Pay difference between tier 1 and tier 3 medical school students?

[DrBoost]

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Hey everyone i just have a simple question in regards to the money someone can make from an MD degree from a top 20 school vs the bottom of the list medical school in the U.S. I know business schools and law schools work like that kids from the top 10 programs have significantly more chances of making money , am not saying that tier 2 and tier 3 schools students don't make money just talking about chances. So is it how it works with med school too? i.e an MD from NYU, Columbia, Yale, Michigan, Cornell, Hopkins VS state schools or other unranked MD programs in U.S.....if both students pursue the surgery field lets say orthopedic will they have a significantly high pay difference?an average career in orthopedic ranges from 372,400 to $512,500 according to AAMC will a state school or lower ranked school MD make less than average? And i know a lot of things come into factor like getting a residency in that field, but lets just stick to assuming both students get into surgery residency.....in short the income projections that people assume or AAMC lists are not limited to top schools are they? Also when a hospital is into hiring Docs right out of residency will they base the pay packages on where they went to school and completed their residency?

thanks

 

[Concubine]

Hey everyone i just have a simple question in regards to the money someone can make from an MD degree from a top 20 school vs the bottom of the list medical school in the U.S. I know business schools and law schools work like that kids from the top 10 programs have significantly more chances of making money , am not saying that tier 2 and tier 3 schools students don't make money just talking about chances. So is it how it works with med school too? i.e an MD from NYU, Columbia, Yale, Michigan, Cornell, Hopkins VS state schools or other unranked MD programs in U.S.....if both students pursue the surgery field lets say orthopedic will they have a significantly high pay difference?an average career in orthopedic ranges from 372,400 to $512,500 according to AAMC will a state school or lower ranked school MD make less than average? And i know a lot of things come into factor like getting a residency in that field, but lets just stick to assuming both students get into surgery residency.....in short the income projections that people assume or AAMC lists are not limited to top schools are they?

thanks

I would venture to guess that there is no significant difference.

 

[MilkmanAl]

The tiering system doesn't really exist for med schools unless you're a US News editor. The pre-clinical education is essentially the same everywhere, and the clinical years are pretty similar. Everyone's going to be making the same cash, and that applies to DO's, too. (What tier are they?)

 

[plauto]

same thing. The only difference is made by how good you are, your manners with patients and colleagues, where you practice, your ability to market yourself, and, last but not least, how much or how little you want to work.

 

[cleothecat]

Sure. Especially if you are so high on yourself and go academic instead of Private Practice.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Hey everyone i just have a simple question in regards to the money someone can make from an MD degree from a top 20 school vs the bottom of the list medical school in the U.S. I know business schools and law schools work like that kids from the top 10 programs have significantly more chances of making money , am not saying that tier 2 and tier 3 schools students don't make money just talking about chances. So is it how it works with med school too? i.e an MD from NYU, Columbia, Yale, Michigan, Cornell, Hopkins VS state schools or other unranked MD programs in U.S.....if both students pursue the surgery field lets say orthopedic will they have a significantly high pay difference?an average career in orthopedic ranges from 372,400 to $512,500 according to AAMC will a state school or lower ranked school MD make less than average? And i know a lot of things come into factor like getting a residency in that field, but lets just stick to assuming both students get into surgery residency.....in short the income projections that people assume or AAMC lists are not limited to top schools are they? Also when a hospital is into hiring Docs right out of residency will they base the pay packages on where they went to school and completed their residency?

thanks

the only possible difference is if you have two applicants to an orthopedic residency who are identical in every possible way except the school they are coming from, then the one from a "better" school might have a very small edge over the other applicant. Assuming both get a residency somewhere, and both become orthopods, then the determining factors of how much money you make are your medical and business skills.

Incidentally, many people who chose to go to "better" medical schools or residencies want it for the prestige that will help them land academic positions somewhere, which often times means lower pay then the person who went to a no-name school/residency and started a private practice that blossomed.

 

[Rogue Synapse]

I would say your choice of med school, as long as it is an accredited MD program, has virtually zero impact on your eventual earning potential. Med school is very unlike law school in that everything is nationally standardized rather than standardized on the state level.

 

[sunset823]

Incidentally, many people who chose to go to "better" medical schools or residencies want it for the prestige that will help them land academic positions somewhere, which often times means lower pay then the person who went to a no-name school/residency and started a private practice that blossomed.

this - and it depends on the field - ortho is distinctly non-academic, the vast majority who do it go private practice, and at that point, if you are an MD from podunk med school (if there is any such thing) who also has an MBA and knows how to handle money and people, you'll make more money than the next guy who went to Harvard but doesn't have business skills

some fields are inherently academic (radiation oncology probably the top here, ~40% in there have PhDs, but also neuro, psych, IM and Peds to a certain extent) - for radonc, you tend to see people only from top 10 schools, and they make less money than a diagnostic radiologist in private practice from a non-ranked school.

In sum - if you want to do academics (as I do, desperately), look at rankings, or if you can't, work your butt off in med school and get some research experience. If you don't, it doesn't matter at all where you go to school.

Incidentally, this also goes for law school to a certain extent, I have friends who want to teach after law school, and you pretty much HAVE to come out of a top 10 program to be a law professor, no exceptions. A low-paying Supreme Court clerkship also requires a top-tier program. They tend to make less money than those at firms, though I'm guessing in the end the people who go to white shoe law firms from the top 10 schools make up for their colleagues lack of earning potential who are in clerkships and academia - also the fact that, at this point, a higher proportion of people from top programs have any job at all compared to low tier law schools.

 

[flip26]

Hey everyone i just have a simple question in regards to the money someone can make from an MD degree from a top 20 school vs the bottom of the list medical school in the U.S. I know business schools and law schools work like that kids from the top 10 programs have significantly more chances of making money , am not saying that tier 2 and tier 3 schools students don't make money just talking about chances. So is it how it works with med school too? i.e an MD from NYU, Columbia, Yale, Michigan, Cornell, Hopkins VS state schools or other unranked MD programs in U.S.....if both students pursue the surgery field lets say orthopedic will they have a significantly high pay difference?an average career in orthopedic ranges from 372,400 to $512,500 according to AAMC will a state school or lower ranked school MD make less than average? And i know a lot of things come into factor like getting a residency in that field, but lets just stick to assuming both students get into surgery residency.....in short the income projections that people assume or AAMC lists are not limited to top schools are they? Also when a hospital is into hiring Docs right out of residency will they base the pay packages on where they went to school and completed their residency?

thanks

In a nutshell, no, that is not how it works for med school.

Law and biz school graduate compensation is competitive - employers can bill out the services of the grads of higher ranked schools at higher rates, and thus they can pay thos grads more.

Physician compensation is highly uniform and regulated, dictated by insurance reimbursement, or said differently, it is not competitive (docs can't charge more than the insurance will reimburse just because said doc is from JHU - the insurers do not attach any $ bonus for grads of Top 20 med schools).

 

[womp]

If you look at only the same specialty, then students from the top tier research schools might actually on average have a lower salary than mid-tier schools, since they're likely more research minded and see the prestige of academia and research as more important than money. Many of the mid-tier schools are state schools with considerably lower tuition, so they might select for more pragmatic students.

 

[vanslix]

If you look at only the same specialty, then students from the top tier research schools might actually on average have a lower salary than mid-tier schools, since they're likely more research minded and see the prestige of academia and research as more important than money. Many of the mid-tier schools are state schools with considerably lower tuition, so they might select for more pragmatic students.

You also have to factor in the debt incurred of those top tier schools versus a state school. You're going to save a lot of money by going to a lower tier school. Earning potential is going to have very little to do with which school you went to.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

You also have to factor in the debt incurred of those top tier schools versus a state school. You're going to save a lot of money by going to a lower tier school. Earning potential is going to have very little to do with which school you went to.

Not necessarily. There are several "prestigious" schools that are also very affordable (state schools or schools with generous financial aid) and several "low tier" schools that are private and very very expensive.

 

[littlealex]

Going to a lower tier school will not affect your pay in a specialty. It may affect your chances of getting into a particular specialty.

 

[Healer of Ills]

Going to a lower tier school will not affect your pay in a specialty. It may affect your chances of getting into a particular specialty.

That seems to be the case. It is not necessarily that top tier schools have a better education system or a better ciriculum of some sort. The major factor however, is that most prestigious top tier schools are generally known to be well connected to the best hospitals and residency programs in the country.

Most likely, going to a top tier school will give you a better shot at desirable residency programs with all else constant

 

[vickpick]

not very significant.. but it depends on how good a bargainer u are.. if u apply to 3-4 jobs then, u can show employers.. other offers and eaily get a high pay..

other than that, I think 3rd tier pay rate might be lower than 1 tier pay rate by 10,000 a year.. which is not much since u'll mostlikely be making more than 150,000 anyways

 

[LadyWolverine]

How much you will make in the future depends much more on your own personal long-term planning, work ethic, and business saavy than on pedigree or name. This holds true for all fields, not only medicine. While, for example, a pedigree law or B-school can land you a gig with a top firm or company (which is essentially "guaranteed money" as long as you are willing to work for it), there are plenty of folks from other training programs with sharp entrepreneurial and networking skills, great connections, and perhaps even the capital from the beginning who end up becoming incredibly successful. The difference is that these folks typically have a more definitive plan in place when they start out than the student who goes to a top 10 law school without any clear direction other than to summer at a big firm and hopefully get picked up as an associate after graduation.

Medical school isn't that different. Lots of medical students are similar to the hypothetical law student mentioned above - the primary objective is to get into and through med school, hopefully land a residency in a high-paying field, and worry about the future when they get there. They just assume that, because medicine has traditionally been a high-paying field, that just by being part of "the club" on the other side, that guarantees high lifetime earnings. And there's probably some truth to that. However, the people who will be extrememly financially successful are people with 1) a strong work ethic, 2) business saavy, 3) networking skills, 4) pre-existing wealth, support, and other benefits, and/or 5) a knack for having uncannily accurate long-term forsight. One or all of those traits, in some combination, is what sets apart the folks destined for success vs. the folks who are just along for the ride and hoping to get lucky (many of whom will). While it helps to become a spine surgeon or ophthalmologist, there's no reason you can't become wealthy as a pediatrician, family physisican, or general internist. All you need is a detailed understanding of how the system currently works and where there are gaps, holes, and room for improvement, a novel idea, a receptive target demographic, the willingness to be flexible, and sound financial planning (whatever that means to you - DIY or hire an expert, I guess it depends on your experience and level of comfort).

 

[flip26]

Going to a lower tier school will not affect your pay in a specialty. It may affect your chances of getting into a particular specialty.

If you change "particular specialty" in your sentence to "particular residency programs," then I might be in agreement.

Otherwise, name any of the high paying specialties and you will find plenty of practitioners from the full range of med schools, including lower tier / unranked MD, DO, and, *gasp* even Caribbean schools...

 

[surftheiop]

I suspect that on average people who go to the middle 60% of medschools make the most money.

People in the top %20 are more likely to do academics/research, while people at the bottom %20 are more likely to do primary care.

Obviously this doesnt apply to all students and there are many exceptions both ways, but if you looked at averages I would think this is what they would would show.

 

[Law2Doc]

I suspect that on average people who go to the middle 60% of medschools make the most money.

People in the top %20 are more likely to do academics/research, while people at the bottom %20 are more likely to do primary care.

Obviously this doesnt apply to all students and there are many exceptions both ways, but if you looked at averages I would think this is what they would would show.

Agree. There is no way it breaks down by "rank", it breaks down somewhat by what people ultimately decide to go into. As such it depends more on what people want to do in a given class than the school name. If you have a class full of budding pediatricians you are going to have a low income class, regardless of the rank of the program. If everybody wants derm or plastics it would swing the other way. If everybody wants to go into academics/research, they won't be that rich. So really, the groups in the middle with a mix of private practitioners and specialists along with the budding academics and peds/psych types are going to have a healthy average.

 

[Law2Doc]

Going to a lower tier school will not affect your pay in a specialty. It may affect your chances of getting into a particular specialty.

As discussed in many many threads, tier of school is not on the list of things residency directors consider, and school name is very very very low on the list of things they consider important. Whether school pedigree affects your chances in terms of academics is possibly a different discussion, but in terms of things like getting derm or rads, I think most folks at the resident level would say that they'd rather have had higher board scores and a lower ranked school name (assuming US allo) than the converse. But I think the point is that to the extent higher ranked people may go into academics over private practice kind possibly nullifies any income advantage suggested of higher "rank" schools.

The mid ranked school person who goes into derm to make bank frequently does better financially than the Harvard kid who goes into academic derm to study some rare skin disorder of cave-dwellers in Asia. Or Dr Rey of Dr 90210 fame, a Tufts med grad, is making a lot more money in plastic surgery (and ancillary businesses) than most of his counterparts who went to higher ranked med schools.

 

[The Enchanter]

You also have to factor in the debt incurred of those top tier schools versus a state school. You're going to save a lot of money by going to a lower tier school.

Absolutely not true. Looking at US News and World Report, here are some schools that graduate students with the least amount of debt:

2nd lowest = Stanford
5th lowest = Baylor
7th lowest = Mayo
8th lowest = UCSF
11th lowest = Duke
15th lowest = Johns Hopkins

"Upper tier" schools are the ones with money and in general, the ones that give good financial aid (obviously, there are exceptions to this generalization). Often, it is the "lower tier" schools that have fewer resources and charge higher tuition and provide less financial aid.

 

[vladmoney]

Absolutely not true. Looking at US News and World Report, here are some schools that graduate students with the least amount of debt:

2nd lowest = Stanford
5th lowest = Baylor
7th lowest = Mayo
8th lowest = UCSF
11th lowest = Duke
15th lowest = Johns Hopkins

"Upper tier" schools are the ones with money and in general, the ones that give good financial aid (obviously, there are exceptions to this generalization). Often, it is the "lower tier" schools that have fewer resources and charge higher tuition and provide less financial aid.

That debt thing is always misleading because you know there are some rich people who go to these top tier schools and have their parents pay for everything. Therefore, when they get out, they have no debt and it seems like the schools is more affordable.

From what I heard higher tier med school will give you a better chance at some of the more prestigious residential spots. That being said, I don't believe its that much of a difference.

 

[alibai3ah]

That debt thing is always misleading because you know there are some rich people who go to these top tier schools and have their parents pay for everything. Therefore, when they get out, they have no debt and it seems like the schools is more affordable.

From what I heard higher tier med school will give you a better chance at some of the more prestigious residential spots. That being said, I don't believe its that much of a difference.

Agreed. Stanford's tuition is atrocious! While they may give out a great deal of aid, it is still a very expensive school. And being from Palo Alto, it is considered a "rich person" school. The "poorer" students end up at UC's.