Paraplegia case on video

[Boatswain2PA]

Watch about minute 7:20 when the cop pushes down on his neck while on the ED bed.

I support cops.

I trust cops about as much as I trust meth heads and virginal 35 year old women with abdominal pain.

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[AlmostAnMD]

Didn't watch the whole thing but it looked like someone was just pressing from behind to lean him forward??? That's what you're referring to? Can't imagine that would paralyze someone, but I'm missing a lot of context here like if there was already trauma/etc.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Had already been taken down twice before that. After 2nd takedown he was saying he needed help, couldn't feel/move his legs, and having difficulty talking.

Doc nice-talked the cops, and he did a good enough exam to see poor reflexes and scanned the spine.

Note the nurse who blew off the pts complaint that he couldn't move his legs.

Looks like cop pushing him forward in bed, using his head, appears to hyperflex the neck.

$120 Million award against the city.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Had already been taken down twice before that. After 2nd takedown he was saying he needed help, couldn't feel/move his legs, and having difficulty talking.

Doc nice-talked the cops, and he did a good enough exam to see poor reflexes and scanned the spine.

Note the nurse who blew off the pts complaint that he couldn't move his legs.

Looks like cop pushing him forward in bed, using his head, appears to hyperflex the neck.

$120 Million award against the city.

Payout was $20M. Not $120M.

 

[emergentmd]

Cops, because of body cams, have become similar to docs. It is starting to be more about outcome.

I don't understand how you can be a cop now a days. I am not talking about this specific case, but if I am dealing with a violent person esp on drugs, I am using max force to subdue them and protect myself/others which in the process sometimes they will be injured/die.

If cops use pillow hands with violent suspects, they eventually be injured and possibly dead.

Atleast docs when docs make a perceived mistake, they get sued and move on. If cops do, they could die. No thank you.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Payout was $20M. Not $120M.

I stand corrected, I thought the video said ONE-twenty.

California man paralyzed from run-in with police gets $20 million settlement

A California man who became paralyzed after a run-in with police is getting a $20 million settlement in a deal announced Tuesday.

apnews.com

 

[EMhawkeye]

This was a little sphincter tightening given how jail clearances can be minimized and dismissed.

 

[Rendar5]

Cops, because of body cams, have become similar to docs. It is starting to be more about outcome.

I don't understand how you can be a cop now a days. I am not talking about this specific case, but if I am dealing with a violent person esp on drugs, I am using max force to subdue them and protect myself/others which in the process sometimes they will be injured/die.

If cops use pillow hands with violent suspects, they eventually be injured and possibly dead.

Atleast docs when docs make a perceived mistake, they get sued and move on. If cops do, they could die. No thank you.

That’s fine and all but part of the issue is some of them using max force on nonviolent people. Or not being able to perceive the difference between when to use max force and when not to. I give officers a lot of leeway but some of them take it too far when not necessary. a lot of the cases making the news about injuries at the hands of cops do not involve violent suspects. If the suspect were violent it wouldn’t be news. It would just be cops taking care of violent suspect.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

That’s fine and all but part of the issue is some of them using max force on nonviolent people. Or not being able to perceive the difference between when to use max force and when not to. I give officers a lot of leeway but some of them take it too far when not necessary. a lot of the cases making the news about injuries at the hands of cops do not involve violent suspects. If the suspect were violent it wouldn’t be news. It would just be cops taking care of violent suspect.

Wait Wait Wait let me grab my popcorn

 

[thegenius]

Wait Wait Wait let me grab my popcorn

I’m going to use the loo before watching this movie too…as I suspect it will be uninterrupted, action packed for 3+ hours.

 

[Rendar5]

Saying something isnt black and white doesn’t mean I’m here to stir up some ****. Most of the time I support police. Cases of inappropriate and excessive force are thankfully usually the exception with police interactions. I’ve witnessed tons of police interactions with patients and family in my hospital. I’ve only seen one inappropriate threat of force in 8 years here.

The only point i was trying to make is that we shouldn’t be dismissive of individual cases even if broadly we should support people doing what they need to do to carry out their job. I don’t actually disagree with the premise of using aggressive force on violent or potentially violent people.

 

[emergentmd]

I am not saying anything about this particular case but MOST MOST people who criticize police would never do their job b/c it has become nearly impossible.

I would not be a cop if they doubled my pay.

Again, docs make 5x what cops make and when we screw up pts may die but we continue to work and live

Cops when they screw up or suspect goes crazy, they get paraded all over the news/tried for murder or even worse get killed.

I have been in the ER enough with violent drunks/psych pts. I rarely even touch these pts b/c the risk for injury is too high. These cops can't do that.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I am not saying anything about this particular case but MOST MOST people who criticize police would never do their job b/c it has become nearly impossible.

I would not be a cop if they doubled my pay.

Again, docs make 5x what cops make and when we screw up pts may die but we continue to work and live

Cops when they screw up or suspect goes crazy, they get paraded all over the news/tried for murder or even worse get killed.

I have been in the ER enough with violent drunks/psych pts. I rarely even touch these pts b/c the risk for injury is too high. These cops can't do that.

I know someone who recently left the NYPD for a sweet cush gig with the MTA.

Why patrol the south Bronx and have a target on your back when you can chill at a train station for way better benefits?

 

[carbonizedeyesockets]

I am not saying anything about this particular case but MOST MOST people who criticize police would never do their job b/c it has become nearly impossible.

I would not be a cop if they doubled my pay.

Again, docs make 5x what cops make and when we screw up pts may die but we continue to work and live

Cops when they screw up or suspect goes crazy, they get paraded all over the news/tried for murder or even worse get killed.

I have been in the ER enough with violent drunks/psych pts. I rarely even touch these pts b/c the risk for injury is too high. These cops can't do that.

Cops, in the grand scheme of things, do not get paraded all over the news when they screw up. It is very VERY rare for a cop to be charged with homicide stemming from use of force. Only a 104 charged between 2005 and 2019 (https://tinyurl.com/4278ysdh). That's <8 per year on average. The number of cops murdered is also fairly low. Their on-the-job fatality rate is not even top 25, and that is counting all causes (What are America’s most dangerous jobs? Search our database of deadliest occupations). Sure, it's tough and dangerous job, but you're overselling it.

FWIW, the security at my hospital make 1/3 to half that of a cop and handle "violent drunks/psych pts" just fine. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[sirspamalot]

Yup. We need to completely overhaul how we train supervise and discipline the police.

 

[bravotwozero]

Yup. We need to completely overhaul how we train supervise and discipline the police.

I think the pendulum has swung a bit too far in some places, resulting in police quitting in large numbers. Every profession should have some system of accountability - I think getting rid of the firewall of police unions would do the trick.

 

[carbonizedeyesockets]

I think the pendulum has swung a bit too far in some places, resulting in police quitting in large numbers. Every profession should have some system of accountability - I think getting rid of the firewall of police unions would do the trick.

I don't think the pendulum has swung too far at all. Most of it is that many (most?) cops seem to want to be able to do whatever they want to do without scrutiny or consequences. Many want to be able to get away with the stuff that they got away with decades ago (particularly before handheld recording devices). Most cops will only receive slaps on the wrist for things that would put any of us in jail. When there's a suit, they have no skin in the game; its the city that eats it. Even if fired, a majority later get their jobs back (Fired cops routinely rehired, from D.C. to California). Consequences meted out are typically just window dressing to appease the public.

 

[RustedFox]

Cops, in the grand scheme of things, do not get paraded all over the news when they screw up. It is very VERY rare for a cop to be charged with homicide stemming from use of force. Only a 104 charged between 2005 and 2019 (https://tinyurl.com/4278ysdh). That's <8 per year on average. The number of cops murdered is also fairly low. Their on-the-job fatality rate is not even top 25, and that is counting all causes (What are America’s most dangerous jobs? Search our database of deadliest occupations). Sure, it's tough and dangerous job, but you're overselling it.

FWIW, the security at my hospital make 1/3 to half that of a cop and handle "violent drunks/psych pts" just fine. 🤷🏻‍♂️

No shade being thrown, but didn't we just get done being confused and debunking a "ranking article" on here in another thread?

I'll take that "most dangerous jobs" list with a pinch of salt.

 

[carbonizedeyesockets]

No shade being thrown, but didn't we just get done being confused and debunking a "ranking article" on here in another thread?

I'll take that "most dangerous jobs" list with a pinch of salt.

I mean, you can always look at the Bureau of Labor Statistic if you wanted to go to the source. Eg. this. But fair enough. As long as you take any and all claims about law enforcement being "SO dangerous" with a similar pinch of salt.

 

[Birdstrike]

I mean, you can always look at the Bureau of Labor Statistic if you wanted to go to the source. Eg. this. But fair enough. As long as you take any and all claims about law enforcement being "SO dangerous" with a similar pinch of salt.

Those numbers can be deceiving. Some cops work in very low crime areas that are either high income or low population density. That doesn't make the job any less dangerous for police in Baltimore, Detroit, Memphis, St. Louis or other countless areas with high violent crime.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Those numbers can be deceiving. Some cops work in very low crime areas that are either high income or low population density. That doesn't make the job any less dangerous for police in Baltimore, Detroit, Memphis, St. Louis or other countless areas with high violent crime.

Well yeah, it's all about averages. By the same token, it would be a stretch for a cop in BFE or some rich, low crime town to claim that they're more likely to get killed on the job than a professional painter.

FWIW, both jobs are far more dangerous than anything I'd want to do. I barely like people enough to take care of them, let alone arrest them while under constant public scrutiny. I also don't care for ladders.

 

[DocEspana]

Those numbers can be deceiving. Some cops work in very low crime areas that are either high income or low population density. That doesn't make the job any less dangerous for police in Baltimore, Detroit, Memphis, St. Louis Bessemer, AL, East St. Louis, IL, Monroe, LA, (actual) St. Louis, MO or other countless areas with high violent crime.

Fixed that for you. Its bizarre where the actual most dangerous areas of the country are. Most lists we see are measured by the bizarre metric of how *expensive* crime is in an area, as if a murder is $100 grand of damage, a car jacking is $20k, etc. Just going off violent crimes/population ends up with a strange but accurate list with findings like a town named St Louis in a different state finishing above actual St Louis for most violent, and most of the violent areas of the country being the suburbs just outside of major cities.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Yup. We need to completely overhaul how we train supervise and discipline the police.

think the pendulum has swung a bit too far in some places, resulting in police quitting in large numbers.

The pendulum swung off it's base and crashed through the window.

Supervision and discipline come from standards. But unlike most professions, police standards come from training instead of training coming from standards. All too frequently a police office can get away with violating rights because they "did what they were trained to do", which then becomes the standard. And unfortunately, the training centers have changed their focus from "protect and serve" to "make sure you come home every night". To achieve this, police "training" and "standards" now allow for routine use of no-knock warrants for non-violent/non-drug arrest warrants, etc. THIS, along with breaking the "thin blue line" that protects bad cops, is what needed to be fixed. Body cameras and FOIA requests are doing wonders in exposing some horrendous police behavior, and thankfully judges are starting to chip away at qualified immunity standards.

But unfortunately most of the "overhaul" that has happened with departments has focused on just broadly attacking police and what they do for us. Hence....many of our inner cities get what they vote for (and country music singers get to write #1 songs about it).

We need to support police, but they need to be held to a HIGHER standard than the average "citizen". Not a lower one.