Patient's Letter of Recommendation for Medical Schools

[jessicafkim]

Any help or advice would be appreciated!

I currently work as a Clinical Research Coordinator at a busy Hematology/Oncology practice. One of my patients said that he wanted to write me a letter of recommendation for my medical school application. Any thoughts? Advice? I already have other LORs from health professionals and professors, but I thought that this was an interesting "twist" to my application as I have been a part of his treatment team-- seeing him weekly for his chemotherapy/office visits.

Also, does anyone know when LORs are considered "too old"?

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[NeuResurgens]

Wow, that IS interesting. I would take the guy's letter - an actual patient speaking to your ability to work with patients would probably make an impression.

 

[ridethecliche]

I would do it in a heartbeat. I'd just want to be sure that the letter said that the patient wanted to do this when you submit this because you don't want anyone to think that you asked the patient to do so.

Congrats on being a solid part of the team. It's always an amazing feeling when a patient validates the work you do.

 

[Goro]

This would be really, really novel!

Any help or advice would be appreciated!

I currently work as a Clinical Research Coordinator at a busy Hematology/Oncology practice. One of my patients said that he wanted to write me a letter of recommendation for my medical school application. Any thoughts? Advice? I already have other LORs from health professionals and professors, but I thought that this was an interesting "twist" to my application as I have been a part of his treatment team-- seeing him weekly for his chemotherapy/office visits.

Also, does anyone know when LORs are considered "too old"?

 

[gyngyn]

One of my patients said that he wanted to write me a letter of recommendation for my medical school application. Any thoughts? Advice?

Do not use a chemo patient's LOR! It could easily be misinterpreted as a form of coercion from a member of a vulnerable population.

 

[ridethecliche]

I would do it in a heartbeat. I'd just want to be sure that the letter said that the patient wanted to do this when you submit this because you don't want anyone to think that you asked the patient to do so.

Congrats on being a solid part of the team. It's always an amazing feeling when a patient validates the work you do.

Do not use a chemo patient's LOR! It could easily be misinterpreted as a form of coercion from a member of a vulnerable population.

What I mentioned wouldn't help?

 

[HybridEarth]

Slightly related? Part of my employment encompassed me teaching customers one-to-one over a one year period (think of something very similar to the Apple store "geniuses" training customers, except I taught the same people every week for an entire year). I really left a lasting impression on one of the customers and he said he wanted to write me a letter of rec. I already have 5 letters + the committee letter, would it even be worth having?

 

[Stagg737]

Do not use a chemo patient's LOR! It could easily be misinterpreted as a form of coercion from a member of a vulnerable population.

I'm not really sure why it's any more a form of coercion than any other LOR. As long as the patient is focusing on the 'outstanding level of care jessicafkim provided' and not saying stuff like "i'm dying, let her in" I'm not sure what the problem would be. I mean, I would hope that anyone looking at a LOR would be looking at it objectively in regards to the applicant and not in terms of who writes it...

Personally, I think it's pretty awesome that a future patient/client thinks highly enough to make that offer. I'd take it in a heartbeat and run with it.

 

[Tintinnabula]

I'm not really sure why it's any more a form of coercion than any other LOR. As long as the patient is focusing on the 'outstanding level of care jessicafkim provided' and not saying stuff like "i'm dying, let her in" I'm not sure what the problem would be. I mean, I would hope that anyone looking at a LOR would be looking at it objectively in regards to the applicant and not in terms of who writes it...

Personally, I think it's pretty awesome that a future patient/client thinks highly enough to make that offer. I'd take it in a heartbeat and run with it.

Because the folks reading it don't know if the offer was made during chemo, when the patient felt vulnerable and possibly as though their outcome depended on keeping on the good side of their team by engaging in behaviors like... offering to write LORs.

 

[gyngyn]

What I mentioned wouldn't help?

Not a bit. A vulnerable person may say whatever is needed.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm not really sure why it's any more a form of coercion than any other LOR. As long as the patient is focusing on the 'outstanding level of care jessicafkim provided' and not saying stuff like "i'm dying, let her in" I'm not sure what the problem would be. I mean, I would hope that anyone looking at a LOR would be looking at it objectively in regards to the applicant and not in terms of who writes it...

Personally, I think it's pretty awesome that a future patient/client thinks highly enough to make that offer. I'd take it in a heartbeat and run with it.

Letters of evaluation come from people who have supervised you. They should be in a position in which you have no power over them.

 

[ridethecliche]

Ahh I see. Working in research with onc patients myself, I totally see where gyngyn is coming from.

That's what i was thinking when I wrote my comment as well, but that about seals it. Perhaps your pi can write about the patients comments in their letter for you, but yeah I'm with gyn^2.

 

[Thangbill]

What?

 

[235009]

This is an interesting question.

I'm on the fence about whether you should use this directly for the reasons stated above (someone might think you asked for the letter). Are you getting a letter of rec from a supervisor at this job? If so I would ask the patient to give the letter to your supervisor to include in their letter. That way your supervisor can put it into context and attach the patient's letter to theirs.

 

[ridethecliche]

That's what i said!

 

[resiroth]

You can always send the letter to only a subset of schools. Maybe with some "longshots" that you weren't necessarily expecting to get into anyway.

 

[ridethecliche]

You can always send the letter to only a subset of schools. Maybe with some "longshots" that you weren't necessarily expecting to get into anyway.

Not if they want letters through AMCAS.

 

[resiroth]

Not if they want letters through AMCAS.

? I sent a subset of my letters to a lot of schools. I had 6, most wanted 3-5, some were adamant about not accepting more than 3. They went from interfolio to amcas and then on the primary you can assign letters to schools (any number of letters for any given school).

I think I'm probably missing something.

 

[ridethecliche]

Hah, I don't remember assigning letters for AMCAS, but that might be because I had a committee letter.

 

[Tintinnabula]

Hah, I don't remember assigning letters for AMCAS, but that might be because I had a committee letter.

Committee letter plus additional letters from people I've known as mentors. Those folks submitted their letters directly to AMCAS, as did the committee, I just blanket assigned them to my schools. Did not use Interfolio, as it doesn't appear to be a big thing here.

 

[ridethecliche]

Yeah, I just had a committee letter, so I didn't have to do that. I thought all letters went everywhere. My mistake!

 

[Stagg737]

Because the folks reading it don't know if the offer was made during chemo, when the patient felt vulnerable and possibly as though their outcome depended on keeping on the good side of their team by engaging in behaviors like... offering to write LORs.

I would hope that OP would be able to tell if the person was using this as coercion to get better treatment and have the morals to decline if they felt that was the case. I would also hope that adcoms would not be so jaded as to jump to that conclusion unless the letter didn't align with what other letters also said.

Letters of evaluation come from people who have supervised you. They should be in a position in which you have no power over them.

I can see why the second part could be problematic if OP really did have significant power over their treatment. I tend to disagree with the supervisor thing though. I had a letter in my first cycle that was not from a supervisor, but a friend that I played soccer with who was also a resident at the time. I actually had more than 1 interviewer say that it was a unique and very impressive letter and it led to some interesting talking points, though I see where you're coming from in this situation.

Out of curiosity, would you ever consider a LOR from a source that wasn't a supervisor? If not, why wouldn't you?

 

[gyngyn]

Out of curiosity, would you ever consider a LOR from a source that wasn't a supervisor? If not, why wouldn't you?

A strong letter does not come from a friend, a relative, an employee or a patient. Nor do they come from anyone elected by or paid to represent you.
Someone who can reasonably be expected to tell us the objective truth is a better source.

 

[Stagg737]

A strong letter does not come from a friend, a relative, an employee or a patient. Nor do they come from anyone elected by or paid to represent you.
Someone who can reasonably be expected to tell us the objective truth is a better source.

Okay, but just playing devil's advocate, what makes supervisors different? A student isn't going to ask someone that won't write them the best letter possible for an LOR. I had about 15 people that I could have asked for a letter from, but I knew about 5 of them would write me a mediocre/not stellar LOR, so I only asked the 5-6 people that told me they would write me great letters. On top of that, I've been friends with a lot of my supervisors and even professors. I had more than one grad school professor that a few friends and I would get drinks with after class.

I also know people who would thought very highly of me, but wouldn't have written a great letter because I don't think they had the writing skills to do so (aka my boss at Jimmy John's that said I was one of the most responsible and caring people he'd ever met). By that logic, the only time LORs could be considered a useful means of measuring a candidate is if they can't get decent ones, and that speaks more to their inability to properly network than their actual character...

 

[gyngyn]

Okay, but just playing devil's advocate, what makes supervisors different? A student isn't going to ask someone that won't write them the best letter possible for an LOR. I had about 15 people that I could have asked for a letter from, but I knew about 5 of them would write me a mediocre/not stellar LOR, so I only asked the 5-6 people that told me they would write me great letters. On top of that, I've been friends with a lot of my supervisors and even professors. I had more than one grad school professor that a few friends and I would get drinks with after class.

I also know people who would thought very highly of me, but wouldn't have written a great letter because I don't think they had the writing skills to do so (aka my boss at Jimmy John's that said I was one of the most responsible and caring people he'd ever met). By that logic, the only time LORs could be considered a useful means of measuring a candidate is if they can't get decent ones, and that speaks more to their inability to properly network than their actual character...

I'm not sure I understand your question.

 

[Stagg737]

I'm not sure I understand your question.

I'm just saying that oftentimes a supervisor or professor is also an applicant's friend. In those situations, what makes getting a letter from those professors or supervisors any different from getting a letter from a friend who has worked with the applicant, but wasn't their direct superior? In both situations the LOR writer is still a friend and they understand .

I guess I'm ultimately asking what the actual point of letters are since basically everyone is going to get them from either a committee, a science prof, or some other authority figure who likes them and will write them a good letter. Honestly, unless someone gets an absolutely outstanding letter from someone with a lot of influence, I don't really see the point other than creating another hoop to jump through.

 

[Goro]

Supervisors are in the best position to evaluate you, not merely recommend you. They're the ones most likely to be objective, even if you pal around with them.

Okay, but just playing devil's advocate, what makes supervisors different? A student isn't going to ask someone that won't write them the best letter possible for an LOR. I had about 15 people that I could have asked for a letter from, but I knew about 5 of them would write me a mediocre/not stellar LOR, so I only asked the 5-6 people that told me they would write me great letters. On top of that, I've been friends with a lot of my supervisors and even professors. I had more than one grad school professor that a few friends and I would get drinks with after class.

I also know people who would thought very highly of me, but wouldn't have written a great letter because I don't think they had the writing skills to do so (aka my boss at Jimmy John's that said I was one of the most responsible and caring people he'd ever met). By that logic, the only time LORs could be considered a useful means of measuring a candidate is if they can't get decent ones, and that speaks more to their inability to properly network than their actual character...

 

[gyngyn]

I'm just saying that oftentimes a supervisor or professor is also an applicant's friend. In those situations, what makes getting a letter from those professors or supervisors any different from getting a letter from a friend who has worked with the applicant, but wasn't their direct superior? In both situations the LOR writer is still a friend and they understand .

I guess I'm ultimately asking what the actual point of letters are since basically everyone is going to get them from either a committee, a science prof, or some other authority figure who likes them and will write them a good letter. Honestly, unless someone gets an absolutely outstanding letter from someone with a lot of influence, I don't really see the point other than creating another hoop to jump through.

The point of a Letter of Evaluation is to give credible evidence of an applicant's possession of personal and professional qualities necessary to become a physician. A person whose primary association with the candidate is as a friend, loved one or patient cannot be expected to give the objective information requested.

 

[Stagg737]

The point of a Letter of Evaluation is to give credible evidence of an applicant's possession of personal and professional qualities necessary to become a physician. A person whose primary association with the candidate is as a friend, loved one or patient cannot be expected to give the objective information requested.

I see your point, but how do you differentiate someone who is 'just a supervisor' from someone who is a friend and a supervisor, or does the difference not matter? One of my letter writers was a friend for a few years before he was my supervisor and more than one of my letter writers are friends of mine (all but one were supervisors). Do you really think these people wouldn't write the best letters possible? Additionally, do you think any applicant with any sort of common sense would get letters from people that wouldn't paint them as the perfect candidate?

 

[gyngyn]

Additionally, do you think any applicant with any sort of common sense would get letters from people that wouldn't paint them as the perfect candidate?

It happens all the time.

 

[Stagg737]

It happens all the time.

May I ask effect that has on an applicants chances? Especially in candidates with strong stats (33+ MCAT, 3.8+ GPA), will a bad letter or all mediocre letters significantly drop or kill their chances for an acceptance?

 

[gyngyn]

May I ask effect that has on an applicants chances? Especially in candidates with strong stats (33+ MCAT, 3.8+ GPA), will a bad letter or all mediocre letters significantly drop or kill their chances for an acceptance?

Most letters are moderately to very positive though fairly nonspecific (for our purposes).
Frankly bad letters are uncommon but have a chilling effect.
Multiple neutral letters will absolutely increase the chance of waitlist over acceptance.

 

[sephora89]

Most letters are moderately to very positive though fairly nonspecific (for our purposes).
Frankly bad letters are uncommon but have a chilling effect.
Multiple neutral letters will absolutely increase the chance of waitlist over acceptance.

What's more common, bad letters or Institutional Action?

 

[Promethean]

If someone is determined to write a letter of support for you, that is a very kind gesture on their part.

I wouldn't use a letter written by a patient because of opportunity cost. It might crowd out a letter from someone better suited to evaluate me. Most schools seem to limit the number of letters you can send, and you'd be better served to have professors, supervisors, etc. evaluate you.

I think that it would be appropriate to tell the patient that the medical school application process is a very structured thing, and that schools are very specific about from whom they want letters of recommendation. But express how grateful you are for the sentiment and support. Maybe ask if they will write you personally a letter of encouragement that you can keep with you to remind you why you are going into medicine. This will satisfy their need to do a kindness for you, and it will be something that is really meaningful to you and fulfills the purpose they intended for it.

I have a little handful of letters written to me by patients, who were thanking me for the care that I gave them, that I keep among my most prized possessions. I don't sit around reading them all the time, patting myself on the back. But occasionally, when I've had one of those days, where I've seen a little too much tragedy or felt like I couldn't do quite enough to help someone, I do look back on those times when I did manage to touch someone's life in a strongly positive way.

Not everything has to lead to a particular goal. You can do extracurricular activities for the joy they give you, not just to fill checkboxes on an app. And you can accept a letter of support that is for your eyes only. These private things may not contribute directly to your bid for admission, but they do contribute to your sincerity and depth as a person, and that makes them worthwhile.

 

[Vain Brother]

fully agree with @gyngyn. ask your supervisor to write you the letter and mention this patient in particular. this kind of specificity in a letter is exactly what med schools are looking for!

 

[gyngyn]

What's more common, bad letters or Institutional Action?

Letters that mindfully describe undesirable behaviors are as uncommon as IA's. Letters that damn with faint praise are common.