Patient Simulators: how many schools have it?

[bearintraining]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hi all,

just wondering if anyone has any idea of how common it is for schools to have the patient simulator mannequins??

thanks

 

[mcloaf]

Most of the schools (all but one?) I've interviewed at have them, but I'm not sure how representative a sample that is.

 

[BABSstudent]

All three schools I interviewed at had them but said that medical students rarely use them. They say mostly the residents use them.

 

[bearintraining]

Most of the schools (all but one?) I've interviewed at have them, but I'm not sure how representative a sample that is.

I guess also further to this point -- how much access do students have to them? Is it a bit/somewhat/good/lots ?

I interviewed at SLU.. seems like there's a little bit of exposure in each year, but that upon request with the person who runs it that you/groups could get more time in..

 

[NickNaylor]

Protip: this is one of those things schools love to show off but is actually useless when it comes to education. Don't be swayed by fancy facilities and whatever spin job the admissions office manages to produce when it comes to things like "early patient exposure" and other related things. There are far more important things to choose a school based on.

That said, nearly every school will have some kind of standardized patient program (actors acting as patients). Most hospitals will have fancy sim bots but you likely won't use them much if at all. As BABS mentioned, they are generally used for resident training.

(sent from my phone)

 

[CrimsonKing]

Protip: this is one of those things schools love to show off but is actually useless when it comes to education. Don't be swayed by fancy facilities and whatever spin job the admissions office manages to produce when it comes to things like "early patient exposure" and other related things. There are far more important things to choose a school based on.

👍 +1

This is just as worthless to your medical education as schools that brag about "early patient contact" when you lack the skills to make good use of it. Patient simulators are neat, but no more effective for a junior medical student than standardized patients.

 

[Geebeejay]

I always figured these simulators would be more useful for ms3 and ms4.

 

[CrimsonKing]

I always figured these simulators would be more useful for ms3 and ms4.

Why? When you're on rotation, you're surrounded by real patients. Who needs a simulator?

 

[Kaputt]

Why? When you're on rotation, you're surrounded by real patients. Who needs a simulator?

For practicing codes

But anyway, we have simulators here but pretty much only residents use them and med students just stand in the corner watching them mess around with them

Do not put "has a cool sim center!" in the pros list of a school if you're having trouble deciding -- you won't be benefiting from it at all

 

[music2doc]

👍 +1

This is just as worthless to your medical education as schools that brag about "early patient contact" when you lack the skills to make good use of it. Patient simulators are neat, but no more effective for a junior medical student than standardized patients.

This.

Occasionally, we get to use them for workshops (elective workshops M1 and required workshops M2), but that's the exception, not the rule. I will say that GOOD early pt contact is helpful and makes the sciences bearable. The problem with early pt contact, IMO, is that a lot of schools do it poorly (i.e., preceptorships are really just shadowing and taking the occasional history/doing part of a physical exam).

What I like about mine is that we are paired up with an upper-level PharmD student (i.e., knows drugs and labs but has little interest in learning ddx or physical exam taking) and are, as a team, able to function "as the primary healthcare provider" for our patients. We see patients in a training clinic designed specifically for training M1s and M2s. We present pts to the attending MD and PharmD after assessing and coming up w/ a tentative ddx (using any/all resources available to us). The attendings look at the case with us and make recommendations, after which we return to the room to perform the treatment (under supervision) as the attendings have specified. For M1s, they allow 2 hours/pt and for M2s, they allow 1 hr/pt to ensure we have plenty of time to do a full assessment and learn about the case. (This is done in a free clinic setting and the pts are aware the visit will take longer as a result of the training. Everything we do is, of course, closely monitored.) It really is an amazing opportunity that I have trouble believing someone would call "worthless." Certainly all of the M3s, M4s, and residents I have spoken with that went through this program have given it rave reviews and felt it was very helpful in their development/readiness for M3 rotations.

 

[MedPR]

All 12 schools I interviewed at had one.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[MicroSteph]

All the Texas schools I interviewed at had them.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Seemed like all, but it felt like this was the new "thing" to show off during interview tours.

 

[mimelim]

Why? When you're on rotation, you're surrounded by real patients. Who needs a simulator?

I ran through a couple dozen trauma simulations as an M3/M4 and then another dozen or so codes. We had a couple of nights on trauma where the 3rd or 4th MVC patient would roll in and I would be the only person from the trauma team in the room and would run the trauma. Granted I had a reasonable amount of exposure working on real trauma patients, but working in the sim lab was irreplaceable for making me feel comfortable running things. Being forced to make decisions and then going over your mistakes afterwards is a form of learning that you really don't get much of in medical school. The sim lab allows for this.

That having been said, most places that have sim labs have more equipment than man power or programs in place to use them. I had to actively seek out time in the sim lab. We just grabbed 3-4 people at a time and asked the director of the sim lab to setup some traumas for us to run. Did it every couple of weeks and had a blast while probably learning more than many rotations.

 

[WDeagle]

I would consider the presence of patient simulators a bad thing actually. This means you have to waste more time with patient sims when you could be doing something productive or fun. The ideal school would have no patient sims, no early pt contact, and all lectures are recorded and online with no mandatory attendance. Also, warm weather and proximity and a nice gym. If you find this ideal school you should go there.

Also good coffee is important too.

 

[skais595]

Protip: this is one of those things schools love to show off but is actually useless when it comes to education. Don't be swayed by fancy facilities and whatever spin job the admissions office manages to produce when it comes to things like "early patient exposure" and other related things. There are far more important things to choose a school based on.

That said, nearly every school will have some kind of standardized patient program (actors acting as patients). Most hospitals will have fancy sim bots but you likely won't use them much if at all. As BABS mentioned, they are generally used for resident training.

(sent from my phone)

Would love to know what you/other current med students think these are. I know they are very different person to person, but anything stand out now that you are in school?

 

[Geebeejay]

Why? When you're on rotation, you're surrounded by real patients. Who needs a simulator?

For practicing procedures, codes and interdisciplinary collaboration.

 

[Barcu]

Would love to know what you/other current med students think these are. I know they are very different person to person, but anything stand out now that you are in school?

Important are location, cost, curriculum and other school stuff (amount of time in class and required activities, also includes resources for those who don't go to class, etc).

Prestige/ranking is somewhere in the middle. It's not important, but it's a nice boost both for yourself and residency (we're human after all).

Less important were facilities, bodies per cadaver, grading system (though less would agree with me on this).

 

[NickNaylor]

Would love to know what you/other current med students think these are. I know they are very different person to person, but anything stand out now that you are in school?

Ditto this:

Important are location, cost, curriculum and other school stuff (amount of time in class and required activities, also includes resources for those who don't go to class, etc).

Prestige/ranking is somewhere in the middle. It's not important, but it's a nice boost both for yourself and residency (we're human after all).

Less important were facilities, bodies per cadaver, grading system (though less would agree with me on this).