PBL at USC

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littleteeth

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I am currently deciding whether to apply to USC-- one thing holding me back is not knowing whether PBL is right for me, since I've heard many negative comments about it here on SDN.
Would any current dental students at USC mind sharing their thoughts on PBL at USC? Thanks!
 
I am currently deciding whether to apply to USC-- one thing holding me back is not knowing whether PBL is right for me, since I've heard many negative comments about it here on SDN.
Would any current dental students at USC mind sharing their thoughts on PBL at USC? Thanks!

I went to USC Dental from 2010-2014. PBL is the worst. You basically teach yourself everything. If you are looking to becoming a great General Dentist and don't plan to specialize, go to USC Dental because they emphasize more on the clinical aspect than the didactic aspect of dentistry. Your clinical skills will be by far superior than any other dental school. If you are looking to specialize after dental school, don't go to USC Dental, because it is hard to get good grades under the PBL method. So it all depends on what you want to do with your dental degree after school. Hope that helps 😉
 
I went to USC Dental from 2010-2014. PBL is the worst. You basically teach yourself everything. If you are looking to becoming a great General Dentist and don't plan to specialize, go to USC Dental because they emphasize more on the clinical aspect than the didactic aspect of dentistry. Your clinical skills will be by far superior than any other dental school. If you are looking to specialize after dental school, don't go to USC Dental, because it is hard to get good grades under the PBL method. So it all depends on what you want to do with your dental degree after school. Hope that helps 😉

Hi! I'm thinking about specializing and received an interview invitation to USC today. Can you elaborate on why it's hard to get good grades with the PBL method? Thanks!
 
Hi! I'm thinking about specializing and received an interview invitation to USC today. Can you elaborate on why it's hard to get good grades with the PBL method? Thanks!
It is difficult because you choose what you want to learn based on cases provided by your professors as if you’re seeing a patient, and have to know EVERYTHING about it to test well. If your patient has certain symptoms, you have to read tons of physiology, biochemistry of drugs used to treat it, etc. You learn a lot, but the information you will see on a test is not directly presented to you in a lecture format. That being said, PBL curriculums get you tons and tons of clinical experience and knowledge.
 
Here's some info for those who are applying in later cycles and are truly clueless about the PBL process. Truth be told, it's very difficult to advise other students on whether or not they will enjoy the PBL process or not. Everyone has a different learning style and what I consider helpful/useful may not apply to you. Take every piece of advice that's given to you with a grain of salt, do your research, and figure out if the facts of PBL align with your learning style. With that being said, here are some facts about PBL:

1. Yes, you do "teach" yourself. The cases have anywhere between 4-6 parts where you dissect every part of the case, come up with a list of information that you need to learn, create a learning need centered around the information that you need to know, and study for the multiple choice tests as well as an image focused test where you're asked what an image is/asked to label it.

2. PBL is really what you make of it. If you learning need is on "viral life cycle" for example; you may spend a few hours on the learning need or you may spend 5 minutes randomly copy-pasting websites with incorrect information. If you complete your learning needs in 5 minutes and don't spend time reading the learning needs of those in your group, then you really cannot complain about the process because you're not doing it right.

3. If you like to view patients in a more holistic view, if you like to solve problems, if you're a self-guided learner who likes to do your own research and come up with ways to learn new topics, then PBL is for you. If you want to go through dental school being spoon-fed the science courses, then PBL is not for you (and that's ok)!

Personally, I truly dislike lecture because I think of it as passive learning and I basically have to do double the work trying to re-teach myself what my professor stood up and lectured on. In undergrad, I supplemented lectures with my own notes from books and online vids (shoutout OsmosisMed). People often forget that even when the course is lecture based, the exams may be completely off! I truly enjoy PBL because of the flexibility and because of the creativity that it allows me when learning. There should be a distinction between undergraduate and graduate education - and I believe that PBL really offers us a new perspective on education. It fosters life-long learning where we are expected to find the answer (which is what will be required of you in the real world), rather than just spoken to and expected to memorize information.

Again, take my advice with a grain of salt & shoot me a message if you'd like to discuss further. Just don't believe those who say that PBL is just "paying to teach yourself." This couldn't be further than the truth. I'd rather spend my days truly learning information on my own than sitting in lecture and listening to someone speak, only to go home and do the real learning myself, but that's just me.
 
This PBL thing seems horrible. With the ultra-expensive cost of USC, why do people still choose to go to this school?
Maybe it's the only school they get into? Maybe it's a legacy thing? Maybe they have family money and want to be a Trojan no matter what?
 
Hi! I'm thinking about specializing and received an interview invitation to USC today. Can you elaborate on why it's hard to get good grades with the PBL method? Thanks!

The things you learn in PBL don't directly relate to what you will see on the exam. You are left wondering/lost on what topics to study for on the exam. I never studied for PBL tests because I always found myself lost on what to study. I focused more on the clinical aspect.
 
Here's some info for those who are applying in later cycles and are truly clueless about the PBL process. Truth be told, it's very difficult to advise other students on whether or not they will enjoy the PBL process or not. Everyone has a different learning style and what I consider helpful/useful may not apply to you. Take every piece of advice that's given to you with a grain of salt, do your research, and figure out if the facts of PBL align with your learning style. With that being said, here are some facts about PBL:

1. Yes, you do "teach" yourself. The cases have anywhere between 4-6 parts where you dissect every part of the case, come up with a list of information that you need to learn, create a learning need centered around the information that you need to know, and study for the multiple choice tests as well as an image focused test where you're asked what an image is/asked to label it.

2. PBL is really what you make of it. If you learning need is on "viral life cycle" for example; you may spend a few hours on the learning need or you may spend 5 minutes randomly copy-pasting websites with incorrect information. If you complete your learning needs in 5 minutes and don't spend time reading the learning needs of those in your group, then you really cannot complain about the process because you're not doing it right.

3. If you like to view patients in a more holistic view, if you like to solve problems, if you're a self-guided learner who likes to do your own research and come up with ways to learn new topics, then PBL is for you. If you want to go through dental school being spoon-fed the science courses, then PBL is not for you (and that's ok)!

Personally, I truly dislike lecture because I think of it as passive learning and I basically have to do double the work trying to re-teach myself what my professor stood up and lectured on. In undergrad, I supplemented lectures with my own notes from books and online vids (shoutout OsmosisMed). People often forget that even when the course is lecture based, the exams may be completely off! I truly enjoy PBL because of the flexibility and because of the creativity that it allows me when learning. There should be a distinction between undergraduate and graduate education - and I believe that PBL really offers us a new perspective on education. It fosters life-long learning where we are expected to find the answer (which is what will be required of you in the real world), rather than just spoken to and expected to memorize information.

Again, take my advice with a grain of salt & shoot me a message if you'd like to discuss further. Just don't believe those who say that PBL is just "paying to teach yourself." This couldn't be further than the truth. I'd rather spend my days truly learning information on my own than sitting in lecture and listening to someone speak, only to go home and do the real learning myself, but that's just me.

How many more hours of work are we talking here with PBL? More or relatively same as Lectjre?
 
How many more hours of work are we talking here with PBL? More or relatively same as Lectjre?
You spend Way less time in PBL than lecture ... PBL is a waste of time. Don't stress about it. Just a way USC can save money so they don't have to hire teachers to lecture.
 
You spend Way less time in PBL than lecture ... PBL is a waste of time. Don't stress about it. Just a way USC can save money so they don't have to hire teachers to lecture.
My thoughts exactly.... what’s your thoughts on those schools that are 100% PBL based? Would they be way harder if attended? I don’t think I will. If that’s someone’s only acceptance (an 100% PBL school) would you say they might as well not go? lol
 
My thoughts exactly.... what’s your thoughts on those schools that are 100% PBL based? Would they be way harder if attended? I don’t think I will. If that’s someone’s only acceptance (an 100% PBL school) would you say they might as well not go? lol
If I got into another school that was not PBL based I would have gone there , but I only got accepted to USC...so I didn't have a choice. If you only get into a school that is 100% PBL based I would still go ... regardless, you will come out of there as a dentist which is the main goal. However, for the high tuition USC charges , its not worth it to go there. Definitely choose another school if you get in.
 
If I got into another school that was not PBL based I would have gone there , but I only got accepted to USC...so I didn't have a choice. If you only get into a school that is 100% PBL based I would still go ... regardless, you will come out of there as a dentist which is the main goal. However, for the high tuition USC charges , its not worth it to go there. Definitely choose another school if you get in.
Ok, gotcha... so would would you say PBL students suffer more through the rigor? Or they both have it just as rough?
 
Ok, gotcha... so would would you say PBL students suffer more through the rigor? Or they both have it just as rough?
All I can say is that at USC dental you don't really have to stress out on the didactic portion. You need to focus more on the clinical aspect. You will definitely spend more time in the lab/clinic than in the Library at USC dental.
 
If we don’t know what’s going to be on the test using the PBL style.... how can we prepare for the board?
 
If we don’t know what’s going to be on the test using the PBL style.... how can we prepare for the board?
You know the topics for the exam (i.e. lung anatomy/physiology, liver pathology, etc.). Learn everything in as much detail as reasonably possible and you'll be fine. Having a decent understanding but not knowing the details will be enough to get you a C+. Put in the effort and you'll get your A and learn a lot in the process.

As far as I know, the new INDBE is filled with case/clinic-based questions and our exam questions resemble those. None of us have taken the INDBE yet but I'm sure we'll be fine. Regardless, the vast majority of students in every class have passed the traditional NBDEs despite PBL.

The only thing you should worry about is the tuition, lol.
 
You know the topics for the exam (i.e. lung anatomy/physiology, liver pathology, etc.). Learn everything in as much detail as reasonably possible and you'll be fine. Having a decent understanding but not knowing the details will be enough to get you a C+. Put in the effort and you'll get your A and learn a lot in the process.

As far as I know, the new INDBE is filled with case/clinic-based questions and our exam questions resemble those. None of us have taken the INDBE yet but I'm sure we'll be fine. Regardless, the vast majority of students in every class have passed the traditional NBDEs despite PBL.

The only thing you should worry about is the tuition, lol.
Do you have any tips for how to "worry" about the tuition if it is the only school you get accepted to?
 
Do you have any tips for how to "worry" about the tuition if it is the only school you get accepted to?
To be brutally honest, 700k+ for a dental degree is not even remotely worth it, even if it's your only acceptance. Trying to mitigate any "worry" about this would only be putting your head in the sand.
 
Do you have any tips for how to "worry" about the tuition if it is the only school you get accepted to?
You're going to be ~$450K in the hole after four years from tuition alone. The interest rates on federal student loans are borderline usury. This isn't something you're going to be able to pay off in a few years, especially as a general dentist in a saturated market. It's important you understand that.

If you do decide to commit, cut your living expenses and don't rely on loan forgiveness. Pay off as much debt as possible every month.
 
You're going to be ~$450K in the hole after four years from tuition alone. The interest rates on federal student loans are borderline usury. This isn't something you're going to be able to pay off in a few years, especially as a general dentist in a saturated market. It's important you understand that.

If you do decide to commit, cut your living expenses and don't rely on loan forgiveness. Pay off as much debt as possible every month.
Would you recommend paying towards the interested monthly while in dental school? When you say a saturated market, do you mean nationally or in LA/SoCal?
 
Would you recommend paying towards the interested monthly while in dental school? When you say a saturated market, do you mean nationally or in LA/SoCal?
I'm not sure how you'll be able to without an income. Most dental students don't have time for a part-time job. I'd personally focus on getting the most out of your education. Use most of whatever free time you have to practice, volunteer, shadow, etc. Graduating as a competent clinician will help you a lot more in the long run than having a (likely insignificant) head start in paying off your debt. That's just my opinion, though. If you can squeeze out the time and energy to do both, then more power to you.

I meant Los Angeles, but I'm confident it's the same story in all the other cities.
 
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