship acceptance rates and faculty/advisors who are big shots at Stanford. Many of them conduct research through their labs

    Why would an ivy league school want to collaborate with a school which had such a bad reputation attached to its name? that doesn't sound logical, however everybody has a right to their own opinions and everybody should be open minded
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  34. erg923

    erg923 Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    Why is Stanford somehow deemed infallible? Prestigious institutions and people do dumb **** all the time.

    Beyond this, why is their motivation for business partnerships (cause that's what it is) relevant to this discussion?
     
  35. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    When did Stanford join the Ivy League?

    [​IMG]
     
  36. LiteratureJunkie

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    Ivy Leauge of the Western coast, there is no reason to take out your aggression on me, I'm not taking sides in this debate. Stanford often ranks higher than most ivys, so I guess in a sense you're right, it's not an ivy league school, in many cases it's better.

    Let's just all be kind and professional to one another please. There is no ill will here
     
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  37. LiteratureJunkie

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    @PSYDR @erg923 Just for informational purposes, to branch off about what you stated in regards to your opinion on the supposed stupidity of Stanford's participation in the study of remote viewing (aka the "dumb ****" you mentioned above)- Stanford, Harvard, Princeton, Cornell, Duke, University of Virginia, UCLA, The University of Edinburg, The University of Amsterdam, and The University of Arizona to name a few of the prestigious universities- were also among those institutions to run scientific studies on remote viewing. This had nothing to do with financial endeavors, more to do with research. Remote viewing is actually considered a scientific study, even some of the brightest in the field of psychology & science conduct studies on this research topic. Sure it is an enormous challenge, if not impossible to apply the scientific method to, however, if we just assumed everything was impossible, would we have ever gotten to the moon? How is society supposed to scientifically advance itself if we gave up and said a certain field of study (X) was impossible to explore, we really don't know exactly how the universe works

    Back to your allegation that Standford teamed up with PAU for 'business', you are implying that it is a partnership motivated by financial means as opposed to a partnership for other reasons such as shared faculty or a respect for the school. Which is sort of a biased opinion, considering Stanford has enough of its own wealth/funds. Let's say for arguments sake, if in some foreign universe, Stanford experienced some type of financial drought, it could have just partnered up with another university in the surrounding area, such as Berkley for example), however, whether other's opinions are correct or whether your own opinions and viewpoints are correct, we should still show respect and be kind on this forum

    I always respect other's opinions on this site, I respect your opinions and I would hope that you would show me that same respect.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  38. PSYDR

    PSYDR Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    Stanford is not an Ivy. It's not even a seven sisters.

    While an excellent school, there is a history of the institution putting its name on less than reputable endeavors. I would encourage anyone to read about the Stanford Research Institute and its remote viewing nonsense.
     
  39. erg923

    erg923 Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    Dude...
     
  40. PSYDR

    PSYDR Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    Pointing out you are incorrect is not aggression.
     
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  41. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    It's not aggression; I was responding to a statement that was not correct.
     
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  42. erg923

    erg923 Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    This is make believe.
     
  43. foreverbull

    foreverbull

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    Is it? Among students I knew in the Midwest and on the West Coast, Stanford has a prestigious reputation. Growing up, I considered it Ivy League, if not officially. A friend of mine who wanted to go into a top school applied to Stanford for undergrad, among others like Harvard. So it seems to depend on who you talk to...
     
  44. PSYDR

    PSYDR Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    The Ivy League is 8 schools. Whether you or anyone else considers it be to otherwise does not affect the category.
     
  45. foreverbull

    foreverbull

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    Hence why I said "if not officially," since some people also use the term more generally to describe a prestigious school, not just to describe the 8 "official" schools.
     
  46. PSYDR

    PSYDR Psychologist 10+ Year Member

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    the league is an official category. Using it otherwise is incorrect and shows that the speaker doesn't know what the term means.

    There's no debate to this. The Ivy League is defined.
     
  47. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    :laugh:

    This horse...uhm....tree....has sufficiently been beaten.

    Without looking, anyone know the PAU mascot?
     
  48. foreverbull

    foreverbull

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    I'm not disagreeing that the Ivy League of 8 schools is defined, but where I grew up, it was also used colloquially as an adjective to refer to any prestigious school as shorthand to communicate that a school is one of the top in the country. Maybe you didn't grow up with that same colloquial use, but it exists, and it made me wonder if Literaturejunkie also meant the colloquial definition.
     
  49. Neuro727

    Neuro727

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    Guineafowl right? They gave us a stress ball version of one on interview. PAU had easily the most impressive gift bag of any school I interviewed at, so clearly the tuition money is going to good places. Jokes aside, I interviewed at for their PhD program as well as other PhD and PsyD programs at more traditional universities, so I can provide some perspective. I do want to point out that the PsyD Stanford Consortium is distinctly separate from the PhD program, so I can't speak to that.

    I'll start with the positives. I genuinely think if you're one of the top students in the program you can get great training there. PAU has very close ties to the Palo Alto VA and the Kaiser hospitals. There is also an in-house clinic, but most programs have those. The school recently hired a new president and right around then is when their match rate started shooting up. I remember one commentator on here mentioning they artificially inflate their internship match stats by only allowing competitive applicants to apply, but I'm not sure how true that is. Also, the faculty size at the school is huge, so there very likely is a good research fit for anyone. I'm aware most neuropsychology tracks are just marketing, but the PAU neuropsychology track was one of the more comprehensive ones I've seen. Lastly, the bay area is pretty beautiful and if you're rich it makes a great place to live.

    Now as far as negatives go the most obvious one (for good reason) is the tuition. I met a lot of people there who were taking out around 300k in loans. That is so terrifying I don't even know where to begin. The school also seems to provide very little in the way of funding. They have a couple small fellowships, but I didn't get one and every other school I got into gave me some level of funding in comparison. On top of the tuition, the cost of living in the area is off the charts too. One student told me if you find 2 other roommates you can all split an apartment for $1500 a month each (not counting utilities). While I didn't get the vibe from students that the program is competitive or cutthroat it's definitely structured to breed that type of behavior. At the end of your second year there's an intra-program match process for labs. Each lab takes 1-3 students and you are directly competing with your peers for those spots. From talking with students it definitely seemed like there was a hierarchy of labs and a lot hinged on matching with a good one. You are guaranteed to match with a lab though, it just might not be the one you want. If you're interesting in neuropsychology you have to apply to the track in your second year as well. The requirements to apply to the track seem unnecessarily strict too. The school's philosophy seems to be to let in as many people that may be qualified and weed them out the first two years. Several faculty and students warned us about how difficult the program is in the beginning, which explains some of the attrition. All schools are trying to sell you on interview, but PAU really tried to sell me on interview. They put everyone up in a really nice hotel, gave us gift bags, open bar and catered food at the meet and greet. It was my first interview, so it was a little disappointing to find out you don't get spoiled like that on other interviews haha. I was not 100% clear on this, but it seemed like your first year classes were taught by upper level PAU students. The undergrad psych degrees offered by PAU are just a handful of classes that students from the local community colleges take. There isn't an actual undergrad student body or anything. The campus is also extremely tiny, and really more of just a building than a campus.

    I don't think PAU provides bad training, but it does add more unnecessary hurdles. If you are fortunate enough to have the means to afford the school without taking out loans and you're trying to start grad school as soon as possible then it may be worth a look. I do think that the top students at PAU would succeed anywhere though. I saw someone on this forum once say that you should succeed with the help of your grad program, and not in spite of it.
     
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  50. LiteratureJunkie

    LiteratureJunkie Probationary Status

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    This response is to: @PSYDR :

    Either way who cares? You take this site too seriously

    I'm calling a ceasefire, please let's be respectful to one another
     
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  51. LiteratureJunkie

    LiteratureJunkie Probationary Status

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    You're basing your side of the argument on your own interpretation and perception.

    I'm calling a truce, I am not the one you are fighting against

    You should let it go, everybody is going to have different opinions, that is a major part of life. Whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant

    There is freedom of speech in America, thank goodness, we still have that right.

    I shared my own opinion about the graduates from that program. In my own opinion and experience, they were intelligent and rather good clinicians. I work in a rather prestigious hospital in the Bay Area, so I figured I would speak on their behalf. I didn't think the comments by some were fair or reflective of what I have seen. I felt that there was bias, so I figured I would share my own experiences in working with them.

    You should respect other's freedom of speech and drop the elitist attitude. Anybody can act elitist, but it's those with class and admiration who are humble and open to new ideas and interpretations. Barack Obama and his family are a great example. The perfect mix of class, humility, grace, and intelligence. Let's try and practice compassion when speaking to one another, whether it be online or in the field of Psychology. In a time of great unpredictability and turbulence- the world is filled with enough hatred and discrimination, people should not have to endure such treatment on the internet as well.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017

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