People who went to California Pharmacy schools/People currently in school

[YungTrapLord]

Can you rate your current/past experience at that school? How was the curriculum, access to jobs, and rotations etc?
Hearing a lot of bad things about Pacific/KGI/Tuoro and just the profession in general.

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[Judgment Dragon]

Not me, but my friends based on what they have told me.

UOP: My friend says that rotations and curriculum was all right. He got a job at Walgreens lined up as a floater pharmacist for 32 hours a week at $70 per hour.
KGI: The curriculum was good. No information on jobs and rotations.
Touro: Curriculum, rotations, and access to jobs are bad. One guy took 5 months to get a pharmacist job.

 

[YungTrapLord]

Not me, but my friends based on what they have told me.

UOP: My friend says that rotations and curriculum was all right. He got a job at Walgreens lined up as a floater pharmacist for 32 hours a week at $70 per hour.
KGI: The curriculum was good. No information on jobs and rotations.
Touro: Curriculum, rotations, and access to jobs are bad. One guy took 5 months to get a pharmacist job.

Cool thanks, if you find anything else about those schools/other schools please share!

 

[Judgment Dragon]

Cool thanks, if you find anything else about those schools/other schools please share!

One person at UCSF landed PGY 1 before graduation. She is now doing PGY 2. You should go to UCSF.

 

[YungTrapLord]

One person at UCSF landed PGY 1 before graduation. She is now doing PGY 2. You should go to UCSF.

haha if only it were that easy man. I can only hope, my major gpa was around a 3.7 (biology) but my cumulative is severely lacking for UCSF

 

[steveysmith54]

I think uop is a fine school. One of the oldest pharmacy schools in CA.

Claremont is a well respect undergraduate and graduate school, however opening up a pharmacy school 4 miles from westernu is suspect, to say the least.

They haven't graduated their first class yet and I don't know what kind of rotations they will have.

I would shy away from going to any"new" schools in CA, but I might be biased in this topic.

 

[YungTrapLord]

I think uop is a fine school. One of the oldest pharmacy schools in CA.

Claremont is a well respect undergraduate and graduate school, however opening up a pharmacy school 4 miles from westernu is suspect, to say the least.

They haven't graduated their first class yet and I don't know what kind of rotations they will have.

I would shy away from going to any"new" schools in CA, but I might be biased in this topic.

I've heard a lot of issues with Pacific and their rotations, people told me that they have trouble placing their students in rotations so the students end up communting 2hrs out of town to do them, or do them at like one hospital. Also I've heard they end up having new grads or even students teaching courses

 

[steveysmith54]

I am disappointed to hear that. I interviewed with them about 8 years ago. Other than the lousy area, I was impressed with their presentation and school. I work in SoCal and we get quite a few of their students. I also have 3 coworkers from that school (neither have graduated recently) and all seem very competent.

Are the students that you've spoken to having trouble getting sites in NorCal or SoCal? I guess it got kind of tight With rotations in NorCal with the additional school, as did it SoCal lol. Historically, uop has been very good though. Many successful pharmacist have graduated from that school. I guess things can change

 

[YungTrapLord]

I am disappointed to hear that. I interviewed with them about 8 years ago. Other than the lousy area, I was impressed with their presentation and school. I work in SoCal and we get quite a few of their students. I also have 3 coworkers from that school (neither have graduated recently) and all seem very competent.

Are the students that you've spoken to having trouble getting sites in NorCal or SoCal? I guess it got kind of tight With rotations in NorCal with the additional school, as did it SoCal lol. Historically, uop has been very good though. Many successful pharmacist have graduated from that school. I guess things can change

I don't think they have any issues getting jobs, its just doing their actual rotations while in school at UOP, guessing because Stockton is such a small area. Which is disappointing because they have a good reputation, I was hoping more people with first hand experience would comment here

 

[confettiflyer]

I've been very happy with the quality of UOP students and residents that pass through my hospital. The only challenge they seem to face is employment with the lack of vacations/time off with a compressed 3 year curriculum.

 

[YungTrapLord]

I've been very happy with the quality of UOP students and residents that pass through my hospital. The only challenge they seem to face is employment with the lack of vacations/time off with a compressed 3 year curriculum.

Hi, thank you for replying, could you elaborate on what you meant by them having trouble with employment?

 

[confettiflyer]

Hi, thank you for replying, could you elaborate on what you meant by them having trouble with employment?

They usually have crummy availability and/or are just really focused on getting through school and rotations. It's possible, though, just challenging.

 

[njac]

They usually have crummy availability and/or are just really focused on getting through school and rotations. It's possible, though, just challenging.

And they get super offended if you bring up how much you learned by working during pharmacy school and how you think the 3 year curriculum is doing them a disservice because most of them don't work..:

 

[steveysmith54]

And they get super offended if you bring up how much you learned by working during pharmacy school and how you think the 3 year curriculum is doing them a disservice because most of them don't work..:

Nowadays I am seeing less and less people working during pharmacy school. For one it's no longer required to get hours outside of rotations to get licensed. Second, with the increase in pharmacy schools there is more competitions for intern jobs.

 

[njac]

Nowadays I am seeing less and less people working during pharmacy school. For one it's no longer required to get hours outside of rotations to get licensed. Second, with the increase in pharmacy schools there is more competitions for intern jobs.

I think the second is a huge factor. Especially in an area like Stockton with 3 classes of 200, plus pre pharm students trying to get experience. But that doesn't take away how much I learned working 20-30 hours a week inpatient as a 2nd/3rd year and how much easier that made training once I got a job.

Thankfully I went to school in a state that still mandates several hundred intern hours are earned outside of appe/ippe.

 

[steveysmith54]

Some of these students who never worked during school are borderline stupid when they get to appe. I precepted one in retail, he was convinced that pharmacists can diagnose cause his class notes had diagnosis criteria. Then he tried to do an mtm for every patient. All the patients hated him. He never wanted to fill prescriptions and would take 10 minute to count to 30. I would send him home early

 

[confettiflyer]

Some of these students who never worked during school are borderline stupid when they get to appe. I precepted one in retail, he was convinced that pharmacists can diagnose cause his class notes had diagnosis criteria. Then he tried to do an mtm for every patient. All the patients hated him. He never wanted to fill prescriptions and would take 10 minute to count to 30. I would send him home early

That's it? You just gave up trying to teach him how to be a pharmacist and sent him home early?

 

[steveysmith54]

That's it? You just gave up trying to teach him how to be a pharmacist and sent him home early?

Yes. He was lazy, had terrible attitude, and didn't want to listen. Thought he knew it all. Can't teach those who do not want to learn. I was filling in at independent for 3 days for my friend at that time. I gave him two days and then just called it quits.

 

[BMBiology]

That's it? You just gave up trying to teach him how to be a pharmacist and sent him home early?

I am sure if the student is a hot girl then he would have made more of an effort lol

Before students are required to earn 900 hours from work in order to take the licensure exam. California pharmacy schools got together and got the BOP to change this. Now all 1500 hours can be earned from IPPE/APPE. So now you have new graduates who have zero practical work experience. How scary is this? I thought the board of pharmacy is supposed to protect the public?

 

[YungTrapLord]

Thanks for all the replies, they're really helping to inform my decision, any more opinions on Western/Pacific/USC/or Tuoro/KGI/Health Sciences? I don't ever seem to hear much about western

 

[steveysmith54]

Thanks for all the replies, they're really helping to inform my decision, any more opinions on Western/Pacific/USC/or Tuoro/KGI/Health Sciences? I don't ever seem to hear much about western

What do you want to hear? I went to western. We are one of the top schools in NAPLEX scores every year. School is 4th oldest pharm school in CA and celebrated our 20th year. I had rotations in LA, plenty of my friends did them in OC, etc. Some went to SD. About 20 students from our students went on to do residencies, I believe. Vast Majority of my classmates worked at least 8 hours per week. Felt like 1/4 of my class worked for Kaiser as interns. Block scheduling for years 2 and and 1/2 of year 3. If you have any questions, ask me.

School is pretty transparent. Any stats like employment rates, residency matches, etc you can find somewhere on the site. A lot of it is published in the school's magazine called, Rx Bounds. Which is accessible from their website.

 

[YungTrapLord]

What do you want to hear? I went to western. We are one of the top schools in NAPLEX scores every year. School is 4th oldest pharm school in CA and celebrated our 20th year. I had rotations in LA, plenty of my friends did them in OC, etc. Some went to SD. About 20 students from our students went on to do residencies, I believe. Vast Majority of my classmates worked at least 8 hours per week. Felt like 1/4 of my class worked for Kaiser as interns. Block scheduling for years 2 and and 1/2 of year 3. If you have any questions, ask me.

School is pretty transparent. Any stats like employment rates, residency matches, etc you can find somewhere on the site. A lot of it is published in the school's magazine called, Rx Bounds. Which is accessible from their website.

Hey man, how are Western's rotations? Do they offer anything in the industry? That's what I'm interested in doing

 

[steveysmith54]

Hey man, how are Western's rotations? Do they offer anything in the industry? That's what I'm interested in doing

We have rotations with Amgen in Thousand Oaks. Two classmates that I know of did rotations there. From what I heard, a fellowship is usually the precursor to a career in the industry. We had one classmate get into a top fellowship on the east coast, from my class. Another classmate went to work for Allergan right out of school. We may also have a rotation site there, as well. Most pharmacy schools emphasize Clinical Pharmacy and evidence based medicine, very little of the industry career was mentioned in my school. From what I heard from USC students, industry is acknowledged a lot more there. As far as Western, we are not a flashy school with a big name. However, we are solid school that gets the job done, with a well respected DO school, dental school, podiatry, PA, Vet school, and NP school. Going to western will not hurt your chances to get into anywhere. We had students get into managed care, amb care, hospital, fellowship, community residency, you name it. Plenty of grads hold positions as Hospital's Pharmacy directors, chain DM, independent, etc. This is why we have solid rotations, including the VA and Kaiser. Most of my rotations I was alongside USC students and sometimes UOP students. I felt I knew as much and sometimes more them, which is why I have no reservation when recommending Western. However, does USC and UCSF have even better rotations than WesternU? absolutely.

Sounds like you're still unsure about where to go. Here is my biased view of the 12 pharmacy schools in CA. After the first tier, i'd consider going based on location where you want to live.

Upper echelon/Elite
UCSF
USC
UCSD

Second Tier (in that order)
UOP
WesternU
Loma Linda
Touro

Third tier
CNCP

No Comment on the rest.

 

[confettiflyer]

Not sure how you're lumping UOP with Touro and like schools...Pacific is one of the original three and probably deserves higher billing than relative newcomer UCSD.

But this discussion makes for a great example why school rankings are subjective and useless for my st people.

(I have no UOP affiliation nor am I an alum, for disclosure sake).

 

[steveysmith54]

Not sure how you're lumping UOP with Touro and like schools...Pacific is one of the original three and probably deserves higher billing than relative newcomer UCSD.

But this discussion makes for a great example why school rankings are subjective and useless for my st people.

(I have no UOP affiliation nor am I an alum, for disclosure sake).

It's simple.
1. Tuition: ucsd is far cheaper (unless the extra year is taken into account) I believe in four year programs and allow students to have time to work.
2. Location: incomparable. People dread living in Stockton
3. higher Naplex passing rate and class size
4. Affiliation with a top 50 univ in the country

 

[Judgment Dragon]

My tier list for California Pharmacy Schools will be as follows:

S+
UCSF

S
USC
UOP
UCSD

A
Western U

B
Touro
Loma Linda

C
Keck Graduate Institute

D
Chapman
Marshall

E (for-profit diploma mills)
California Northstate
West Coast
California Health Sciences University

 

[YungTrapLord]

You all are so awesome! Thank you so much for all the input, really helping someone who has been distraught over this for the past few weeks

 

[YungTrapLord]

We have rotations with Amgen in Thousand Oaks. Two classmates that I know of did rotations there. From what I heard, a fellowship is usually the precursor to a career in the industry. We had one classmate get into a top fellowship on the east coast, from my class. Another classmate went to work for Allergan right out of school. We may also have a rotation site there, as well. Most pharmacy schools emphasize Clinical Pharmacy and evidence based medicine, very little of the industry career was mentioned in my school. From what I heard from USC students, industry is acknowledged a lot more there. As far as Western, we are not a flashy school with a big name. However, we are solid school that gets the job done, with a well respected DO school, dental school, podiatry, PA, Vet school, and NP school. Going to western will not hurt your chances to get into anywhere. We had students get into managed care, amb care, hospital, fellowship, community residency, you name it. Plenty of grads hold positions as Hospital's Pharmacy directors, chain DM, independent, etc. This is why we have solid rotations, including the VA and Kaiser. Most of my rotations I was alongside USC students and sometimes UOP students. I felt I knew as much and sometimes more them, which is why I have no reservation when recommending Western. However, does USC and UCSF have even better rotations than WesternU? absolutely.

Sounds like you're still unsure about where to go. Here is my biased view of the 12 pharmacy schools in CA. After the first tier, i'd consider going based on location where you want to live.

Upper echelon/Elite
UCSF
USC
UCSD

Second Tier (in that order)
UOP
WesternU
Loma Linda
Touro

Third tier
CNCP

No Comment on the rest.

Thanks for the break down, this is similar to what I was considering, UCSD UCSF were my #1, but I'm not sure if my GPA was up to par for them, Western and UOP were my next two.
I've considered USC for their brand name recognition, but I've heard a lot of negatives about their program. I've heard its facilities and curriculum are aging badly etc, and its coasting on mostly name.
Western seems to be my #1 as far as what I think I can get into, UOP is a close 2nd but again I've heard negative things about them having difficulty in placing people in rotations ( some people having to commute 2hrs each way for their sites) and quality of teachers, and the lack of being able to work while in school isn't very appealing. Plus the area
KGI is my third as I'm really interested in working in industry. I interned at a Kaiser outpatient, and I really have no interest in retail or outpatient pharmacy, so I'm hoping that whichever school I go to will provide a decent outlet for either inpatient/ambulatory pharmacy or industry connections
I've gotten into KGI so far, got an interview at Touro and UOP, and waiting for Western and USC to review my app, hoping to ear back soon

 

[steveysmith54]

Thanks for the break down, this is similar to what I was considering, UCSD UCSF were my #1, but I'm not sure if my GPA was up to par for them, Western and UOP were my next two.
I've considered USC for their brand name recognition, but I've heard a lot of negatives about their program. I've heard its facilities and curriculum are aging badly etc, and its coasting on mostly name.
Western seems to be my #1 as far as what I think I can get into, UOP is a close 2nd but again I've heard negative things about them having difficulty in placing people in rotations ( some people having to commute 2hrs each way for their sites) and quality of teachers, and the lack of being able to work while in school isn't very appealing. Plus the area
KGI is my third as I'm really interested in working in industry. I interned at a Kaiser outpatient, and I really have no interest in retail or outpatient pharmacy, so I'm hoping that whichever school I go to will provide a decent outlet for either inpatient/ambulatory pharmacy or industry connections
I've gotten into KGI so far, got an interview at Touro and UOP, and waiting for Western and USC to review my app, hoping to ear back soon

Given the chance, I don't think any of my classmates or I would choose Western over USC. USC is just in an another echelon of pharmacy schools and networking is everything in pharmacy. Odds are your fellowship/residency interviewers will be a USC grad. It's really like playing for Yankees. If you are going to pay the same tuition, you will be getting more value from USC.

 

[confettiflyer]

It's simple.
1. Tuition: ucsd is far cheaper (unless the extra year is taken into account) I believe in four year programs and allow students to have time to work.
2. Location: incomparable. People dread living in Stockton
3. higher Naplex passing rate and class size
4. Affiliation with a top 50 univ in the country

Hmm...can't argue there, still not sure I can back your rating, IMHO. This is mostly because I precept both Touro and UOP and a higher percentage of my UOP students excel or match to residency in spite of the difficulties working.

But my n = limited and my UCSF kids usually run circles ahead of everyone else.

 

[njac]

I can tell you that I personally have a bias against the 3 year programs. And there are enough people out there like me that it can be an issue.

Luckily in CA there are humptyninebazillion UoP grads, some working in administration, and doing some of the hiring.

I've worked with some great UoP grads. But if I were hiring a new grad, All else equal (including fit with the workplace), I would likely pick the student from the 4 year school.


But you're lucky - I'm not the one doing the hiring yet.

 

[steveysmith54]

l

Hmm...can't argue there, still not sure I can back your rating, IMHO. This is mostly because I precept both Touro and UOP and a higher percentage of my UOP students excel or match to residency in spite of the difficulties working.

But my n = limited and my UCSF kids usually run circles ahead of everyone else.

I think both are terrific schools. I have had nothing but good experiences with UOP students. I think that UCSD may have less recognition in the pharmacy community right now because it's newer and much smaller graduating classes, however that will change with time. The caliber of applicants and admission competitiveness at UCSD has already surpassed UOP. It's nothing against UOP, it's just hard to compete with La Jolla and the tradition of excellence at one of the top UC's.

 

[YungTrapLord]

You all have been very helpful, thank you so much. I guess as a final question, and this is mainly because of the vehement warnings I get from these forums as well as the pharmacists I'm working with at Kaiser, would you all still go into Pharmacy? I'm at a crossroads where I can either go into PA school or Pharmacy school, while I'm already rather invested in Pharmacy, the portrait I'm being painted of the profession is rather bleak. Especially with stuff like this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687123/

 

[confettiflyer]

I'm thinking this is boiling down to a maturity judgment call...I think I mentioned this in this thread or another thread, but Pacific students tend to be on the younger side (kind of like University of the Sciences (aka Philadelphia College of Pharmacy, aka USciences, aka PCP students).

If you get adequately trained at any of the "mid-tier CA" schools, the deal breaker could be life experience/maturity. Not that UOP students are outright less mature...but when you're evaluating someone for fit within company culture, that extra year could be significant.

As a UC alum, though, I'd probably push UCSF and UCSD first and second before recommending UOP, for all the reasons @steveysmith54 mentioned above in the previous post.

 

[Deja]

holy crap i never realized cali had this many pharm schools

 

[confettiflyer]

holy crap i never realized cali had this many pharm schools

So since we house ~12% of the US population, theoretically we should house 16 schools of pharmacy out of the 130 that existed in 2014 to maintain that proportion.

If you want to use 1987 numbers (72 schools), California should house 9 of those schools to stay in proportion.

 

[BidingMyTime]

KGI is my third as I'm really interested in working in industry. I interned at a Kaiser outpatient, and I really have no interest in retail or outpatient pharmacy, so I'm hoping that whichever school I go to will provide a decent outlet for either inpatient/ambulatory pharmacy or industry connections

75 - 90% of your class will enter hoping the same. Nothing wrong with having goals, but if working in retail isn't a viable back-up plan for you, you really shouldn't spend the money going to pharmacy school. Because the majority of pharmacists will end up working retail. Statistically, you will end up working retail (especially if your grades are less then staller, as you've hinted.)

 

[Judgment Dragon]

You all have been very helpful, thank you so much. I guess as a final question, and this is mainly because of the vehement warnings I get from these forums as well as the pharmacists I'm working with at Kaiser, would you all still go into Pharmacy? I'm at a crossroads where I can either go into PA school or Pharmacy school, while I'm already rather invested in Pharmacy, the portrait I'm being painted of the profession is rather bleak. Especially with stuff like this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687123/

What is your reasoning for not wanting to do retail pharmacy?

 

[YungTrapLord]

What is your reasoning for not wanting to do retail pharmacy?

I've done shadowing at a local retail community pharmacy, as well as an internship at a Kiaser outpatient pharmacy. Just didn't see much appeal, a lot of standing and typing on the computer checking prescriptions, calling insurance companies etc, and to top it off all the pharmacists absolutely hated any and all patient interactions (consultations etc), they made the interns do all the consults