perioperative management of AICD/PACER

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DrBrown

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I would like some opinion from the Cardiologists here on how to best manage: Pacemakers, AICDS, and Pacer/AICD combos. I am an Anesthesiologist and there appears to be no perfect answer. We are always concerned with electromagnetic intereference from the surgeons cautery altering the device and also concerned with any magnet placed on the device altering it as well. I have contacted various manufactures and most just place the responsibility for how to manage the device back on me! If you call the reps they will tell you over the phone "just put a magnet on it...it will be fine, no post op interrogation needed." But if you ask them to send you that in writing they won't do it, but will instead begrudgingly come in and interrogate the device. Can anyone give me some clear answers or point me to the right resources? I usually play it conservative and have the reps come in but it is extremely time consuming and is it even necessary? I welcome your perspective.

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I am just a fellow, not full fledged cardiologist, but it's my experience that it is generally the rep's responsibility to come in and deal with this, particularly in the case of ICD's. The companies that make these devices get paid a lot of money, and part of the deal is the reps are there to deal with the followup issues on the devices (along with the EP and general cardiologists and their offices). As far as your above post, keep in mind that all ICD's contain a pacemaker (so there are not separate categories of ICD and ICD with pacer, but every ICD has pacemaker functions built in). When you put the magnet on an ICD, that just turns off the defibrillator function of the ICD, which is what you want (so that the patient won't get defibrillated when the electrocautery is used and the ICD "sees", potentially, some artifact that it perceives as VT or VF). There is still a backup pacemaker function that will automatically be there when the magnet is put on...this usually is a backup rate of 70, I believe (you can definitely ask the device reps this, and they will know). When you take the magnet off after surgery, the ICD function will be back "on". As far as I know, there's not really an indication for either pacemakers or ICD's to need to be interrogated routinely after every surgery. The patients generally go to clinic every 3 months or so and have the thing interrogated and the battery is checked.

At my hospital, I know that the device reps are there daily around the OR area and they deal with this stuff. Maybe your hospital is just really small and they can't have someone be over there? Or your rep just isn't very good? It seems like they should have in-service type things set up periodically for the anesthesiologists and possibly the nurses working in the OR and PACU areas, etc.
 
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At one of our hospitals it is hospital policy for the device to be turned off by either the rep or the cards fellow. At the another hospital it's OK to use the magnet. I think it's just up to the admin and whatever bylaws they come up with.

-The Trifling Jester
 
At our hospital, the cardiology fellows deal with the perioperative management of device. Its not the most enjoyable part. Its actually scut work. Here is what we do.

1. ICD getting surgery: turn ICD function off, no need to change pacer function if patient is not pacer dependant. Frankly speaking, if something is being done in the legs, no need to even turn the ICD function off but anesthesia people always make us do it. Sometimes, I feel why dont they do it themselves.

2. Timing of device settings change: Sometimes we get called at 6:00 am that the patient is going to OR in next 15 minutes for an elective surgery and they want us in stat to turn the device off. The device does not need to be turned off 15 minutes prior to surgery. It can be turned off a day prior (and should be) and patient should be kept on telemetry (as per our attending who has authored guidelines on the same subject). Bottomline: An elective hernia repair should not be a cardiology fellow's emergency!

3. If surgery finished at 10pm, the device does not need to be turned on immediately in the next 15 minutes by the cardiology fellow, again keep on telemetry and we will turn it on tomorrow.
 
Thanks


Punk:

Your approach would require two nights and three days in the hospital for an outpatient elective surgery
 
This question is perennial and without consistent response.

I am an EP attending who is within a few years of fellowship.

I few points:

1.) The ASA, HR Society and device manufacturers all recommendations and none of them agree.

2.) the danger of electrocautery is twofold: A) detection leading to innapropriate ICD therapy. b) detection leading to inhibition of ventricular pacing in someone who is pacer dependant.

2.) The type of electrosurgery (cautery) being used is relevant. If it is bipolar, then there is really very little chance of either of the above occuring (you would need to be essentially right at the right ventricular lead tip. If it is unipolar (the more common type) then a good rule of thumb is that if you are six inches away from the RV lead tip (which is where the EMI would be detected by he device) you are probably ok and there is little chance of detecting electrocautery. This cataract surgery, extremity surgery, abdominal surgery (unless at the diaphragm level) etc would have really very very low chance of being near the RV lead tip.

3.) All modern pacemakers have noise detection algorithms which briefly switch pacing modes to VOO and thus eliminate chances of inhibition of ventricular pacing.

4.) Placing a magnent on an ICD will temporarily disable tachycardia detection (and permanently do so in a few older Guidant devices of which there are very few around still in breathing patients). Thus as soon as the magnet has been removed, the ICD is immediately "on." Placing a magnet on any ICD does NOTHING to the pacing mode of the ICD. To change the pacing mode of an ICD you need a programmer. In

5.) Placing a magnet on a PPM changes the pacing mode to asynchronous only for the duration that the magnet is on the PPM. (understand that when you say "pacemaker" you are really saying "this is not an ICD" { all ICDs are also capable of pacing }).

6.) The major device companies recommend that magnets be placed on ICDs to "turn them off for surgery" because the chance of sending the patient home with a magnet taped to their chest is low. This is in contrast to the risk of a patient being sent home with their ICD programmed "off." accidentally. This really does happen, I have seen it.

7.) To take the point of number six a little further, when you the physician call and ask that a company rep come and turn off a device, YOU are writing an order medico-legally speaking. The device rep documents your name in the chart. If that patient goes home with the ICD programmed off (because you forgot to ask the company rep to come back and program it back on { or for any other reason } you the physician are medico-legally responsible. This is regardless of whether you are a surgeon, anesthesiologist or if really know what you are doing or not. Each time you call the rep, you are legally responsible for what he or she does with the device. They cannot alter programming without a physicians order. This has been tested in the courts. The magnet method is safer.

Here is one method of dealing with this issue on the whole:

THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE.

Where on the body are you doing surgery? If you are more than six inches from the heart, do not touch the device.

If you are within six inches of the device in the chest or upper abdomen, then

1) Find out if the patient is pacemaker dependent.
2) Find out if the device is an ICD.
3) Find out who made the device (ie Medtronic, St. Jude, etc)

If they are pacemaker dependent, use a programmer to change the pacing mode to asynchronous. A magnet taped over the device is likely to be in the way of the sterile field. Realize that if it is a pacemaker, even this you probably don't need to do because pacemakers have EMI noise reversion modes that are designed to do this for you when they see EMI from cautery. Also realize that even if this fails, a couple (2 or 3) of seconds of asystole never hurt anyone (how long is the surgeon really using the bovie un-interrupted?!?).

If the device is an ICD you will want to turn off the ICD function (called "tachycardia detection") with a programmer (again a magnet will be in the surgical field.) Don't forget to turn it back on however.

_____________

one last thing... It makes all the sense in the world to me that anesthesiologists would take this bull by the horns and take ownership of this issue. They are perioperative medicine experts and it is clear to me that the most efficient means of handling these issues is for them to do it themselves (much has been the case with intraoperative TEE). Yes this would require some education but it really isnt all that complicated (much less so than intraoperative TEE).
 
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