People "vaxed" with NS, or even air, at a Kroger???!!!!????

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WTF? how does one inject empty syringe? J&J isn't pre-filled. Is any covid vaccine pre-filled? no, right? So the pharmacist or the tech just drew up air? lol

There is nothing to READ. lol. You stick the needle in the vial, you draw up the vaccine and you give the shot lol.
 
iamapharmacist said:
With people who are injecting air running the place, you sure you can trust their rolls?
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Are you kidding me, the old ladies in the bakery are the most competent employees in the entire corporation.
 
This is the sad state of reality of doing too much too fast. Reminds me of alot of things but probably going to show my age a little by citing the Challenger accident. NASA keep rolling the dice with launches that were deemed unsafe but pushed forward anyway. I don't understand why we aren't more reminded that people's health and lives are what companies are risking. I was literally asked to staff a covid clinic last week and the very first question was how fast I can draw up the syringe.
I hope this event lands on some media editor's desk and they run with it.
 
VA77 said:
This is the sad state of reality of doing too much too fast. Reminds me of alot of things but probably going to show my age a little by citing the Challenger accident. NASA keep rolling the dice with launches that were deemed unsafe but pushed forward anyway. I don't understand why we aren't more reminded that people's health and lives are what companies are risking. I was literally asked to staff a covid clinic last week and the very first question was how fast I can draw up the syringe.
I hope this event lands on some media editor's desk and they run with it.
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Absolutely. The real question is how this doesn't happen more often. The quality of care at many pharmacies is held up by a thread. The pharmacists probably didn't fill the syringes themselves. A cdc best practice.
 
I am beyond sympathetic to my retail brothers but I still cannot imagine how that could happen. A syringe of air looks and feels different. And even if I could somehow imagine it happening to one person, how could you possibly do it multiple times?
 
I've never administered an injection to myself or anyone else, but I have certainly filled my share of syringes, and injected their contents into IV bags, and I don't understand the empty syringe thing either.

This would almost be understandable if they were at a place otherwise known as (among other things) Conjugal Visits with Satan.
 
If this was not an accident - What would the motive be?

we’re they taking cash for covid shots and shooting them with saline? It’s kinda like the guy in high school who sells your moms oregano to people.
 
Depending on the syringe, this is surprisingly easy. I trained about 15 nursing students on the process in prep for our mass vax clinic, and two managed to draw up air only.

It’s also easy to catch if you know what you’re doing, and easy to correct.

My guess is it was a combo of suboptimal syringe brand + lack of training follow up. People just aren’t used to MDV vaccines these days.
 
confettiflyer said:
Depending on the syringe, this is surprisingly easy. I trained about 15 nursing students on the process in prep for our mass vax clinic, and two managed to draw up air only.

It’s also easy to catch if you know what you’re doing, and easy to correct.

My guess is it was a combo of suboptimal syringe brand + lack of training follow up. People just aren’t used to MDV vaccines these days.
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I could see how one can draw up air by accident initially. One could misread where the tip of the needle is when pulling the vaccine from the vial. Could be a rookie mistake but shouldn't you check before injecting? Like, you know, making sure you take out the air bubbles and you have the right amount of vaccine pulled? lol
 
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confettiflyer said:
Depending on the syringe, this is surprisingly easy. I trained about 15 nursing students on the process in prep for our mass vax clinic, and two managed to draw up air only.

It’s also easy to catch if you know what you’re doing, and easy to correct.

My guess is it was a combo of suboptimal syringe brand + lack of training follow up. People just aren’t used to MDV vaccines these days.
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Isn't the vaccine fluid a bit cloudy?
 
Sparda29 said:
Isn't the vaccine fluid a bit cloudy?
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A bit, but some of these syringes that came with the kits make it hard to see.

Again, easy mistake, but easy to correct. This was 100% a lack of complete training/oversight.

It was probably like, “Hey you have your vaccine certificate? K...here are the instructions, good luck.”
 
Unless you have a visual impairment, it’s impossible not to see drawn vaccine inside the syringe. I have done hundreds now so speaking from experience.

Not knowing exactly what happened, I can only assume it was done on purpose ie. that nut job who purposely ruined the vaccine to prevent it from modifying genes or person with bad vision who weren’t wearing what they are supposed to.
 
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Chrish said:
Unless you have a visual impairment, it’s impossible not to see drawn vaccine inside the syringe. I have done hundreds now so speaking from experience.

Not knowing exactly what happened, I can only assume it was done on purpose ie. that nut job who purposely ruined the vaccine to prevent it from modifying genes or person with bad vision who weren’t wearing what they are supposed to.
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Which brand syringes have you used? I wanna compare, because I have a specific one that was included in the brown boxes that caused visual issues.
 
confettiflyer said:
Which brand syringes have you used? I wanna compare, because I have a specific one that was included in the brown boxes that caused visual issues.
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About 3-4 different types now; I don’t even look at the brand anymore. They send whatever syringes they have in the ancillary kits and I agree some of them are “cloudy” looking themselves. But assuming you have normal vision and pay some attention, it should be obvious to see liquid filling the syringe upon drawing.

We give Moderna vaccine while vaccine in question is J & J but I don’t suppose there would be much of a difference. And you would know the syringe is empty when you push it since it would feel completely different compared to syringe that is full.
 
Chrish said:
About 3-4 different types now; I don’t even look at the brand anymore. They send whatever syringes they have in the ancillary kits and I agree some of them are “cloudy” looking themselves. But assuming you have normal vision and pay some attention, it should be obvious to see liquid filling the syringe upon drawing.

We give Moderna vaccine while vaccine in question is J & J but I don’t suppose there would be much of a difference. And you would know the syringe is empty when you push it since it would feel completely different compared to syringe that is full.
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Yep, 100% agree, but this assumes a baseline level of competence and experience on the part of the person injecting. We have so many mass vax clinics running around here that, for a lot of students, this is literally their first time injecting anything other than NS for practice into an orange.

I had to briefly relieve a nursing student once because they were shaking so bad from nervousness, they couldn’t insert the needle into the vial.
 
Being in VA, I'm going to be following the VDH and BoP on this one closely and want to see that root cause analysis report.
 
So first they said patient were given saline, then they said it was empty syringes? J&J doesn't even come with saline solutions. It doesn't need to be reconstituted. It's also close to impossible to give empty syringes unless all they did was draw up air and never punctured the vials to draw up the actual dose. Was it only happening to people who were getting the last dose of each vial? Even then, there has to be some liquid that would come out from the extra pressure you put into the vials. I don't get it.
 
Speaks to a lack of organization. I mean they couldn't even get the facts right initially. However fewer than 10 people were affected

thehill.com

Virginia Kroger gave people ’empty syringes instead of the COVID-19 vaccine’

Multiple people who went to a clinic at a Virginia Kroger to receive the COVID-19 vaccine this week were instead mistakenly given empty syringes. A Kroger spokesperson confirmed to The Hill on…
thehill.com thehill.com
 
As much as it sucks that it happened in a pharmacy and it will give us bad reputation, I will give them credit for owning up to it. They do need to get their story together. Saline shots? Seriously. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if some people got partial doses and got a full dose as well.
 
Could be trying to draw up multiple shots at 1 time rather than with each appointment trying to save time....then got busy/distracted....if techs were allowed to do shots as well they might of thought it was "ready" or mixed up with syringes that were pre-drawn already with vaccine....either way....whatever SOP practice they had in place, surely was not following it.
 
Wow, I would mandate the entire pharmacy to get their eye balls checked stat. Most likely scenario would be someone being in charge of prepping and different person administering...but even still...eye balls & common sense are no excuse for miscommunication and likely being crunched for time...><.

I remember a previous incident with RPh administering insulin instead of flu vaccine (drawn up in advance) but I mean, air....come on
 
These were given at a Little Clinic, so no pharmacy staff involved. I wonder how it feels to receive 0.5mL injection of air into your muscle.
 
M0df said:
As much as it sucks that it happened in a pharmacy and it will give us bad reputation, I will give them credit for owning up to it. They do need to get their story together. Saline shots? Seriously. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if some people got partial doses and got a full dose as well.
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They don’t have much choice but to own it up. repercussions would be far more severe if it’s found out later including up to termination and criminal charge/ license revocation.

Best thing you can do is be honest and hope for less severe punishment ie. coaching.
 
owlegrad said:
I am beyond sympathetic to my retail brothers but I still cannot imagine how that could happen. A syringe of air looks and feels different. And even if I could somehow imagine it happening to one person, how could you possibly do it multiple times?
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This. The vaccinator had to have known.

I confess....I did this once, and it was immediately obvious when I gave the injection (syringes were predrawn....or supposed to be, and I apparently missed checking.) I apologized to the poor person, explained what happened, and then gave them an actual injection. I was a new vaccinator when this happened, and it was obvious.

I know incompetence almost always beats maleficence...but I have a hard time believing someone did this multiple times without realizing.
 
Well, we did have a guy who was diluting vaccines because he didn't believe in it...
 
I have no sympathy for such behavior. It’s one thing not to personally believe in vaccines. I can respect that as long as that person keeps it to themselves and their family members.

But if you start screwing around others’ vaccine, you deserve to not only loose your job but also your license and should be put behind the bar. There is no excuse for this.
 
Hearing no pharmacy staff involved and just the clinic nurses and staff. BoN and VDH involved but not pharmacy board. But good luck busting a nurse cause they stuck together like the old Teamsters. They would have have to chop someone's head off to get fired in most places.
 
VA77 said:
Hearing no pharmacy staff involved and just the clinic nurses and staff. BoN and VDH involved but not pharmacy board. But good luck busting a nurse cause they stuck together like the old Teamsters. They would have have to chop someone's head off to get fired in most places.
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If they don't do their own in. The most vicious disciplinary hearings I had to attend as the outside administrator were nursing hearings.
 
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