Pediatric Critical Care

[Willamette]

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How does one get involved with this specialty? Does completion of a CC fellowship prepare you, or would you have to have some dedicated peds experience too?


Willamette

 

[Willamette]

My understanding is that it is a field in which you go through Peds as the primary residency track.

I know that that's certainly one way to do it, but I also recall seeing an anesthesiology/critical care doc earlier this year during my peds surgery rotation. I suppose that, if all else fails, I could go back and try to look him up.

Willamette

 

[Willamette]

B-U-M-P


Anyone with any experience at all with the anesthesia pathway to pediatric critical care?

Apparently some people do:

http://anesthesia.duhs.duke.edu/divisions/pediatric-ccm.html


http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/anesthesiology/Fellowships/fellow_peds.html


Willamette

 

[zissou]

Ok this is how it works, and you are sort of right. I am pretty much an authority on this subject because I am in my 6th year of training and a fellow in Anesthesia and Critical Care @ the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. So here goes.

If you want to be a board certified Pediatric Intensivist you have to do a full pediatric residency (3 years), become board certified in pediatrics, then complete 3 years of fellowship training in pediatric critical care and pass that board as well: all told 6 years of training.

Now. The person you are refering too who did anesthesia and critical care grandfathered or mothered in to boards in both specialties without doing a full pediatric residency, which has not been allowed in over 10 years. If you want to do pediatric anesthesia and pediatric critical care there is only one way to do it now to satisfy all the boards (which is what I am in the process of completing!)
1. Full 3 years of a pediatric residency
2. Full 3 years of Anesthesia
3. 2 years of Pediatric Critical Care Fellowship
Total= 8 years of training. Unfortunately this is the bargain minimun, although you/I will be triple boarded.

I hope this clears it up a bit. So simply you can not do pediatric critical care, without doing a pediatric residecy first no matter what course you may take in the future.
Good luck

 

[codequeen]

How does one get involved with this specialty? Does completion of a CC fellowship prepare you, or would you have to have some dedicated peds experience too?


Willamette

The only way to get certified in Pediatric Critical Care is to do a Pediatric residency first THEN Pediatric CCM fellowship.

Anesthesiology has separate fellowships in Pediatric Anesthesiology which usually includes time in the Pedi ICU but does not lead specifically to certification in this field.\\\

At the present time Pediatric Anesthesiology fellowships do not lead to subspecialty board certification but I hear thru the grapevine that this may change in the future

Hope this is helpful! :

 

[Willamette]

Great info zissou & codequeen! Thank you guys very much!

Willamette

 

[Gator05]

Great info zissou & codequeen! Thank you guys very much!

Willamette

Great info zissou & codequeen! Thank you guys very much!

Willamette

Peds CCM journal a couple of mos ago ahd an article about the shortage of peds cardiac intensivists. Now, this is quite the niche, but the numbers were impressive; a current shortage expected to expand in the next several years. There were opinions and positions in these articles of the need to open up additional avenues of training, via cardiac anesthesiology for instance. I would opine that very specialized ICU's should be the trend for hospitals, since it promotes standardized patient care through a more focused clinical team.

In my own opinion, there's gonna be a big crunch for peds intensivists in the coming years. The burnout rate is supposed to be quite high, and from the NRMP fellowship match numbers the past few years, LOTS of slots are going unfilled each year. They would be wise to open it to a 2-year fellowship for anesthesiologists with 75% clinical time, 25% research/academic. Perhaps peds anesthesia training could be part of the fellowship, since there is a fair amount of overlap in peds anesthesia/peds cards post-op/peds cards anesthesia.

The trend I've noted with peds programs is towards the well-rounded pediatrician. More attention is focused on "child advocacy", "school participation", and other public-health types of issues. With the upcoming minimum of 6 mos minimum ICU time in anesthesiology, anesthesia residents would arguably be in a better position to train for peds CCM than would peds residents.

 

[OldManDave]

Damned concise explanation there zissou! You saved me the trouble of 3-finger typing it myself. I entered med school with the express intent of doing peds ICU - spent 10+ years in PICUs as a resp therapist. But, anethesiology caught my eye & here I am going to be a gas passer in 2.5 years. Anyhow, while a 3rd & 4th year med student, the Med Dir of PICU was one of the grandfathered anesthesiology/Peds CCM guys...he had actually been a pediatrician for a few years, did anesthesia & then went to CHoP to do his Peds CCM.

Anyhow...I digress & ramble...tired & need to go to bed!

Thanks for the explanation!

 

[I Am Babycakes]

Resurrecting this thread. I am thinking about Peds Critical Care and was hoping to do it through the anesthesia pathway but reading this thread it appears you have to do the full peds and full anesthesia residency followed by ccm fellowship. Is that still the case in 2010? Haven't been able to find any info elsewhere and the anesthesia attendings at my school don't seem to know either.

 

[countingdays]

https://www.abp.org/ABPWebStatic/#murl=/ABPWebStatic/home.htmlhttps://www.abp.org/ABPWebStatic/#m...website/certinfo/subspec/eligibil/gencrit.htm

GENERAL CRITERIA FOR CERTIFICATION IN THE PEDIATRIC SUBSPECIALTIES

1. Certification by the American Board of Pediatrics (ABP)A candidate for subspecialty certification must have achieved initial certification in general pediatrics and continue to maintain general pediatrics certification in order to take a subspecialty examination. No exceptions to this policy will be granted.

 

[IlDestriero]

Resurrecting this thread. I am thinking about Peds Critical Care and was hoping to do it through the anesthesia pathway but reading this thread it appears you have to do the full peds and full anesthesia residency followed by ccm fellowship. Is that still the case in 2010? Haven't been able to find any info elsewhere and the anesthesia attendings at my school don't seem to know either.

+ a year of peds anesthesia. I'll hire you, in 9 years.

 

[Southpaw]

Resurrecting this thread. I am thinking about Peds Critical Care and was hoping to do it through the anesthesia pathway but reading this thread it appears you have to do the full peds and full anesthesia residency followed by ccm fellowship. Is that still the case in 2010? Haven't been able to find any info elsewhere and the anesthesia attendings at my school don't seem to know either.

https://www.abp.org/abpwebsite/certinfo/genpeds/anesreq.htm

So if you can find a program that offers the newly formed dual residency program, you can save yourself year and become boarded in Peds and Anesthesiology.

Then you'd need to do Peds CC fellowship (2-3 years), and you'd need another year for Peds Anesthesiology fellowship.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

https://www.abp.org/abpwebsite/certinfo/genpeds/anesreq.htm

So if you can find a program that offers the newly formed dual residency program, you can save yourself year and become boarded in Peds and Anesthesiology.

Then you'd need to do Peds CC fellowship (2-3 years), and you'd need another year for Peds Anesthesiology fellowship.

The one place on the interview trail I remembered explicitly talking about it was Hopkins. I had mentioned the possibility of doing peds or critical care, and the PD brought up the new dual residency. I don't think they have it yet, but it sounded like it was in the cards, anyway.

 

[Stitch]

The one place on the interview trail I remembered explicitly talking about it was Hopkins. I had mentioned the possibility of doing peds or critical care, and the PD brought up the new dual residency. I don't think they have it yet, but it sounded like it was in the cards, anyway.

A number of the Hopkins peds CCM also do peds anesthesia, and I think some of them were originally anesthesia trained. They have a program that will board you in anesthesia and peds CCM (takes 5 years), but that's after a 3 year peds residency.

Pittsburgh also seems to have a similar program that might cut out a year or two but board you in all three. Here's their web site, but I don't know details and haven't looked into it all that much.

The earlier comments about job openings in peds CCM seem to be true, and there will be a demand for those boarded, especially if you have cardiac (congenital heart defects with repair and ECMO) experience.

 

[I Am Babycakes]

Thanks for the responses. They have been very helpful. I'll be applying for residency this coming academic year. Hopefully they'll be some accredited combined peds and anesthesia programs by that time. How do I find these programs? Is it just by word of mouth or is there a website listing them? I don't see any listed on frieda currently.

 

[Stitch]

Thanks for the responses. They have been very helpful. I'll be applying for residency this coming academic year. Hopefully they'll be some accredited combined peds and anesthesia programs by that time. How do I find these programs? Is it just by word of mouth or is there a website listing them? I don't see any listed on frieda currently.

Very difficult to find (I know only because I thought seriously about boarding in anesthesia), and there are only 3-4 programs that I've ever heard about. I'd check freida's listings for PICU programs, then look to see if they have any alternative tracks. You could also even call and ask to speak with someone, either from the PICU or anesthesia (preferably a program director). UVA was willing to consider a joint program for fellowship at one point, but you had to ask.

Maybe the anesthesiologists here have heard of more; I haven't tried looking from the anesthesia side.

 

[GasDaddy]

They should make a combined medicine/anesthesiology residency. After you pass gas you can take care of their social issues post operatively. lol. That would rock!

 

[RussianJoo]

They should make a combined medicine/anesthesiology residency. After you pass gas you can take care of their social issues post operatively. lol. That would rock!

that would suck. i know a lot of people me included who are going into gas to not have to deal with social issues ever again.