peds specialty salaries

[14022]

I am strongly considering going into a peds specialty, such as cards, picu, nephrology. My only concern is the salary. I have heard starting salary for cards at CHOP and Boston Children's is ~$90,000 and up to $120-130k at other academic programs. I did not go into medicine for the money, but I worry about my ability to support a family, own a home and car, and make any progress in paying back my $250,000 student loans. How valid of a concern is this?

Does anyone know about the opportunities for private practice peds specialties and the approximate salaries in private practice? I imagine it would be difficult to find jobs in private practice cards and nephro since there really is not an abundance of patients needing these doctors and many patients are very sick and will require the expertise at an academic medical center.

In academic medicine, does salary increase with taking positions on different committees (ie, medical school admissions commitee, curriculum committee) or by being director of a clerkship or residency program, etc.? Before I commit to peds, I would like to know which routes I can take to make a decent salary and be financially stable. Also, I understand that salary increases as you go from assistant to associate professor but that usually requires publishing a certain amount of papers. What if you are on a clinical track and concentrating more on educating residents and students?

I am trying to figure out if it would be better being kinda happy as an adult medicine specialist (nephro, cards) with more financial stability vs. being extremely happy as a peds specialist but not being as financially stable. It seems that the medicine specialists work just as hard as peds specialists, so it seems that lifestyle would be pretty similar.

I know I bring up a lot of concerns but any comments on any of my concerns would be appreciated.

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[drdrtoledo]

The only advice I can give you about salaries is to go to this website. http://www.jacksonandharris.com/company/pcps.aspx
It is the only one I know of that breaks down peds into it's own specialties and by region. I hope it helps. From experience, I can tell you... do what you love. You spend a good portion of your adult life at work... paychecks can get old REAL quick.
A

 

[chicubs1116]

I tired using the link but it would not work, am I doing something wrong?

 

[14022]

no, it didnt work for me either....

 

[kas23]

Seems to me these numbers are a bit inflated. A general pediatrician making between $156,000 - $171,000? Maybe right before retirement.

 

[calichi]

I was reading in the Journal of Pediatrics in my preceptors office that said average peds specialist salary is ~160k and average general peds ~120k. I'm also interested in a peds specialty, but 90k a year with 250k in loans would be tough.

 

[kas23]

I would find it extremely difficult to go pediatrics strapped with 250K in loans. You concern is valid and I feel your pain. If you really love kids, you may want to consider a subspecialty that works with kids like pedi anesthesia, pedi derm, pedi surg subspecialty (ophtho, ENT), ect.... However, do NOT let the money issue be the final determining factor.

 

[Lara]

I'm also in the same position with +200K loans....arrrgh. Can anyone say just *how* difficult it would be to live on a peds salary? Or is that an impossible question?

 

[J123]

From my discussions with some private-practice sub-specialists (specifically peds cardio), there is the potential for a large income, but you will bust your butt for it. Patients are often referred to major academic institutions from smaller, or less-specialized hospitals even within a large metro area. These hospitals will call the specialist that they work with regularly, which is usually a private-practice doc. That person then becomes the referring MD to the academic center. The physicians at the academic institution aren't generally going all over the city doing ECHOs for NICUs and seeing inpatient consults, the privates are. Also, the private docs often have admitting privileges at academic hospitals, so can follow their complex patients when referred for surgery, etc, and bill for it. Bottom line, to make more money, you need to see more patients....Academic salaries are often lower because you will need to 'bring in' either part of or all of your salary in research grant $ (depends on if you're in a clinical track, research track, or whatever the university has set up) Oh, yes, there's also 'the glory for working for x university' that keeps your pay down.....

 

[oldbearprofessor]

http://www.lrp.nih.gov/about/lrp-pediatric.htm

I usually stay out of the $$ threads here, but I encourage those of you with substantial loan debt and an interest in pediatric subspecialty academics to look at this site carefully. It may not apply to you, but I know several people who have used it to great success in repaying their loans. One does not have to be headed for a nobel prize to get this grant, as evidenced by the high success rate.

I am thankful that I was in a situation in which I was able to do what I wanted (residency and 3 post-docs....) without having to make a lot of $$ or repay loans. I understand how tough it is nowadays with the 200K debts to pull that sort of "someday I'll get a real job" approach. But, it is doable if you want to do pedi and this is one, but not the only route to it for those wanting academics.

Regards

OBP

 

[14022]

Thanks OBP! I have a question about this. Do you do research at the NIH for this grant? Or is it given to you during your residency or fellowship, provided that you do at least 20 hours per week at your institution? If I am not mistaken, isn't at least a year of research required for most peds fellowships? Would one of these years count as a year toward the program?

 

[kas23]

Don't forget the military (I am dead serious) or marrying another doctor with greater earning potential or less loans (partially serious on this one).

 

[iatrosB]

I may be wrong on this one, but don't peds ED docs get close to $200K a year. You can certainly live well and pay off loans with that.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Thanks OBP! I have a question about this. Do you do research at the NIH for this grant? Or is it given to you during your residency or fellowship, provided that you do at least 20 hours per week at your institution? If I am not mistaken, isn't at least a year of research required for most peds fellowships? Would one of these years count as a year toward the program?

The research definitely can be done at your home institution rather than at the NIH intramural program, although there is an intramural option. There is relatively little pediatrics (heme-onc, genetics and endo that I know about) in the intramural program in Bethesda (no neonatology)

It would be best to check with the NIH, but I believe that the intent is for the debt repayment to begin after fellowship, although I am not certain that they won't permit it beforehand in some cases. Try calling the loan repayment helpline at 866-849-4047 and asking!

Regards

OBP

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

This was an interesting conversation we were having in the dental forums a couple of weeks ago.

Do you guys find it strange (and unfair!) that according to the American Dental Association, the average salary for a pediatric dentist is $300K/year on a 35 hour workweek.

Thats basically double the pay for half the work. I might be a dental student, and a pediatric hopeful, but I think that is horrible, cause I have much respect for pediatricians and they definitely deserve more!

 

[iatrosB]

This was an interesting conversation we were having in the dental forums a couple of weeks ago.

Do you guys find it strange (and unfair!) that according to the American Dental Association, the average salary for a pediatric dentist is $300K/year on a 35 hour workweek.

Thats basically double the pay for half the work. I might be a dental student, and a pediatric hopeful, but I think that is horrible, cause I have much respect for pediatricians and they definitely deserve more!

You will have your hands full as well, good luck. You'll deserve every penny, and that is a lot of pennies!

 

[dsherida]

Pediatric Interventional Cardiology. I imagine their salaries must be higher than a general pediatric cardiologist. Any ideas???

 

[idealist22]

Seems to me these numbers are a bit inflated. A general pediatrician making between $156,000 - $171,000? Maybe right before retirement.

it's not necessarily inflated. my aunt is a general peds hospitalist in the northeast... she works about 50-60 hours a week and makes $175k/year. remember that community practice does pay better than academia, and there are far more pediatricians in the community than in academia...

 

[kas23]

it's not necessarily inflated. my aunt is a general peds hospitalist in the northeast... she works about 50-60 hours a week and makes $175k/year. remember that community practice does pay better than academia, and there are far more pediatricians in the community than in academia...

Key word: hospitalist. According to this website, the hospitalists make slightly more money than the non-hospitalist (at least for internal med).

And it is also highly unlikely that a general pediatrician in private practice is working 50-60 hours per week. Now, if they did, then they may make quite a bit more. Like another poster said above, it is not impossible to make that extra chunk of money - you just need to work a lot harder for it than other doctors in other fields do.

 

[14022]

I still cannot get that salary website to work. If someone is having more luck, could they please post the median salary for peds cards in the midwest? Thanks!

 

[drdrtoledo]

scholes,
Sorry that you are having trouble accessing the site. Unfortunately, the website doesn't have data on the midwest for cardiology (not enought respondents perhaps) but on the west coast the median income was $245,935. In general the compensation tends to be a bit more in the midwest.

 

[SoonerBJJ]

I cannot get it to work either. How about pediatric critical care in each region. Thanks in advance.

 

[jjohnsonanick]

http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

Try the link above out. It doesn't have great data for all the specialties but it at least gives an average nationwide for all of them, and for some it will give some region specific data.

Then you can look at the other specialties' data and wonder again why you love kids so much and couldn't just be a radiologist........

Hope this helps, I couldn't get that other link to work either....

 

[drdrtoledo]

Peds CC/Intensivist- MW $286,436 SE $243,807
That's all they had.

 

[SoonerBJJ]

Thanks toledo. I wonder if those numbers are a bit inflated or if there is a sampling bias toward private intensivists?

 

[VitaminK]

thanks for the good links! (unfortunately they never put med-peds on any list)

 

[kas23]

thanks for the good links! (unfortunately they never put med-peds on any list)

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is because there is no such thing as a med-peds doctor, it is only a training. With that being said, these doctors usually go into primary care (where they will make the same money as any other generalist) or they specialize (where they will make the same as any other doctor within their specialty).

 

[bente]

Some classmates of mine went into Peds and then subspecialized. Peds is an easy match and fellowships aren't really that hard to get. So it's a good 'back door' to a great job if you don't mind subspecializing, and like peds.
You mainly pigeon hole yourself into big centers (chop etc) or univs. , but that is often the preference of the majority on this board. There are a few 'rural' spots...like mayo, marshfield, vt, iowa, etc.
Salaries are nearly always higher in midwest.
IMHO, those salary sites everyone refers to are of limited value. They have so few reporting, some under-report, some over-report for odd reasons. (eg. they are hiring, so under report; they are switching in same geographic region, so over report). Basically, it is self reporting, so suspect.
Usually the variability is so huge...mainly if you work a lot and charge in the 90%ile you make a lot more than the guy who puts in 40hrs and charges 30%ile. That is one thing studies have shown. Obvious, huh?

 

[soulsearchin]

general peds
northeast:163,615.00
southeast:165,998.00
midwest,171,628.00

these are a bi t exaggerated right..i thought the mean was like 120 or less

 

[soulsearchin]

saw a job posting today for a gen.ped,paying 172k plus benefits,malpractice paid.its in upstate NY.

 

[rina33]

Anyone know about peds allergy/immunolgy? Lifestyle and $?
(in CA/southwest)

 

[kiddoc20]

I think NICU pays on avg 200k to start with.Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[drmg456]

salaries and earning potential vary, Guys don't make yuourself believe that Peds is an underpaid specialty, (some recruiters would like to do that)
I havea relative in Private Practice who makes half a million after over head, and another freind of mine, he said his boss must be making at least 600k as a GP. It depends on how much you are willing to work and the number of patients, the location etc etc. In upstate NY, one of my acquaintences Med/Peds bills at least 1.5 million per year.

Pediatrics would maintain status quo unlike the other specialities like anesthesia and Radioogy

So next time when somebody offers you a salary of 70k or 90 k, you know whom to refer to.............

 

[tkrohn]

You guys have to remember that the surveys you are quoting for salaries are at the mercy of those who choose to participate in those surveys. Additionally, the website that continues to be referenced quotes MEDIAN salaries of those physicians who returned their surveys. The national MEAN may very well be ~120K with a MEDIAN above that.

 

[soulsearchin]

salaries and earning potential vary, Guys don't make yuourself believe that Peds is an underpaid specialty, (some recruiters would like to do that)
I havea relative in Private Practice who makes half a million after over head, and another freind of mine, he said his boss must be making at least 600k as a GP. It depends on how much you are willing to work and the number of patients, the location etc etc. In upstate NY, one of my acquaintences Med/Peds bills at least 1.5 million per year.

Pediatrics would maintain status quo unlike the other specialities like anesthesia and Radioogy

So next time when somebody offers you a salary of 70k or 90 k, you know whom to refer to.............

so what in ur opinion is a realistic range of salary for someone whos offered a position after residency without a fellowship...not statistically but according to the realitites on the ground.?