Part 2: What did you think today?

[sjdent]

Umm....I thought it was pretty tough. So many weird Q's. any thoughts?

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[UNCdentalguy]

Umm....I thought it was pretty tough. So many weird Q's. any thoughts?

Much agreed! Lots of randomness on there... I could have studied 25% as much and still known the same amount of material on the exam.

 

[paceman]

Too many behavioral science questions.

Some of the questions seemed too wordy. That really confused the hell out of me.

We'll see tommorrow.

 

[cuneatus2]

Much agreed! Lots of randomness on there... I could have studied 25% as much and still known the same amount of material on the exam.

What did you guys use to study?

 

[paceman]

What did you guys use to study?

Cards and old exams.

I'm not sure if they worked. alot of the questions were really random and subjective, especially the behavioral sciences one.

does anyone know how much of a curve they give?

 

[prechilill]

Much agreed! Lots of randomness on there... I could have studied 25% as much and still known the same amount of material on the exam.

Agreed! I was waiting for the nitty oral path and pharm questions to show up and they never did. Instead we had silly questions about 4 year olds whimpering in your chair. This test certainly was not what I thought it would be.

 

[prechilill]

Cards and old exams.

I'm not sure if they worked. alot of the questions were really random and subjective, especially the behavioral sciences one.

does anyone know how much of a curve they give?

I visited the ADA website yesterday and downloaded a PDF file discussing the delivery, scoring and grading of the NDBE exams and they had about 20 pages on the scoring and grading alone. I was a math major in college and am absolutely baffled with how the ADA grades and mathematically determines minimum passing scores. It is high level actuary math.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I visited the ADA website yesterday and downloaded a PDF file discussing the delivery, scoring and grading of the NDBE exams and they had about 20 pages on the scoring and grading alone. I was a math major in college and am absolutely baffled with how the ADA grades and mathematically determines minimum passing scores. It is high level actuary math.

Or so they claim.


But, it is pretty interesting to read (parts of it). They detail how they toss out questions and what they do if people who score well miss a certain question while those that score poorly get that same question correctly (they essentially junk the question).

 

[paceman]

I visited the ADA website yesterday and downloaded a PDF file discussing the delivery, scoring and grading of the NDBE exams and they had about 20 pages on the scoring and grading alone. I was a math major in college and am absolutely baffled with how the ADA grades and mathematically determines minimum passing scores. It is high level actuary math.

So there's no scale?

 

[paceman]

I visited the ADA website yesterday and downloaded a PDF file discussing the delivery, scoring and grading of the NDBE exams and they had about 20 pages on the scoring and grading alone. I was a math major in college and am absolutely baffled with how the ADA grades and mathematically determines minimum passing scores. It is high level actuary math.

So there's no scale?

 

[paceman]

I visited the ADA website yesterday and downloaded a PDF file discussing the delivery, scoring and grading of the NDBE exams and they had about 20 pages on the scoring and grading alone. I was a math major in college and am absolutely baffled with how the ADA grades and mathematically determines minimum passing scores. It is high level actuary math.

So there's no scale?

 

[kerrydds06]

those guys who compiled the questions must have had one heck of a reefer party, I kept thinking to myself as I took the exam "I've got to remember this for the retakes" but then after everybody here told me how wierd the exam was, I felt better. THis is the last BIG one Good luck tomorrow. I'm sure they will curve it just fine. Get some sleep.

 

[UNCdentalguy]

I went with old tests and cards, as did most of my testmates. This test did not seem very similar at all to the old tests. Not only did it weigh more heavily on strange subjects like behavioral management and ethics, but it also asked off the wall questions about the core subjects like endo, pros, and operative. There was nothing along the lines of "How wide should an amalgam isthmus be?" -- they ignored basic info and instead asked questions that could almost be considered subjective, depending on different treatment philosophies.

 

[sandman]

I believe you can miss around 200 Qs, if I read the ada thing right, check the appendix. Pretty odd exam. Glad I gave it the half azzed study approach. That psych degree finally came in handy, haha science bastards. You had your fun in Part 1, pay back sucks. It looked like only 5% failed over the last 5 years, so I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[sandman]

Did anyone else get a ridiculous amount of the same letters in a row, like DDDDD and CCCCC. Maybe it was just me, but I learned in 1st grade that test makers only ever put 3 of the same letter in a row. Now when I get to Grade 20 they throw that rule out the window. BS, f-BS.

 

[cusp of carabelli]

I went into the afternoon session thinking...okay...well...it can't get worse than it was in the morning....well...it was worse....there was one question (i forgot which one) where I had no clue what the words in the answers even meant. I had never seen those words before. talk about humbling. i'm not sure how to get ready for today's section except to pray...

 

[paceman]

I went into the afternoon session thinking...okay...well...it can't get worse than it was in the morning....well...it was worse....there was one question (i forgot which one) where I had no clue what the words in the answers even meant. I had never seen those words before. talk about humbling. i'm not sure how to get ready for today's section except to pray...

Another day of wierd questions. I think this was harder than yesterday's.
there were too many subjective questions that could go either way. That's what makes it so frustrating.

If i were to take this exam, I wouldn't even bother studying from the cards.

 

[kerrydds06]

Another day of wierd questions. I think this was harder than yesterday's.
there were too many subjective questions that could go either way. That's what makes it so frustrating.

If i were to take this exam, I wouldn't even bother studying from the cards.

I second that! I cant believe I misses my Seinfield reruns to cram cards that I can't even use as toilet paper! That reminds me I gotta buy groceries, studing for this thing f-ed up november for me, hope it pays off for the NERB DSCE on thursday.

For anyone that took it, How was computer test compariable to what we saw on the written?

 

[paceman]

I second that! I cant believe I misses my Seinfield reruns to cram cards that I can't even use as toilet paper! That reminds me I gotta buy groceries, studing for this thing f-ed up november for me, hope it pays off for the NERB DSCE on thursday.

For anyone that took it, How was computer test compariable to what we saw on the written?

KerryDDS06,

Good luck on the NERB written. I haven't taken it yet, but it should be a cake-walk compared to the NBDE.

Btw, do you know what syndrosis is? I think I saw it on the boards, but I have no idea what it is.

 

[kerrydds06]

KerryDDS06,

Good luck on the NERB written. I haven't taken it yet, but it should be a cake-walk compared to the NBDE.

Btw, do you know what syndrosis is? I think I saw it on the boards, but I have no idea what it is.

NO CLUE, thought it had something to do with a syndrome or a synapse, either way I guessed, that will be one of the 200 I missed.
I hope they curve this thing, I do not want to retake it. The wait is killing me already.

 

[Blue Tooth]

I thought it had to do with premature fusion of the cranial sutures.

 

[MsPurtell]

That one really had me too. I don't believe I've ever seen the word. I looked it up when I got home and blue tooth is right.

From what students at my school are saying, everyone is having this same reaction. Did everyone love some of those blurry images on today's exam? How about the question that asked about whether or not #30 should be uprighted.....and then you look at the radiograph and there is NO #30! They meant to ask about #31! Glad they'll have to ditch that one cuz I had no clue.

NO CLUE, thought it had something to do with a syndrome or a synapse, either way I guessed, that will be one of the 200 I missed.
I hope they curve this thing, I do not want to retake it. The wait is killing me already.

 

[cusp of carabelli]

yeah...i brought a magifying glass just to see if it would help id any lesions on those radiographs and it just made the picture look even more grainy b/c of the poor quality of the x-rays and photos. I particularly liked the one about that tanaka space analysis thing...what the heck was that?!.....these two days have been the most frustrating ever....neways...that test sucked big whale balls (am i allowed to say that?....oh well...i'm too burnt out and frustrated to care right now...)....that's all i have to say...

 

[sjdent]

My classmates are saying the same thing......WTF?!?

I don't think there was any possible way you could study for that thing! Completely crazy! I was so depressed by the first day that the second day was no big shocker. I was like, weellllll....guess I don't know this...and this....and this......

Very depressing, but it sure makes me feel better that you guys thought it was rough. I am so scared already to see my score...oh man, I wouldn't want to take that again. What a ridiculous test - it tested absolutely no basic knowledge. I don't know how I could've studied better for it - it was complete randomness.

 

[cusp of carabelli]

I thnk it's the ADA's way of making us feel like we don't know crap so we won't start opening our own practices right out of dental school and running out the existing practitioners and stealing their patients...anyone else wanna jump on the conspiracy theory bandwagon?

 

[sjdent]

I thnk it's the ADA's way of making us feel like we don't know crap so we won't start opening our own practices right out of dental school and running out the existing practitioners and stealing their patients

hmm...you never know. lol! It kinda worked on me.

 

[Blue Tooth]

FYI, the Tanaka-Johnston method is mixed dentition analysis used to estimate the size of the permanent canines and premolars from the incisors. Dr. Johnston is one of our ortho faculty here at Michigan and we were taught to do the analysis and had a question on it on pretty much every ortho/pedo quiz and exam; so when we saw the question, most people recognized it but couldn't remember how to do it. So it's clearly something that's very important. People just ended up guessing like most students on most questions.

If the students at the school of the guy who the method is named after can't remember exactly how to do it, I think that speaks volumes about how the rest of the country did. Everyone missed that one.

Relax, everyone did bad on that exam so we're all going to end up doing all right. If you get a 76 you studied too much.

 

[adamlc18]

FYI, the Tanaka-Johnston method is mixed dentition analysis used to estimate the size of the permanent canines and premolars from the incisors. Dr. Johnston is one of our ortho faculty here at Michigan and we were taught to do the analysis and had a question on it on pretty much every ortho/pedo quiz and exam; so when we saw the question, most people recognized it but couldn't remember how to do it. So it's clearly something that's very important. People just ended up guessing like most students on most questions.

If the students at the school of the guy who the method is named after can't remember exactly how to do it, I think that speaks volumes about how the rest of the country did. Everyone missed that one.

Relax, everyone did bad on that exam so we're all going to end up doing all right. If you get a 76 you studied too much.

We also use it here at UNC. It is used regularly in the pedo clinic. It will be on one of our finals which starts in 40 minutes.

 

[UNCdentalguy]

We also use it here at UNC. It is used regularly in the pedo clinic. It will be on one of our finals which starts in 40 minutes.

Adam is right, we do use it at UNC. But when we use it at UNC, we have this nice little form for us to write down the numbers and do all the calculations. Never are we given an arch length size and asked to do the calculations in our head. I'm sure we had to memorize the formula during one of those nitpicky pedo classes our second year, but I sure didn't remember it two years later! The calculation is really simple, but when you usually just plug numbers into a worksheet, and that question is literally number 598 on a 600 questions test, the best thing is to throw out a random guess -- I went with C.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I'm already not looking forward to taking this exam. I planned on paying it half the attention (if that) that I payed to Part I, but perhaps that isn't a good strategy. Ugh.

 

[sjdent]

I'd say the general consensus was that it was a ridiculous test!

 

[UNCdentalguy]

I'm already not looking forward to taking this exam. I planned on paying it half the attention (if that) that I payed to Part I, but perhaps that isn't a good strategy. Ugh.

No Gavin, that's absolutely a great strategy. About half the questions were pretty easy that you could probably get right without doing much studying. The other half were so random that you would have to pull out your old notes and learn details about everything, then hope that you re-learned the right stuff. I honestly wouldn't advise spending too much time on it. Go through the cards once, then maybe do some old tests. You'll get the easy ones, and the random ones are just blind luck.

 

[HuyetKiem]

FYI, the Tanaka-Johnston method is mixed dentition analysis used to estimate the size of the permanent canines and premolars from the incisors. Dr. Johnston is one of our ortho faculty here at Michigan and we were taught to do the analysis and had a question on it on pretty much every ortho/pedo quiz and exam; so when we saw the question, most people recognized it but couldn't remember how to do it. So it's clearly something that's very important. People just ended up guessing like most students on most questions.

.

Those materials are covered in our first semester of second year. Our group used this method and others (Moyers) to make an assessment during our case presentation. I may have to save my notes for Part II then.

 

[DcS]

Any word on the computer exam? The only thing I've heard is that there were a lot of investing questions.

I guess it's a good thing you all feel the same way. That means it should be curved pretty generously since everyone seems to be in agreement about the ridiculous questions. Still, I am quite envious of those of you who have taken it. Congrats on hopefully another step towards graduation

 

[UNCdentalguy]

Any word on the computer exam? The only thing I've heard is that there were a lot of investing questions.

I guess it's a good thing you all feel the same way. That means it should be curved pretty generously since everyone seems to be in agreement about the ridiculous questions. Still, I am quite envious of those of you who have taken it. Congrats on hopefully another step towards graduation

DcS, don't worry. I'm sure your roommates and classmates will be very supportive of your studying efforts this spring.

 

[DcS]

DcS, don't worry. I'm sure your roommates and classmates will be very supportive of your studying efforts this spring.

Only if i can study at farrell's re-re table in his room.

 

[kerrydds06]

I thnk it's the ADA's way of making us feel like we don't know crap so we won't start opening our own practices right out of dental school and running out the existing practitioners and stealing their patients...anyone else wanna jump on the conspiracy theory bandwagon?

There is plenty of patients to go around, I think there were too many acedemic *****S on the comittee that came up with the questions. Plain and simple, I mean who in their right mind wants to come up with the test? Some dumb ahole who wants to feel important "ohhh look at me, respect me, I'm on the comittee that creates the NBDE for the ADA" If we had their names and addresses they would be getting hate mail till the results come out. BTW, Anybody have them?

 

[kerrydds06]

I'm already not looking forward to taking this exam. I planned on paying it half the attention (if that) that I payed to Part I, but perhaps that isn't a good strategy. Ugh.

Seriously, If I Had The Time All Over again, I Would Have studied Just As Hard As I Did, Even Though In The End It Didn't Help Me On The Exam (Very Low % Of Repeats) How Much Would it Suck To Not Study And Do Bad, At Least i Can Say I Did My Best, It May Not Be Good Enough But I Gave It My All.


Typing With Caps Is Hard.

 

[Tarheel]

There is plenty of patients to go around, I think there were too many acedemic *****S on the comittee that came up with the questions. Plain and simple, I mean who in their right mind wants to come up with the test? Some dumb ahole who wants to feel important "ohhh look at me, respect me, I'm on the comittee that creates the NBDE for the ADA" If we had their names and addresses they would be getting hate mail till the results come out. BTW, Anybody have them?

Copied and pasted from ADA website. http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/testing/natboard/constructors.asp

Part II

Component A (Discipline-Based)

Operative Dentistry
John M Berwind, D.D.S.
Longview, WA
(Full-time Practitioner)

Mary Ellen McLean, D.D.S.
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

Peter T. Triolo, Jr., D.D.S.
University of Texas Health Science Center, Houston

Henry L. Young, Jr., D.D.S.
Meharry Medical College, Nashville

Dental Materials
Sharukh Khajotia, Ph.D.
University of Oklahoma, Oklahoma City
(member, Operative Dentistry Committee)

Rodney Phoenix, D.D.S.
University of Texas, San Antonio
(member, Prosthodontics Committee)

Pharmacology
Joseph Best, D.D.S., Ph.D.
Marquette University, Milwaukee

Billie Sue Kyger, D.D.S.
Gallipolis, Ohio
(Full-Time Practitioner)

Paul A. Moore, D.M.D.. Ph.D.
University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh

John Smith, Ph.D.
Oregon Health Science University, Beaverton

Prosthodontics
Donald A Curtis, D.M.D.
University of California, San Francisco
(Fixed Prosthodontics)

Charles William Wilcox, DDS
Creighton University, Omaha
(Fixed Prosthodontics)

L. Brian Toolson, D.D.S.
University of Washington, Seattle
(Removable Partial and Complete Prosthodontics)

Thomas Vergo, Jr., D.D.S.
Tufts University, Boston
(Removable Partial and Complete Prosthodontics)

Kevin S. Wall, D.M.D.
Crestview Hills, Kentucky
(Full-time Practitioner)

Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery and Pain Control
Roger Alexander, D.D.S., Ph.D.
Baylor College of Dentistry, Dallas
(Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery)

Roger Alexander, D.D.S., Ph.D
Baylor College of Dentistry, Dallas
(Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery)

James D. Crine, II, D.D.S.
Albuquerque, New Mexico
(Full-time Practitioner)

James Hupp. D.M.D., M.D.
University of Mississippi, Jackson
(Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery/Pain Control)

Orthodontics-Pediatric Dentistry
David Covell Jr, D.D.S., Ph.D
Oregon Health & Science University, Portland
(Orthodontics)

Henry W. Fields, D.D.S.
Ohio State University
(Orthodontics)

Deborah Studen-Pavlovich, D.M.D.
University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh
(Pediatric Dentistry)

Phillip R. Parker, D.D.S.
Norman, Oklahoma
(Full-time Practitioner)

Robert Primosch, D.D.S.
University of Florida, Gainesville
(Pediatric Dentistry)

Reginald W. Taylor, D.M.D.
Baylor College of Dentistry, Dallas
(Orthodontics)

Endodontics
Leif K. Bakland, D.D.S.
Loma Linda University, Loma Linda

Jeffrey C. Esterburg, D.M.D.
Medina, Ohio
(Full-time Practitioner)

Bradford Johnson, D.D.S.
University of Illinois at Chicago

Fred Benenati, D.D.S.
University of Oklahoma, Oklahoma City

Periodontics
Henry Greenwell, D.M.D., J.D.
University of Louisville, Louisville

Lee Sydney Mayer, D.M.D.
Hindman, Kentucky
(Full-time Practitioner)


John W. Rapley, D.D.S.
University of Missouri, Kansas City

Thomas Oates, Jr., D.M.D., Ph.D.
University of Texas, San Antonio

Oral Diagnosis
Lisa Koenig, D.D.S.
Marquette University, Milwaukee
(Radiology)

Carol Stewart, D.D.S.
University of Flordia, Gainesville
(Oral Medicine/Oral Diagnosis)

Robert D. France, D.D.S.
Reno, NV
(Full-time Practitioner)

Michael Kahn, D.D.S.
Tufts University, Boston
(Oral Pathology)

Michael Finkelstein, D.D.S.
Univeristy of Iowa, Iowa City
(Oral Pathology)

James R. Geist, D.D.S.
University of Detroit- Mercy
(Radiology)

Patient Management
Kenneth Coy, D.D.S., M.Ed.
University of Oklahoma, Oklahoma City
(Behavioral Science)

Linda Centore, Ph.D., R.N.
University of California, San Francisco
(Behavioral Science)

Daniel Jones, D.D.S., Ph.D.
Baylor College of Dentistry, Dallas
(Behavioral Science)

Michael Mahshigian, D.D.S., M.P.H.
Sacramento, CA
(Dental Public Health Consultant)

Roseann Mulligan, D.D.S.
University of Southern California, Los Angeles
(Special Needs)

Sena Narendran, B.D.S., DDPH, M.SC
University of Texas HSC at Houston
(Dental Public Health)

AJ Smith, D.D.S.
Salt Lake City UT
(Full-time Practitioner)


Jonathan C. Waldron, D.M.D.
Marietta, Georgia
(Full-time Practitioner)

Component B (Case-Based)

Dr. Brenda Bohaty
University of Missouri
(Pediatric Dentistry)

Dr. Lathe L. Bowen
University of Pittsburgh
(Oral Surgery)

Dr. Lawrence Huber
University of Iowa
(Prosthodontics)

Dr. Bridget Ellen Byrne
Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond
(Pharmacology)

Dr. Edward N. Friedman
Freeport, PA
(General Practice)

Dr. Jerry English
University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston
(Orthodontics)

Dr. John R. Ludington
University of Texan Health Science Center at Houston
(Endodontics)

Dr. Mel L. Kantor
University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey
New Jersey Dental School
(Radiology)

Dr. Edward Grace
University of Maryland
(Behavioral Science)

Dr. Angelo Mariotti
Ohio State University
(Periodontics)

Dr. Ann Cale-Jones
University of Texas, San Antonio
(Oral Diagnosis)

Dr. Andrew B. Nigra
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
(General Practice)

Dr. Thomas L. Ziemiecki
University of North Carolina
(Operative Dentistry)

 

[tinker bell]

they are from all over the places, there is no way you can key in anywhere. Just pray for the best.

 

[tinker bell]

and it reminds me of my part I, no repeat with questions I don't know where the heck do they find them. Thanks god, it's curved

 

[ItsGavinC]

As a general question, I heard somewhere (or perhaps so I thought) that Part 2 was eliminating the written exam completely after this year, requiring students to take the entire exam on computer.

The ADA site still lists information about the written exam, although it doesn't have a test dates for 2006 posted.

Has anybody heard this or does anyone have any information to clarify this?

 

[paceman]

As a general question, I heard somewhere (or perhaps so I thought) that Part 2 was eliminating the written exam completely after this year, requiring students to take the entire exam on computer.

The ADA site still lists information about the written exam, although it doesn't have a test dates for 2006 posted.

Has anybody heard this or does anyone have any information to clarify this?

You're right. I read in the ADA News that this is the last year they're allowing students to take it on paper. From here on in, taking the Part 2 will be like taking the dreaded DAT.

 

[ItsGavinC]

You're right. I read in the ADA News that this is the last year they're allowing students to take it on paper. From here on in, taking the Part 2 will be like taking the dreaded DAT.

Okay, so given that the test has to be scheduled in a Prometric testing center, and on back-to-back days, does anybody know what their schools are doing as far as a timeline for the exam? Our local Prometric center only has 12 seats, so scheduling for a specific time could be a burden.

I believe that our dean will simply give us a time window (a month or two) in which we have to take the exam, or at least that's what I'd like him to do. Anybody know what their schools are up to for the exam next year?