PCOM vs. LMU-DCOM

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dendrites

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PCOM and LMU-DCOM are the two schools I am considering right now. I am leaning more towards DCOM. People think I am crazy to not go to PCOM due to its amazing reputation for being one of the best DO schools out there. However, I was more impressed with DCOM. My question is: Exactly how important is the schools reputation in getting residencies (either osteo or allo)? How should I make this decision? The most important factors to me are: Which school will prepare me best for the board exams AND which school has the best rotations
Any help on how to make the decision would be much appreciated!


1. Board Prep
2. Rotations
3. Curriculum
4. Location
5. Price
6. Facilities
7. Class size (smaller classes better for individual assessment and cadaver time in anatomy)
8. Prestige




  • Board Prep
DCOM wins. Their test questions are written in board-style format and some of the professors write for the boards. The school pays for them to take Kaplan's board review prep class as well as having access to the Kaplan Qbank starting in December. They have about 2 months off to study for boards (may and june)


  • Rotations
PCOM wins. PCOM is known for their awesome rotation sites in the Philly area. I wouldn’t have to move around much during 3rd and 4th years. Both schools have a big number of electives to take 3rd and 4th year. DCOM is a newer school and the 3rd years are the first group to rotate through hospitals. From what I’ve heard, it’s been good so far and very organized.


  • Curriculum
Both are systems-based. However, I love how DCOM does their testing. You take the test, then you take the test with a group later in the day. I feel like this reinforces the information. Both schools have lots of early patient exposure.
On my interview day at PCOM, I talked to some 2nd year students (not the ambassadors) and they were complaining about disorganization of the 2nd year curriculum. I was kinda shocked by this since the school has been around for a long time!


  • Location
PHILLY!! I love Philadelphia—hands down! Also, I have family in the area.


  • Price
Comparable. 37K vs 34K (I think)
(although cost of living in philly is more expensive)



  • Facilities
I was much more impressed with LMU-DCOM…but, it IS a newer school. PCOM had an amazing athletic center though!!


  • DCOM has a smaller class size and a very family-like feel. It seems like the students really get to know the professors and each other.


  • Prestige. PCOM is known to be one of the best and oldest DO schools out there. It has an amazing reputation--most people seem to agree that PCOM is always in the top 5 Osteopathic schools and better than many Allopathic schools as well.
 
lI can't remember the last time I posted in the pre-osteo forums..... on a light rotation so what the hell...

I graduated from pcom and and now an intern...so take that bias for what it is. Also, I really don't know anything about DCOM. I'll go through point by point:




PCOM and LMU-DCOM are the two schools I am considering right now. I am leaning more towards DCOM. People think I am crazy to not go to PCOM due to its amazing reputation for being one of the best DO schools out there. However, I was more impressed with DCOM. My question is:
Exactly how important is the schools reputation in getting residencies (either osteo or allo)?

It is REGIONALLY very important...meaning that most of the residency programs & hospitals in the area have experience with pcom's students/residents/attendings and may feel more comfortable taking a "known entity". Outside of philly and the surrounding areas it is probably a wash for allopathic residency programs....as a DO school is a DO school. Most programs outside the area aren't going to gush over having a pcom grad as if he/she were from harvard or the like. If applying to an osteopathic program anywhere - the reputation can hold a lot of weight, as well as the likelihood that they have (hopefully) had good experiences w/ pcom grads in the past.


How should I make this decision? The most important factors to me are: Which school will prepare me best for theboard exams AND which school has the best rotations
both very important criteria, w/ the rotations being even more important.
Any help on how to make the decision would be much appreciated!


1. Board Prep
important
2. Rotations
EXTREMELY important
3. Curriculum
moderately important
4. Location

importance depends on the individual... good friends and family can make med school a whole lot more pleasant

important - a difference of a few grand a year is nothing... but > roughly 10K+/yr is definitely something to consider
6. Facilities

in my opinion - the most highly over-rated criteria...as long as the place isn't a total dump it should make no difference in your decision
7. Class size (smaller classes better for individual assessment and cadaver time in anatomy)


8. Prestige
regardless of how important it is to you and your career.....no one outside of the DO profession knows a damn thing about the "prestige" differences of DO schools. If you substitute prestige for something like "proven track record", then it may hold some water



  • Board Prep
DCOM wins. Their test questions are written in board-style format and some of the professors write for the boards. The school pays for them to take Kaplan's board review prep class as well as having access to the Kaplan Qbank starting in December. They have about 2 months off to study for boards (may and june)

formal board prep and enough time off are important...but nothing beats learning the material thoroughly the first time around during classes. I don't really know much about dcoms curriculum...but pcom certainly got the job done more then adequately. Regardless of the curriculum...it's up to each individual to learn their stuff well

  • Rotations
PCOM wins. PCOM is known for their awesome rotation sites in the Philly area. I wouldn’t have to move around much during 3rd and 4th years. Both schools have a big number of electives to take 3rd and 4th year. DCOM is a newer school and the 3rd years are the first group to rotate through hospitals. From what I’ve heard, it’s been good so far and very organized.

PCOM's are pretty decent as far as DO schools go in this regard and I couldn't imagine having to move around significantly month to month.
  • Curriculum
Both are systems-based. However, I love how DCOM does their testing. You take the test, then you take the test with a group later in the day. I feel like this reinforces the information. Both schools have lots of early patient exposure.
On my interview day at PCOM, I talked to some 2nd year students (not the ambassadors) and they were complaining about disorganization of the 2nd year curriculum. I was kinda shocked by this since the school has been around for a long time!

I talked about this a little bit above...also things may have changed, as it's been 3 years since I was an M2, but I was satisfied w/ it at pcom.

Taking the test w/ a group actually doesn't sound like that bad of an idea from a learning standpoint....but personally I'd rather gouge my eyes out then look at the test again later in the day after spending hours on it earlier in the day. Unless of course you went to happy hour before coming back....
  • Location
PHILLY!! I love Philadelphia—hands down! Also, I have family in the area.

nothing to add

  • Price
Comparable. 37K vs 34K (I think)
(although cost of living in philly is more expensive)

talked about this above....and it basically is a wash here. If you were deciding b/w these figures and TCOM's....you'd be crazy not to go w/ the lower
  • Facilities
I was much more impressed with LMU-DCOM…but, it IS a newer school. PCOM had an amazing athletic center though!!

as above

  • DCOM has a smaller class size and a very family-like feel. It seems like the students really get to know the professors and each other.

The large class size didn't seem to make a difference as things like anatomy, labs, omm, etc were always broken up into small groups/section...and lecture is lecture regardless of how many people are quietly listening. Then again...I didn't experience a small class size (and went to PSU for undergrad)...so maybe I don't know what I'm missing


  • Prestige. PCOM is known to be one of the best and oldest DO schools out there. It has an amazing reputation--most people seem to agree that PCOM is always in the top 5 Osteopathic schools and better than many Allopathic schools as well.
[/QUOTE]


as above



hope that helps and good luck w/ your decision
 
I was accepted at DCOM last year and was planning on attending..but had to bail for health reasons....and am now going to PCOM. DCOM has sick facilities....def top notch and I loved it. However the rotation situation worried me a bit. The dean and others tried to assure me that the rural setting would allow me to be "more involved" during rotations...but I wasnt buying it. Not talking negatively about DCOM....bc the school really impressed me...but I would pick PCOM hands down. Unless you are single, and fine with living in a very isolated environment. I couldnt deal with that personally. The students I met at DCOM mentioned this a lot...saying a lot of things like "well you really have no choice but to study all the time in Harrogate!" Eh.....yeah med school is about training to be the best doc you can be....but I am not willing to set aside 4 years of my life and do nothing but study. To each their own. Both schools have great attributes...but DCOMs lack of concentrated rotation sites freaked me out a bit...
 
What exactly do you mean, willen, by "lack of concentrated rotation sites"?

If I have understood correctly in my exposure to DCOM, you complete 3rd year basically in one region, with a few of the rotations being potentially up to 60 miles away. I am not sure about 4th year, but imagined it to be the same.

What is the issue with a set up like this?
 
They made it seem like rotations would be alllll over the place. I recall some rotations were in knoxville..which is something like an hour drive away. I recall them saying some rotations were in KY as well. The rotations are going to be rural community hospital type rotations..which obviously has plusses and minuses. If you are cool with all of this than that is fine! I wasnt. The location was mainly the killer for me. I like knowing I am in Philly....I have all that Philly has to offer, and all my rotations are going to be in the Philly metro area. Perhaps someone with more experience on where the actual rotations sites are in relation to the campus could chime in..because I dont want to give false information.

If you visit DCOM you will think these 2 things most likely:

Woah these facilities are brand new and shockingly nice and well appointed.

Woah this school is in the middle of nowhere....literally. I grew up in a pretty rural area but this is actually middle of nowhere. Knoxville is 50+ minutes away..and Knoxville isnt a huge city either. It is all up to what you are looking for. If you are looking to have limited distractions DCOM is for you. If you are an outdoorsman DCOM is for you. The mountains and countryside is absolutely stunning. I love the outdoors...but I also like having a variety of restaurants and bars, etc. (Isnt Harrogate in a dry county?)
 
They made it seem like rotations would be alllll over the place. I recall some rotations were in knoxville..which is something like an hour drive away. I recall them saying some rotations were in KY as well. The rotations are going to be rural community hospital type rotations..which obviously has plusses and minuses. If you are cool with all of this than that is fine! I wasnt. The location was mainly the killer for me. I like knowing I am in Philly....I have all that Philly has to offer, and all my rotations are going to be in the Philly metro area. Perhaps someone with more experience on where the actual rotations sites are in relation to the campus could chime in..because I dont want to give false information.

If you visit DCOM you will think these 2 things most likely:

Woah these facilities are brand new and shockingly nice and well appointed.

Woah this school is in the middle of nowhere....literally. I grew up in a pretty rural area but this is actually middle of nowhere. Knoxville is 50+ minutes away..and Knoxville isnt a huge city either. It is all up to what you are looking for. If you are looking to have limited distractions DCOM is for you. If you are an outdoorsman DCOM is for you. The mountains and countryside is absolutely stunning. I love the outdoors...but I also like having a variety of restaurants and bars, etc. (Isnt Harrogate in a dry county?)

Gotcha...I interviewed there last year but ended up on the waitlist and am preparing to interview there again. I think when they tell you there are rotation sites all over, it just means that there are options to go to any one of those hub sites basically. I could be wrong, but that is very much the way I understood it. They do a lottery type of system where you get to pick your top 3 sites and then if you aren't completely happy, you can switch around with classmates. I am still not 100% how long you stay at the first assignment though. I am hoping it's at least a year. I've moved too much in my life already!!

As far as the dry county thing goes...as an extreme beer lover, I sure hope not. I don't think it is (unless I am not correct in my definition of a dry county) because the pizza place that they host interviewees the night before (at least they did last year) served beer.
 
We have a rural rotation. That could send us pretty far away from Philadelphia, but not necessarily.

It's not that far away (and it's only 1 block out of 23-24 blocks)
http://www.pcom.edu/Clinical_Education/Affiliate_Lists_/affiliate_lists_.html#TypeRuralHealthcare
I did my rural rotation in PA Northeast, near Lehighton - only 1-2 hrs away from Philly/NYC and 30 minutes away from Lehigh valley (allentown/bethlehem)

One thing to keep in mind is that PCOM has been around a long time and have produced many physicians. Also, 1 in 6 doctors in the United States did some part of their medical training in Philadelphia (med school, residency, fellowship) so these docs would most likely have encountered PCOM students, residents, fellows, or attendings. Because of its long history and strong alumni base, there are many MDs who barely know anything about osteopathic education but will have heard of PCOM (to be fair, there is a regional bias since i'm from the Northeast - I'm sure the same can be said of KCOM or DMU). I'm fairly certain that outside osteopathic medicine, no one has ever heard of LMU/DCOM.

Being in Philadelphia have its advantages. In addition to the all the amenities of being in a large city, it;s also just 1 hr away from Atlantic City and the Jershey shore, 2 hrs from NYC, 2 hrs from Baltimore, 3 hrs to Washington DC, and 4-6 hrs to Boston. Plus it's also nice to have several large airports nearby should you want to travel.

One important advantages that PCOM have over DCOM is the interactions you can have as a MS1/MS2 with other philly area medical students (and you will certainly rotate with them as M3/MS4 on various rotations). Your attendings will likely have some sort of academic appointments at one of the philly medical schools (which will mean their comments and LORs will carry more weight)
 
Gotcha...I interviewed there last year but ended up on the waitlist and am preparing to interview there again. I think when they tell you there are rotation sites all over, it just means that there are options to go to any one of those hub sites basically. I could be wrong, but that is very much the way I understood it. They do a lottery type of system where you get to pick your top 3 sites and then if you aren't completely happy, you can switch around with classmates. I am still not 100% how long you stay at the first assignment though. I am hoping it's at least a year. I've moved too much in my life already!!

As far as the dry county thing goes...as an extreme beer lover, I sure hope not. I don't think it is (unless I am not correct in my definition of a dry county) because the pizza place that they host interviewees the night before (at least they did last year) served beer.

It is dry. I read that PCOM has its own hospital? Is that correct? It is nice when a medical school has clinical departments and clinical faculty as their preceptors. It is more convenient to get reccomendations and the quality of your, some would say most critical training, is monitored by the school. Alot of osteo schools send their students to all these sites where the Docs there are not really working for the school, working part time for the school, or just doing it on the side.....from my impression. Don't get me wrong I love the concept of Osteopathic medicine, absolutely love it....just the education of it at certain places may not be as good as allo because alot of osteo schools are not directly associated with a hospital and alot lack clinical departments that are directly responsible for clinical education. HOWEVER, PCOM from what I have heard does not have these issues. PCOM, TCOM, MSU and WVSOM (LECOM and Pikeville would get honorable mention). would probably be the most prestigious according to that crusty old US NEWS And world report (actually its this years' report). http://www.aacom.org/resources/ome/2009-05/Pages/usnews.aspx

Good luck with your decision. You are lucky you have a choice!!!
 
I don't know where everyone gets that we have our own hospital? We don't, but use several that are very close by... but we are in Philadelphia afterall.


PCOM did have a hospital at one point in time no? Bacchus...are you a tour guide at PCOM? I have this weird feeling you gave my interview group a tour
 
I don't know where everyone gets that we have our own hospital? We don't, but use several that are very close by... but we are in Philadelphia afterall.

Maybe they're thinking about the old hospital? Or the healthcare clinics?
 
Honestly I would go for PCOM, if you got into there, congrats.
 
I don't know where everyone gets that we have our own hospital? We don't, but use several that are very close by... but we are in Philadelphia afterall.


My bad.....I always thought that they do. :/ Still its an excellent school.
 
The hospital was sold to 6ABC. Its cheaper to pay for us to rotate then fund a hospital... or so I've heard.
Pay for us???!! hardly... they don't pay anyone anything for us to rotate at our affiliated hospital sites.

So you're correct FREE <<< whatever the hospital cost
 
They made it seem like rotations would be alllll over the place. I recall some rotations were in knoxville..which is something like an hour drive away. I recall them saying some rotations were in KY as well. The rotations are going to be rural community hospital type rotations..which obviously has plusses and minuses.

(Isnt Harrogate in a dry county?)

Rotations aren't all over the place. Those were the different core site options they were pointing out. Some core sites are in Knoxville, some are in Kentucky, etc. The rural community hospital rotations are two rotations in the 4th year where you have to do everything because there's no one upstairs to unload patients on.

The county is dry, but there are two bars in Cumberland Gap. People buy alcohol at Pappy's in Virginia.
 
Rotations aren't all over the place. Those were the different core site options they were pointing out. Some core sites are in Knoxville, some are in Kentucky, etc. The rural community hospital rotations are two rotations in the 4th year where you have to do everything because there's no one upstairs to unload patients on.

The county is dry, but there are two bars in Cumberland Gap. People buy alcohol at Pappy's in Virginia.

And don't you stay in that same area for the entirety of the third year? Then switch for the 4th year?
 
And don't you stay in that same area for the entirety of the third year? Then switch for the 4th year?


Your core hospital lasts for six months in 3rd year. After that you can go wherever you want, even out of state. You have some 4th year requirements back near your core (a total of 4 months I think), but the rest of 4th year can likewise be done wherever you want.

And you rank your top 20 schedules in the lottery. There are something like 180 schedules (~24-40 at each core location) and you can mix and match how you please. The cores are in the East TN/Appalachian area mostly, but they are adding others. For instance, they just added some in Memphis for this coming year.

I wouldn't tell anyone to pick one school over another because it's a very personal decision, but I've loved my time at DCOM and wouldn't change my decision.
 
Rotations aren't all over the place. Those were the different core site options they were pointing out. Some core sites are in Knoxville, some are in Kentucky, etc. The rural community hospital rotations are two rotations in the 4th year where you have to do everything because there's no one upstairs to unload patients on.

The county is dry, but there are two bars in Cumberland Gap. People buy alcohol at Pappy's in Virginia.

I hope you guys dont think I was insulting DCOM....because I was really blown away by the facilities and few professors I met. Like I said I had my deposit down on DCOM for last year..but bailed because of health reasons...and PCOM ended up being a better match for my girlfriend and I. Thanks for clarifying about the rotations.
 
Your core hospital lasts for six months in 3rd year. After that you can go wherever you want, even out of state. You have some 4th year requirements back near your core (a total of 4 months I think), but the rest of 4th year can likewise be done wherever you want.

And you rank your top 20 schedules in the lottery. There are something like 180 schedules (~24-40 at each core location) and you can mix and match how you please. The cores are in the East TN/Appalachian area mostly, but they are adding others. For instance, they just added some in Memphis for this coming year.

I wouldn't tell anyone to pick one school over another because it's a very personal decision, but I've loved my time at DCOM and wouldn't change my decision.

Thanks for the details! So I guess if you are trying to stay mostly in one area, it can be achieved, with a few exceptions here and there throughout the two years. I really just want to be able to establish a fairly stable homebase if possible!

I hope you guys dont think I was insulting DCOM....because I was really blown away by the facilities and few professors I met. Like I said I had my deposit down on DCOM for last year..but bailed because of health reasons...and PCOM ended up being a better match for my girlfriend and I. Thanks for clarifying about the rotations.

Haha I don't think anyone was offended. I'm pretty hardcore about going to DCOM and I wasn't. Everyone's different, which is why it's good that there are multiple schools with multiple program types. 🙂
 
Its really all up to you, you are going to do the hard work, both schools are excellent choices.
 
2 months off for boards? I don't think we got 2 months off ... maybe 1 month (including Kaplan). Who said the tests were "board style?" However, they are continuously changing things, so maybe the 2 months off thing is true for the upcoming classes, lucky them.

That's the one thing about DCOM - they are good about listening to students and making changes. I doubt PCOM would do that since they're well-established. However, PCOM is PCOM - highly reputable and a huge alumni network. They do say it's more about "who you know" ... however, the docs at DCOM are reputable within the osteopathic profession, so DCOM doesn't truly lose out in that regards either.

I didn't apply to PCOM - I'm a southerner and so I chose to stay in the South. If I was a Northerner, I'd probably go PCOM (naturally).
 
thanks for everyone who gave me input. It was a tough choice but I just submitted my deposit to LMU-DCOM.

I went with where I felt I would be the most successful-- and that's different for everyone. Although DCOM is a newER school, I feel that it has the potential to be one of the best osteopathic medical schools in the next few years because they have everything it takes to be successful. The main thing I was worried about with this choice were rotation sites and "reputation". However, after talking to several 3rd year students, it seems like all of the sites are solid and that the students are getting to do some awesome things and even outshining the interns! As for the reputation, I dont think it's that important since I don't plan on staying in the Philly area for residency. Also- I think in the end, it all depends on how good the student is.
Both schools were excellent but the students I met at DCOM seemed happier and more friendly. I think I was a little spoiled to see those facilities first because after going there, no other place looks as good!

good luck to everyone making tough decisions in the future! go with your gut! I'm going to withdraw my acceptance from PCOM and hopefully my spot will go to the person that wants it the most!

All the best,
Dendrites
 
It is inaccurate to say DCOM's test questions are "board style" as most of them are far from it (some are very nit picky detail oriented).

In terms of location, we are in the middle of nowhere. Don't expect to find an applebee's within 50 miles.

Our core rotation sites range from birmingham, al to memphis, to crossville, knoxville and kinsport. Also a few in KY. After 6 months of core (bh, ob, peds, im, im, surg), you are allowed to do 2 electives, 2 selectives, 1 month of FP, and a vacation 3rd year. 4th year is pretty much in the air, with the only required rotations as EM and 2 months of community hospital.

For board, we have may and half of june basically (you must complete boards before you go to rotations).

PM me for more information.

I am a 2nd year at LMU-DCOM.
 
Should have picked PCOM. Your only on campus for 2 years. The facilities are not even that big of a deal, plus the school is old.

I believe reputation is where its at, plus you have family in Philly. Big plus when you are having one of those days that you just want to get away from it and spend some TLC. Plus is awesome here.
 
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