PBL or Lecture?

[deleted212936]

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During my interview at a med school, I got to participate in a mock PBL session. Before, I always felt that I wasn't good at studying in groups. But when I experienced it, I actually found this studying method very practical and enjoyable (and everyone in the group was very pleasant).
I'm thinking if I should choose PBL or Lecture when school starts. In PBL, I'll get to see how didactic learning translates into practical use, which is awesome! It's like you are taught to be a doctor from the first day.

But there are some things I have to think about. I'm looking for feedbacks (preferably from med students) about certain aspects of PBL, how it work/does not work for you:
1/ PBL students are to take complete control of what material we should learn, what are the possibilities that you miss/neglect some stuff that other med students should know?
2/ Is there any statistics on board passing rates of PBL vs. students in traditional lecture?
3/ etc.

 

[Hoody]

lecture ftw.

 

[mcgyver]

lecture ftw.

med school lectures for the first 2 years are almost completely useless. but that's part of the reason why they're good: you don't have to go to them and can just study on your own.

PBL is helpful i agree but i won't want to have it everyday. in stony brook lectures are primary but are accompanied by pbl sessions. i think that works pretty well.

 

[KnuxNole]

Lecture by a longshot.

We had some PBL cases and to be honest, they felt like the biggest waste of time. I learn material better just by reading through notes, not looking up random crap for hours. Maybe it depends on the school, but the traditional lecture style is probably the more favored one, although PBL is good for those who like to talk in small groups, or who enjoy solving cases.

The theory is good for PBL, but the execution of it is poor.

 

[illegallysmooth]

Any reasons for this, Hoody? Or just voting for lecture because that's what you do?

The execution of PBL depends on where you go to school.

I am going to an all-PBL school which does two-hour PBL meetings 3 times per week. I like PBL because it makes learning an active process rather than a passive process where one attempts to internalize knowledge from someone else droning on about it. I never liked lecture - I always got bored and distracted. I think I'll love PBL because of the clinical cases from day 1 and the integration of all the basic sciences at the same time. From my work experience, I have a good background in basic work-ups for common complaints, so I don't think I'll be lost in space from the get-go. Furthermore, at the lecture-based schools I visited, many students said they did not attend all lectures, and several said they didn't attend ANY. To me, this seems like a horrible system. You base a curriculum around lectures, but half your students don't find them valuable enough to attend? I'd much rather spend 6 hours per week going over patient cases to identify what I need to learn with a faculty member to guide me. I'm not worried about missing anything from PBL. The school I am attending had a 100% board passing rate last year.

The learning style which is best for you depends completely on your personal preferences and they way which YOU learn best.

 

[ButImLETired]

Depends on the school. Schools that have very PBL-heavy curricula organize it a lot better than those who just have a small PBL component. You're going to have to learn everything on your own anyway, by the way.

If you do go the PBL route, make sure that it's a very well-organized curriculum. Meaning, make sure that at the end of the case (or in the middle, whatever) you're given actual notes from a professor teaching everything you were supposed to learn. Ask a student there how that works, and if anyone falls really far behind. Also, ask a third or fourth year how hard it is to prep for Step 1 without formal lectures (do you really go over everything that's supposed to be covered, or are you expected to learn a ton by yourself?). Asking the general population of SDN is kinda useless because for most of us PBL is sort of an afterthought, so it's not as well-done.

On the other hand, if you don't want to be forced to go to school a lot, PBL might not be right for you (those sessions are always mandatory, unlike lectures).

 

[ThaliaNox]

I go to a school where the first year is mostly lecture based while the second is PBL based, with this short summer semester being a bridge period. So far, I've found that while interesting and social, PBL is not as efficient as lecture. Bouncing around the bush with cases is not the direct route to understanding the difference between two similar syndromes. It is also easy to get side-tracked.

The main point, though, is efficiency. With lecture double speed from home I can listen to four hours of lecture in two hours and cover a remarkable amount of material. The same two hours spent in a PBL session might only cover one disease. Do I understand that disease pretty well at the end? Sure. Would I maybe rather cover the signs and symptoms of ten diseases in the same amount of time? Maybe.

 

[Phillyborn]

Coming from a PBL based curriculum, I am obviously biased towards it. However, while I definitely feel that I could get through the material on my own (and in fact, we do that before our PBL cases twice a week and then use the PBL time to review/present), there are always things that you miss. I think this is one of the strengths of PBL, that you have a whole group of opinions and backgrounds looking at the same case. So while everyone probably knows the 5 major signs and symptoms, there will always be one person who is interested in public health and looks to see how much the drugs cost or someone who is particularly interested in this condition who looks up journal articles for new developments in the field.

In addition, I have always felt that while I can get a descent understanding of a pathway or etiology through reading, yet when I have to get up in front of the group and draw it out on the board and explain how it fits in to the whole scope of things, I absorb it much better. What's great about PBL is that even if you don't know how all of the pieces fit together (or if you just think you understand it), you have a group to help you.

Finally, the act of hearing a case, presenting your initial thoughts in DDx form, deciphering what you don't know and learning how to efficiently search out that information is vitally important as a physician. So PBL (when done effectively) can be a great stepping stone towards your future career.

 

[longhorn09]

Did you have your so-called PBL mock session during your Northwestern interview?

 

[radiodoc99]

Lectures for basic knowledge unless you can read a textbook before a PBL session. Even if you do lectures, you can study with friends for PBL like sessions

 

[Myuu]

PBL for sure if it's done right. Here at Case, the PBL sessions aren't the place for you to learn material de novo. You do that on your own before you come to discuss what you've learned in PBL. It's also supplemented with handy, relevant lectures.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I would rather shoot myself than be in a PBL curriculum. That does not fit my learning style in the slightest, and at least in lecture curricula, they don't try to give you the illusion that your tuition is actually going towards someone teaching you the material. Like a previous poster said, all you need is a school that doesn't require attendance (PBL or otherwise) so you can skip everything. Learning on your own is the way to go, assuming you have the discipline to get through everything without someone pushing you to do so.

 

[ThaliaNox]

What I'm really not looking forward to with PBL is the time committment. Two hours a day, three days a week that I know I HAVE to be on campus. Add to that required meetings, simulated patient interviews, physical exam classes, tests and other required experiences and I'll probably have to be at school most days of the week for several hours. Then you have to study, prepare for PBL and do the other annoying stuff they want from us and it eats ALL your time.

 

[Caesar]

Depends on the school. Schools that have very PBL-heavy curricula organize it a lot better than those who just have a small PBL component. You're going to have to learn everything on your own anyway, by the way.

If you do go the PBL route, make sure that it's a very well-organized curriculum. Meaning, make sure that at the end of the case (or in the middle, whatever) you're given actual notes from a professor teaching everything you were supposed to learn. Ask a student there how that works, and if anyone falls really far behind. Also, ask a third or fourth year how hard it is to prep for Step 1 without formal lectures (do you really go over everything that's supposed to be covered, or are you expected to learn a ton by yourself?). Asking the general population of SDN is kinda useless because for most of us PBL is sort of an afterthought, so it's not as well-done.

On the other hand, if you don't want to be forced to go to school a lot, PBL might not be right for you (those sessions are always mandatory, unlike lectures).

This.

Some schools are PBL based, they do it well, really well. Some schools started adding PBL as an afterthought because it was working at other schools. It really depends on which way you want to learn it. That being said, it's med school. You are responsible for what you learn or miss, not the lecturer or the rest of your PBL group. In either curriculum it's all on you.

FWIW, the school I picked is PBL heavy, and they do post the learning issues after each case. They also post the ones that other groups came up with and the exams are based on those.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I prefer team based learning over PBL. It probably is an underused differentiation, but in TBL you aren't leading the session. It is lead by a preceptor and everyone works in teams of 5 to compete against the other three teams in the room to answer the questions that are presented correctly. If you get into it, it can be moderately fun. I agree with straight up student led PBL. We had it a couple times and I spent so much time trying to cover the answers 100%. There were like 20 things on the differential and 5 things that fit reasonably well until the final like 10 minutes. Very painful. I also like the option of not going to class when it is neccesary, which is difficult to do if your team/group is waiting on you at 11AM for the two hour TBL session. I'm also a very visual learner and listening to people do PBL for hours would be harder for me to learn than if I read everything. I suppose I could read everything prior to every PBL/TBL, but I have to be true to myself and admit that isn't likely to happen.