Paramedic school as a premed?

[ambulancedriver]

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Anybody have any thoughts on doing paramedic school as a pre-med and as an undergraduate? Usually you can get certified as an EMT taking weekend classes, but paramedic school seems to be a full credit load and for those really looking for a career.

I am too attracted to the lights and sirens to not want to do ALS before medical school. Please share your thoughts if you or anyone you know has done it.

What was the schedule like? How tough was it time-wise? etc. etc.... All contributions are welcome.

 

[paramed2premed]

Foo -
I'm a paramedic and premed. Probably couldn't tell from my name. 😛

How crazy this plan is depends on your state requirements for length of paramedic training. My program ran to over 1200 hours. Programs in, say, Maine require much less time, less than half.

I only worked part-time during medic school, no other classes, and it was still tough. It isn't just a body of knowledge to memorize, but also involves manual and cognitive training. Just because you got an A+ in O Chem doesn't really predict your talent at organizing a resuscitation, evaluating a SOB, or even starting an IV! My medic class had more than a few college graduates, and we sweated just as much as the rest of the GED crowd.

Don't get me wrong, you sound motivated in all the right ways. I love being a medic, and I believe it is the perfect prelude to a medical career. If you were committed to spending a few years post-college working on a truck, perhaps then your plan might seem more worthwhile. If you plan to go the med school right from college, though, you should carefully the cost/benefit ratio; you might not get much of a chance to actually use your ALS skills.

Good luck!

 

[streetdoc]

umairfoo,
i'm a paramedic that did the whole ems thing after graduating college. i just started out in the basic class (2 evenings a week for like 9-10 weeks that culminates in a day long test of written and "practical" skills) to see if i could handle dealing with sick people and blood. after that, i worked full time and felt sooo bad as a Basic that i had to do the paramedic thing.
My class (which started BEFORE the NEW requirements) lasted 9 months of having class from 8 A to 6 P 2 days a week. this did not included the required 350 hrs (i think) of "clinical" time that was spent in hospitals and on trucks. there was a night class offered that was 3 nights a week and all day saturday.
now there are new reguirements set by national registry and most classes last 12 months (at least!)
it was really hard to work full time (24 hr shifts) and go to class and do clinicals and study for the tests in the class. the material is not hard. there were only 2 of us in there with a BS and the biggest help is that we already knew how to study and we were young. the other people were old and not the academic type and had some troubles. both of us are now in MD school.
anyway, i waited 2 years to apply to school, and i feel that my experiences that i had in EMS and especially as a paramedic (basics don't really do any decision making) gave me a leg up in the process. i'd say take a year or so and do it...it's always a good back up idea if you don't get in the first time around.
best of luck,
streetdoc

 

[paramed2premed]

Originally posted by streetdoc

My class (which started BEFORE the NEW requirements) lasted 9 months of having class from 8 A to 6 P 2 days a week. this did not included the required 350 hrs (i think) of "clinical" time that was spent in hospitals and on trucks.
... i feel that my experiences that i had in EMS and especially as a paramedic (basics don't really do any decision making) gave me a leg up in the process. streetdoc

Oh, MAN! I spent 300 hours alone riding on a truck! Clinical time was something like 600 hours. Urgh.

I like what you said about the difference between B's and P's. Too often people minimize the difference; e.g. "paramedics can give drugs, Basics can't." It is the judgement about how to use any of our skills that distinguishes paramedics; it requires a different mindset, not just more advanced, than the basic's. I feel somewhat frustrated at interviews, not knowing quite how to relate this without coming off as an arrogant wannabe-doc.

 

[ambulancedriver]

Originally posted by paramed2premed

I like what you said about the difference between B's and P's. Too often people minimize the difference; e.g. "paramedics can give drugs, Basics can't." It is the judgement about how to use any of our skills that distinguishes paramedics; it requires a different mindset, not just more advanced, than the basic's. I feel somewhat frustrated at interviews, not knowing quite how to relate this without coming off as an arrogant wannabe-doc.

paramed, I totally agree. Any honest emt-b will admit that there isn't a whole lot we can do for the patient besides keep them alive should they crap out on us and perhaps take a good history/physical exam along the way.

the public really does not know a whole lot about EMS. sometimes they call us EMTs paramedics, making us feel a little guilty when we don't bother to explain for the thousandth time that we're not. On the flip side of things, to some we are merely "amb-U-lance drivers".

 

[PluckyDuk8]

Hey my EMS buddies...

Well as long as you started the conversation...I like your difference between the EMT B's and P's, but I just wanted to add that I highly dislike it when EMT-P's think EMT-B's know nothing- this is just a respect thing that sometimes gets lost. You hopefully get pretty good at assessment though- we once got called at a nursing home for "not eating and drinking" and found him unresponsive to pain. You never know what you are going to get.

One more side story...I recently was on a short plane trip and right before takeoff they asked over the intercom if there were any doctors or nurses because a passenger had a medical emergency. It ends up the only person with anything remotely medical was me the lowly EMT-B. Lucky it wasn't a heart attack like the flight attendants first said it was over the intercom because I wouldn't have been able to do a thing other than assessment and CPR...made me a bit sick to my stomach. The guy was fine, they didn't need me, and the attendants said it was something like low blood sugar.

And btw, I like your amb-U-lance thing...how annoying!

 

[deleted6669]

I went to pramedic school right after college. 5 months of classroom, then 3 months of hospital rotations , then 6 months on an ALS unit. it was a great experience and I recommend it highly to anyone who has the time to devote to the endeavor. it prepared me very well for p.a. school( I worked as a medic for 5 years before pa school) and I'm sure it will be very helpful as a medstudent as well.

 

[southerndoc]

Originally posted by umairfoo
I am too attracted to the lights and sirens to not want to do ALS before medical school. Please share your thoughts if you or anyone you know has done it.

Yep, you're an EMS junkie!

I'm right there with ya though. I love the lights and sirens, the adrenaline rushes of intubating in a floor, pulling people out of tangled cars, etc. I had to stop working during my third year because of time demands of school (100-120 hours/week in the hospital). Fourth year is only a few weeks away, and I've already got an application to start work on the trucks here. Yippee. Can't wait to return.

EMS can be a great thing for you. Take the opportunity to look up every condition you come across, learn everything there is to know about the drugs that your patients are taking, etc. When you get into medical school, it'll make your life easier.

Good luck!

 

[paramed2premed]

Originally posted by PluckyDuk8
...I like your difference between the EMT B's and P's, but I just wanted to add that I highly dislike it when EMT-P's think EMT-B's know nothing- this is just a respect thing that sometimes gets lost.

Word up. Gotta respect the Basic; she just might save your medic hide some day!

It is NOT that Basics "know nothing." Some do, and some don't. It is about How they know what they do. The EMT-B curriculum, by necessity, is more of a catechism than an education. You just can't train people in the finer skills of medical judgement in 200 hours!

By the way, the Basic CAN do quite a bit. The most important skills, those involving the airway (suction, OPA's, BVM) are all in the basic's purview. I hate that "basics can't do anything" talk, because they start to believe it!

 

[Sweet Tea]

Originally posted by paramed2premed


By the way, the Basic CAN do quite a bit. The most important skills, those involving the airway (suction, OPA's, BVM) are all in the basic's purview. I hate that "basics can't do anything" talk, because they start to believe it!

seriously...this attitude drives me crazy. i've been a basic for 3 years (between college and my research job i didn't have time to take the paramedic classes), and i really do think that the basic position is what you make of it. if you're the type of person who will jump into a scene, figure out what needs to be done and do it (correctly) as opposed to sitting there with your thumb up your butt waiting for the medic to tell you to take a blood pressure, you're going to get much more out of the EMT-B experience. it's all about taking inititative and doing the best you can with the training you have.

conversely, it also drives me crazy when our medics refuse to handle a stretcher b/c it is beneath them and their training. wtf?? i'm sorry, but my teeny-tiny partner and i CAN NOT pick up the 50-pound stretcher that is holding the 275-pound patient. we're strong buff girls, but we ain't that strong!! get over yourself and grab a corner of the stretcher.😡 (okay sorry, that wasn't on topic and i'll stop ranting now 😉)

 

[ambulancedriver]

I just want to clear up that the "EMTs can't do anything" is definetely not the attitude I take. Notice that in my earlier post that I said:

there isn't a whole lot we can do for the patient besides keep them alive should they crap out on us and perhaps take a good history/physical exam along the way

it may have come out wrong. well, keeping them alive is PRETTY important and I don't downplay our role for one second. also gleaning vital information from patient and family/nursing home alike is extremely important for the ER as well.

don't get me wrong. I don't regret for one second being an EMT as opposed to working a cash register or as a pharmacy tech as all my other friends are doing. Where else do you get to meet so many different types of people, see so many different aspects of the city, and observe different conditions of the human body.

It may sound like I am defending myself, but rather am just clearing something up. I wear the patch with (inner) pride.

 

[PluckyDuk8]

Don't worry umfairoo, I didn't take offense and I didn't misunderstand you, but I was just adding my 2 cents in. I just had some bad experiences with a few EMT-P's in my company...most are great and know who me and my partner are and they know very well what we are capable and what we understand. If you want to know the story, you can pm me. I will spare eveyone here.

I love my job, and although I have gotten paid crap this year between undergrad and med school I am very happy I did it (sorry I'm going to get sappy, I'm ending work in 2.5 weeks). I have learned the area in and around Chicago inside and out and it's EMS system quite well (although mostly on the private side), learned about and seen some interesting medical stuff (by looking up conditions and meds I don't know) learned how to communicate efficiently with my partner and with patients, learned the difference in sight between "looks like crap" , "ok," and "why isn't he going by medicar?", worked as a team, met all types, sizes and races of people...It's opened my eyes to so much coming from a "sheltered" undergrad and a one-religion private high school and I am so happy I got to do this before going to medical school. I have also worked public in a foreign country where there are not so-pretty- things going on right now and seen amazing and compassionate EMS workers at their best during the worst of times.

Ok, sorry for my winded train of thought. On a side note, please email the powers that be to try to get an EMT forum to ourselves. I did so a long time ago and never got a response. If more people do it it may become a reality.

 

[Sweet Tea]

oh i hope no one thought i was attacking them in my post...i was just venting about some of the people i work with. i'm sure y'all are great-- and i'm proud to be an emt, too!! adrenaline junkies unite!!

 

[paramed2premed]

Originally posted by Sweet Tea
... i really do think that the basic position is what you make of it. if you're the type of person who will jump into a scene, figure out what needs to be done and do it (correctly) as opposed to sitting there with your thumb up your butt waiting for the medic to tell you to take a blood pressure, you're going to get much more out of the EMT-B experience. it's all about taking inititative and doing the best you can with the training you have.

conversely, it also drives me crazy when our medics refuse to handle a stretcher b/c it is beneath them and their training. wtf?? ...

I work as a 911-only medic, but during our down=time we work in the ED. It is hard to feel too haughty as a medic when I just finished wiping butts!

It is good to stay humble. We're all working in the gutters, it's just that some of us want to get published in Ann. of Gutt.

 

[princessd3]

hey, what's wrong with being a pharmacy technician?

 

[ambulancedriver]

hey, what's wrong with being a pharmacy technician?

nothing is wrong with being a pharmacy tech. i was one for a while. I just like the unique experience that being an EMT offers, especially if you have lived a "sheltered" life as plucky mentioned. it opens your eyes to a lot of things. no offense meant though.

 

[trauma_junky]

Thought I should join my EMS brothers and sisters! I worked as an In-charge for one of the nations most aggessice EMS, Montogomery County Hospital District EMS. We did 12-leads with Retavase reperfussions of AMI's, RSI using Amidate and Succinylcholine, pericardiocentesis for PEA/Asystolic blunt chest trauma (COOL #$%*) and a host of other things that pissed nurses off. LOL I have more experience in medicine than some of my MS4 friends and I'm not in medical school yet. Becoming a paramedic may make your route to medical school longer but will only make you sharper. 😎

 

[paramed2premed]

T_J -

Right on!
The reason I would prefer becoming a doctor instead of a PA is that I can do so much right now, RSI now, fibrinolysis soon, wide-open protocols (off-line morphine and fentanyl!). In many ways, we have far more training, experience, and resonsibility in caring for the emergent patient than do any of the PA's I work with. I don't want to take a "step back."

Of course, if any PA's out there feel that their position in EM is pretty cool, I want to hear about it!