Peds subspecialties and research

[TexasRose]

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I'm very interested in a couple of Peds subspecialties. I'm wondering if I will need research experience in order to be competitive for fellowships in fields like neonatology and genetics. It seems like there are a lot of Md/Phd's in these fields. I'm not interested in the Phd, but I am interested in academic medicine. (I'd like to work in clinics and teach.)

Hmm, should have pointed out that I'm an MS1 and trying to determine whether I need to look into finding a lab to work with during my clinical years, etc.

Guidance is greatly appreciated. ( I know there are "real live" docs here. 😉 )

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Guidance is greatly appreciated. ( I know there are "real live" docs here. 😉 )

You rang?

Peds specialties generally don't expect much research background, especially during med school. In addition to genetics, which is a "special case", heme/onc folks seem the most research oriented in looking for fellows from my experience, pedi ID might be a second in that regard. However, med school is a reasonable time if one hasn't done any bench research to gain some exposure to it, not only to spiffy up the CV but to find out if YOU will want a career that includes bench or clinical research. Many pedi fellows that i've seen (not just neo) feel very lost when the fellowship director tells them to find a lab and they have no idea what suits them or if they can enjoy spending time in a basic science lab.

For that reason, spending the summer between first and second year in a lab isn't a bad idea. For schools that don't have that summer, it's reasonable to arrange a couple of months of your elective time in a lab (remember to check out www.aps-spr.org for The Society for Pediatric Research's summer program). It's very hard to do this during basic sciences, but there's no need to wait until the last few months of medical school. Finally, some students will take an entire year to do research, and special programs exist for this at some schools. I do not think this is mandatory in any way, but is an option for those seriously considering academic pediatrics and bench research.

Now off to review his cell biology chapter with my high school son taking AP bio. Hey, this stuff is hard, glad I don't have to know it!! 😀

Regards

"oldbear professor", always at TR's service!

 

[TexasRose]

Hope your son is doing well in AP Bio. 😀 My daughter has just discovered the joys of advanced courses. She also just got asked to her first dance by a boy. (I haven't run his background check yet. 😉 ) Time flies.

Thanks for your reply. I suppose I could have composed it in a PM, but I figured there would be others with similar questions.

I like the idea of doing some research during my clinical years, but I'm not sure about adding a year to my graduation. It seems like it will be 20 years before I'm done with med school, residency, and fellowship.

Does age matter when it comes to trying to get into academic medicine? I'm about 10 years older than the "fresh outta college" students.

How does one know if bench work is in the blood?

Grateful as always!

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Does age matter when it comes to trying to get into academic medicine? I'm about 10 years older than the "fresh outta college" students.

How does one know if bench work is in the blood?

Grateful as always!

Greetings Ms. Rose:

Ready for a new round of classes I see....

From what i've seen, age isn't really a significant factor from the institution's perspective. However, lately I've seen some of the "seasoned" grads go private due to their own concerns about making enough money to pay back loans and putting kids through college.

You know the answer to the bench research question.....no way but to try it.

Wait till your daughter is a bit older and see what outfits she WANTS to wear to those dances!! I've tried telling mine "Do you really want to look like a cheap you-know-what?" This approach does not impress young teenagers. Maybe this is why I hated adolescent medicine? 🙄

Regards

"oldbear"

 

[TexasRose]

Greetings Ms. Rose:

Ready for a new round of classes I see....

From what i've seen, age isn't really a significant factor from the institution's perspective. However, lately I've seen some of the "seasoned" grads go private due to their own concerns about making enough money to pay back loans and putting kids through college.

You know the answer to the bench research question.....no way but to try it.

Wait till your daughter is a bit older and see what outfits she WANTS to wear to those dances!! I've tried telling mine "Do you really want to look like a cheap you-know-what?" This approach does not impress young teenagers. Maybe this is why I hated adolescent medicine? 🙄

Regards

"oldbear"

Always ready for another round. 😀

I love my kids' school district, strict dress codes!

Okay, I guess I'll just have to wait until clinical months to make up my mind about the academic medicine/research thing. so hard to be patient.

 

[notstudying]

Hey, thought I'd poke my non-traditional nose into the conversation 🙂 (now that I have survived my first month in the NICU-with a nod to OBP!). I have a clinical/public health research background from before med school, and I'm planning to go into academics-most likely general academic peds, and being older hasn't seemed to be a problem for anyone. I'm personally not a benchie! I also think there's room for non-basic scientists in most specialties-even our neonatology fellowship has been encouraging fellows to get an MPH and do some outcomes-based research. Try out both, but don't think you have to do basic science to do academics. I'm with you on wanting to finish and not take time off-I thought about doing a PhD in epi, but really wanted to be finished. You can get good research experience in summers!

On the dancing topic... my son's school has dance class (formal instruction on dance steps and etiquette) and he is going kicking and screaming (he is 10). They have to wear slacks, coats and ties (I think the girls even wear gloves!). I know I will look on these days fondly when he is 16!

 

[TexasRose]

Thanks for the reply. Thinking about some of this stuff now gives me a way to motivate myself when I'm sitting in a lecture on biophysics of the blood vessels. 😉

I can just picture your son's class during the dance and etiquette lessons. Talk about the perfect way to torture a 10 yr old!

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Hey, thought I'd poke my non-traditional nose into the conversation 🙂 (now that I have survived my first month in the NICU-with a nod to OBP!). I have a clinical/public health research background from before med school, and I'm planning to go into academics-most likely general academic peds, and being older hasn't seemed to be a problem for anyone. I'm personally not a benchie! I also think there's room for non-basic scientists in most specialties-even our neonatology fellowship has been encouraging fellows to get an MPH and do some outcomes-based research.

Hi "NS"

How did the kid with PPHN do?

Fellowship directors can put a lot of pressure on fellows to do research in the area they wish them to, although in general they can't "force it." How people are "encouraged" may depend a lot on what funding the program has for its fellowship and what faculty mentors are available. That's why it's crucial for residents to ask detailed questions about what the current fellows do for their research when interviewing.

General academic peds is a great area - I've really enjoyed my contact with those folks and many do have lots of public health/MPH type of training. In my experience they are very involved in med school issues and education. Feel free to PM me about programs and training issues as it gets closer to your applying.

Hmmm - you, TR and I all have 10 year olds. I've begun using AIM (yes I know she's "underage") as a primary communication method with mine. She's been teaching me how to do "buddy profiles" and AIM abbreviations. I'm worried that "g2g" will become a permanent part of her vocabulary.

Pediatricians (current and future) are allowed to talk about their kids in the middle of threads, aren't they?

Regards

"OBP" (abbrev per "NS")

 

[TexasRose]

Of course we're allowed to talk about our kids. 😉

So I was having a discussion about residencies and fellowships with a couple of classmates today. I seem to recall that getting a fellowship is based more on board scores and residency performance than on class ranking/grades in med school. Is that correct?

So many specialties seem to insist on AOA and research, particularly the ones that med students like to talk about. (orthopedics, derm, optho...) I wonder how skewed the avg. med student's understanding of the whole process is. *rambling*

 

[WillowRose]

I'm so glad to see this thread here! I'm a MS1 (also non-trad) and still trying to get a feel for what might be out there. Like TR, I'm really wondering if I "have" to do research work. I've already discovered that I'm *not* a benchie!

I don't know for sure even that peds is the direction I want to go in, but it's on my short list. I'm also particularly interested in areas like public health and infectious disease--again, more from a pediatric stand-point than IM.

Is it even possible to do a fellowship in these areas? And are they mostly clinic & research combos? I apologize if I'm not making a lot of sense. Been crunching the numbers on how to finance my education......

Thanks for any words of wisdom,
Willow

 

[oldbearprofessor]

I'm so glad to see this thread here! I'm a MS1 (also non-trad) and still trying to get a feel for what might be out there. Like TR, I'm really wondering if I "have" to do research work. I've already discovered that I'm *not* a benchie!

I don't know for sure even that peds is the direction I want to go in, but it's on my short list. I'm also particularly interested in areas like public health and infectious disease--again, more from a pediatric stand-point than IM.

Is it even possible to do a fellowship in these areas? And are they mostly clinic & research combos? I apologize if I'm not making a lot of sense. Been crunching the numbers on how to finance my education......

Thanks for any words of wisdom,
Willow

Greetings Willow Rose:

I take it you're not related to Texas Rose?

Lets see. First, there definitely is a specialty of pediatric infectious diseases and in fact several of the most famous names of American pediatrics were specialists in this area. In terms of combining infectious diseases and public health, I suppose one could do an MPH and pedi ID fellowship, but that would be unusual. There are experts in tropical medicine with well-known programs in this at UTMB in Galveston and George Washington University. They tend to work in international medical research and this is not a pediatric specialty per se.

One certainly can do pedi ID without any bench research although most of the fellows in pedi ID I know have done some bench research. It is possible to do more clinically related studies as well though for ones pedi ID research. Remember, that, in general, pedi fellowship training requires one to complete at least one research project. It can be in bench or clinical or some hybrid though.

I will let others who know more comment on whether one really has to be AOA, etc to get residencies in derm, ophtho and ortho, but these are definitely not necessary for pedi fellowships, even cardiology. In-service exams (taken during residency), clinical evaluations, and enthusiasm/personality count for a good bit as well as "board" scores.

The reason I advocate getting some bench research experience in medical school, even if only a month or two, is that it will help you plot your course as a fellow. I've heard of fellowship directors who said "How do you know you aren't a bench researcher since you'ver never tried it?"

Take care and good luck

Regards

"oldbearprofessor"

 

[WillowRose]

OBP,

Thanks so much! No, no relation to Texas Rose. 🙂

I guess I wasn't clear before. I'm not looking to combine public health and ID. Those just happen to be a couple of areas that interest me. Eventually, I want to do some international work, particularly in Asia, and those are two areas where I feel there is a great need (and I have a special interest in them as well).

As for bench research...eh..I did a master's and I hated the research so much, I went into teaching! LOL However, I will look into the possibility of some clinical research at the school. Worst case scenario is I end up *not* doing a fellowship and do general peds. How bad is that?

Thanks again for the info! Now, I must do some reading before I go into gross lab tomorrow morning.

Willow

 

[notstudying]

OldBear-no, she hasn't improved, and is unlikely to. Long, frustrating, complicated story. I'll be interested in info about other general peds fellowships, but I'll almost certainly stay where I am now (for professional and family reasons)-I may be in touch 🙂.

Willow-you are another one to recruit to general academic peds! A lot of the disease and vaccine surveillance work is done by general peds since ID is so bench based. General academic peds fellowships are 2 or 3 years, and involve research training (usually fellows get an MPH as a part of the fellowship), protected research time, and clinical work/supervision and training of med students and residents. Fellows do research in many areas, but it is generally clinical, public health, or health services research oriented. After training they get jobs in faculty pediatric practices, with some combination of clinical work/on service time, teaching/administration, and research. Many also become involved with advocacy for children's issues.

Good luck! Are you also a parent? This is a "talk about your kids zone" thread 🙂.

 

[WillowRose]

Notstudying,

Hey...maybe that academic peds stuff is the way to go!

Yes, I am also a parent. I've actually adopted two children from Vietnam (hence my desire to do some humanitarian work in Asia). My daughter is 10 and struggling in all ways of the world (older adoptee with issues). My son is nearly 5 years old, just starting preschool, and crazy smart. I'm not sure which is harder to deal with!

Thanks again for all the information. I'll be sure to continue lurking here. Now, I am going to do a little studying before putting my nauseated self to bed!

Willow

 

[kas23]

willow,

I sure hope that is your real name, it is awesome. I would have loved my pediatrician to be named Willow Rose. 😀

 

[TexasRose]

Notstudying,

Hey...maybe that academic peds stuff is the way to go!

Yes, I am also a parent. I've actually adopted two children from Vietnam (hence my desire to do some humanitarian work in Asia). My daughter is 10 and struggling in all ways of the world (older adoptee with issues). My son is nearly 5 years old, just starting preschool, and crazy smart. I'm not sure which is harder to deal with!

Thanks again for all the information. I'll be sure to continue lurking here. Now, I am going to do a little studying before putting my nauseated self to bed!

Willow

That's awesome that you have adopted 2 kiddos. Funny that all 4 of us should have 10 yr olds!

So is it a good thing that I think Embryology is one of the coolest subjects we are studying? So many people are complaining about it and I would read this book on my own if it wasn't assigned. crazy, I guess. 😉

I'm trying to think of a useful research oriented question to keep the thread going...oh yeah.When trying to find someone to do research with in med school, do we just look for a pediatrician with an interesting research topic and ask point blank?

 

[oldbearprofessor]

That's awesome that you have adopted 2 kiddos. Funny that all 4 of us should have 10 yr olds!

So is it a good thing that I think Embryology is one of the coolest subjects we are studying? So many people are complaining about it and I would read this book on my own if it wasn't assigned. crazy, I guess. 😉

I'm trying to think of a useful research oriented question to keep the thread going...oh yeah.When trying to find someone to do research with in med school, do we just look for a pediatrician with an interesting research topic and ask point blank?

Hi TR: Better to talk to a few people "in the know" before approaching a faculty member. Not all warm and fuzzy faculty are great research mentors. Also, if it's going to be bench research, why limit it to pediatricians or pedi faculty? Lots of basic science pedi faculty largely work in cell or molecular bio departments for their research.

My AP bio student kid thinks he bombed his second exam. Wants out of AP but teacher doesn't want to let him out. Unlike his sisters, he doesn't want to be a doctor.

So, obligatory kid question for those of you with kids - Do your kids ask you about their becoming a doctor? Would you advise them to become a pediatrician? I know the issue of "is medicine a good career?" gets hashed around a lot in the pre-allo type discussions, but most of those folks don't have to guide their own pre-teen kids.

OBP

 

[notstudying]

That's awesome that you have adopted 2 kiddos. Funny that all 4 of us should have 10 yr olds!

So is it a good thing that I think Embryology is one of the coolest subjects we are studying? So many people are complaining about it and I would read this book on my own if it wasn't assigned. crazy, I guess. 😉

I'm trying to think of a useful research oriented question to keep the thread going...oh yeah.When trying to find someone to do research with in med school, do we just look for a pediatrician with an interesting research topic and ask point blank?

Absolutely! If there's one thing academic pediatricians like to talk about (as much as their own kids 🙂) it's their research! And many-especially newer faculty, don't have any support staff, so if you can volunteer some time, or get funded through medical student research funding (we have a whole summer research program for students) you will be in demand! Bigger research shops also often rely on summer students for help, but you may be less likely to get your own piece of the research action to write up as a paper or meeting presentation.

Of course, there are all the research ideas you get from living with a 10 year old boy... "Trajectories of opposite sex revulsion and attraction among peripubertal males", "Bacterial cultures of unwashed gym shirts", "A randomized controlled trial of harnesses versus inter-lavatory targets in improving voiding aim", and my favorite-"Geekiness, nature or nurture?: When your 10 year old is better at physics than you".

Willow-It's amazing how having children changes your perspective, and influences your career decisions. Your experience with your children will give you so much credibility, and in particular you will be able to bond with parents of adopted children, because you share many of the same highs and lows. Likewise with working in Asia. Many people shy away from peds because of the parents, but for the most part I really enjoy them. Even when they are "annoying", for the most part they are trying their best to do what is right for their kids, and for us to do what is right as well. Just validating this, especially from the perspective of a fellow parent, goes a long way to creating a partnership in the best interests of the child.

Boy, that was more long winded than I had intended!
😎
NS

 

[WillowRose]

I just did a little poking around on the school's website. (I'm at Ohio Univ. College of Osteopathic Med, btw). It occured to me earlier that there are wonderful opportunities for me to get some research exposure without the blah-ness of traditional bench research. We have an Tropical Disease Institute in Ecuador and they have a lot of projects that aren't bench projects. (They have those too). I wanted to do the program anyway, but just hadn't put 2 & 2 together. I could actually spend some time trying to work to improve the safety of the blood supply or public health...or gosh! How exciting!! LOL They're studying Chagas' disease.

As for my kids.....oh man. My daughter is not really a stellar student and hates hard work. I don't think medical school is a real possibility. My 4-yr-old son, on the other hand, informed me a few months ago that he wants to be a bone doctor so he can use his hammers and saws. My husband had knee surgery back in January and the baby sat down and made me teach him the names of all the bones in his leg so he could take care of his daddy. Every day he would say, "How's your fiblia doing today, Daddy? How's your patella?" Now he's branching out to other parts of the body. The scapula is a real exciting bone for some reason.

Would I encourage him to go into medicine? Sure..if that's what he wants to do, I'm behind him all the way..even if he still wants to style the patient's hair when he's finished listening to their hearts with his "tethescope."

Yes, I'm raising a little nerd and I LOVE it! I think he's a definite nurture over nature case. We share no DNA at all and yet, he couldn't be more like my husband & me if he were a clone!

As far as parents go, my perspective on peds has definitely changed since becoming a parent. I realize that sometimes *all* of us ask crazy questions and get a little anxious over not-serious things. The only thing that I've seen that really drives peds crazy (the ones I've talked to anyway) are when parents make decisions about their child's health care based on sketchy evidence. Like when they decide not to vaccinate because they read it somewhere on www.shotsarebad.com. I've actually heard of peds telling parents to find another dr because they disagreed so vehemently with the parents' decision.

Looks like I got long-winded too! 🙂

 

[notstudying]

I had thought about medical school before my kids were born, but had put the idea away once they came along. When my kids were little I used to imagine they would become doctors some day, until I realized that I was placing my dreams onto them, and that would really be unfair. That was when I realized that I had to at least try to go to medical school. One thing lead to another...

I think my older son would make a good doctor (he's a little bit of a hypochondriac "Mommy-I think I have strept throat [at 5 years old!]", but since he was 6 he has said he wants to be a scientist and an inventor, and he'll be great at that, too. My younger son vacillates between wanting to be a scientist inventor too, then somedays he wants to own a restaurant, and somedays he admits he has no idea. I think he should do something spacial-he is amazing at maps-so maybe engineering or architecture. My dad (a surgeon) tried to convince me not to go to med school, but I'd be happy for my kids either way.

 

[TexasRose]

Hi TR: Better to talk to a few people "in the know" before approaching a faculty member. Not all warm and fuzzy faculty are great research mentors. Also, if it's going to be bench research, why limit it to pediatricians or pedi faculty? Lots of basic science pedi faculty largely work in cell or molecular bio departments for their research.

My AP bio student kid thinks he bombed his second exam. Wants out of AP but teacher doesn't want to let him out. Unlike his sisters, he doesn't want to be a doctor.

So, obligatory kid question for those of you with kids - Do your kids ask you about their becoming a doctor? Would you advise them to become a pediatrician? I know the issue of "is medicine a good career?" gets hashed around a lot in the pre-allo type discussions, but most of those folks don't have to guide their own pre-teen kids.

OBP

Thx for the thoughts on finding research faculty. I'm sure you know I'll be contacting you for more thoughts when the time is right.

As for the kids following our footsteps into medicine, I think they have a unique perspective. One thing I'm thankful for as a nontrad with kids is that my kids are old enough to see me working hard for my classes and they will be familiar with the process of becoming a doctor. Most of the time, kids only see "finished products," if you will. By the time they are aware of what their parents do for a living the parents are already well established in the career. In your case, with all the involvement you have with medical students, your kids have that same advantage. They know what it takes and likely will know whether or not they want to do it.

I hope that my kids will be as excited and energized by the field they choose as I am about medicine. If medicine does it for one of them, I will be very supportive. The only thing I think I would discourage is one of my kiddos feeling obligated to be a doc because of social expectations or some such.

One of my sons wants to be an astronaut so he can find more natural resources on Mars to bring back to Earth. (7 yr old) I think I may be in over my head with this kid!

 

[WillowRose]

One of my sons wants to be an astronaut so he can find more natural resources on Mars to bring back to Earth. (7 yr old) I think I may be in over my head with this kid!

Could be worse...my 4-yr-old son wants to grow up to be Thomas the Tank Engine!

 

[oldbearprofessor]

In your case, with all the involvement you have with medical students, your kids have that same advantage. They know what it takes and likely will know whether or not they want to do it.

One of my sons wants to be an astronaut so he can find more natural resources on Mars to bring back to Earth. (7 yr old) I think I may be in over my head with this kid!

Well, maybe on the knowing what it's about front. From what they can see, medical students participate in orientation skits and games, have ice cream parties, and travel with faculty on international medical education trips. This might be a slightly biased perspective of the life of a medical student.


OBP

 

[TexasRose]

Well, maybe on the knowing what it's about front. From what they can see, medical students participate in orientation skits and games, have ice cream parties, and travel with faculty on international medical education trips. This might be a slightly biased perspective of the life of a medical student.


OBP

Hey, where's my ice cream and trips??? I could IM your daughter and tell her about studying all weekend if you think she needs a more dismal perspective. 😉

 

[oldbearprofessor]

I could IM your daughter and tell her about studying all weekend if you think she needs a more dismal perspective. 😉

Not necessary, I have told her about "gunners" and how to avoid being one. 😛 She assures me that there aren't any gunners in 5th grade, but I'm not so sure. 😱

OBP

 

[TexasRose]

Not necessary, I have told her about "gunners" and how to avoid being one. 😛 She assures me that there aren't any gunners in 5th grade, but I'm not so sure. 😱

OBP

I dunno either. Things seem to be getting competitve already in 5th grade. Poor overworked kiddos! Life is tough enough as it is, why add the stress before they even hit puberty?

Say, what's a good pedi field for someone who loves embryology and wrestles with physiology? (especially signaling cascades)

I had to say something to keep the pedi theme going. 😉

 

[notstudying]

**Message written while listening to the ...unique... sounds of a 5th grade saxophonist 🙂**

Fifth grade seems like when the focus on achievement starts-suddenly we're getting requests in the mail for our son to take "this special achievement" test. And that's nothing compared to the sports! At least our kids are in private school, so the sports emphasis is less, but at my town's school you have to be on the "A" travel teams by this time or you have little chance at making the high school team. Music too-all county bands and orchestras start to pop up around this time.

And as far as puberty goes...my 5th grader has stinky pits, zits, and a "methinks the boy doth protest too much" dislike of girls! And he won't let me anywhere near enough to check a tanner stage 🙂.

Hmm... embryology without physiology...Maybe genetics? It's mostly biochem rather than physio.

 

[GeneGoddess]

Hmm... embryology without physiology...Maybe genetics? It's mostly biochem rather than physio.

Yeah, genetics might work! But everything ends up boiling down to physiology and/or embryology...

And I feel like I'm sneaking in here, since I don't have kids yet...but I will say that my darling husband actually regrets not taking his dad up on teaching him to dance. In retrospect, he "would have met a lot more girls" if he knew how to dance. So he swears that any boy of his WILL take dance lessons...

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Life is tough enough as it is, why add the stress before they even hit puberty?

I wish - take a good look at 5th graders these days 😱

Say, what's a good pedi field for someone who loves embryology and wrestles with physiology? (especially signaling cascades)

I'm afraid that Dr. notstudying is correct, only genetics would come close to that bill. but, I don't think you need to undertand "signaling cascades" for most specialties, so you're all right!

Regards

OBP

 

[oldbearprofessor]

**Message written while listening to the ...unique... sounds of a 5th grade saxophonist 🙂**

Fifth grade seems like when the focus on achievement starts-suddenly we're getting requests in the mail for our son to take "this special achievement" test.

My son is also taking saxophone lessons - he loves it!

Wait until it really starts with the 7th Grade Duke Achievement test (or whatever it's called) SAT testing. I have my 7th grader taking the old SAT tests in Dec. and my 11th grader the new SATs in March. 😕

Regards

OBP

 

[WillowRose]

but I will say that my darling husband actually regrets not taking his dad up on teaching him to dance. In retrospect, he "would have met a lot more girls" if he knew how to dance. So he swears that any boy of his WILL take dance lessons...

That's why my darling husband took up the guitar at 13. Says it was all a ploy to get chicks. Guess it worked, huh?

Willow

 

[TexasRose]

I wish - take a good look at 5th graders these days 😱



I'm afraid that Dr. notstudying is correct, only genetics would come close to that bill. but, I don't think you need to undertand "signaling cascades" for most specialties, so you're all right!

Regards

OBP

You know, actually, I have taken a look at those 5th graders next to my little peanut of a kid. 😱 My husband read an article about hormones in milk and a possible connection to early puberty for girls. Next day he bought organic hormone-free milk for the family.

ok, ok, I'm not that bad in Physio. 😉 I think I'm getting over my "ohmigod anything less than an 85 is a bad grade!" Funny how we have to be so obsessive about those 90+ scores in undergrad and then med school knocks us down a notch or two.

Why oh why does my preceptor have to be an OBGyn? I can barely hear the little heart beat of that future baby!

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Why oh why does my preceptor have to be an OBGyn? I can barely hear the little heart beat of that future baby!

Dear Ms. Rose:

You think it's easier listening to the heart beat of a 700 g baby after they're born? I always laugh when the new residents show up with their $200 stethoscopes that have a head bigger than the baby's chests thinking they're gonna identify split S2's in a kid whose HR is 160/min.

Well, on the way out to the Apple store this evening to learn that my daughters broken ipod mini needs to be returned to Apple for replacement (since it's engraved), we talked about "gunners." I got the inevitable question "dad, were you a gunner?" Oh my, I was ready for "dad, did you smoke dope in college?" but this brutal question, what to say??😱

I did what I had to do and said "little gunnerette, I was a nerd, not a gunner" We all like to deceive ourselves 🙂

So, be prepared, parents, some day your gunner behaviours will need to be explained away or fibbed away to your kids.

Regards

OBP

 

[notstudying]

I have always thought that "gunning" is in the eye of the beholder. While there are some actions that are universally despised (like rounding on someone else's patients, or pimping another med student on rounds), there are intermediate behaviors. I am one of those people who hate those pregnant pauses when a faculty or attending asks a question, and none of the students want to be the one to answer-so I ended up talking alot. Some people could (and did) interpret that as talking too much (a "gunner" behavior). I also knew many of the faculty (and honestly, had more in common with some of them than my classmates, as I was a bit older)-and did a lot of chatting with them-this also can be seen as the "gunner" behavior of "brown-nosing". I think you sometimes get unmotivated (but still competitive) students who perceive any person who puts in a lot of work in order to do well as "gunners"-if that is the definition, then I am guilty as charged (and I hope my kids will be too 🙂). But I would never want them to undermine other students-I think one of the most important things in medicine (and especially in pediatrics and subspecialities and research (just staying on topic, here 🙄 )) is being a team player and helping out others.

 

[TexasRose]

This is the part where I use my thread to talk about my kids. 😉 (I'm sure there's a research point in here somewhere!)

My son, about to turn 8 yrs, failed his eye exam for the left eye the other day. Pedi gives us the name of a pedi Ophthalmologist and says something about my son developing a lazy eye. Also said this particular guy was the one he'd recommend if he had to have surgery. 😱 Totally unexpected. To talk about eye problems and then throw out the "surgery" word was more than my poor mommy brain could take. Why is it we suddenly become blithering idiots when the medical speak is about one of our own?

BTW, pedi ophthamology, is that a Ophtho residency first, then pedi? Does one need med school research & publishing to get into this type of residency? 😉

 

[notstudying]

I think pedi ophtho is a fellowship after regular ophtho. And yes-I think any ophtho residency needs a bit 'o research (maybe on parental coping with lazy diagnoses??) 🙂.

Now that business is out of the way...

The other thing that has driven me to blithering idiocy is how medical student hypochondria is projected onto my children! Case in point-my 10 yo had nocturnal enuresis until about a year ago, along with occasional daytime urge incontinence. He also has one cup ear. So I finally HAD to ask the pediatrician if there was any chance that he had a kidney/urinary tract anomaly that was contributing (because of the kidney and ear anomaly association). I think that was the closest anyone has come to patting me on the head and saying "what a cute little medical student!".

Though I still wonder...

🙄

 

[TexasRose]

I think pedi ophtho is a fellowship after regular ophtho. And yes-I think any ophtho residency needs a bit 'o research (maybe on parental coping with lazy diagnoses??) 🙂.

Now that business is out of the way...

The other thing that has driven me to blithering idiocy is how medical student hypochondria is projected onto my children! Case in point-my 10 yo had nocturnal enuresis until about a year ago, along with occasional daytime urge incontinence. He also has one cup ear. So I finally HAD to ask the pediatrician if there was any chance that he had a kidney/urinary tract anomaly that was contributing (because of the kidney and ear anomaly association). I think that was the closest anyone has come to patting me on the head and saying "what a cute little medical student!".

Though I still wonder...

🙄

yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I, on the other hand, spent about 10 minutes feeling guilty for not noticing the vision problem. Then I got a grip.

The genetics and embryology lectures can really freak med students out. I was grateful to already have my kids after those "what can go wrong" lectures. We have 2 pregnant students in our class, and I felt especially bad for them. Imagine the student hypochondria they must have... 🙁

 

[GeneGoddess]

:
The genetics and embryology lectures can really freak med students out. I was grateful to already have my kids after those "what can go wrong" lectures. We have 2 pregnant students in our class, and I felt especially bad for them. Imagine the student hypochondria they must have... 🙁

Yeah, it's AWFUL. I want to do Pedi / Med Gene and I'm completely paranoid about having kids. I'm doing a pedi genetics rotation right now and all I seem to do it get consulted on newborns. We just saw a beautiful (really) baby with gonadal dysgenesis and ambiguous genitalia. The sweet little thing had some truly ambig. genitals (large phallus, a hymenal ring, large scrotal-looking labia) and a karyotype of 45X. We think it was originally XY and just lost the Y somewhere along the way... Kiddo was completely perfect otherwise (serious case of the "cutes").

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Yeah, it's AWFUL. I want to do Pedi / Med Gene and I'm completely paranoid about having kids. I'm doing a pedi genetics rotation right now and all I seem to do it get consulted on newborns. We just saw a beautiful (really) baby with gonadal dysgenesis and ambiguous genitalia. The sweet little thing had some truly ambig. genitals (large phallus, a hymenal ring, large scrotal-looking labia) and a karyotype of 45X. We think it was originally XY and just lost the Y somewhere along the way... Kiddo was completely perfect otherwise (serious case of the "cutes").

Pediatricians/pedi residents tend to get lots of prenatal ultrasounds when they're pregnant, needed or not. In the NICU they'll say things like, "I'm 28 weeks now, so [if I would deliver today] we won't be needing prophylactic surfactant."

Real reason for post is a kid brag/comment: Middle school daughter is named a "student of the week" at school - nice but not that big a deal. We go for the ceremony and when they give her the "award" the principal says "she always helps clean up in the cafeteria without being asked." What? Our daughter??? This is the same kid that wouldn't pick up a towel off the floor to save her life and only puts dirty clothes in the laundry when she needs them for the next day or it physically becomes impossible to move in her room. 🙄

OBP

 

[TexasRose]

This is the part where I use my thread to talk about my kids. 😉 (I'm sure there's a research point in here somewhere!)

My son, about to turn 8 yrs, failed his eye exam for the left eye the other day. Pedi gives us the name of a pedi Ophthalmologist and says something about my son developing a lazy eye. Also said this particular guy was the one he'd recommend if he had to have surgery. 😱 Totally unexpected. To talk about eye problems and then throw out the "surgery" word was more than my poor mommy brain could take. Why is it we suddenly become blithering idiots when the medical speak is about one of our own?

BTW, pedi ophthamology, is that a Ophtho residency first, then pedi? Does one need med school research & publishing to get into this type of residency? 😉

Good news, it's only intermittent exotropia that doesn't need treatment and mild nearsightedness, no glasses at this point. 😀

Why is ophtho such a competitive field anyway? A professor that I like, who also happens to be very straightforward, told me I'm not going to be ophtho material. (need to be AOA, he says) Fortunately I'm not interested in it! But seriously, is it a lifestyle thing that makes it so difficult to get a residency?

 

[Nalandra1129]

Hi all. Just wanted to add in my 2 cents about subspecialties and research. Most do not require you to do research prior to fellowship. However, you are right. Some are more research-oriented than others. I came into med school (I'm a 4th year now) wanting to do pedes genetics, but I wanted to be a clinician, not a researcher. I think genetics is really difficult as a career if you're not going to do research because for most geneticists, their salary comes primarily from their research. The clinical work, however, is really rewarding. Prenatal diagnoses are usually left up to MFM (Maternal Fetal Medicine - OB/Gyns), but there are a lot of consults on newborns. It's also a lot of literature searches to see if there are any reports of kids that have similar features as the one you're being consulted on. Most of all, I think genetics has the ability to look and counsel the family in terms of management with their child as well as management in future pregnancies. Genetics also works very closely with Metabolism, and the fellowship includes floor months on the Metabolism service (yes, that means lots of Biochem). I really enjoyed my one month rotation on the pedes genetics service, but due to the research "requirement", I decided that I'd have to think about it some more. Hope this helps, at least w/ the Genetics Fellowship idea.

-Nala