Pay for associate dentists?

[experiment626]

Seems like every office I visited had their own unique pay systems. What's the typical pay for an associate? 30% production? 30% collection? Base pay included? What is a fair deal?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[FanOfCostco]

Are you from the 626???

 

[experiment626]

Nope I'm in Washington State! My username was based off Stitch.

Are you from the 626???

 

[Cold Front]

Seems like every office I visited had their own unique pay systems. What's the typical pay for an associate? 30% production? 30% collection? Base pay included? What is a fair deal?

I pay my associate 35% production. He is very experienced and I chose to pay him more for being less needy, managing his own staff, and clinically more competent.

 

[pubhealthdent]

Seems like every office I visited had their own unique pay systems. What's the typical pay for an associate? 30% production? 30% collection? Base pay included? What is a fair deal?

Always shoot for production instead of collection. but if a place is going to pay you on collection make sure you ask what they're collection rate is. If its low (anything below 90 or 95%), be prepared to not earn as much. But 30% production is pretty standard for a graduating dentist. Base pay or daily guarantee is always helpful n especially when first starting out. Also be sure to ask if you'll be paying any portion of the lab fee - it's typical to pay the same percentage as your pay. so in your case you could expect to pay 30% of all your lab fees

 

[SigmaFS]

I pay my associate 35% production. He is very experienced and I chose to pay him more for being less needy, managing his own staff, and clinically more competent.

35% of production. You must be doing well or you're quite generous.

 

[Cold Front]

35% of production. You must be doing well or you're quite generous.

I pay that high as insurance policy to keep a competent associate long term. Unfortunately, if you want “everything” you need from an associate, and stop the revolving door, it will cost you. The cost associated with losing a good associate is very high, and under appreciated by most employer dentists.

 

[quack23]

I pay my associate 35% production. He is very experienced and I chose to pay him more for being less needy, managing his own staff, and clinically more competent.

Assuming you have your associate pay 35% lab fee, do you deduct that from their total collections or after the 35% collection is calculated?

 

[theleatherwalle]

I always use this chart

$450 a day-super saturated metros
$500 a day-most metros
$600 a day-1 hour outside of most metros
$700 a day-2 hours outside of civilization.

multiple by 240 and you're done

The rest of collection, production, %, lab fees are all variable, but the base rate helps you establish a good guideline

 

[FanOfCostco]

I always use this chart

$450 a day-super saturated metros
$500 a day-most metros
$600 a day-1 hour outside of most metros
$700 a day-2 hours outside of civilization.

multiple by 240 and you're done

The rest of collection, production, %, lab fees are all variable, but the base rate helps you establish a good guideline

What are metros?

 

[theleatherwalle]

Supersaturated places being LA, NYC, Chicago, Houston, ect

Metros being cities that desirable:
metro populations of a 1 million plus
being near a dental school
being an area that is considered hip or cool

1 hour outside of these places is basically the suburbs.

2 hours outside of civilization is the middle of nowhere

most dentists fit into the first 3 categories.

 

[Cold Front]

I always use this chart

$450 a day-super saturated metros
$500 a day-most metros
$600 a day-1 hour outside of most metros
$700 a day-2 hours outside of civilization.

multiple by 240 and you're done

The rest of collection, production, %, lab fees are all variable, but the base rate helps you establish a good guideline

There are a lot of factors that goes into that chart. Age of dentist, his/her team, office supplies, demographics, insurance types, and bunch of other stuff.

My associate is a 50 year old male dentist, no debt, humble guy with no huge financial obligations at this stage in his career - kids all grown up and is an empty nester, and watches out for his body from posture to stress.

 

[mmc12]

A lot of places in the super saturated areas don’t even offer a base
/minimum salary. You could technically get paid only 50-100 dollars a day if few patients show up (though other days are obviously a lot better).

 

[321931]

A lot of places in the super saturated areas don’t even offer a base
/minimum salary. You could technically get paid only 50-100 dollars a day if few patients show up (though other days are obviously a lot better).

You would be better off as a hygienist to be honest.

 

[FanOfCostco]

You would be better off as a hygienist to be honest.

Medicaid = I went to dental school to be a hygienist

 

[autoclavemonkey]

New grad in NYC here. Here are some of the offers I received:

400minimum/40% production whichever is higher - NYC metro
600 minimum/35% production whichever is higher - 30min from manhattan
~120k salary/year with full benefits - NYC metro

But It depends on your location really. I would choose something with daily minimum ~$500/32%+ production, whichever is higher. As an associate, you don't want to pay the price for having an empty schedule. Also busy doesn't always mean productive. I always asked for what kind of insurance they take. With HMO/Medicaid/poorly negotiated reimbursement rate, you may struggle to even go beyond $500 daily minimum. I would definitely talk to your mentors and friends around the area to see if the offer you got is feasible. When interviewers asked me how much I expect my compensation to be, I gave them a number that I came up with based on my expenses (rent, living, loans, savings, etc).

Lastly, read your contracts(if you really want the job...I wouldn't really want to sign anything that would limit my future potential at this point.) carefully. My friend was offered $700 minimum vs 35%production verbally but his contract actually said that 35% production will kick in once he sees more than 15 patients a day. After his introductory period of 2 months, his 35% production was yielding him ~$300/day even when he was seeing close to 20 patients. Guess what? he had to give them something ridiculous like 45 days notice to quit or otherwise he would need to pay the practice $500/day.

 

[pubhealthdent]

Medicaid = I went to dental school to be a hygienist

This comment makes no sense

 

[321931]

New grad in NYC here. Here are some of the offers I received:

400minimum/40% production whichever is higher - NYC metro
600 minimum/35% production whichever is higher - 30min from manhattan
~120k salary/year with full benefits - NYC metro

But It depends on your location really. I would choose something with daily minimum ~$500/32%+ production, whichever is higher. As an associate, you don't want to pay the price for having an empty schedule. Also busy doesn't always mean productive. I always asked for what kind of insurance they take. With HMO/Medicaid/poorly negotiated reimbursement rate, you may struggle to even go beyond $500 daily minimum. I would definitely talk to your mentors and friends around the area to see if the offer you got is feasible. When interviewers asked me how much I expect my compensation to be, I gave them a number that I came up with based on my expenses (rent, living, loans, savings, etc).

Lastly, read your contracts(if you really want the job...I wouldn't really want to sign anything that would limit my future potential at this point.) carefully. My friend was offered $700 minimum vs 35%production verbally but his contract actually said that 35% production will kick in once he sees more than 15 patients a day. After his introductory period of 2 months, his 35% production was yielding him ~$300/day even when he was seeing close to 20 patients. Guess what? he had to give them something ridiculous like 45 days notice to quit or otherwise he would need to pay the practice $500/day.

Crazy. My hygienists make 450 a day guaranteed. Doesn't matter if no show, or theres holes on the schedule.

2 year Hygiene School. 12,000$ tuition. lol.

 

[charlestweed]

Crazy. My hygienists make 450 a day guaranteed. Doesn't matter if no show, or theres holes on the schedule.

2 year Hygiene School. 12,000$ tuition. lol.

That's because he is practicing in NYC. If he moves to your area, he will probably make a lot more than what you currently pay your hygienist. The hygienists in NYC probably make less there also.

He is a new grad. This is his first job. With his DDS/DMD degree, he will be able to own his own office, be his own boss, and will earn great income like you. Your hygienist can only work for someone else for the rest of her life. I'd rather be a dentist with higher debt than being a hygienist with $12k debt.

 

[Rambunctious]

That's because he is practicing in NYC. If he moves to your area, he will probably make a lot more than what you currently pay your hygienist. The hygienists in NYC probably make less there also.

He is a new grad. This is his first job. With his DDS/DMD degree, he will be able to own his own office, be his own boss, and will earn great income like you. Your hygienist can only work for someone else for the rest of her life. I'd rather be a dentist with higher debt than being a hygienist with $12k debt.

Exactly! It's all about location. There's probably a hygienist somewhere making more than them when they were a new grad.

 

[autoclavemonkey]

Crazy. My hygienists make 450 a day guaranteed. Doesn't matter if no show, or theres holes on the schedule.

2 year Hygiene School. 12,000$ tuition. lol.

Hygienists in NYC don't make more than 50-60k a year in NYC (my friend was a hygienist). She changed her career because she can't live off of her salary in the city. She is making more money now as a secretary at a corporate office. It's the sad truth. Same with how it is for associate dentists here. I'd be surprised to find anyone paying new grad more than $600 minimum in NYC metro. And you'd be lucky to find a clinic that allows you to have clinical freedom so that you can go beyond your $500 minimum.

 

[mmc12]

Hygienists in NYC don't make more than 50-60k a year in NYC (my friend was a hygienist). She changed her career because she can't live off of her salary in the city. She is making more money now as a secretary at a corporate office. It's the sad truth. Same with how it is for associate dentists here. I'd be surprised to find anyone paying new grad more than $600 minimum in NYC metro. And you'd be lucky to find a clinic that allows you to have clinical freedom so that you can go beyond your $500 minimum.

I worked at a Medicaid mill in the Bronx where the dentists generally made around 1000 a day. Though they saw a lot of patients and did many fillings in one visit...

 

[autoclavemonkey]

I worked at a Medicaid mill in the Bronx where the dentists generally made around 1000 a day. Though they saw a lot of patients and did many fillings in one visit...

That's awesome. But another medicaid mill I interviewed at asked what my compensation expectations were. When I told them $600/day, the manager said I'd need to see 23-25 patients a day. So I don't even know how that $1000/day math works tbh and isn't the medicaid direct restoration reimbursement really terrible?

 

[mmc12]

That's awesome. But another medicaid mill I interviewed at asked what my compensation expectations were. When I told them $600/day, the manager said I'd need to see 23-25 patients a day. So I don't even know how that $1000/day math works tbh and isn't the medicaid direct restoration reimbursement really terrible?

The dentists would do like 5+ fillings on each patient visit. The dentists also did molar RCTs but tended not to do a lot of extractions. Prob saw around 15 patients a day. The office was mostly Medicaid and some PPOs. No HMOs, which pay even less than Medicaid.

 

[321931]

The dentists would do like 5+ fillings on each patient visit. The dentists also did molar RCTs but tended not to do a lot of extractions. Prob saw around 15 patients a day. The office was mostly Medicaid and some PPOs. No HMOs, which pay even less than Medicaid.

Dam. I do 1-2 crowns a day and 3-5 fills a day.

You work way to hard in NYC

 

[autoclavemonkey]

The dentists would do like 5+ fillings on each patient visit. The dentists also did molar RCTs but tended not to do a lot of extractions. Prob saw around 15 patients a day. The office was mostly Medicaid and some PPOs. No HMOs, which pay even less than Medicaid.

I see it's probably the extractions and dentures that are yielding the high production. Those tend to have the best reimbursement rates for medicaid.