PCOM Recent Interview Thoughts/Reactions

[slasherbob]

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I had my interview with PCOM on Thursday of this past week. I was looking forward to it ever since I received my notification that they wanted to interview me. Both of my parents are D.O.s one of which is a PCOM graduate so I have grown up with hearing about PCOM and pretty much dying to go here!

During the interview day, the school was great at providing information on their extensive clinical options, academic resources, etc. But I am sorely disappointed in the OMM department. I noticed that most of the interviewers were concise, but too brief on addressing this topic. It was as if they didn't want anyone to know the "dirty" secret that they teach OMM here. I also got the feeling that the OMM department was less than stellar on my student tour. The student tour guides seemed confused on how to describe their OMM department to the point that left me and many of the other interviewees wondering if they just didn't want to say something bad. One of the tour guides told me to drop into the OMM lab later that day because there would be lab lectures going on and I could get a feel for what the lab sessions were like. Big mistake!! Most of us (interviewees) spent our time holed up in this glass office that looked out into the main hallway in Evans. I got up to go to the restroom and I noticed that the OMM lab was in progress. I figured I would just stick my head in since the student guide told me to do just that. What I saw: students doing absolutely nothing, teachers treating students or other teachers (not quite sure here??) all over the room doing various techniques to the point where I didn't even know what part of the body they were focusing on, people in their regular clothes for lab (!), some professor who kept bashing another professor for either teaching something or not going over something and basically sounding like he didn't know what he was talking about... do I need to go further. It was a complete circus in there. There was no rhyme or reason to the class, the students looked visibly annoyed, lost and continually looking at their watches. I got the feeling that anything goes in there, the teacher running it was a complete ***** because he obviously didn't know enough about what he was talking about to the point of bashing another professor in front of the entire class to make himself look better for not knowing his stuff, the other teachers didn't seem to be paying attention to him or any of their students and gosh... how could you be anything but confused from this? It was terrible. I walked out and headed back to the interview room and ending up telling one of the other guys that I was interviewing with about what happened. Apparently, it is common knowledge that the OMM department stinks here. I wondered why I hadn't heard that from my parents or at least the one who graduated from the school and still has many ties to it. What I found out when I got home. My parents knew about it, but figured they wouldn't bias my thoughts by talking about it. They figured they would let me go and find out on my own. I mean, it is possible that all the hearsay that they hear is just that, hearsay. Well, supposedly the guy or I guess it is a brother team that have run the department for quite some time and they have numerous wonderful osteopathic physicians in their department such as Dr. Burns and Dr. Kuchera, but they themselves are rapidly approaching or possibly already past their expiration date. I am sad to say as much as I was impressed with PCOM in their clinical and academic areas, I want to be a DO as much for these reasons as for the OMM. I feel like it is one thing to hear bad news about a school, but to see the actual situation with your own eyes... well, I won't forget it.

 

[medhacker]

I had my interview with PCOM on Thursday of this past week. I was looking forward to it ever since I received my notification that they wanted to interview me. Both of my parents are D.O.s one of which is a PCOM graduate so I have grown up with hearing about PCOM and pretty much dying to go here!

During the interview day, the school was great at providing information on their extensive clinical options, academic resources, etc. But I am sorely disappointed in the OMM department. I noticed that most of the interviewers were concise, but too brief on addressing this topic. It was as if they didn't want anyone to know the "dirty" secret that they teach OMM here. I also got the feeling that the OMM department was less than stellar on my student tour. The student tour guides seemed confused on how to describe their OMM department to the point that left me and many of the other interviewees wondering if they just didn't want to say something bad. One of the tour guides told me to drop into the OMM lab later that day because there would be lab lectures going on and I could get a feel for what the lab sessions were like. Big mistake!! Most of us (interviewees) spent our time holed up in this glass office that looked out into the main hallway in Evans. I got up to go to the restroom and I noticed that the OMM lab was in progress. I figured I would just stick my head in since the student guide told me to do just that. What I saw: students doing absolutely nothing, teachers treating students or other teachers (not quite sure here??) all over the room doing various techniques to the point where I didn't even know what part of the body they were focusing on, people in their regular clothes for lab (!), some professor who kept bashing another professor for either teaching something or not going over something and basically sounding like he didn't know what he was talking about... do I need to go further. It was a complete circus in there. There was no rhyme or reason to the class, the students looked visibly annoyed, lost and continually looking at their watches. I got the feeling that anything goes in there, the teacher running it was a complete ***** because he obviously didn't know enough about what he was talking about to the point of bashing another professor in front of the entire class to make himself look better for not knowing his stuff, the other teachers didn't seem to be paying attention to him or any of their students and gosh... how could you be anything but confused from this? It was terrible. I walked out and headed back to the interview room and ending up telling one of the other guys that I was interviewing with about what happened. Apparently, it is common knowledge that the OMM department stinks here. I wondered why I hadn't heard that from my parents or at least the one who graduated from the school and still has many ties to it. What I found out when I got home. My parents knew about it, but figured they wouldn't bias my thoughts by talking about it. They figured they would let me go and find out on my own. I mean, it is possible that all the hearsay that they hear is just that, hearsay. Well, supposedly the guy or I guess it is a brother team that have run the department for quite some time and they have numerous wonderful osteopathic physicians in their department such as Dr. Burns and Dr. Kuchera, but they themselves are rapidly approaching or possibly already past their expiration date. I am sad to say as much as I was impressed with PCOM in their clinical and academic areas, I want to be a DO as much for these reasons as for the OMM. I feel like it is one thing to hear bad news about a school, but to see the actual situation with your own eyes... well, I won't forget it.

The fact that you opened an account for the only purpose of making this post coupled with the high number of details you described which are NOTHING like PCOM, makes me unable to call your post other than a calumny.


I don't know where to start with the inconsistencies. Plain clothes? intraprofessor bashing? this is easy to say from an anonymous SDN account but for those who are at PCOM is completely ludicrous.

How do you expect to be an authrority as to the "rhyme and reason" of a class being a premed?

Please observe the calumny in its greatest expression:

Apparently, it is common knowledge that the OMM department stinks here.

That is an obviously ill-conceived statement, apparently? according to whom? who did you ask? your parents never told you about the "alleged" OMM craphouse PCOM is, you never heard any of these allegations before your interview, yet you unequivocally conclude that it is common knowledge the OMM department stinks here?

Just last week we had a number of applicants who went straight inside our lab to see an OMM class first hand.

I don't know of anyone trying to hide OMM at PCOM as a little secret, rather we are very proud to have nationally reknown faculty and one of the best OMM departments (and I have seen a few) if not the best.

Sorry, I can't help but call your post a malicious false statement.

👎

 

[DO Sigma Nu guy]

I had my interview with PCOM on Thursday of this past week. I was looking forward to it ever since I received my notification that they wanted to interview me. Both of my parents are D.O.s one of which is a PCOM graduate so I have grown up with hearing about PCOM and pretty much dying to go here!

During the interview day, the school was great at providing information on their extensive clinical options, academic resources, etc. But I am sorely disappointed in the OMM department. I noticed that most of the interviewers were concise, but too brief on addressing this topic. It was as if they didn't want anyone to know the "dirty" secret that they teach OMM here. I also got the feeling that the OMM department was less than stellar on my student tour. The student tour guides seemed confused on how to describe their OMM department to the point that left me and many of the other interviewees wondering if they just didn't want to say something bad. One of the tour guides told me to drop into the OMM lab later that day because there would be lab lectures going on and I could get a feel for what the lab sessions were like. Big mistake!! Most of us (interviewees) spent our time holed up in this glass office that looked out into the main hallway in Evans. I got up to go to the restroom and I noticed that the OMM lab was in progress. I figured I would just stick my head in since the student guide told me to do just that. What I saw: students doing absolutely nothing, teachers treating students or other teachers (not quite sure here??) all over the room doing various techniques to the point where I didn't even know what part of the body they were focusing on, people in their regular clothes for lab (!), some professor who kept bashing another professor for either teaching something or not going over something and basically sounding like he didn't know what he was talking about... do I need to go further. It was a complete circus in there. There was no rhyme or reason to the class, the students looked visibly annoyed, lost and continually looking at their watches. I got the feeling that anything goes in there, the teacher running it was a complete ***** because he obviously didn't know enough about what he was talking about to the point of bashing another professor in front of the entire class to make himself look better for not knowing his stuff, the other teachers didn't seem to be paying attention to him or any of their students and gosh... how could you be anything but confused from this? It was terrible. I walked out and headed back to the interview room and ending up telling one of the other guys that I was interviewing with about what happened. Apparently, it is common knowledge that the OMM department stinks here. I wondered why I hadn't heard that from my parents or at least the one who graduated from the school and still has many ties to it. What I found out when I got home. My parents knew about it, but figured they wouldn't bias my thoughts by talking about it. They figured they would let me go and find out on my own. I mean, it is possible that all the hearsay that they hear is just that, hearsay. Well, supposedly the guy or I guess it is a brother team that have run the department for quite some time and they have numerous wonderful osteopathic physicians in their department such as Dr. Burns and Dr. Kuchera, but they themselves are rapidly approaching or possibly already past their expiration date. I am sad to say as much as I was impressed with PCOM in their clinical and academic areas, I want to be a DO as much for these reasons as for the OMM. I feel like it is one thing to hear bad news about a school, but to see the actual situation with your own eyes... well, I won't forget it.

Medhacker said it best.

One more thing, if you are talking about the November 1st lab, your facts are all wrong.

The truth is, thursday's lab was basically a review of techniques we need to know for our practical. Thus, everyone was doing their own thing. Some people were working on mesenteric lifts, sacral rocks, colonic stimulation, etc. If you were so dissatisfied with the organization, maybe you should of talked with a 2nd year in the class rather than going back to the fishbowl to discuss a flawed perception.

I would suggest, if you are accepted, to check out another class/lab. Everyday is different.

 

[medhacker]

And I don't get paid to say this.

Neither do I, although I wouldn't mind getting some moolah for it 😀


Anyway, there is indeed one thing we would like to hide about OMM at PCOM, so I think I'd better come forward with it:


The guy's dressing room stinks...

To put it in the words of another classmate, it is as if someone came during the weekends and rubbed their rear on the dressing room's walls and locked the room so the aroma would not leave


Other than that, we are not trying to hide anything about our OMM.

So should you decide to attend, do your class a favor and bring one of those plugin glade deodorizers < --- CERTIFIED!.

😎

 

[Nickelpennykid]

The OP seems like an odd bird, but like the other replys have said, that description isn't even close. First of all, the director for the OMM course wrote the text book that we use and that text is used at a couple of other schools. I am an OMS1, so the first few months of OMM aren't the most exciting because you don't really learn any techniques, but to say that the staff is poor is totally off base. OMM lab, compared to say gross anatomy lab or a chem lab is a little less structured, so of course there are gonig to be people standing around observing techniques.

As for it being a dirty little secret, the room is on the main floor of our main building and is basically the first room you see when you walk in. What DO school in thier right mind is going to try to hide the fact that they teach OMM.

 

[superfan56]

i wouldn't say that PCOM has a bad OMM department at all, but I will say the tour i took during their open house, the students that conducted the interview had very little working knowledge about the practicing of OMM in the field. And the guy that sat on the panel and stated that a DO was a chiropractor and MD combined didn't do much for that aspect as well. PCOM is still one of my top schools, and am curious about how Dr. E is presenting the GA as far as OMM is concerned

 

[future Dr. Pate]

Dr. E is probably one of the greatest D.O's EVER. He is doing a fine job for us here down in GA. It is truly an honor to be learning OMM under him...and he is such a nice guy too!

 

[daisymay83]

Hey slasherbob. Nice to see you on here. I guess the studentdoctor thing is a pretty popular site, huh. Thanks to all in the interview group that gave me the 411. I think we signed up right around the same time! So, it was good meeting you the other day at the interview.

Too bad about your experience. I know you mentioned it, but I think you definitely have to take in to consideration all the wonderful aspects about PCOM, too. Yeah, I have definitely heard not so many stellar things about the OMM dept as well, but what makes this okay for me is the fact that just about everyone else is fantastic. Take for instance Carol Fox (it doesn't get any better than this lady! She is just awesome.), Dean Veit who is as good as they come, Dr. Kriebel, Megan Femlee, etc. The list goes on and on. I hear these people and I have met a few are what has made PCOM so up and coming as of late and I think it will only get better. With these kinds of people behind the wheel, you would have to think that although the OMM dept might stink right now, it won't always because PCOM does not seem like the type of school that fosters stale air. Plus, I hear they hold these brown bag lunches where Dr. Veit attends as well as other members and they listen to student concerns. I think that is awesome!

As for the traditional OMM, well, I think we all talked about this last Thursday. I hear Des Moines has a fantastic program and the other one I know of is, of course, Kirksville. But you would think that of Kirksville because they are the founders of it. From everyone I meet that is familiar with Osteopathy, Kirksville pretty much rocks it on the OMM front. But it is in the middle of no where. If you're cool with that, then it might be your school. Since you're looking for great OMM, stay away from West Virginia. I have a friend that is there and they pretty much have less OMM than PCOM. Plus, I heard they blatantly disregard many of the more difficult techniques because I hear their faculty is just not trained to teach it. Back to PCOM... I also heard that PCOM has one of the Kirksville OMM gods at its school, but he is more of a research guy. Might be something to think about if you end up attending PCOM. I hear he is the man to follow if you want to learn anything about osteopathy. Another note on KCOM, I hear that Kirksville backs up most of their OMM methods with documented research which is pretty fantastic and I hear that these methods were put in place by the same doctor who is now at PCOM (I think it is Dr. Cuchera??). If that school was anywhere, but Kirksville, MO, it would be the school to be at.

As far as the text book that people are talking about in previous posts, I've heard mixed reviews on it. Just because the course director and brother wrote it doesn't mean it is a good text. It sounds like many of the students don't really care for these two professors, anyways. I've heard students complaining about the fact that they had to shell out over $120 dollars for a book that has a million mistakes, missing techniques, etc. Yeah, I know it is a first edition, which means there will be mistakes. If they knew this, why'd they make the students pay an ungodly amount for it. They could have offered it at a discount initially until they had a few editions out. I also heard that they blatantly disagree with some techniques that other Osteopathic physicians use and have completely left these out of the book. It is one thing to not teach it, but to not put it in there for possible further learning on the student's part is biased teaching in my opinion. Which, I hear these two brothers are famous for. Basically, I heard they like to talk about how wonderful they think they are, tell all kinds of stories and generally ramble off topic at great lengths! Hahaha! Seems to me that most of the students just seem downright confused by most of the lectures, and the labs are just a joke. But hey, whatever. No school is going to be perfect on every front. PCOM is definitely a top school in just about every other area.

So, slasher, some of us are getting together to kind of have a small Thanksgiving celebration. I'll private msg you with details and hopefully you can join. We can all talk about this some more off of student doctor because honestly, I think you'll just get a lot of hot air from students who are at PCOM and will take your genuine concern way out of context. And, for the record, I think it is great that your parents kept their biased opinions and hearsay away from you while you were going through your interview. I think that is how it should be! Good for you and them! Alright, hope to talk to you soon.

 

[Nickelpennykid]

Hey slasherbob. Nice to see you on here. I guess the studentdoctor thing is a pretty popular site, huh. Thanks to all in the interview group that gave me the 411. I think we signed up right around the same time! So, it was good meeting you the other day at the interview.

Too bad about your experience. I know you mentioned it, but I think you definitely have to take in to consideration all the wonderful aspects about PCOM, too. Yeah, I have definitely heard not so many stellar things about the OMM dept as well, but what makes this okay for me is the fact that just about everyone else is fantastic. Take for instance Carol Fox (it doesn't get any better than this lady! She is just awesome.), Dean Veit who is as good as they come, Dr. Kriebel, Megan Femlee, etc. The list goes on and on. I hear these people and I have met a few are what has made PCOM so up and coming as of late and I think it will only get better. With these kinds of people behind the wheel, you would have to think that although the OMM dept might stink right now, it won't always because PCOM does not seem like the type of school that fosters stale air. Plus, I hear they hold these brown bag lunches where Dr. Veit attends as well as other members and they listen to student concerns. I think that is awesome!

As for the traditional OMM, well, I think we all talked about this last Thursday. I hear Des Moines has a fantastic program and the other one I know of is, of course, Kirksville. But you would think that of Kirksville because they are the founders of it. From everyone I meet that is familiar with Osteopathy, Kirksville pretty much rocks it on the OMM front. But it is in the middle of no where. If you're cool with that, then it might be your school. Since you're looking for great OMM, stay away from West Virginia. I have a friend that is there and they pretty much have less OMM than PCOM. Plus, I heard they blatantly disregard many of the more difficult techniques because I hear their faculty is just not trained to teach it. Back to PCOM... I also heard that PCOM has one of the Kirksville OMM gods at its school, but he is more of a research guy. Might be something to think about if you end up attending PCOM. I hear he is the man to follow if you want to learn anything about osteopathy. Another note on KCOM, I hear that Kirksville backs up most of their OMM methods with documented research which is pretty fantastic and I hear that these methods were put in place by the same doctor who is now at PCOM (I think it is Dr. Cuchera??). If that school was anywhere, but Kirksville, MO, it would be the school to be at.

As far as the text book that people are talking about in previous posts, I've heard mixed reviews on it. Just because the course director and brother wrote it doesn't mean it is a good text. It sounds like many of the students don't really care for these two professors, anyways. I've heard students complaining about the fact that they had to shell out over $120 dollars for a book that has a million mistakes, missing techniques, etc. Yeah, I know it is a first edition, which means there will be mistakes. If they knew this, why'd they make the students pay an ungodly amount for it. They could have offered it at a discount initially until they had a few editions out. I also heard that they blatantly disagree with some techniques that other Osteopathic physicians use and have completely left these out of the book. It is one thing to not teach it, but to not put it in there for possible further learning on the student's part is biased teaching in my opinion. Which, I hear these two brothers are famous for. Basically, I heard they like to talk about how wonderful they think they are, tell all kinds of stories and generally ramble off topic at great lengths! Hahaha! Seems to me that most of the students just seem downright confused by most of the lectures, and the labs are just a joke. But hey, whatever. No school is going to be perfect on every front. PCOM is definitely a top school in just about every other area.

So, slasher, some of us are getting together to kind of have a small Thanksgiving celebration. I'll private msg you with details and hopefully you can join. We can all talk about this some more off of student doctor because honestly, I think you'll just get a lot of hot air from students who are at PCOM and will take your genuine concern way out of context. And, for the record, I think it is great that your parents kept their biased opinions and hearsay away from you while you were going through your interview. I think that is how it should be! Good for you and them! Alright, hope to talk to you soon.

I am not too sure what "hot air" from current PCOM students means, but as for your concern about the student giving the tour for your group...it is a bit unfair for you to expect a first or second year student to understand how OMM is used clinically, as they are themselves still learning about OMM. You would not expect that student to explain the clincal aspects of billiary surgery simply because he just finished dissecting the liver. To really learn OMM you have to complete a residency, just like everything else. You are correct in stating the Dr. Kuchera is an OMM god. If you have genuine concerns about the OMM department, contact him. He is a far better resource than a first or second year. There is no real need for current students to have to "sell" the school to the applicants. The fact that we get more applications than any other osteopathic school in the US is not the result of a hyped-up reputation created by the current students.

 

[medhacker]

Oh sure, open another SDN account in a lame attempt to legitimize your first post 👎 .

Maybe you were not accepted to PCOM, had to attend somewhere else and out of bitterness you have to try to bring PCOM OMM professors into disrepute.

It does not matter, most people know a false campaign when they see it. PCOM has a solid program all throughout - opening a new, anonymous account on SDN to spread falsehood about its program will not resolve the real issues you seem to have.

Hey slasherbob. Nice to see you on here. I guess the studentdoctor thing is a pretty popular site, huh. Thanks to all in the interview group that gave me the 411. I think we signed up right around the same time! So, it was good meeting you the other day at the interview.

Too bad about your experience. I know you mentioned it, but I think you definitely have to take in to consideration all the wonderful aspects about PCOM, too. Yeah, I have definitely heard not so many stellar things about the OMM dept as well, but what makes this okay for me is the fact that just about everyone else is fantastic. Take for instance Carol Fox (it doesn't get any better than this lady! She is just awesome.), Dean Veit who is as good as they come, Dr. Kriebel, Megan Femlee, etc. The list goes on and on. I hear these people and I have met a few are what has made PCOM so up and coming as of late and I think it will only get better. With these kinds of people behind the wheel, you would have to think that although the OMM dept might stink right now, it won't always because PCOM does not seem like the type of school that fosters stale air. Plus, I hear they hold these brown bag lunches where Dr. Veit attends as well as other members and they listen to student concerns. I think that is awesome!

As for the traditional OMM, well, I think we all talked about this last Thursday. I hear Des Moines has a fantastic program and the other one I know of is, of course, Kirksville. But you would think that of Kirksville because they are the founders of it. From everyone I meet that is familiar with Osteopathy, Kirksville pretty much rocks it on the OMM front. But it is in the middle of no where. If you're cool with that, then it might be your school. Since you're looking for great OMM, stay away from West Virginia. I have a friend that is there and they pretty much have less OMM than PCOM. Plus, I heard they blatantly disregard many of the more difficult techniques because I hear their faculty is just not trained to teach it. Back to PCOM... I also heard that PCOM has one of the Kirksville OMM gods at its school, but he is more of a research guy. Might be something to think about if you end up attending PCOM. I hear he is the man to follow if you want to learn anything about osteopathy. Another note on KCOM, I hear that Kirksville backs up most of their OMM methods with documented research which is pretty fantastic and I hear that these methods were put in place by the same doctor who is now at PCOM (I think it is Dr. Cuchera??). If that school was anywhere, but Kirksville, MO, it would be the school to be at.

As far as the text book that people are talking about in previous posts, I've heard mixed reviews on it. Just because the course director and brother wrote it doesn't mean it is a good text. It sounds like many of the students don't really care for these two professors, anyways. I've heard students complaining about the fact that they had to shell out over $120 dollars for a book that has a million mistakes, missing techniques, etc. Yeah, I know it is a first edition, which means there will be mistakes. If they knew this, why'd they make the students pay an ungodly amount for it. They could have offered it at a discount initially until they had a few editions out. I also heard that they blatantly disagree with some techniques that other Osteopathic physicians use and have completely left these out of the book. It is one thing to not teach it, but to not put it in there for possible further learning on the student's part is biased teaching in my opinion. Which, I hear these two brothers are famous for. Basically, I heard they like to talk about how wonderful they think they are, tell all kinds of stories and generally ramble off topic at great lengths! Hahaha! Seems to me that most of the students just seem downright confused by most of the lectures, and the labs are just a joke. But hey, whatever. No school is going to be perfect on every front. PCOM is definitely a top school in just about every other area.

So, slasher, some of us are getting together to kind of have a small Thanksgiving celebration. I'll private msg you with details and hopefully you can join. We can all talk about this some more off of student doctor because honestly, I think you'll just get a lot of hot air from students who are at PCOM and will take your genuine concern way out of context. And, for the record, I think it is great that your parents kept their biased opinions and hearsay away from you while you were going through your interview. I think that is how it should be! Good for you and them! Alright, hope to talk to you soon.

 

[sexyman]

I know were not allowed to talk about it or something but is JP ever coming back? I dont know why I care but I do lol

 

[daisymay83]

well, nickelpennykid, actually slasherbob was the one unimpressed with the student tour guide's knowledge of OMM... not me. Of course, I wouldn't expect a student to be as well versed as say Dr. Kuchera in OMM. I do, however, think after interviewing at a place like Des Moines or Kirksville, that the PCOM students should be able to speak at the same level as those 2nd year DO students do about basic OMM principles. PCOM isn't even close and that's a shame. You don't have to sell PCOM to me, I already think it is a fantastic place. I said that a few times in my post. I know about the stats the school has and they are impressive. It still doesn't change the fact that the OMM dept could use a face lift and I think a great deal of students former, current and soon to be would be happy to see things change in this area. Obviously, things don't change unless people speak up about it. That is simply what we are doing. PCOM is wonderful. Why not make it even better? It can only help the school and all of its students. I definitely don't think this is something that PCOM will continue to allow to fall to the wayside. I hear Dr. Veit is a very progressive, forward and motivated leader of the school and I think most of the students here have faith that he is definitely good at listening to student concerns. I just wanted to cheer up a new friend (slasherbob) who I thought was thinking too much about the negative aspect (OMM dept) of the school and not thinking about how there are great people who are leaders in the school, both OMM and other departments, that could definitely be some positives that could be available if he ends up getting in and choosing to attend.

Nice post medhacker. What are you talking about opening up another account? What? Little angry are we or maybe just suffering a little paranoia. Believe it or not, even a great school does have some flaws. I'm not saying that you're wrong for defending it. No problem. You obviously go there and have a different view. But, there are others who can have a different and educated point of view, too. No, I haven't been accepted to PCOM at this point, but I just interviewed so I don't know. And no, I"m not bitter. I just have an opinion just like you have yours. Sorry this is upsetting to you.

 

[Nickelpennykid]

Do you know what the difference was between your experiences at the various schools you interviewed at...your student tour guide. Slasherbob is pretty much basing his opinion on the OMM department on one kid who didn't know too much about OMM and the fact that he saw people standing around in lab. Guess what, not every student that goes to a DO school has a genuine interest in OMM and if you happen to talk to a couple of those students, do you think they will have great things to say about the OMM department. Even at Kirksville or Des Moines you are going to have students who don't like OMM and guess what happens...they complain about the program. This is the same for every class...a kid fails anatomy and complains that the professors suck. The idea that the department needs a facelift is absurd...the school gives you the chance to work with some of the best in the field if you put the effort into doing it. Those that don't like OMM can just learn the basics, pass the boards and never really use it. This is not an argument for or against OMM (I happen to love it), but the point is that had you (slasherbob) spoken to a third year fellow or a second year who is really interested in OMM, you would have had a different experience with OMM at PCOM. I am sure the other places have great programs as well, but until you attend a class, please refrain from commenting about any departments. This is how other pre meds make uninformed decisions. If you had a bad cup of coffee in our caf, go ahead and tell everyone how much the coffee sucks because at least you actually tried that... but you are not quite in a position to comment on an entire department based on a student tour and hearsay.

well, nickelpennykid, actually slasherbob was the one unimpressed with the student tour guide's knowledge of OMM... not me. Of course, I wouldn't expect a student to be as well versed as say Dr. Kuchera in OMM. I do, however, think after interviewing at a place like Des Moines or Kirksville, that the PCOM students should be able to speak at the same level as those 2nd year DO students do about basic OMM principles. PCOM isn't even close and that's a shame. You don't have to sell PCOM to me, I already think it is a fantastic place. I said that a few times in my post. I know about the stats the school has and they are impressive. It still doesn't change the fact that the OMM dept could use a face lift and I think a great deal of students former, current and soon to be would be happy to see things change in this area. Obviously, things don't change unless people speak up about it. That is simply what we are doing. PCOM is wonderful. Why not make it even better? It can only help the school and all of its students. I definitely don't think this is something that PCOM will continue to allow to fall to the wayside. I hear Dr. Veit is a very progressive, forward and motivated leader of the school and I think most of the students here have faith that he is definitely good at listening to student concerns. I just wanted to cheer up a new friend (slasherbob) who I thought was thinking too much about the negative aspect (OMM dept) of the school and not thinking about how there are great people who are leaders in the school, both OMM and other departments, that could definitely be some positives that could be available if he ends up getting in and choosing to attend.

 

[medhacker]

It still doesn't change the fact that the OMM dept could use a face lift

I just have an opinion.

Make up your mind, a fact or your opinion?

Had you said it was your opinion all throughout, with both your usernames, and not presented your opinion [which keep in mind, according to your own omission, is based on hearsay and a few poor experiences with PCOM] as fact, we would not be having this conversation.

But obviously, this is your opinion it is not a fact, you have not presented anything to deem your statement a fact. You are definitely entitled to it, and we are entitled to knowing what the basis for your opinion is - and those basis are...null, insuficient, anecdotal, hearsay...

Please, in the future do not tag your opinions as facts.

 

[daisymay83]

well, medhacker, since this has clearly turned into a pissing contest and you feel like quoting certain areas of my post and turning it around to fit your theories, all I have to say is go ahead. I think it is kind of funny how defensive and angry you seem over a premed's comments.

nickelpennykid, are you asking me? my experiences while interviewing elsewhere was the chance to actually see a demonstration of OMM (student demonstration, too!) and ask questions about certain techniques. As for student tour guides, well, that is something that seems to be pretty straight forward across the board. Again, I'm not the one who had the bad experience with the tour guide. It was amazing to see how much these students knew off the top of their heads about the techniques, the research regarding it and why you would or would not use it. They really knew their stuff and it was impressive. Maybe a suggestion for PCOM.

 

[medhacker]

I think it is kind of funny how defensive and angry you seem over a premed's comments.

Is that one of your opinions or one of your facts?

 

[Nickelpennykid]

Is that somthing that you are using to make a decision for which school to attend? A demonstration of OMM? Even if that is field you want to go into, or if you plan to use OMM on a daily basis, would you really put a plus in the positives catagory because they showed you a technique. "O look, HVLA...no idea what that is but it looks neat." One of my tours last year did a student demonstration of OMM for 15mins, then spent the next hour showing me the gym and the library that they just built...two things that would also fall into the catagory of "who really cares." It is like the people who say, I want to go to school in FLA because they have nice weather. It is important to learn about the department, but a demonstration of OMM is not going to do that. For the OP, if you wanted to know about the department and couldn't get answers from the guide, asking one of the interviewers at the end of the interview when they said "do you have any questions for us" would have been the right time. At the very least, they would have put you in contact with someone that day that could have answered all of your questions.

nickelpennykid, are you asking me? my experiences while interviewing elsewhere was the chance to actually see a demonstration of OMM (student demonstration, too!) and ask questions about certain techniques. As for student tour guides, well, that is something that seems to be pretty straight forward across the board. Again, I'm not the one who had the bad experience with the tour guide. It was amazing to see how much these students knew off the top of their heads about the techniques, the research regarding it and why you would or would not use it. They really knew their stuff and it was impressive. Maybe a suggestion for PCOM.

 

[daisymay83]

actually, I think the way these students presented themselves and their OMM is a direct reflection of how well the OMM department does at teaching their material. I don't know, I guess that is usually how I've always looked at it. But, you can compare it to the weather in Florida. That's cool. Maybe that is why you don't get it. 😛

 

[Nickelpennykid]

actually, I think the way these students presented themselves and their OMM is a direct reflection of how well the OMM department does at teaching their material. I don't know, I guess that is usually how I've always looked at it. But, you can compare it to the weather in Florida. That's cool. Maybe that is why you don't get it. 😛

You are right, I am sure that wherever you were had a great OMM department. You obviously came in contact with some students that were either very good and or very interested in OMM. No one is saying differently. The key here is "I think." You think this is a reflection of great instruction, but you have no idea because you have never taken a class there. Lets say that school has a bad biochem department and some kid that never goes to class and just reads the book gets a 95 on the exam. All you see is the result, not the process, and from your logic, you determine that the school has a great biochem staff because this kid does really well and really likes biochem. Thus, watching a few OMM superstars do techiniques for a few mins says little about the department and more about the students. Does great instruction help students learn OMM? Obviously, but how can you know anything about it without sitting in class.

Like I said I am sure these places have great OMM departments but you and the other poster can't write "I think" statments about our department and expect no one to correct you. If you are accepted to PCOM and matriculate, then after a year of OMM you can come back on here and tell people your opinion about the department. Then maybe you can be taken seriously.

 

[Nickelpennykid]

By the way, inbetween posting, I am studying for an upcoming OMM exam and being saved by Dr. Kurchea's lectures. Odd that one of the most respected and well published researchers/DO's in the field would chose to leave a position at a great institution and come to PCOM, a program that you say is in need of a facelift.

 

[MaximusD]

I had my interview with PCOM on Thursday of this past week. I was looking forward to it ever since I received my notification that they wanted to interview me. Both of my parents are D.O.s one of which is a PCOM graduate so I have grown up with hearing about PCOM and pretty much dying to go here!

During the interview day, the school was great at providing information on their extensive clinical options, academic resources, etc. But I am sorely disappointed in the OMM department. I noticed that most of the interviewers were concise, but too brief on addressing this topic. It was as if they didn't want anyone to know the "dirty" secret that they teach OMM here. I also got the feeling that the OMM department was less than stellar on my student tour. The student tour guides seemed confused on how to describe their OMM department to the point that left me and many of the other interviewees wondering if they just didn't want to say something bad. One of the tour guides told me to drop into the OMM lab later that day because there would be lab lectures going on and I could get a feel for what the lab sessions were like. Big mistake!! Most of us (interviewees) spent our time holed up in this glass office that looked out into the main hallway in Evans. I got up to go to the restroom and I noticed that the OMM lab was in progress. I figured I would just stick my head in since the student guide told me to do just that. What I saw: students doing absolutely nothing, teachers treating students or other teachers (not quite sure here??) all over the room doing various techniques to the point where I didn't even know what part of the body they were focusing on, people in their regular clothes for lab (!), some professor who kept bashing another professor for either teaching something or not going over something and basically sounding like he didn't know what he was talking about... do I need to go further. It was a complete circus in there. There was no rhyme or reason to the class, the students looked visibly annoyed, lost and continually looking at their watches. I got the feeling that anything goes in there, the teacher running it was a complete ***** because he obviously didn't know enough about what he was talking about to the point of bashing another professor in front of the entire class to make himself look better for not knowing his stuff, the other teachers didn't seem to be paying attention to him or any of their students and gosh... how could you be anything but confused from this? It was terrible. I walked out and headed back to the interview room and ending up telling one of the other guys that I was interviewing with about what happened. Apparently, it is common knowledge that the OMM department stinks here. I wondered why I hadn't heard that from my parents or at least the one who graduated from the school and still has many ties to it. What I found out when I got home. My parents knew about it, but figured they wouldn't bias my thoughts by talking about it. They figured they would let me go and find out on my own. I mean, it is possible that all the hearsay that they hear is just that, hearsay. Well, supposedly the guy or I guess it is a brother team that have run the department for quite some time and they have numerous wonderful osteopathic physicians in their department such as Dr. Burns and Dr. Kuchera, but they themselves are rapidly approaching or possibly already past their expiration date. I am sad to say as much as I was impressed with PCOM in their clinical and academic areas, I want to be a DO as much for these reasons as for the OMM. I feel like it is one thing to hear bad news about a school, but to see the actual situation with your own eyes... well, I won't forget it.

Good god you couldn't be further off the mark. In fact, I am dissapoitnd that I have just legitimized this post with a response. Crap.

 

[superfan56]

well, medhacker, since this has clearly turned into a pissing contest and you feel like quoting certain areas of my post and turning it around to fit your theories, all I have to say is go ahead. I think it is kind of funny how defensive and angry you seem over a premed's comments.

nickelpennykid, are you asking me? my experiences while interviewing elsewhere was the chance to actually see a demonstration of OMM (student demonstration, too!) and ask questions about certain techniques. As for student tour guides, well, that is something that seems to be pretty straight forward across the board. Again, I'm not the one who had the bad experience with the tour guide. It was amazing to see how much these students knew off the top of their heads about the techniques, the research regarding it and why you would or would not use it. They really knew their stuff and it was impressive. Maybe a suggestion for PCOM.

I think the student tours are ok at best. I already love the school, and have been on 2 tours and have several friends that go there already as well as work with PCOM alumni and have been treated by a PCOM doc for my entire life. So I don't at all doubt the education. What I am a bit disappointed about is PCOM really only differentiates themselves from the other allopathic schools in philly. Maybe I'm not hearing this right, but it's never been presented on the tours I've been on what is the difference in a PCOM education vs. say DMU or CCOM. The open houses are seemingly more for the parents and explaining the difference what Osteopathic medicine vs allopathic or as the student on the panel said (D.O. == Chiropractor + M.D.). The only thing I also ever really hear is the "family atmosphere" which I appreciate, but I'm sure there are more reasons why you chose PCOM vs. another school.

I am in no way disregarding PCOM, just throwing some things out there.

 

[Nickelpennykid]

I think the student tours are ok at best. I already love the school, and have been on 2 tours and have several friends that go there already as well as work with PCOM alumni and have been treated by a PCOM doc for my entire life. So I don't at all doubt the education. What I am a bit disappointed about is PCOM really only differentiates themselves from the other allopathic schools in philly. Maybe I'm not hearing this right, but it's never been presented on the tours I've been on what is the difference in a PCOM education vs. say DMU or CCOM. The open houses are seemingly more for the parents and explaining the difference what Osteopathic medicine vs allopathic or as the student on the panel said (D.O. == Chiropractor + M.D.). The only thing I also ever really hear is the "family atmosphere" which I appreciate, but I'm sure there are more reasons why you chose PCOM vs. another school.

I am in no way disregarding PCOM, just throwing some things out there.

I agree with what you say about the way the school presents itself in relation to the other philly schools. You have to remember that we have a pretty decent in state population and a good deal of our out of staters are from NJ and NY. Many of the students that apply to PCOM (and a lot of the students at the school now) were choosing between the philly schools so thier interests may have been the differences between temple and pcom, for example. I have a lot of friends at the other schools in philly, so I know the differences between those schools. This is true for a lot of students at PCOM. Many of them only intereved at the other DO schools, so it is less likely that they know another student from DMU or CCOM, so they can't really give a good, factual comparision. We rotate with kids from jeff, temple, dexel and penn so we just happen to know a lot more about their programs.

 

[fireflygirl]

I'm sorry, but this is just a ridiculous post!! 😡 I think that slasherbob has a right to make his point and while I don't think it's a very accurate reflection of the school, he has that right. It's very easy to go to a school and and get positive and negative reactions to what you see - your mindset is to make sure the place is perfect and when you see something that you don't like, you get disappointed, and mistakenly take it as a reflection on the school. But as SigmaNu guy said, what slasherbob saw had nothing to do with the department itself, as much as it had to do with where they were in the cirriculum. DONE. End of story. MOVE ON!!!

I was recently accepted at PCOM and when I went for my interview, I really thought the tour guides did a nice job of showing the schools strengths and weaknesses. I am very seriously considering going there but am not going to base my decision on some of the things that didn't go right that day. My advice to slasherbob is look at the school as a whole - most importantly, does it offer you the kind of education and clinical training you are looking for. You obviously have parents that are very happy with their education and am sure have turned out to be wonderful physicians. Secondary issues like OMM or anything else that you might not have liked really aren't good measures of the school. Talk to current and former students and get a feeling for those things that are important to you as you prepare to become a physician, regardless of the school. And if you and the values of the school match, then none of the weaknesses are going to be an issue. Even Harvard has some ****ty aspects about it...that's just how it is...you have to figure out if those ****ty aspects are a big enough deal that they wouldn't gel with your personality or what you are looking for in a school.

As for everyone else that has been bashing slasherbob and daisymay for their very valid opinions, facts, whatever...please find something better to do.

 

[medhacker]

As for everyone else that has been bashing slasherbob and daisymay for their very valid opinions, facts, whatever...please find something better to do.

Doctor, heal yourself...

No one ever said she/he can't post her/his opinions.

If you defend so much the right to give opinions I hope you defend as vehemently the right of others to complaint when opinions are presented as facts. Otherwise your statement is hypocritical.

 

[daisymay83]

By the way, inbetween posting, I am studying for an upcoming OMM exam and being saved by Dr. Kurchea's lectures. Odd that one of the most respected and well published researchers/DO's in the field would chose to leave a position at a great institution and come to PCOM, a program that you say is in need of a facelift.

That's great that Dr. Cuchera's stuff has been saving you, but it is too bad that the biggest portion of the lectures notes, which are from the Nicholas brothers, aren't helping. I mean, I have a friend that is a 2nd year there and he says that most of the lectures have been given by Dr. Alex and Evan this year so far. Hmm. I agree, it is too bad that Kirksville (he is from there, right???) seems to have lost an amazing Osteopathic physician, Dr. Cuchera. It is definitely their loss. But I hear that PCOM doesn't utilize him as much as they probably could due to the Nicholas brothers. Hopefully, Dr. Cuchera can be more of a force eventually at PCOM. Usually a great teacher produces great students, residents and attendings. I think it is great that he is there and I look forward to meeting the guy if I am accepted.

Thanks for the support firefly girl. I love PCOM, too, but apparently because I and slasherbob (which I guess I am mistaken for him by the paranoid posters Medhacker and Nickelpenny kid) have opinions we will be multi-quoted, picked on and told that we are pathetic. Doesn't instill a whole lot of confidence regarding current PCOM students and their acceptance of diversity in all areas including points of view and knowledge of facts and opinions of a differing nature.🙄

 

[medhacker]

Doesn't instill a whole lot of confidence regarding current PCOM students and their acceptance of diversity in all areas including points of view and knowledge of facts and opinions of a differing nature.🙄

Poor victim, you get your comments refuted and that equates to lack of acceptance...hmm

I guess that's easier than admitting you were wrong in presenting your opinions about PCOM OMM program as facts, ok, that I can understand.

There are things that blow about PCOM, if and when you have been here for at least a year, come back and discuss them with some authority. In the mean time, maybe you want to have a spoon of your own medicine and be more accepting of the ideas of others who don't agree with you presenting your opinions as facts?... 😍

 

[daisymay83]

you crack me up medhacker!

spoons full of stuff, mincing words about opinions and facts and about a million posts when you're supposedly in medical school with a busy schedule. now I really want to go to pcom! if I have this much time on my hands when i'm in your shoes then that is fabulous. sign me up!

 

[Nickelpennykid]

That's great that Dr. Cuchera's stuff has been saving you, but it is too bad that the biggest portion of the lectures notes, which are from the Nicholas brothers, aren't helping. I mean, I have a friend that is a 2nd year there and he says that most of the lectures have been given by Dr. Alex and Evan this year so far. Hmm. I agree, it is too bad that Kirksville (he is from there, right???) seems to have lost an amazing Osteopathic physician, Dr. Cuchera. It is definitely their loss. But I hear that PCOM doesn't utilize him as much as they probably could due to the Nicholas brothers. Hopefully, Dr. Cuchera can be more of a force eventually at PCOM. Usually a great teacher produces great students, residents and attendings. I think it is great that he is there and I look forward to meeting the guy if I am accepted.

Thanks for the support firefly girl. I love PCOM, too, but apparently because I and slasherbob (which I guess I am mistaken for him by the paranoid posters Medhacker and Nickelpenny kid) have opinions we will be multi-quoted, picked on and told that we are pathetic. Doesn't instill a whole lot of confidence regarding current PCOM students and their acceptance of diversity in all areas including points of view and knowledge of facts and opinions of a differing nature.🙄

I am not sure why I would be paranoid. I could not be happier with the decision I made to attend this school. I do not care if you like PCOM or not and I do not care where you go to school. If you were to come up to me and say "I think the OMM dept sucks," I would say that I disagree and tell you why, but that would be the end of it. The problem occurs when you post your comments in a public place and then claim to know more than two students that are actually there. Other people read this, and while you are entitled to your opinion, you cannot present it as anymore than that. If your friend the second year would like to tell me how much she doesn't like the program, that would be fine.

 

[DOcat]

while everyone really does enjoy fighting, i figured I'd throw in a few, if not already mentioned, opinions. (why not, i'm at work, and really bored) Obviously, by my signature, I've decided to attend PCOM next fall. I also interviewed at comparable schools, and definately found PCOM's interview day not quite as indepth or "sales-like". Other visits included a "we're so amazing presentation", a "financial help" presentation, and alot of sitting around all day waiting to interview. While I felt very special at those schools, especially walking away with a fancy pen, the courtesy of PCOM students to stop in and talk with us randomly, the 3rd year that offered to help me find the class i wanted to sit in on, and the tour guides very honest and helpful answers really made me feel at home. I was able to get a demonstration of OMM at one school....but its not like the techniques or clinical practices change anywhere else. Schools fit people differently, and I, personally don't mind going somewhere that the med-students aren't mistaken for car salesmen. Just my opinion.

P.S. I plan on buying my own PCOM pen, because now i feel like a traitor carrying around all these others...

 

[superfan56]

the "family atmosphere" is used so often it sounds like a car salesman's pitch now. I cannot tell you how many times i've heard that from students or pre-meds. I'll be up there tomorrow actually.......