PCOM vs. Low Tier MD school

[Medstudent85]

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Please, can we all try to be civil and not bash any particular program and just discuss your honest opinion.

From what I have gathered reading this forum, PCOM is regarded by most as the top DO school in the nation.

If you were faced with the decision of attending PCOM, or a low tier MD such as any Puerto Rican school (just to cite an example)

Who would you choose ? and Why ?

 

[Character]

Please, can we all try to be civil and not bash any particular program and just discuss your honest opinion.

From what I have gathered reading this forum, PCOM is regarded by most as the top DO school in the nation.

If you were faced with the decision of attending PCOM, or a low tier MD such as any Puerto Rican school (just to cite an example)

Who would you choose ? and Why ?

pcom is pretty awesome. so...why is your name medstudent if you arent a med student?

 

[Medstudent85]

yea, I thought about that AFTER I created my username.. its a bit misleading I know... but.. you still didnt answer my question heh

 

[Character]

yea, I thought about that AFTER I created my username.. its a bit misleading I know... but.. you still didnt answer my question heh

pcom, no doubt about it..now, if i had to choose between pcom and ros franklin...that would be a tougher choice...but thats based on personal preference.

 

[DrBowtie]

Cheapest option.

 

[bobsagat]

I'd actually take TCOM over either. Highest DO board scores in the nation and right in my backyard (and totally dirt cheap, too!)

 

[Leejwwc]

If you want to practice in the States, there is really no difference between an MD and a DO. Both can get certified to practice in any medical or surgical subspecialty. I think about 50% (or slightly under) of DOs choose to do an allopathic residency though. If that is what you want, then going MD might be better since allopathic med students generally have first priority for allopathic residencies. I'm not sure what the advantage is, if any, to doing an allopathic vs. an osteopathic residency. Of course, you may also want to consider where you would eventually like to practice. Some states, like MI, are very DO friendly - they have a large proportion of osteopathic physicians and patients are more familiar with the title. Ironically, I am from a state with two DO schools but it seems like osteopathic medicine is relatively unknown there.

Edit: But if you want to practice abroad, some countries actually do not recognize the American DO yet. Many do, so you need to check on each country specifically.

 

[193250]

If it were in PR, do the DO. But if you got into an allopathic school, I'd do that no questions asked.

 

[Medstudent85]

bobsagat . TCOM accepts very few OOS, thanks for the replies so far

 

[Decicco]

If St. George's University is an option, I'd choose that. Its an MD school and although its not in the US, it is still is more competitive than most DO schools. As an added bonus, you don't have to spend hundreds of hours on OMM or take additional boards. You also would have a chance (albeit small) of being able to transfer into a US MD school, most of which do not consider transfers from osteopath schools. I know someone in a Caribbean program now, and he spends one year there, one year in mexico, and does his last two years in the UK. He gets to be a Medical Doctor and they have close relationships with US residencies.

I don't know very much about PR programs so I can't speak to that.

 

[Leejwwc]

If St. George’s University is an option, I'd choose that. Its an MD school and although its not in the US, it is still is more competitive than most DO schools. As an added bonus, you don't have to learn OMM or take additional boards. You also would have a chance (albeit small) of being able to transfer into a US MD school, most of which do not consider transfers from osteopath schools. I know someone in a Caribbean program now, and he spends one year there, one year in mexico, and does his last two years in the UK. He gets to be a Medical Doctor and they have close relationships with US residencies.

I don't know very much about PR programs so I can't speak to that.

I've actually heard that preference for US allo residencies goes 1) US MD, 2) US DO, 3) any FMG. Maybe a med student can clarify?

 

[Decicco]

I've actually heard that preference for US allo residencies goes 1) US MD, 2) US DO, 3) any FMG. Maybe a med student can clarify?

My understanding is that this is generally true. However, unlike US-MD schools, the quality among both C-MD and DO schools is uneven and some are much better than others. So, I would expect there to be a fair amount of overlap, especially in the case of SGU. Another factor of getting into a good residency is how much research you contribute to the field. SGU offers a good amount of research while many DO schools are abysmal in this department.

Of course, when asking this question, you have to consider the motive of those who answer it. It is unfortunate that there are so few C-MD or pre-CMD students on these forums. There are, however, many pre-MD and pre-DO students. So, take into account how many people may be defending their own career decisions rather than trying to offer objective advice.

Good luck

 

[Leejwwc]

My understanding is that this is generally true. However, unlike US-MD schools, the quality among both C-MD and DO schools is uneven and some are much better than others. So, I would expect there to be a fair amount of overlap, especially in the case of SGU.

How does SGU compare to Ross or AUC? Are they pretty equivalent in terms of reputation in the US or is SGU considered the best of the 3?

 

[193250]

Don't do a Caribbean MD, unless you want to get into major debt and have nothing to show for it. Anything in the US is better than foreign.

Or you could actually just do Carribean and save some spots for me in the US.

 

[MilkmanAl]

It seems to me like SGU is far and away the best Caribbean school, but I would much rather "settle" for a DO program than go overseas. There are too many pitfalls involved with foreign schools.

 

[Medstudent85]

Caribbean would not be an option for me, that is why I didn't include it originally. They are IMO, below the top DO programs.

 

[193250]

Caribbean would not be an option for me, that is why I didn't include it originally. They are IMO, below the top DO programs.

You, my friend, are a smart man👍

 

[Decicco]

Caribbean would not be an option for me, that is why I didn't include it originally. They are IMO, below the top DO programs.

But you are considering PR schools? Now I'm confused. SGU is the best way to get an MD outside the US, so if you don't want to go there then DO would be the only other option. I don't see where PR factors into the equation.

 

[bobsagat]

bobsagat . TCOM accepts very few OOS, thanks for the replies so far

Ah yes, that is true. I'd go with PCOM, then, espeically if you're into primary care of any kind.

If you want to practice in the States, there is really no difference between an MD and a DO. Both can get certified to practice in any medical or surgical subspecialty. I think about 50% (or slightly under) of DOs choose to do an allopathic residency though. If that is what you want, then going MD might be better since allopathic med students generally have first priority for allopathic residencies.

This is ESPECIALLY true of most surgical residencies. Not sure about the differences between surgical specialties, but I know that's the case. I only know this because I may end up on the bubble between DO and MD, and super duper want to do surgery.

If you're into surgery, it might actually be better to go CaribMD. Haven't done the research on that, though.

 

[Medstudent85]

But you are considering PR schools? Now I'm confused. SGU is the best way to get an MD outside the US, so if you don't want to go there then DO would be the only other option. I don't see where PR factors into the equation.

Yea man, PR are US 100 percent accredited medical schools. They match into better residency spots than SGU, therefore PR>>SGU , the only downfall is that most of the education is taught in Spanish, I am fluent in Spanish, but this still stirs me away from them.

 

[Decicco]

Yea man, PR are US 100 percent accredited medical schools. They match into better residency spots than SGU, therefore PR>>SGU , the only downfall is that most of the education is taught in Spanish, I am fluent in Spanish, but this still stirs me away from them.

Neat, I had no idea. If you are fluent in Spanish I don't see how this could even be a question. Ponce and UCdCSoM say lectures are given in both languages. Not sure about San Juan Bautista.

SGU is a respectable school. If these PR schools are better, then the choice is clear.

 

[Medstudent85]

well I have a friend thats currently attending Ponce, she says all lectures are in spanish, but the material (powerpoints, exams, etc) is all in English.

Well Decicco, its a question because I'm concerned with their matching results vs the matching results of top DO programs.

 

[TehDoc]

Go to PCOM over a low tier MD school. It's the reasonable choice.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Neat, I had no idea.

Seems to be a common theme ...

This is a cross thread with pre-Osteo, one should be closed. SGU's match list really doesn't compare with any DO match list, and your friends journey of the Caribbean to Mexico to the UK sounds like a BLAST. Definitely worth it for the MD ... he will probably match integrated plastics too. Mexico training > DO (thanks).

Don't go the the Caribbean, the PR option is MUCH better if you have to go down the road. DO > Both those options - especially in the match.

 

[Depakote]

I'm pretty sure the Puerto Rico Schools have a strong bias towards PR residents and native spanish speakers. They might not be as easy to get into as you think.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Sooner or later this thread will get locked.

 

[Decicco]

I'm pretty sure the Puerto Rico Schools have a strong bias towards PR residents and native spanish speakers. They might not be as easy to get into as you think.

This is true. Have you considered this, OP? Also, I noticed that the MCAT averages are lower than those at SGU. Yet the PR has better match rates. Anyone know why that may be? I've usually dismissed non-50 states MDs, but they don't seem that bad afterall.

 

[MrBurns10]

The pre-allo forum is funny. Every other day, there are threads where everyone vehemently denies that "tiers" exist nor matter for med schools. Then, there will be threads where people mention low-tier MD schools and everyone accepts the label as fact.

I've found the best thing to do is just read and not ask questions...

 

[Chocolate Bear]

The pre-allo forum is funny. Every other day, there are threads where everyone vehemently denies that "tiers" exist nor matter for med schools. Then, there will be threads where people mention low-tier MD schools and everyone accepts the label as fact.

I've found the best thing to do is just read and not ask questions...

I think very few would disagree that offshore MD schools are on a lower "tier" than the rest (for many reasons), regardless of how many tiers separate the stateside schools (be they real or imaginary tiers).

I'm, of course, speaking about the route of US students resorting to these methods--not the actual quality of any non-US school.

 

[MrBurns10]

I think very few would disagree that offshore MD schools are on a lower "tier" than the rest (for many reasons), regardless of how many tiers separate the stateside schools (be they real or imaginary tiers).

I'm of course speaking about the route of US students resorting to these methods--not the actual quality of any non-US school.

Right, but the OP wasn't trying to compare Caribbean schools to DO, he was comparing "low tier" stateside MD schools to "the best" DO school. I just thought it was interesting that people in this thread aren't questioning the existence of "low tier" MD schools, whereas in other threads the existence of tiers is vehemently argued against.

 

[Decicco]

Right, but the OP wasn't trying to compare Caribbean schools to DO, he was comparing "low tier" stateside MD schools to "the best" DO school. I just thought it was interesting that people in this thread aren't questioning the existence of "low tier" MD schools, whereas in other threads the existence of tiers is vehemently argued against.

These are Puerto Rican schools, so not "stateside." I agree that comparing a stateside MD to DO school doesn't make sense, and that stateside MD schools are pretty standard on quality.

 

[J1515]

Please, can we all try to be civil and not bash any particular program and just discuss your honest opinion.

From what I have gathered reading this forum, PCOM is regarded by most as the top DO school in the nation.

If you were faced with the decision of attending PCOM, or a low tier MD such as any Puerto Rican school (just to cite an example)

Who would you choose ? and Why ?

Stop worrying about tiers and rankings and go where you will be happiest (ie: do the best, closest to family/friends) for the next 4 years.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Right, but the OP wasn't trying to compare Caribbean schools to DO, he was comparing "low tier" stateside MD schools to "the best" DO school. I just thought it was interesting that people in this thread aren't questioning the existence of "low tier" MD schools, whereas in other threads the existence of tiers is vehemently argued against.

When he mentioned PR, my mind went to the Caribbean, not X College of Medicine here in the states. But I know what you mean.

 

[JaggerPlate]

These are Puerto Rican schools, so not "stateside." I agree that comparing a stateside MD to DO school doesn't make sense, and that stateside MD schools are pretty standard on quality.

Why can't you compare US MD and US DO schools?? I would also be shocked if all US MD schools were of the same quality. I thought people lived for the rankings which prove just that.

 

[bcat85]

Don't do a Caribbean MD, unless you want to get into major debt and have nothing to show for it. Anything in the US is better than foreign.

Or you could actually just do Carribean and save some spots for me in the US.

I agree with this. OP, if you have the chance to go to M.D. school in the US, go for that, but PCOM is a great school, and I would go for that over a foreign school for sure.

 

[MrBurns10]

These are Puerto Rican schools, so not "stateside." I agree that comparing a stateside MD to DO school doesn't make sense, and that stateside MD schools are pretty standard on quality.

Well, he was just using PR schools as an example...and I think they're still considered US allo schools. But don't get me wrong, I think it's totally fine to compare schools, especially how they fit a particular individual's goals.

 

[Leejwwc]

Why can't you compare US MD and US DO schools?? I would also be shocked if all US MD schools were of the same quality. I thought people lived for the rankings which prove just that.

A better way to phrase it is that all US MD schools are equally held to the same high standards set by the LCME. Schools that do not meet these standards can and have lost accredidation. In that regard, they are comparable in terms of the formal education they provide, analogous to attending any respected college or university - you will acquire the same basic skill set. The difference in med school rankings really comes down to research. Some higher ranked schools have significantly (sometimes on the order of 10-20X) the amount of funding as some lower ranked schools. There is very serious basic and clinical science being conducted at these research schools and they produce much of the literature and new therapies and interventions that come out into the field. The real advantage of going to one of these schools is not so much a different formal education, but the opportunity to learn in an environment where professors are often setting the mark in their field, and have exposure to or even participate in the new research in these areas.

 

[Decicco]

SJB has almost no non-Puerto Rican matriculants. Among all PR schools, the number of enrolled students who arent Puerto Rican is in the single digits. I assume the OP took this into consideration.

Well, he was just using PR schools as an example...and I think they're still considered US allo schools. But don't get me wrong, I think it's totally fine to compare schools, especially how they fit a particular individual's goals.

Oh, OK. I agree about comparing schools--when I said that MD schools have a "standard" quality, I should have clarified by saying that they all meet a certain standard. Accrediation of MD schools is a very rigorous process. Of course, there are some schools which "jump" way above the bar, and the difference (as stated by another poster above) mostly comes down to research, but also what hospitals are in their network, breadth of the patient population, etc. Other differences are more subjective (location, student personalities, etc).

Thus, it is OK to compare MD schools, but it should be noted that they all meet a high standard of quality.

 

[JaggerPlate]

.

Oh, OK. I agree about comparing schools--when I said that MD schools have a "standard" quality, I should have clarified by saying that they all meet a certain standard. Accrediation of MD schools is a very rigorous process. Of course, there are some schools which "jump" way above the bar, and the difference (as stated by another poster above) mostly comes down to research, but also what hospitals are in their network, breadth of the patient population, etc. Other differences are more subjective (location, student personalities, etc).

gotcha.

 

[Medstudent85]

thanks for all the replies, and for keeping this rather bashing-less

 

[ZapBranniganMD]

Being in the same position as you currently, I have done a fair amount of research. There are a few ways to look at it and some of the previous posts have stated them. If your thinking about primary care only, then DO programs are great and there really is not difference between the going to DO or MD program. Even if you, even in the least, are thinking about specializing, then choose the MD program. As someone stated earlier, Allopathic residencies give 1st priority to MD, then DO, then Foreign.

Personally, I strongly feel that I will want to specialize so I will choose an MD program. I go the chance to talk to someone who transferred to a PR school from Temple and he said that it was really nice but getting a residency was really really tough (he did Family Practice). Frankly if you want to go into primary care, go to the school that you feel you will be the successful. If you want to specialize then choose an MD school if you get the chance. Push comes to shove, the most important thing is going to be doing well in whatever school you choose.

Good Luck

 

[ChubbyChaser]

PCOM>>>>>>>Puerto Rican school

Any US MD school> than PCOM

For me anyways, unless of course PCOM gave me a full ride.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Being in the same position as you currently, I have done a fair amount of research. There are a few ways to look at it and some of the previous posts have stated them. If your thinking about primary care only, then DO programs are great and there really is not difference between the going to DO or MD program. Even if you, even in the least, are thinking about specializing, then choose the MD program. As someone stated earlier, Allopathic residencies give 1st priority to MD, then DO, then Foreign.

Personally, I strongly feel that I will want to specialize so I will choose an MD program. I go the chance to talk to someone who transferred to a PR school from Temple and he said that it was really nice but getting a residency was really really tough (he did Family Practice). Frankly if you want to go into primary care, go to the school that you feel you will be the successful. If you want to specialize then choose an MD school if you get the chance. Push comes to shove, the most important thing is going to be doing well in whatever school you choose.

Good Luck

Umm you realize that DOs have their own residencies in Derm, Ortho, NeuroSurg...etc.

So, no.

 

[193250]

PCOM>>>>>>>Puerto Rican school

Any US MD school> than PCOM

For me anyways, unless of course PCOM gave me a full ride.

I agree, and if PCOM gave you a full ride, it'd also be possible that some MD schools would give you some offers 👍

 

[Decicco]

Being in the same position as you currently, I have done a fair amount of research. There are a few ways to look at it and some of the previous posts have stated them. If your thinking about primary care only, then DO programs are great and there really is not difference between the going to DO or MD program. Even if you, even in the least, are thinking about specializing, then choose the MD program. As someone stated earlier, Allopathic residencies give 1st priority to MD, then DO, then Foreign.
...
Frankly if you want to go into primary care, go to the school that you feel you will be the successful. If you want to specialize then choose an MD school if you get the chance. Push comes to shove, the most important thing is going to be doing well in whatever school you choose.

This is a fair analysis. You should note, however, that some DOs can get into specialty residencies too. However, several things are working to limit this--the number of specialty residency seats are staying the same, the number of DO schools are increasing in an entrepreneurial fashion, and there is a huge shortage of primary care physicians. I agree that an MD is best if you want to specialize, and that this trend is likely to strengthen in the future.

 

[coldweatherblue]

What do you want to do after you get your medical degree?

If you want to practice a form of medicine that requires an allopathic residency, go to an MD school.

If you want to practice osteopathic medicine, go to a DO school.

 

[Bacchus]

Not to defend PCOM, but it places people well. Its a school all its own and the consensus around Philadelphia is that some of the best physicians are coming out of that school. It holds its own with the other Philadelphian schools.

 

[tkim]

As someone stated earlier, Allopathic residencies give 1st priority to MD, then DO, then Foreign.

Um, no. You should really try to speak about things you know of.

 

[TexasPhysician]

To give you an accurate answer on which school is best for you, it would be nice to know what specialties you are most interested in, the cost of attending both schools (including living costs at both places), and which location would make you happiest. Those are the most important considerations in my opinion.

You are going to face stigmas at either schools, but who really cares? If you work hard and do lots of research, you could potentially enter any specialty from any school. Sure D.O.'s have some of their own residencies, but I wouldn't consider that in my decision making for schools. From what I've heard from many current D.O.'s in practice is that many of the subspecialty D.O. residency programs are poorly taught. I can not verify this myself. I can only say that with the opinions I've heard, having their own residency programs is not a big enough plus to consider it in choosing schools.

Everyone is considered for U.S. allopathic residencies, so go where you will be happiest and return with the least debt.

 

[Medstudent85]

To give you an accurate answer on which school is best for you, it would be nice to know what specialties you are most interested in, the cost of attending both schools (including living costs at both places), and which location would make you happiest. Those are the most important considerations in my opinion.

.

Specialties: I love them all, 🙁 .. I've shadowed OB/GYN, Internist, Cardiologist, Dermatologist, Plastic Surgery and truly I could do either one and be a happy doctor. Maybe I just got lucky and had some great mentors.

Cost: VERY IMPORTANT , I would love to leave with the least debt possible over going to School X (better name) over school Y.

Location: Least Important, but I grew up on a tropical island, and have lived in Miami all my life therefore a similar climate would be the best.. but not a determining factor.

thats about it