PhD/PsyD Part Time Internship

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Hi everyone,

I am looking for a part-time predoctoral internship (does not have to be APA accredited) in the NYC or CT area. Please let me know if you have heard of any opportunities. I know of the programs at IPTAR and NYSPI but otherwise I am having trouble finding any to apply to... if you have any ideas, please let me know.

Additionally, does anyone know where to find a list of non-accredited internship sites??

Thank you!
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MA Candidate said:
Hi everyone,

I am looking for a part-time predoctoral internship (does not have to be APA accredited) in the NYC or CT area. Please let me know if you have heard of any opportunities. I know of the programs at IPTAR and NYSPI but otherwise I am having trouble finding any to apply to... if you have any ideas, please let me know.

Additionally, does anyone know where to find a list of non-accredited internship sites??

Thank you!
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One purpose of the predoctoral internship is to have the person emersed full-time in clincal work. I think this part of the training. Do part-time predocs even exist?
 
Probably best to talk to your DCT.
 
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erg923 said:
One purpose of the predoctoral internship is to have the person emersed full-time in clincal work. I think this part of the training. Do part-time predocs even exist?
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I believe CAPIC has some. Don't know that I've seen any posted for the NY area, though.

If you're not already a member, consider joining the state psych association and signing up for their listserve. I don't know if any lists of non-accredited programs, but said listserve (and the state association's website) may have position announcements.
 
erg923 said:
One purpose of the predoctoral internship is to have the person emersed full-time in clincal work. I think this part of the training. Do part-time predocs even exist?
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This.

As for part-time predocs....theoretically, but all of the part-time ones I've seen aren't APA-approved, are unpaid, are in CA, and have a very predatory feel to them. Internship is meant to be immersive. Having to work 40 (or sometimes more) hours per wk is very different than 10-20hr. I'd strongly urge you to reconsider looking for part-time experiences bc licensing may be a challenge/not possible.
 
I looked far and wide for part time internships but all I could find was one apa approved internship in VA. Check out the CAPIC site.

I personally don't see the function of immersive clinical work. We are not deployed soldiers, ER doctors or some other profession that needs endurance training while practicing our skillset. I also find it odd that mandatory training for a role designed to help others requires such a rigid schedule. If a client told me that to get their dream job they had to move to another state to work full time for very little money, independent of their social support group and family obligations, I'd tell them to rethink that decision. I look forward to challenging the notion that psychologists need to follow such rigid training structures at professional gatherings in the future. It creates and unsupportive, often unrealistic demand on graduate students that is completely inconsistent with the reasons I wanted to do therapy in the first place.
 
CApsych said:
I personally don't see the function of immersive clinical work.

It creates and unsupportive, often unrealistic demand on graduate students that is completely inconsistent with the reasons I wanted to do therapy in the first place.
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There are standards for training for good reasons. Fitting your individual needs isn't the job of a training program. Also, working part-time is not the typical experience and students need to understand what it is like to see a full caseload evey day.
 
Totally, and respectfully, disagree. Training good, empathic therapists should mean affording them the same consideration they should provide their patients. If we want to expand access to these professions to more of the workforce (cough cough women of childbearing age) we should think about how to make training workable for real people.
 
Precisely (like me!). When they get to internship and have a partner and/or a kid maybe they'd like to be able to continue their training part time to account for their family obligations. Or maybe their parent is sick. Or maybe their partner can't relocate. There is zero clinical reason that internship (and add postdoc to that) needs to be structured the way it is, in my opinion. I've gotten fantastic training at half time practica. I understand the administrative rationale for the match. But to discourage people seeking flexible ways to get training makes no sense to me. We want more diversity in this field right? whats the drawback in being more accommodating?
 
As someone in an organization that is funded on the fiscal year calendar, I can see the benefit of having the full-time internship set up the way it is. Also, having everyone on their own timeline would make interviewing and application time an absolute nightmare. Logistically, things other than FT positions are a nightmare when you are on a 1 year time scale. We make sacrifices in our professional education. Not everyone has either the aptitude, or the dedication to see it through.
 
CApsych said:
Totally, and respectfully, disagree. Training good, empathic therapists should mean affording them the same consideration they should provide their patients. If we want to expand access to these professions to more of the workforce (cough cough women of childbearing age) we should think about how to make training workable for real people.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "the same consideration they should provide their patients." Our patients consult us for our expertise and skill, which we develop through years of dedicated study. A 40-hour work week is hardly "endurance training," and as WisNeuro pointed out it is the basis for defining 1.0 FTE in most organizations.

Women of childbearing age make up the majority of early career psychologists, so I don't understand your point there. Though I'm not opposed to half-time internships on principle, offering more of them will not change the fundamental problem of dismal maternity leave policies and child care structures in the US. All it really does is make the profession slightly more accessible to people who have another source of income to support their involvement in uncompensated work. I'm always stunned by how infrequently it occurs to people (usually women) that their partners could be the ones working part-time while they themselves devote more time to a critical period of their professional development.
 
I'll make this my last response as I know the OP has a real question. I'm at the same organization as you, WisNeuro. And I understand the logistical reasons for a full time position, but I don't see a clinical reason.

I'm always stunned about the push back I experience on here when I mention doing thing a little bit differently. I've yet to see anyone share in this conversation why a part-time internship would be a bad thing, outside of logistical concerns re the funding cycle, which could be fixed if we , well, fixed it. Is there a good reason why increased training flexibility is bad? Or is this a variation of "when I was your age I walked to school uphill in the snow, both ways"? Why do psychiatry residencies offer full time options, but psychology internships and post docs do not? I'm not sure where you all live, but not many people in my geographical area can have their partner go down to part time work so that they can pursue their "critical period of professional development." Childcare here costs much much more than the internship stipend. Partners need to work full time to make up for that.

What are the drawbacks to making the training experience more livable? Why are people so opposed to others doing things a bit differently? And did someone really imply that those of us who want to balance our work with our family life may not have the "aptitude or dedication"? Stunning, indeed.
 
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CApsych said:
I'm not sure where you all live, but not many people in my geographical area can have their partner go down to part time work so that they can pursue their "critical period of professional development." Childcare here costs much much more than the internship stipend. Partners need to work full time to make up for that.

What are the drawbacks to making the training experience more livable? Why are people so opposed to others doing things a bit differently
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As I said, I'm not opposed to half-time internship options. If I were hiring a full-time clinician I might favor someone who has demonstrated the ability to manage a full-time caseload. Psychologists on more academic career paths might find it challenging to scale back during the internship and postdoc years when most people are positioning themselves for a competitive job market. But as long as someone understands the pros and cons of a part-time training schedule, I think it's OK.

My husband and I chose to make a substantial lifestyle adjustment during my internship and postdoc years to give our baby more time with a parent at home. He didn't return to full-time work for several years. Financing a certain kind of lifestyle in a high-priced area was not at the top of our priority list. We managed, and it was worth it.
 
CApsych said:
If we want to expand access to these professions to more of the workforce ....
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Thing is... we don't. There are more than enough psychologists, counselors, and clinical social workers. Professional training is created to make one a competent professional. Not cater to the student's needs and desires. I suspect you already know this.

More importantly, this logic never works. There is a requirement. You either do it or not. Try applying this argument to the IRS or dating. If a patient said, "paying taxes is too hard" or "we want people to get more attractive, and we're not going to get more attractive as a population if hot chicks refuse to date slobs!", you wouldn't agree with them.

CApsych said:
outside of logistical concerns re the funding cycle, which could be fixed if we , well, fixed it.
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As a competent professional, you'll learn that no one is going to do anything for you. If you want something done, do it yourself.

CApsych said:
I personally don't see the function of immersive clinical work. We are not deployed soldiers, ER doctors or some other profession that needs endurance training while practicing our skillset. I also find it odd that mandatory training for a role designed to help others requires such a rigid schedule. .... It creates and unsupportive, often unrealistic demand on graduate students ....
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Psychologists' work create demands that we do not want. Patient crises almost never happen when it's convenient. Sometimes you get a patient load that is extraordinarily draining. Learning how to deal with this is vital. Learning that your idealized version of the profession is inaccurate often happens in internship.

I would worry that once you get through post doc, you'll find that PP or a part time therapy position is not what you think. I've seen this many time. Moms wants to see patients between school hours. Guess when 90% of patients with insurance want to see their therapist? Hint: it's not those hours. As for pay, the money is not what you think.
 
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I believe that the Carson Center in MA and George Mason Counseling Center have part time internship positions.
 
CApsych said:
I'll make this my last response as I know the OP has a real question. I'm at the same organization as you, WisNeuro. And I understand the logistical reasons for a full time position, but I don't see a clinical reason.

I'm always stunned about the push back I experience on here when I mention doing thing a little bit differently. I've yet to see anyone share in this conversation why a part-time internship would be a bad thing, outside of logistical concerns re the funding cycle, which could be fixed if we , well, fixed it. Is there a good reason why increased training flexibility is bad? Or is this a variation of "when I was your age I walked to school uphill in the snow, both ways"? Why do psychiatry residencies offer full time options, but psychology internships and post docs do not? I'm not sure where you all live, but not many people in my geographical area can have their partner go down to part time work so that they can pursue their "critical period of professional development." Childcare here costs much much more than the internship stipend. Partners need to work full time to make up for that.

What are the drawbacks to making the training experience more livable? Why are people so opposed to others doing things a bit differently? And did someone really imply that those of us who want to balance our work with our family life may not have the "aptitude or dedication"? Stunning, indeed.
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There are part-time psychiatry residencies? Where? Just curious. I'm also curious how a part time internship (even at a VA) can be APA accredited. I thought APA considers that a no go.

For what it's worth, I'm really glad that I had a year of full time clinical work experience on internship. It showed me an idea of what it's like working in a full time clinical position. Just adjusting to the 9 to 5 (well, 8 to 4:30) schedule alone was difficult for me.
 
APA does accredit part-time internships. It's just not very common. I think they tend to be UCC internships, but I'm not sure.

Several medical specialties have part-time residencies. Pediatrics has quite a few of them. Predictably, the female-dominated specialties take on the burden of making training "flexible." You will not see this in a surgical specialty.
 
Why does training need to be "flexible?" This is not a good analogy for life/career.
 
I don't think the clinical reasons against part-time internships are that compelling. What concerns me about the OP's request is how casually he or she gives up on an APA-accredited internship. The "dream job" isn't the internship, it's what comes after. Most rewarding professions have periods of deprivation and hard work along the way. But the more that people are willing to work for pennies (non-accredited pennies!), the less dreamy the possibilities are for the rest of us. All of us are affected when the profession is devalued.
 
I remember seeing a few part-time internships when I applied, although I don't remember where, as I wasn't interested in that model. I believe APA will accredit half-time internships if it's the equivalent of 2050 hours (e.g., 1025 hours over two years). I know that Widener University in philly encourages (or maybe mandates?) part-time internships, though I believe they are captive and not open to students from other schools.

I think there are benefits to full-time work for certain populations. For example, rehab patients' status often changes rapidly, and the trainee will be missing a lot if they only see them once or twice per week. Where I currently work, DBT patients have 24/7 access to their therapists, so that could cause some problems if trainees had limited availability. Other than that though, I don't see a huge problem with half-time internships over a two year span. One should, theoretically, be able to learn the same clinical skills in that time, and in some cases would even allow for more longer-term therapy.
 
Just to add to the philosophical disagreement around part-time vs. full-time. My patient told me today that they are going through a difficult time balancing work, family obligations, health issues. Then they said, "I think I am getting stronger by going through this without relying on someone else. I prayed for a break from things once and everything was taken away, now I pray for strength." I am glad that my training put me through the wringer. I was challenged intellectually, emotionally, logistically, financially. I don't try to make things easier for myself or my patients, I always strive to develop the strength to meet those conditions.
 
Just wanted to add (before the straw man arguments) that I also support reasonable accommodations and meeting people where they are at, but this has to be balanced with continually raising the bar. Change is inevitable and you are either getting better or you are getting worse. Too many people in the mental health field lower expectations all day long and it hurts our patients. This is a variation on that theme IMO.
 
I am completely enamored with the idea of a 2-year half-time internship. I hear that they exist but don't know anyone that has completed one.

I believe the current modal experience of having to move for each step in the training process is not sustainable or healthy. Just b/c I had to do it does not mean that others need to as well. On the flip side, there are plenty of people that are able to achieve their training needs by always staying within a metropolitan area.

My support for the 2-year, half-time internship comes from a desire to increase research time. I would love to see these internships closely aligned with doctoral programs and allow for interns to actually spend half their time continuing research within their lab. I feel that I was only starting to become comfortable and adept at dealing with the local IRB, working with my adviser, thinking of projects that can be accomplished in my lab, having a reliable team of undergraduate RAs, and actually being done with class. But instead I had to move far from my university, start to take on a large clinical load in a place that cares mostly about getting patients through the doors, and I had 1 day to make research appear out of thin air as I am supposed to be applying to internships (oh, and still working on my dissertation).
 
DynamicDidactic said:
I am completely enamored with the idea of a 2-year half-time internship. I hear that they exist but don't know anyone that has completed one.

I believe the current modal experience of having to move for each step in the training process is not sustainable or healthy. Just b/c I had to do it does not mean that others need to as well. On the flip side, there are plenty of people that are able to achieve their training needs by always staying within a metropolitan area.

My support for the 2-year, half-time internship comes from a desire to increase research time. I would love to see these internships closely aligned with doctoral programs and allow for interns to actually spend half their time continuing research within their lab. I feel that I was only starting to become comfortable and adept at dealing with the local IRB, working with my adviser, thinking of projects that can be accomplished in my lab, having a reliable team of undergraduate RAs, and actually being done with class. But instead I had to move far from my university, start to take on a large clinical load in a place that cares mostly about getting patients through the doors, and I had 1 day to make research appear out of thin air as I am supposed to be applying to internships (oh, and still working on my dissertation).
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I would agree if the internship were post-graduation, but two additional years before you can graduate is sooo much. Especially since you have to pay fees to your graduate program during internship.
 
If it were rolled into existing training, I could see that working. I do think the current model is relatively nonsensical and unsustainable - (most likely) having to move for one year just doesn't make a lot of sense and never did. I think it makes sense to roll it into either graduate training or post-doc, at least to a greater degree than at present. I'd obviously love to see internships that are half-time research and half-time clinical since I found it frustrating to no end that I lost a lot of my research momentum during the year and have to reboot, but at that point we're really not looking at anything much different than the latter part of grad school for most folks in the science-practitioner/clinical-science model programs. From a training perspective, I'm not sure it adds much but it may make sense to do given the whole internship framework was built around folks getting much less clinical training in grad school than is now the norm. Either way, this doesn't really address the issue of part-time internships from perspectives of the OP though, since we're really just talking about rebalancing how a full-time week is being spent, not working 9-1 and going home.
 
There is negative connotation of "part-time" from a program and internship perspective. Although in doctoral training you may have 9-12 credit hours per semester, you are considered full-time. When you begin practicum placements, it is 20 hours or less per week, but you are enrolled full-time. You may have 9 hours of classes per week.

Some internships are full-time and you work M-T for 32 hours per week, but only 12-15 of those hours may be clinical hours and the rest in supervision, report writing, or didactics. Friday may be designated as Dissertation/research days. Although you may be working anywhere from 32-36 hours a week with 15 clinical hours, it is designated as Full-time. There are restrictions where interns cannot work outside of the internship during the internship year.

Internships normally have 3-4 rotations and some have an administrative-research rotation where you may not have to be in the office daily but you have to do a proposal or have a meeting with staff over your research.

Basically hours in the office may not necessarily determine full-time or part-time status. Sometimes, interns have to take a month or more off and then extend their internship, but they are still considered Full time. APA accredited internships specify training as being required rather then just putting in hours per week. Generally my experience has been negative related to part-time designation from a professional perspective. My actual APA accredited internship was M-Th with Friday being dissertation day as some of us drove back to campus for meeting with advisor/chair on Fridays and one intern who did her internship during her forth year drove back to her campus to take additional courses that year on Fridays.
 
OneNeuroDoctor said:
There is negative connotation of "part-time" from a program and internship perspective. Although in doctoral training you may have 9-12 credit hours per semester, you are considered full-time. When you begin practicum placements, it is 20 hours or less per week, but you are enrolled full-time. You may have 9 hours of classes per week.

Some internships are full-time and you work M-T for 32 hours per week, but only 12-15 of those hours may be clinical hours and the rest in supervision, report writing, or didactics. Friday may be designated as Dissertation/research days. Although you may be working anywhere from 32-36 hours a week with 15 clinical hours, it is designated as Full-time. There are restrictions where interns cannot work outside of the internship during the internship year.

Internships normally have 3-4 rotations and some have an administrative-research rotation where you may not have to be in the office daily but you have to do a proposal or have a meeting with staff over your research.

Basically hours in the office may not necessarily determine full-time or part-time status. Sometimes, interns have to take a month or more off and then extend their internship, but they are still considered Full time. APA accredited internships specify training as being required rather then just putting in hours per week. Generally my experience has been negative related to part-time designation from a professional perspective. My actual APA accredited internship was M-Th with Friday being dissertation day as some of us drove back to campus for meeting with advisor/chair on Fridays and one intern who did her internship during her forth year drove back to her campus to take additional courses that year on Fridays.
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I could be wrong, but I believe UTSW's integrated/in-house internship is two years and part-time. Essentially like an advanced set of practicum placements.

Logistically, that makes sense. Or, like Ollie mentioned, roll it into postdoc. Although that might be a better option if licensing occurred pre-internship (with internship still being required).

The full-time clinical designation made more sense back when there were folks coming out of clinical psych doctoral programs with minimal clinical training. That isn't the case nowadays. I do think there's something to be gained by immersion in full-time clinical duties, particularly for those wanting a clinical path, but I wouldn't be inherently opposed to part-time options if well-designed.
 
If it has a chance..the UTSW model is the way to go. Unfortunately, I'm sure some of the more malignant programs will find a way to exploit it. Charge more $, require LESS actual training bc all of the education is under one roof and it can go almost entirely unchecked, etc.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
Logistically, that makes sense. Or, like Ollie mentioned, roll it into postdoc. Although that might be a better option if licensing occurred pre-internship (with internship still being required).
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I'd like to see the numbers, but I actually see this as the norm. I didn't do it this way, but most of my non-neuro postdoc counterparts stayed on after internship. And, since being a faculty, the trend from interns staying on as postdoc is a regular thing. Many people can stay on if they wish, and many students actually look for sites with a postdoc that they can roll into. People can make this work pretty easily as long as they are competent and plan ahead. I'm not totally against the part-time postdoc, I just wouldn't want to work as a faculty at such a site considering the logistical mess involved, and I'd be wary of the students who choose that route.
 
WisNeuro said:
I'd like to see the numbers, but I actually see this as the norm.
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I think this completely depends on the site. 0/6 interns from my internship cohort last year stayed on as postdocs. 3/8 of the postdocs at my current fellowship site are people who stayed on from internship. I definitely interviewed at sites that kept a higher percentage of people around, and I interviewed places that seemed to prefer bringing in new people and new ideas. Overall, I wouldn't say it's the norm (at least, not from what I've seen at the places where I've been an extern/intern/fellow). I see it more as serendipitous if you can find a site that really fits you, is in a place you'd like to land for a few years, and likes to hire from within.
 
eremitestar said:
I think this completely depends on the site. 0/6 interns from my internship cohort last year stayed on as postdocs. 3/8 of the postdocs at my current fellowship site are people who stayed on from internship. I definitely interviewed at sites that kept a higher percentage of people around, and I interviewed places that seemed to prefer bringing in new people and new ideas. Overall, I wouldn't say it's the norm (at least, not from what I've seen at the places where I've been an extern/intern/fellow). I see it more as serendipitous if you can find a site that really fits you, is in a place you'd like to land for a few years, and likes to hire from within.
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Agree that it depends on the site--some places (like Brown, I've heard) almost expect it, while at others, either a postdoc isn't available or they prefer to find folks who've trained elsewhere. And there can of course also be differences in the quality of each experience--some sites may have great internships and so-so postdocs, and vice-versa, which might make interns more or less likely to stick around.
 
From the perspective of internship sites, 1/2 time positions (at presumably 1/2 the stipend), would significantly limit your pool of applicants. Internship stipend are meager to begin with, and there are relatively few candidates who could afford to live on half stipends or want to go through the virtually impossible task of finding two sources of "half-income", likely in a new city or region of the country.
 
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