Peta and my thoughts...

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EctopicFetus said:
I assume Peta folks dont wear leather shoes.. should make for a good time in the hospitals..

Many shoes are made from man made materials and synthetic leather nowadays, anyway. If you take a look at many shoes, you will see that there are many many choices that are actually synthetic leather.

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EctopicFetus said:
Honestly a little reading comprehension is required. I never said anything about your common sense. I am simply saying that the nutty PETA people are idiots. Say what you will about republicans or dems it doesnt matter to me.

I made no mention of you just that you pointed out that some of the PETA folks are "literally geniuses" and all I am saying is that doesnt add much to their credibility as it says nothing of their lack of common sense etc..

I assumed that since you were referring to "Peta folks" and I am an animal rights person, that you would assume the same about me. And I find many Peta people to have plenty of common sense. I don't see how being active in animal rights takes away from common sense. 😕
 
I remember taking Environmental Ethics as an undergrad and the animal rights readings I had were really difficult. The philosophy involved was elegant but super advanced; I ended up looking a bunch of stuff up in a intro to philosophy textbook. I wouldn't have stood a chance debating them! Definitely not stupid or merely foaming-at-the-mouth radicals.

Vegan Shoes
I usually just go barefoot when out hugging trees, but these will work great for rotations ... (the vegan Uggs crack me up!)

(dnw - who is your avatar? I feel like it's someone I should know ...)
 
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Is it Truman Capote?

I wondered the same thing myself.

-Mike
 
Is letting that dog smoke a cigar liberating it or is it considered animal cruelty? 😉
 
We did some neurosci research in our labs using rats. We would implant these remotely controled drug pumps into rats, tracers followed by euthanizing agent. All you had to do was pulse the room with infrared light and the rats were toast. I personally had no problem doing it, although the ripping off the head, cryo freezing hte brain, and slicing it thing was kinda weird the first time. However, it was funny how I would talk about killing the rats, but saying "killing" was like a taboo. You had to say "euthanize". I said it anyway, why sugarcoat it.

Their creepiest thing though is when I went to the vivarium where all the animals are stored, kinda like animal prison. You could hear the monkey's, dogs, birds, etc. all going crazy.

As a side note, at what point does an organism become too stupid to be able to kill it for PETA? Technically seaweed is fungi, so vegans can eat it. What about sponges or sea urchins? They're animals. How come peta isn't going to santa barbara to protest sea urchin harvesting? Arthropods? It seems like they only care about vertabrates, especially the ones that are cute and cudly.
 
prana_md said:
Is letting that dog smoke a cigar liberating it or is it considered animal cruelty? 😉

What dog?

I just need a hair cut.

-Mike
 
dnw826 said:
I believe that right now there is nothing we can do to stop what is considered necessary testing until our technology meets with our consciences. I try to avoid anything that I know is tested on animals, but noone is perfect. It's at least doing something by trying to reduce the amount of things that I use and buy that are tested on animals or support animal cruelty and death. Even one less death or life of misery is a step in the right direction.

I suppose going on principle you should avoid every vaccine ever tested or developed in an animal, and every vaccine or lifesaving drug that may be developed in the future using animals? All those poor rabbits (or was it dogs) that died in the development of the first rabies vaccine.. are you telling me you wouldnt get a rabies vaccine if you got bitten by a rabid dog because the origin of the vaccine was in animal testing?
 
Yesterday I ate pepperoni, then some shrimp and beer can chicken!! Yummy!!

Meat is my friend!
 
dnw826 said:
I believe that right now there is nothing we can do to stop what is considered necessary testing until our technology meets with our consciences. I try to avoid anything that I know is tested on animals, but noone is perfect. It's at least doing something by trying to reduce the amount of things that I use and buy that are tested on animals or support animal cruelty and death. Even one less death or life of misery is a step in the right direction.

I admire your idealism and the fact that you practice what you preach. However, I think some people posting less than flattering things about PETA are pointing to actions taken that make no sense at all. For instance, there is a mink farm near my hometown. It was raided one night by members professing to be PETA. All of the 3,000+ mink were set free by these well meaning do-gooders. As a result, FBI investigators found that over 200 mink were trampled by the PETA 'liberators' and the vast majority of the mink that got away died within days (cold weather, lack of food, predators etc). There are too many instances where zealous PETA members care more for the message than the animals they profess to protect.
 
prana_md said:
I remember taking Environmental Ethics as an undergrad and the animal rights readings I had were really difficult. The philosophy involved was elegant but super advanced; I ended up looking a bunch of stuff up in a intro to philosophy textbook. I wouldn't have stood a chance debating them! Definitely not stupid or merely foaming-at-the-mouth radicals.

Vegan Shoes
I usually just go barefoot when out hugging trees, but these will work great for rotations ... (the vegan Uggs crack me up!)

(dnw - who is your avatar? I feel like it's someone I should know ...)

It's Aldous Huxley, of course! Okay, I'm sure that it's not obvious to 99% of people, but he rocks.

And my environmental politics class was killer, but very difficult. There are many tough concepts involved.
 
exmike said:
I suppose going on principle you should avoid every vaccine ever tested or developed in an animal, and every vaccine or lifesaving drug that may be developed in the future using animals? All those poor rabbits (or was it dogs) that died in the development of the first rabies vaccine.. are you telling me you wouldnt get a rabies vaccine if you got bitten by a rabid dog because the origin of the vaccine was in animal testing?

Did you even read my post? Reread it to freshen up on my thoughts. And I do try to avoid vaccines wherever possible. The chickenpox vaccine, IMHO is a load of crap especially.
 
pmtdenna said:
I admire your idealism and the fact that you practice what you preach. However, I think some people posting less than flattering things about PETA are pointing to actions taken that make no sense at all. For instance, there is a mink farm near my hometown. It was raided one night by members professing to be PETA. All of the 3,000+ mink were set free by these well meaning do-gooders. As a result, FBI investigators found that over 200 mink were trampled by the PETA 'liberators' and the vast majority of the mink that got away died within days (cold weather, lack of food, predators etc). There are too many instances where zealous PETA members care more for the message than the animals they profess to protect.

I agree. That is ridiculous. And those Peta members are obviously lunatics. In the same way I think that invading a foreign country to save it's people who don't want us there and then killing them is stupid. And I do support many things Peta does, but those actions are criminal to me.
 
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P E T A = S T U P I D

Yummy yummy meat!
 
dnw826 said:
Did you even read my post? Reread it to freshen up on my thoughts. And I do try to avoid vaccines wherever possible. The chickenpox vaccine, IMHO is a load of crap especially.

interesting. so when the avian flu pandemic starts, i better not see you reach for that syringe. Moreover, you're willing to let your child have the minute (but poossible) risk of disfiguring late onset zoster infection rather than immunize him/her? or possibly risk him/her to zoster encephalitis? People that dont vaccinate shouldnt be allowed to have children.
 
pmtdenna said:
I admire your idealism and the fact that you practice what you preach. However, I think some people posting less than flattering things about PETA are pointing to actions taken that make no sense at all. For instance, there is a mink farm near my hometown. It was raided one night by members professing to be PETA. All of the 3,000+ mink were set free by these well meaning do-gooders. As a result, FBI investigators found that over 200 mink were trampled by the PETA 'liberators' and the vast majority of the mink that got away died within days (cold weather, lack of food, predators etc). There are too many instances where zealous PETA members care more for the message than the animals they profess to protect.


Practice what you preach? More like practicing whichever parts he likes and not the others.

You try to stay away from the chickenpox vaccine? Congrats, probably because you already had it. What about if a vaccine for HIV/AIDS comes out? Better stay away from that.

Better yet, what happens if someone drops a smart bomb containing cyanide or anthrax on your town? Then what? Those antedotes have been tested on animals. I know, because I did the testing.
 
hey, I don't want this to devolve into a vaccination debate. this is about animals, specifically my new Adopt-a-Mink program

Mink.jpg


(Guess they're not vegetarian ...)
 
dnw826 said:
I agree. That is ridiculous. And those Peta members are obviously lunatics. In the same way I think that invading a foreign country to save it's people who don't want us there and then killing them is stupid. And I do support many things Peta does, but those actions are criminal to me.

Ok, what does one have to do with another? I'm assuming you are speaking of Iraq. Lose the anti-war diatribe. It hurts your argument and makes you look foolish. 🙄
 
exmike said:
interesting. so when the avian flu pandemic starts, i better not see you reach for that syringe. Moreover, you're willing to let your child have the minute (but poossible) risk of disfiguring late onset zoster infection rather than immunize him/her? or possibly risk him/her to zoster encephalitis? People that dont vaccinate shouldnt be allowed to have children.

Who's to judge who should and shouldn't have children? And what are the odds of that one happening? I am not overzealous about world plagues and pandemics. And most people who get chicken pox are not disfigured or freaks. In fact, the chicken pox vax that I have seen people get usually gives them the pox. So what's the freaking point?
 
Buckeye(OH) said:
Practice what you preach? More like practicing whichever parts he likes and not the others.

You try to stay away from the chickenpox vaccine? Congrats, probably because you already had it. What about if a vaccine for HIV/AIDS comes out? Better stay away from that.

Better yet, what happens if someone drops a smart bomb containing cyanide or anthrax on your town? Then what? Those antedotes have been tested on animals. I know, because I did the testing.

That's funny, dude. Someone's a bit paranoid, eh? And yes, I had the chicken pox vaccine 7 times thanks to a worthless doctor. AFTER I had the pox. So maybe I'm a bit weary of the stupid vaccination thing.

And I think that we have other worries than vaccinations if it gets to the point where people are dropping cyanide and anthrax on my town. 🙄
 
prana_md said:
hey, I don't want this to devolve into a vaccination debate. this is about animals, specifically my new Adopt-a-Mink program

Mink.jpg


(Guess they're not vegetarian ...)

Snow leopards are my favorite. I'd adopt one, but I think the weather is too warm and, well, I fear for my cat's safety. And they sure the heck aren't close to vegetarians.
 
pmtdenna said:
Ok, what does one have to do with another? I'm assuming you are speaking of Iraq. Lose the anti-war diatribe. It hurts your argument and makes you look foolish. 🙄

So now you're going after me about the war thing? How'd you know I was speaking about Iraq and not somewhere like Vietnam? Because there are plenty of non-Iraq cases we can bring up. And you totally missed my point.
 
dnw826 said:
That's funny, dude. Someone's a bit paranoid, eh? And yes, I had the chicken pox vaccine 7 times thanks to a worthless doctor. AFTER I had the pox. So maybe I'm a bit weary of the stupid vaccination thing.

And I think that we have other worries than vaccinations if it gets to the point where people are dropping cyanide and anthrax on my town. 🙄


Actually, no, we don't have more important things to worry about. If the private sector pharmaceutical industry felt it was necessary to evaluate a compound for 3million$ then its obviously a real world threat. Private sectors don't develop things for the good of the community unless there exists a profit margin.

What, because im educated about whats actually going on in the drug development pipeline Im paranoid? Please.

Don't try to change the subject away from the fact that you are a PETA supporter when you feel like it, but you would certainly take a vaccine developed in animals if you so required it.

If you deny that, then you are just flat out stupid.
 
prana_md said:
...The philosophy involved was elegant but super advanced...


Just an aside, most philosophy is bull**** even though people think it's pretty cool or meaningful until they get a life.

No point. Just that you can justify anything on either side of the issue by philosophy. I'd just rather eat the animals. And I don't care if they are raised in crates or how they are killed.

Except for dogs, of course. Cultures that eat dogs are barbaric by default. Dude, dogs and man are so close that eating one, except in an "Alive" Situation, is like cannibalism.
 
Panda Bear said:
Except for dogs, of course. Cultures that eat dogs are barbaric by default. Dude, dogs and man are so close that eating one, except in an "Alive" Situation, is like cannibalism.

This is hilarious. I just came from a thread with the user Brickhouse. You definitely have to see his/her avatar.
 
Panda Bear said:
Except for dogs, of course. Cultures that eat dogs are barbaric by default. Dude, dogs and man are so close that eating one, except in an "Alive" Situation, is like cannibalism.

You gotta check out Brickhouse's avatar!
 
pmtdenna said:
I admire your idealism and the fact that you practice what you preach. However, I think some people posting less than flattering things about PETA are pointing to actions taken that make no sense at all. For instance, there is a mink farm near my hometown. It was raided one night by members professing to be PETA. All of the 3,000+ mink were set free by these well meaning do-gooders. As a result, FBI investigators found that over 200 mink were trampled by the PETA 'liberators' and the vast majority of the mink that got away died within days (cold weather, lack of food, predators etc). There are too many instances where zealous PETA members care more for the message than the animals they profess to protect.

I agree. Just read an article on CNN.com, dated June 8th. Some breeder sold a 4 wk old chihuahua to a lady...the dog dies...then the buyer goes back to beat the breeder on the head with the dead chihuahua... (yeah, pretty interesting, eh?) I'd rather PETA focus on lunatics like these guys rather than animal testing for the better of mankind...
 
Anybody see "28 Days Later"? I know its a really far-fetched work of horror movie fiction, but I laughed out loud when the monkey bit off the face of the animal rights terrorist who was just trying to free him. OK, so the stuff that came after that wasn't funny and I WAS the only person in the theater to laugh, but I thought the irony was delicious.
 
dnw826 said:
So now you're going after me about the war thing? How'd you know I was speaking about Iraq and not somewhere like Vietnam? Because there are plenty of non-Iraq cases we can bring up. And you totally missed my point.

Ok, what is your point?! Are you comparing the actions of the US military with that of PETA nutjobs?!!!!! If so, you are not only misinformed but weak and servile to a whacked out agenda. +pissed+
 
pmtdenna said:
Ok, what is your point?! Are you comparing the actions of the US military with that of PETA nutjobs?!!!!! If so, you are not only misinformed but weak and servile to a whacked out agenda.

animals!
animals!
we're talking about animals here!
(or did you just post that to get the wire tap off your phone?) :laugh:
 
dnw826 said:
Many shoes are made from man made materials and synthetic leather nowadays, anyway.
Synthetic and man made... i.e. plastic... which is a petroleum product... which is a non-renewable resource... whose production ruins entire ecosystems *including* all the animals in them. How can that *possibly* be preferable to making shoes out of leather? The kind of animal rights arguments I like least are the woefully short-sighted ones.

Which makes me wonder... Who do y'all think would win in a fight, PETA or Greenpeace?
 
As a pre-veterinary student there is continuously the battle between animals welfare Vs. Animal Rights:

Animal Rights
To end all human "exploitation" of animals - this includes, but is not limited to, raising and slaughtering of livestock for human or animal consumption, eating meat, hunting, using animals for any medical or veterinary research, zoos (regardless of how well managed), circuses, rodeos, horseshows, dog shows, animals performing in TV commercials, shows or movies (regardless of how well treated any of the above are), guide-dogs for the blind, police dogs, search & rescue dogs, and the practice of owning pets.

Animal Welfare
To prevent suffering and cruelty to animals. And to provide care and good homes for pets in need. This often includes, but is not limited to, the funding and running of animal shelters (to provide a sanctuary for abandoned, abused, homeless, or unwanted pets, and to place them in good homes where possible, provide painless euthanasia for those that cannot be adopted, and to educate the public about the need for spaying/neutering their pets to prevent more surplus animals ending up in shelters), enforcement of anti-cruelty statutes (where their authority permits),initiating, lobbying for, and monitoring enforcement of legislation to ensure more humane standards of care for livestock, laboratory animals, performing animals, and pets.

I have no problem with animal testing, livestock farming, or euthanizing healthy animals - my main concern is how well they are treated when they are alive.
 
kate_g said:
Synthetic and man made... i.e. plastic... which is a petroleum product... which is a non-renewable resource... whose production ruins entire ecosystems *including* all the animals in them. How can that *possibly* be preferable to making shoes out of leather? The kind of animal rights arguments I like least are the woefully short-sighted ones.

Which makes me wonder... Who do y'all think would win in a fight, PETA or Greenpeace?
Exactly!

And petroleum comes from of decay of tiny marine animals, so it is therefore an animal product!!

Wait, so I guess its okay to use animal products, as long as it is long enough ago right?
 
I have to LMAO at those PETA idiots. They have absolutely no clue about how nature really works.

See there is this thing called the food chain consisting of predators and prey. Yeah, go save that wolf but I don't want to hear about it when it tries to kill you LOL.

PETA hates me and my entire life. I have grew up farming, hunting and fishing. Here's a hint on how a real farm works. You don't get paid for unhealthy animals, they can't go through the Sale Barn plus you get paid based on WEIGHT. If you have a dairy farm, sick cows don't give enough milk to keep you from starving, and the food has to be of good enough quality so as not to spoil the milk with flavors (really gotta watch wild onions in the spring pasture). Farmers take care of their animals if not for the humane reasons just simply because healthier animals produce better and it is financially rewarding for them to do so.

All you have to know about PETA to know how crazy they are as an organization is what the themselves say and do. I think it was Ingred Newkirk that said "a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy", stating that killing a rat is the same as killing a child.

These idiots went around in Virginia putting antifreeze on deer that were hanging for butchering in hopes of killing the "hunters" and their families.

Oh yeah, as you can see from my website I don't spay and neuter my dogs either. I raise working dogs, you can't get them out of the shelter. They are a great assett to me and to get the quality I want I raise my own. Breeders are not a problem with the "overpopulation" of pets (a breeder and a puppy mill are two different things).

I don't believe in anything suffering needlessly, but animals are not equal to humans. I love my dogs, but chosing between animals or children is a nobrainer.
 
So you probably break about even ... you love your dogs and you shoot deer. I can't say I totally get it, but I'm trying to be open minded.
 
prana_md said:
So you probably break about even ... you love your dogs and you shoot deer. I can't say I totally get it, but I'm trying to be open minded.

It's simple, deer are FOOD. I don't have a problem killing my own food.

The point was animals are not humans, they are not on the same level as humans, and even though I love my dogs they are still not human.

I'm not a deer hunter, I am a coonhunter. I used to deerhunt but since time is rationed now I would rather coon hunt (that's what my working dogs are for) and my dad and brother keep me supplied with enough venison to satisfy my needs.
 
prana_md said:
So you probably break about even ... you love your dogs and you shoot deer. I can't say I totally get it, but I'm trying to be open minded.

Um. Do you keep deer as pets?

No.

Would you cry if I shot a raccoon?

He was eating my trash. He deserved it. He probably had rabies, anyway.
 
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